Re: [GNC] How to balance correctly a particular transaction which involves debt?
I'd thought that "reimbursable expenses" would generally mean purchases incurred in the course of running a business or service, and will be later charged to the customer when invoicing them. Eg materials, supplies. Slightly different from a friendly loan which is an asset IMV. On Mon, 21 Sep 2020, 10:57 pm w...@theprescotts.com, wrote: > IANAA (I am not an accountant), but I handle that situation in my personal > books with an expense account named "Reimbursable expenses". When the money > is spent I credit it to Reimbursables, and when the money is repaid, I > debit it to Reimbursables. > > Will > > On 2020 Sep 21, at 09-21 09:35:39, Christopher Lam < > christopher@gmail.com> wrote: > > Well you'd use the description field to describe the narrative of the > transaction. "Bought $50 of books from Shop for friend". Later on when > friend settles debt into your bank you'd write "recover $50 from friend". > > This approach would mean the widget shop shouldn't appear in your expense > report. IMHO. > > On Mon, 21 Sep 2020, 10:25 pm Daniel Fishman, wrote: > > > On 9/21/20 5:15 PM, Christopher Lam wrote: > >> I wouldn't add an entry into Expenses:shop -- you didn't exactly spend > > your > >> money into this shop. > >> > >> Spending/lending money: > >> Liability:credit card -$50 > >> Asset:Friend owes me +$50 > >> > >> Recovering funds: > >> Asset:Friend owes me -$50 > >> Asset:Cash or bank +$50 > > > > It seems to me that using the > > > > Liability:credit card -$50 > > Asset:Friend owes me +$50 > > > > loses a bit of information, since a credit card statement will list the > > shop > > as the receiver of the money. It seems to me that by omitting the shop > > from > > being mentioned in any of the entries will make it more difficult to > > correlate > > the credit card statement with an information in gnucash. > > > > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] How to balance correctly a particular transaction which involves debt?
On 21 September 2020 at 16:37, Daniel Fishman said: > Hello, > > Suppose that you go with your friend to a shop, and then a friend > remembers that he forgotten his credit card and asks you to pay > for his merchandise. He intends to return the money later. You pay > in the shop (for example, buy a book) using your credit card. Then > a few days later the friend returns his debt - for example, by paying you > cash. > > I want to document those facts in gnucash. > > Since the payment to the shop was made by the credit card, an account > 'Expenses:' is debited, while an account 'Liability: card name>' is credited. This is wrong. [...] > What is the accepted way to document such transactions? Only two splits needed: Liabilities:Creditcard Assets:Owed to me:Friend You have not incurred an expense so should not be listing one. Unless, perhaps, you were buying something for yourself in the same transaction, in which case the obvious split applies. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] How to balance correctly a particular transaction which involves debt?
Daniel, I use: Assets:Current Assets:Reimbursements I then have category accounts under that for, Family Friends Other And then individual accounts with each person's name. (I have one for each sibling, parent, and several close friends where this happens regularly enough to need them) But you could just use one single account if you like. The individual account example is nice because you can see at a glance how much any one specific person owes you or you owe them, without involving the Business Features which would be overkill. In all of GnuCash, I use the Description field *only* for 'Payee/Payor', an old habit from other software, but it serves me well. I use the 'Notes' field (only visible in Double Line mode) for what many others would call 'description'. Doing so in your case would show the store name in the Description field, one of the splits would contain the credit card account, the other split would be set to your friend's reimbursable account with you. You could alternatively put the store name in the Notes field. Either are searchable, and also filterable for a report. It doesn't involve expense (or income) accounts at all. In the case of someone owing you, that is an asset. The reverse, you owing them, would be a liability. So you could put the reimbursable accounts in either part of the tree. I chose assets because others are usually owing me, but the reverse does happen occasionally. It is simple enough to see that the balance is negative, indicating such a condition. Finally, it wasn't entirely clear from the initial post, but if you *also* bought something at the same store on the same transaction, then you of course *would* have one or more splits for your own expenses, but then additional split(s) for your loan to your friend. Hope that helps. Regards, Adrien On 9/21/20 9:25 AM, Daniel Fishman wrote: On 9/21/20 5:15 PM, Christopher Lam wrote: I wouldn't add an entry into Expenses:shop -- you didn't exactly spend your money into this shop. Spending/lending money: Liability:credit card -$50 Asset:Friend owes me +$50 Recovering funds: Asset:Friend owes me -$50 Asset:Cash or bank +$50 It seems to me that using the Liability:credit card -$50 Asset:Friend owes me +$50 loses a bit of information, since a credit card statement will list the shop as the receiver of the money. It seems to me that by omitting the shop from being mentioned in any of the entries will make it more difficult to correlate the credit card statement with an information in gnucash. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] How to balance correctly a particular transaction which involves debt?
On 9/21/2020 9:37 AM, Daniel Fishman wrote: Hello, Suppose that you go with your friend to a shop, and then a friend remembers that he forgotten his credit card and asks you to pay for his merchandise. He intends to return the money later. You pay in the shop (for example, buy a book) using your credit card. Then a few days later the friend returns his debt - for example, by paying you cash. I want to document those facts in gnucash. Since the payment to the shop was made by the credit card, an account 'Expenses:' is debited, while an account 'Liability:card name>' is credited. I also want to make it explicit that a friend incurred debt due to this transaction. Stop --- why did you debit Expenses:> ? I assume you normally do that (expense incurred where) rather than expense:category of expense, but that's just a matter of what you want to track. But THIS transaction wasn't about an expense of yours. It was about an expense of your friend that he/she paid for by incurring a debt to you. So for YOUR books, debit assets:owed by friend X; credit liability:credit card. More likely the situation was that you ALSO bought something, in which case the debit side of the transaction would be a split. Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] How to balance correctly a particular transaction which involves debt?
On 2020-09-21 06:37, Daniel Fishman wrote: > Suppose that you go with your friend to a shop, and then a friend > remembers that he forgotten his credit card and asks you to pay > for his merchandise. > > Since the payment to the shop was made by the credit card, an account > 'Expenses:' is debited, I don't think so. You have incurred no expense. Instead, you have created an _Asset_, "Loans to friends" or something similar. > while an account 'Liability:' is credited. Correct. > I also want to make it explicit that a friend incurred> debt due to this transaction. Therefore, it seems to me that this > transaction > should also contain a split which debits an account > 'Assets:Accounts receivable:'. Not "also" but only. And of course you would put the friend's name in the Description or Notes field, unless he does this often enough that you want a specific account for your loans to him. > Then when the friend pays his debt, an account > 'Assets:Accounts receivable:' should be credited, and > an account 'Assets:Cash' should be debited, Exactly right. > but what about an account > 'Equity:Balancing account' - should it just be left as is (that is, > not debited)? There shouldn't be one, at least not relative to this transaction. -- Regards, Stan Brown Tehachapi, CA, USA https://BrownMath.com https://OakRoadSystems.com ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] How to balance correctly a particular transaction which involves debt?
IANAA (I am not an accountant), but I handle that situation in my personal books with an expense account named "Reimbursable expenses". When the money is spent I credit it to Reimbursables, and when the money is repaid, I debit it to Reimbursables. Will On 2020 Sep 21, at 09-21 09:35:39, Christopher Lam wrote: Well you'd use the description field to describe the narrative of the transaction. "Bought $50 of books from Shop for friend". Later on when friend settles debt into your bank you'd write "recover $50 from friend". This approach would mean the widget shop shouldn't appear in your expense report. IMHO. On Mon, 21 Sep 2020, 10:25 pm Daniel Fishman, wrote: > On 9/21/20 5:15 PM, Christopher Lam wrote: >> I wouldn't add an entry into Expenses:shop -- you didn't exactly spend > your >> money into this shop. >> >> Spending/lending money: >> Liability:credit card -$50 >> Asset:Friend owes me +$50 >> >> Recovering funds: >> Asset:Friend owes me -$50 >> Asset:Cash or bank +$50 > > It seems to me that using the > > Liability:credit card -$50 > Asset:Friend owes me +$50 > > loses a bit of information, since a credit card statement will list the > shop > as the receiver of the money. It seems to me that by omitting the shop > from > being mentioned in any of the entries will make it more difficult to > correlate > the credit card statement with an information in gnucash. > > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] How to balance correctly a particular transaction which involves debt?
Well you'd use the description field to describe the narrative of the transaction. "Bought $50 of books from Shop for friend". Later on when friend settles debt into your bank you'd write "recover $50 from friend". This approach would mean the widget shop shouldn't appear in your expense report. IMHO. On Mon, 21 Sep 2020, 10:25 pm Daniel Fishman, wrote: > On 9/21/20 5:15 PM, Christopher Lam wrote: > > I wouldn't add an entry into Expenses:shop -- you didn't exactly spend > your > > money into this shop. > > > > Spending/lending money: > > Liability:credit card -$50 > > Asset:Friend owes me +$50 > > > > Recovering funds: > > Asset:Friend owes me -$50 > > Asset:Cash or bank +$50 > > It seems to me that using the > > Liability:credit card -$50 > Asset:Friend owes me +$50 > > loses a bit of information, since a credit card statement will list the > shop > as the receiver of the money. It seems to me that by omitting the shop > from > being mentioned in any of the entries will make it more difficult to > correlate > the credit card statement with an information in gnucash. > > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] How to balance correctly a particular transaction which involves debt?
On 9/21/20 5:15 PM, Christopher Lam wrote: I wouldn't add an entry into Expenses:shop -- you didn't exactly spend your money into this shop. Spending/lending money: Liability:credit card -$50 Asset:Friend owes me +$50 Recovering funds: Asset:Friend owes me -$50 Asset:Cash or bank +$50 It seems to me that using the Liability:credit card -$50 Asset:Friend owes me +$50 loses a bit of information, since a credit card statement will list the shop as the receiver of the money. It seems to me that by omitting the shop from being mentioned in any of the entries will make it more difficult to correlate the credit card statement with an information in gnucash. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] How to balance correctly a particular transaction which involves debt?
I wouldn't add an entry into Expenses:shop -- you didn't exactly spend your money into this shop. Spending/lending money: Liability:credit card -$50 Asset:Friend owes me +$50 Recovering funds: Asset:Friend owes me -$50 Asset:Cash or bank +$50 HTH On Mon, 21 Sep 2020, 9:40 pm Daniel Fishman, wrote: > Hello, > > Suppose that you go with your friend to a shop, and then a friend > remembers that he forgotten his credit card and asks you to pay > for his merchandise. He intends to return the money later. You pay > in the shop (for example, buy a book) using your credit card. Then > a few days later the friend returns his debt - for example, by paying > you cash. > > I want to document those facts in gnucash. > > Since the payment to the shop was made by the credit card, an account > 'Expenses:' is debited, while an account 'Liability: card name>' > is credited. I also want to make it explicit that a friend incurred > debt due to this transaction. Therefore, it seems to me that this > transaction > should also contain a split which debits an account > 'Assets:Accounts receivable:'. But which account should be > credited to balance the transaction? Suppose that I credit some > artificial account, like 'Equity:Balancing account' and succeed to > balance the transaction. Then when the friend pays his debt, an account > 'Assets:Accounts receivable:' should be credited, and > an account 'Assets:Cash' should be debited, but what about an account > 'Equity:Balancing account' - should it just be left as is (that is, > not debited)? It seems a bit artificial. > > What is the accepted way to document such transactions? > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
