Re: [GNC] Income statement incorrect
Sounds like a lot of work. Would simply not posting the bills/invoices until actually paid not accomplish the proper timing of when the transactions hit the books? (yes, you do lose the ‘reminders’ feature in that case, but unless that is critical, it is a small price for not having to maintain 2 books) Regards, Adrien > On Aug 4, 2019, at 10:37 AM, Mike or Penny Novack > wrote: > > On 8/3/2019 6:16 AM, Liz wrote: >> On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 09:10:02 -0700 (PDT) >> Rich Shepard wrote: >> >>> Would be nice to have a cash accounting option in addition to the >>> default accrual accounting option. >> Whether a business uses cash or accrual accounting in Australia is set >> by the tax authorities, so I am obliged to use cash accounting. > This is a common situation in many jurisdictions with certain sorts of > businesses required to use either cash of accrual. The difficulty is that > gnucash does not support PRODUCING invoices for cash based << in other words, > simply producing an invoice but NOT entering transaction to A/R and income >> > > That's why I am mentioning "multiple books". If I had to produce invoices, it > is what I would do. Set up a virtual entity associated with the actual > entity. This virtual entity would be "accrual" and so have A/R and income and > it would produce the invoices to be sent out (and track which paid, which > outstanding) but the A/R and income would otherwise be ignored << when > invoice paid, a transaction in the main (cash books affecting cash and income > >> > > Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Income statement incorrect
On 8/3/2019 6:16 AM, Liz wrote: On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 09:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Rich Shepard wrote: Would be nice to have a cash accounting option in addition to the default accrual accounting option. Whether a business uses cash or accrual accounting in Australia is set by the tax authorities, so I am obliged to use cash accounting. This is a common situation in many jurisdictions with certain sorts of businesses required to use either cash of accrual. The difficulty is that gnucash does not support PRODUCING invoices for cash based << in other words, simply producing an invoice but NOT entering transaction to A/R and income >> That's why I am mentioning "multiple books". If I had to produce invoices, it is what I would do. Set up a virtual entity associated with the actual entity. This virtual entity would be "accrual" and so have A/R and income and it would produce the invoices to be sent out (and track which paid, which outstanding) but the A/R and income would otherwise be ignored << when invoice paid, a transaction in the main (cash books affecting cash and income >> Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Income statement incorrect
On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 09:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Rich Shepard wrote: > Would be nice to have a cash accounting option in addition to the > default accrual accounting option. Whether a business uses cash or accrual accounting in Australia is set by the tax authorities, so I am obliged to use cash accounting. Most of the businesses to whom I send invoices like to have everything invoiced and paid prior to the end of the financial year, so rarely do I have invoices unpaid at the end of the financial year. When it happens my accountant does the fixing up for me. I was considering that you may be able to manage by the use of an intermediate account, in which you post invoices to a subaccount of AR. I haven't thought this through fully, but some of our deeper thinkers may be able to work it out. Liz ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Income statement incorrect
On Wed, 31 Jul 2019, Adrien Monteleone wrote: I didn’t mean it like that. Adrien, Thank you. It is far too common with e-mail messages to be mis-read or mis-interpreted. Non-verbal communication (body language and facial expressions) have been reported to comprise about 60% of face-to-face communications. That means that only 40% is conveyed in writing. Regards, Rich ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Income statement incorrect
Sorry Rich, I didn’t mean it like that. Regards, Adrien > On Jul 31, 2019, at 12:03 PM, Rich Shepard wrote: > > On Wed, 31 Jul 2019, Adrien Monteleone wrote: > >> The type of service doesn’t matter. Certainly, there are professional >> services who pre-bill and who use accrual instead of cash-basis >> accounting. (such a situation is exactly what accrual accounting handles) >> That’s more a question for a CPA as to which is the best fit for you. > > Adrien, > > My business has been set as cash-based since 1993. That was not the question > I asked, nor a reason to not have gnucash offer a cash-accounting option for > reports. > > Rich ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Income statement incorrect
On Wed, 31 Jul 2019, Derek Atkins wrote: 1) You'll need to manually back out your AR and AP to convert from Accrual to Cash, or Sorry, but that's where we are. Personally, I use option #1. Derek, I'm not an accountant but I know that each taxing authority has different rules and requirements. Now I, too, will use option #1. Thanks, Rich ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Income statement incorrect [RESOLVED]
On Wed, 31 Jul 2019, Derek Atkins wrote: This is a question of Cash vs Accrual accounting. The business features imply Accrual accounting, so yes, if you have Receivables that *is* included in the Income Statement. I've unposted pending receivables and will no longer post them until the checks are received. Thanks for clarifying, Rich ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Income statement incorrect
Hi, On Wed, July 31, 2019 1:03 pm, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Wed, 31 Jul 2019, Adrien Monteleone wrote: > >> The type of service doesn’t matter. Certainly, there are professional >> services who pre-bill and who use accrual instead of cash-basis >> accounting. (such a situation is exactly what accrual accounting >> handles) >> That’s more a question for a CPA as to which is the best fit for you. > > Adrien, > > My business has been set as cash-based since 1993. That was not the > question > I asked, nor a reason to not have gnucash offer a cash-accounting option > for > reports. It doesn't offer it because nobody has implemented it.. And part of that is because implementing it is not all that straightforward. For example, let's say you have an Invoice that combines multiple different Income accounts. Now, the customer only pays part of that invoice. How do you divvy up the partial payment for Cash-based accounting? It's been sitting open for 17 years exactly because trying to solve it opens a can of worms. So really, we say either: 1) You'll need to manually back out your AR and AP to convert from Accrual to Cash, or 2) Don't use the Business Features. Sorry, but that's where we are. Personally, I use option #1. > Rich > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. -derek -- Derek Atkins 617-623-3745 de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com Computer and Internet Security Consultant ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Income statement incorrect
On Wed, 31 Jul 2019, Adrien Monteleone wrote: The type of service doesn’t matter. Certainly, there are professional services who pre-bill and who use accrual instead of cash-basis accounting. (such a situation is exactly what accrual accounting handles) That’s more a question for a CPA as to which is the best fit for you. Adrien, My business has been set as cash-based since 1993. That was not the question I asked, nor a reason to not have gnucash offer a cash-accounting option for reports. Rich ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Income statement incorrect
The type of service doesn’t matter. Certainly, there are professional services who pre-bill and who use accrual instead of cash-basis accounting. (such a situation is exactly what accrual accounting handles) That’s more a question for a CPA as to which is the best fit for you. Regards, Adrien > On Jul 31, 2019, at 11:10 AM, Rich Shepard wrote: > > On Wed, 31 Jul 2019, Adrien Monteleone wrote: > >> If you want a cash-basis Income Statement, you’ll need to modify your >> included accounts in the Accounts tab of the report’s Options. > > Adrien, > > Okay. That is preferable to unposting invoices. Mine is a professional service > business so ivoices are sent (and need to be paid) before services are > rendered. Many of my clients are on a retainer basis so invoices for coming > periods are sent in advance, but the money not received until the next > period. > > Would be nice to have a cash accounting option in addition to the default > accrual accounting option. > > Thanks, > > Rich ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Income statement incorrect
Assets don’t show up in the Income Statement (P). They do show up in the Balance Sheet. Sorry, I spoke to soon, as there is no way through account selection to generate a cash-basis Income Statement while using the Business Features. The posting date of the invoice is when the Income accounts are credited. (which is what is reported on the Income Statement along with Expenses) Solution: Don’t post your invoices till paid. You can create an invoice, send it to a client, then when they remit payment, first, post the invoice in the period of the payment, then apply the payment. For existing invoices, yes, you’ll have to unpost them, no tragedy there save a few clicks. Regards, Adrien > On Jul 31, 2019, at 11:19 AM, Rich Shepard wrote: > > On Wed, 31 Jul 2019, Adrien Monteleone wrote: > >> If you want a cash-basis Income Statement, you’ll need to modify your >> included accounts in the Accounts tab of the report’s Options. > > Adrien, > > It's not working. The 'defaults' selection colors all accounts blue (except > for a couple), but while ctrl-left-click on the A/R account turns that white > it still appears in the income statement under Assets -> Accounts > Receivable. > > Is there another way to exclude that account? > > Regards, > > Rich ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Income statement incorrect
On Wed, 31 Jul 2019, Adrien Monteleone wrote: If you want a cash-basis Income Statement, you’ll need to modify your included accounts in the Accounts tab of the report’s Options. Adrien, It's not working. The 'defaults' selection colors all accounts blue (except for a couple), but while ctrl-left-click on the A/R account turns that white it still appears in the income statement under Assets -> Accounts Receivable. Is there another way to exclude that account? Regards, Rich ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Income statement incorrect
On Wed, 31 Jul 2019, Adrien Monteleone wrote: If you want a cash-basis Income Statement, you’ll need to modify your included accounts in the Accounts tab of the report’s Options. Adrien, Okay. That is preferable to unposting invoices. Mine is a professional service business so ivoices are sent (and need to be paid) before services are rendered. Many of my clients are on a retainer basis so invoices for coming periods are sent in advance, but the money not received until the next period. Would be nice to have a cash accounting option in addition to the default accrual accounting option. Thanks, Rich ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Income statement incorrect
On Wed, 31 Jul 2019, Derek Atkins wrote: This is a question of Cash vs Accrual accounting. The business features imply Accrual accounting, so yes, if you have Receivables that *is* included in the Income Statement. Derek, Ah so. That answers many report questions I've had. My business has always been on a cash accounting basis. See https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95700 This has apparently been an issue for about 17 years. The last post on that thread, by Christopher Lam in 2017, suggested he was working on a solution. I assume that has not been implemented. So I need to unpost invoices and leave them that way until the checks are received? Seems to me there are other cash-accounting businesses that would benefit from being able to use that option on all reports and all periods. Of course this leaves A/R out of any reports such as trial balances. Thanks for explaining, Rich ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Income statement incorrect
Hi, On Wed, July 31, 2019 11:30 am, Rich Shepard wrote: > Running gnucash-3.6 here. I downloaded the help and guide pdf manuals and > assume they're for 3.6. > > Using the start/end date options for the income statement report I see > revenues much higher than shown in the checking account when I specify > July > 2019 as the date range. The brief description of the report in the guide > gave me no insights into why the discrepancy exists. > > The only possibility is that the report is showing accounts receivable > that > have not yet been paid. That would explain the discrepancy. > > Is there a way to produce the income statement of only received revenue > and > not outstanding receivables? This is a question of Cash vs Accrual accounting. The business features imply Accrual accounting, so yes, if you have Receivables that *is* included in the Income Statement. See https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95700 > TIA, > > Rich > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. -derek -- Derek Atkins 617-623-3745 de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com Computer and Internet Security Consultant ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
