Re: [GNC] Be careful with `petty cash'
On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 05:54:26PM -0400, Michael or Penny Novack wrote: > > But unwise to trust honor too far. My normal practice is every few hours to > remove some amount of currency leaving just enough for change and replacing > what I took out with a signed, dated, time stamped slip for what I have > removed. Those included with the (witnessed) currency count. > If only! We simply don't have that sort of level of income, at any time or place. Our major fund-raising event are mostly events run in the village hall where people have bought tickets and, anyway, the money is handled by the organisers (not me). The only cash I get to see is Sunday collections and the contents of the offertory box. -- Chris Green ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Be careful with `petty cash'
Yes, forgot about that, thanks. I've used similar procedures. Regards, Adrien On 9/10/20 4:54 PM, Michael or Penny Novack wrote: On 9/10/2020 5:29 PM, Adrien Monteleone wrote: I'm not sure what you are referencing by 'paying-in slip'. POSSIBLY something else. For example, there is an annual event at which a "teacup auction" takes place. There is both cash and checks placed in the can when people buy tickets, sometimes somebody there, but usually honor system. But unwise to trust honor too far. My normal practice is every few hours to remove some amount of currency leaving just enough for change and replacing what I took out with a signed, dated, time stamped slip for what I have removed. Those included with the (witnessed) currency count. I would then make good those slips (and remaining currency) with a check. It might be days till whoever was Treasurer back home and could make a deposit. Not everybody attending is even from the same country, let alone state. But I'd be home 3 hours after the event ended so less a nuisance for me to hold currency. The point is, I could see somebody doing the same thing with an unguarded collection box, replacing currency with a slip. Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Be careful with `petty cash'
Yep, sorry. It started as a post expounding on yours, but then morphed after I reviewed it before posting. Apologies for any confusion. Regards, Adrien On 9/10/20 4:56 PM, Michael Hendry wrote: Hi, Adrien. This appears to be a response to my last comment but I think it was intended for Chris Green, as you and I appear to be in agreement in wanting to mirror what actually happened. UK banks supply “Bank Giro Credit” books, sometimes free-standing, sometimes forming a section at the back of a cheque book. There is a tear-off slip for the details of the deposit and a counterfoil - both identically serial-numbered - and the bank tears of the clip then stamps and returns the counterfoil as a receipt. For paying-in slip read Bank Giro Credit slip - or deposit slip as you describe it. Michael ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Be careful with `petty cash'
> On 10 Sep 2020, at 22:29, Adrien Monteleone > wrote: > > I'm not sure what you are referencing by 'paying-in slip'. > > I always try to model the real world events with my transactions, so receipts > of cash would be recorded for the date they actually happened: > > Dr. Undeposited Funds > Cr. Income:whatever (collection, offertory box, etc.) > > Then when the deposit is made as likely an aggregate of several revenue > sources and even days, I'd record: > > Dr. Bank > Cr. Undeposited Funds > > If by 'paying-in slip' you mean 'deposit slip' or transaction # from the > bank, you'd use that on the actual deposit transaction. > > If you issue some sort of receipt or the money is collected with some sort of > document number, use that number for recording the actual collection > transaction. > > It is also possible, we may be talking past each other about the same thing. > > > Regards, > Adrien Hi, Adrien. This appears to be a response to my last comment but I think it was intended for Chris Green, as you and I appear to be in agreement in wanting to mirror what actually happened. UK banks supply “Bank Giro Credit” books, sometimes free-standing, sometimes forming a section at the back of a cheque book. There is a tear-off slip for the details of the deposit and a counterfoil - both identically serial-numbered - and the bank tears of the clip then stamps and returns the counterfoil as a receipt. For paying-in slip read Bank Giro Credit slip - or deposit slip as you describe it. Michael > > On 9/10/20 4:34 AM, Michael Hendry wrote: >>> On 10 Sep 2020, at 09:52, Chris Green wrote: >>> >>> I think the best approach is either:- >>> >>>1 - Record the amounts in their different categories as required, >>>e.g. 'collection' or 'offertory box' and simply record the same >>>paying-in slip number against both transactions. >>> >>>2 - Have, as you suggest, an intermediate "Undeposited Funds asset >>>account" where cash is recorded as it's collected and then another >>>transaction records when it's paid into the bank. >>> >>> Given the very small PCC I'm managing I think 1 above will be fine. I >>> record the date of the collection in the Description and the >>> transaction date is the date that the cash gets credited to the bank >>> account. >> I prefer 2 because the act of paying-in is a transaction distinct from the >> receipt of the cash, and may include cash received on several different >> dates. As well as being an accurate representation of what happened, it >> eases trouble-shooting when (e.g.) you can’t reconcile the bank account. > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Be careful with `petty cash'
On 9/10/2020 5:29 PM, Adrien Monteleone wrote: I'm not sure what you are referencing by 'paying-in slip'. POSSIBLY something else. For example, there is an annual event at which a "teacup auction" takes place. There is both cash and checks placed in the can when people buy tickets, sometimes somebody there, but usually honor system. But unwise to trust honor too far. My normal practice is every few hours to remove some amount of currency leaving just enough for change and replacing what I took out with a signed, dated, time stamped slip for what I have removed. Those included with the (witnessed) currency count. I would then make good those slips (and remaining currency) with a check. It might be days till whoever was Treasurer back home and could make a deposit. Not everybody attending is even from the same country, let alone state. But I'd be home 3 hours after the event ended so less a nuisance for me to hold currency. The point is, I could see somebody doing the same thing with an unguarded collection box, replacing currency with a slip. Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Be careful with `petty cash'
I'm not sure what you are referencing by 'paying-in slip'. I always try to model the real world events with my transactions, so receipts of cash would be recorded for the date they actually happened: Dr. Undeposited Funds Cr. Income:whatever (collection, offertory box, etc.) Then when the deposit is made as likely an aggregate of several revenue sources and even days, I'd record: Dr. Bank Cr. Undeposited Funds If by 'paying-in slip' you mean 'deposit slip' or transaction # from the bank, you'd use that on the actual deposit transaction. If you issue some sort of receipt or the money is collected with some sort of document number, use that number for recording the actual collection transaction. It is also possible, we may be talking past each other about the same thing. Regards, Adrien On 9/10/20 4:34 AM, Michael Hendry wrote: On 10 Sep 2020, at 09:52, Chris Green wrote: I think the best approach is either:- 1 - Record the amounts in their different categories as required, e.g. 'collection' or 'offertory box' and simply record the same paying-in slip number against both transactions. 2 - Have, as you suggest, an intermediate "Undeposited Funds asset account" where cash is recorded as it's collected and then another transaction records when it's paid into the bank. Given the very small PCC I'm managing I think 1 above will be fine. I record the date of the collection in the Description and the transaction date is the date that the cash gets credited to the bank account. I prefer 2 because the act of paying-in is a transaction distinct from the receipt of the cash, and may include cash received on several different dates. As well as being an accurate representation of what happened, it eases trouble-shooting when (e.g.) you can’t reconcile the bank account. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Be careful with `petty cash'
I think the best approach is either:- 1 - Record the amounts in their different categories as required, e.g. 'collection' or 'offertory box' and simply record the same paying-in slip number against both transactions. 2 - Have, as you suggest, an intermediate "Undeposited Funds asset account" where cash is recorded as it's collected and then another transaction records when it's paid into the bank. Given the very small PCC I'm managing I think 1 above will be fine. I record the date of the collection in the Description and the transaction date is the date that the cash gets credited to the bank account. Either will work, but in terms of gnucash effort you might find #1 easier. Especially so if bank deposits are far enough apart that might contain several "collection" and "offertory box" box entries. Especially if those might be done separately as simple, unsplit transactions. Otherwise you deposti transaction will be a large "split" transaction. Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Be careful with `petty cash'
> On 10 Sep 2020, at 09:52, Chris Green wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 09, 2020 at 05:42:05PM +0100, Michael Hendry wrote: >> >> This probably won’t be an issue for Chris Green, who would be better served >> by an Undeposited Funds asset account. >> > Yes, I think you're right. We don't have any 'petty cash' in any of > the normal senses. We do have quite a bit of cash of course as that's > what comprises most of our collections. However we never pay expenses > in cash, it's always by cheque even for quite small amounts. > > I think the best approach is either:- > >1 - Record the amounts in their different categories as required, >e.g. 'collection' or 'offertory box' and simply record the same >paying-in slip number against both transactions. > >2 - Have, as you suggest, an intermediate "Undeposited Funds asset >account" where cash is recorded as it's collected and then another >transaction records when it's paid into the bank. > > Given the very small PCC I'm managing I think 1 above will be fine. I > record the date of the collection in the Description and the > transaction date is the date that the cash gets credited to the bank > account. I prefer 2 because the act of paying-in is a transaction distinct from the receipt of the cash, and may include cash received on several different dates. As well as being an accurate representation of what happened, it eases trouble-shooting when (e.g.) you can’t reconcile the bank account. Regards, Michael ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Be careful with `petty cash'
On Wed, Sep 09, 2020 at 05:42:05PM +0100, Michael Hendry wrote: > > This probably won’t be an issue for Chris Green, who would be better served > by an Undeposited Funds asset account. > Yes, I think you're right. We don't have any 'petty cash' in any of the normal senses. We do have quite a bit of cash of course as that's what comprises most of our collections. However we never pay expenses in cash, it's always by cheque even for quite small amounts. I think the best approach is either:- 1 - Record the amounts in their different categories as required, e.g. 'collection' or 'offertory box' and simply record the same paying-in slip number against both transactions. 2 - Have, as you suggest, an intermediate "Undeposited Funds asset account" where cash is recorded as it's collected and then another transaction records when it's paid into the bank. Given the very small PCC I'm managing I think 1 above will be fine. I record the date of the collection in the Description and the transaction date is the date that the cash gets credited to the bank account. -- Chris Green ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Be careful with `petty cash'
> On 9 Sep 2020, at 15:25, Michael or Penny Novack > wrote: > > On 9/8/2020 11:32 PM, Adrien Monteleone wrote: >> I've seen suggestions in accounting texts (and use myself) an account called >> 'Undeposited Funds' as a Current Asset. Checks and currency destined to the >> bank (but not there yet) are recorded here when received. >> >> Regards, >> Adrien > > Yes, the term "petty cash" has traditionally had a different meaning. In a > very small business, might actually be currency but in a large one likely its > own bank account. And a subsidiary set of books. The idea was to reduce the > load on the treasurer/chief accountant and not clutter the main books with > trivial detail. > > In the petty cash books would be each transaction, each box of pencils, box > of reams of paper, flowers for the boss's reception room, etc. Then say once > a month the petty cash account would be "refreshed" with the total spent and > each category of expense closed to the main books. Thus the parent "office > supplies", "postage", etc. and not each box of pencils or roll of stamps. > > Michael D Novack In my past life as an NHS GP, most of our income came from our NHS contracts, but we received some income directly from patients for non-NHS work such as foreign travel immunisation, certificates and employment-related examinations (e.g. for heavy goods vehicle drivers). We recorded this in a petty-cash book and a cheques-received book. Drawings from petty cash for sundries and refreshments seldom exceeded the contents of the cash box, which was being topped up by cash income with the excess being periodically paid into the bank along with incoming cheques. Our accountant never complained about this way of working, so I assumed it was acceptable. In the context of a small Rotary Club, cash income is received at community events and there rarely a need for cash expenditure on the day. Occasionally, though, someone has to nip out for supplies part of the way through an event, and it’s convenient to be able to deal with that in cash on the day. This probably won’t be an issue for Chris Green, who would be better served by an Undeposited Funds asset account. Regards, Michael Hendry ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Be careful with `petty cash'
On 9/8/2020 11:32 PM, Adrien Monteleone wrote: I've seen suggestions in accounting texts (and use myself) an account called 'Undeposited Funds' as a Current Asset. Checks and currency destined to the bank (but not there yet) are recorded here when received. Regards, Adrien Yes, the term "petty cash" has traditionally had a different meaning. In a very small business, might actually be currency but in a large one likely its own bank account. And a subsidiary set of books. The idea was to reduce the load on the treasurer/chief accountant and not clutter the main books with trivial detail. In the petty cash books would be each transaction, each box of pencils, box of reams of paper, flowers for the boss's reception room, etc. Then say once a month the petty cash account would be "refreshed" with the total spent and each category of expense closed to the main books. Thus the parent "office supplies", "postage", etc. and not each box of pencils or roll of stamps. Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Be careful with `petty cash' (was: 'sub-transactions')
I've seen suggestions in accounting texts (and use myself) an account called 'Undeposited Funds' as a Current Asset. Checks and currency destined to the bank (but not there yet) are recorded here when received. Regards, Adrien On 9/8/20 4:58 PM, Max Hyre wrote: Be careful with the `petty cash' account. It has a specific meaning in bookkeeping: it's a set amount you keep on hand for when someone needs to buy copier paper, or pens, or whatnot, and doesn't want to bother with a check or credit card. When it gets low, you top it off to the set amount and continue. Get the receipts to check against the account. For the above suggestion, I think what you need is a ``miscellaneous cash'' account, or a ``cash in second left-hand drawer'' whose only purpose it to go into the bank. You can then log the two different cash receipts as transfers from Income:Offertory —> 2d drawer and Income:Collection —> 2d drawer. These will be dated for the Sunday the cash was received. At some future date, you’ll transfer the whole (or part) of the 2d drawer Cash into the bank account with a single pay-in slip: Asssets:Current Assets:2d drawer —> Assets:Current Assets:Your Bank. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
