Re: [GNC] currency of "value" in stock account
On Thu, Nov 11, 2021 at 08:57:40AM -0600, David Carlson wrote: > One minor additional fact about the GnuCash Stock register, while it > may not identify the currency underlying individual transaction > split lines, it does have an indication in the lower left corner of > the current number of shares identified by the security symbol, > e.g. IBM and the current value in that security register's base > currency, identified by the symbol, e.g. $, which is sometimes > ambiguous, but not the ISO identifier, e.g. USD, which would be > unambiguous. That is not entirely correct. The "current value" display in the lower left corner is in the "Default Currency" that is set up in Edit / Preferences / Accounts / Default Currency By default, that is the currency set up by the system's locale system (LC_MONETARY on Unixy systems). That is yet another currency than the one shown in Debit/Credit, or Buy/Sell, columns. > It is also possible to build a transaction in GnuCash that involves > additional securities in additional split lines, presumably each > with different underlying currencies in their respective base > security accounts, but that would not be an accurate representation > of the actual trades executed in the brokerage house. What would be an accurate representation of an actual trade would be: buy 18 IBM stock @105 USD = DEBIT 1904.74 USD = 18 * 105 USD + 12 EUR (entered as NET PRICING, as is necessary for lot capital gains/loss processing) withdraw 1890 USD from USD bank account withdraw 12 EUR from EUR bank account or buy 18 IBM stock @105 USD = DEBIT 1890 USD (entered as GROSS PRICING) withdraw 1904.74 USD from USD bank account = CREDIT 1904.74 USD record expense of 12 EUR in "expenses:bank costs" = DEBIT 14.74 USD = DEBIT 12 EUR or, when IBM buys European start-up Yoyodyne in an all-stock transaction and one holds yoyodyne shares: sell 300 Yoyoydine @6.3 USD = CREDIT 1890 USD buy 18 IBM stock @105 USD = DEBIT 1890 USD Or in a mixed stock+cash transaction: sell 300 Yoyoydine @6 EUR = CREDIT 1800 EUR = CREDIT 1890 USD buy 9 IBM stock @105 USD = DEBIT 945 USD deposit 900 EUR in bank account = DEBIT 900 EUR = DEBIT 945 USD -- Lionel ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] currency of "value" in stock account
On Thu, Nov 11, 2021 at 07:41:13AM -0500, Derek Atkins wrote: > On Thu, November 11, 2021 5:19 am, Lionel Élie Mamane wrote: > The stock account uses the parent account currency for the > TRANSACTION currency (i.e., what you see in VALUE). By "what you see in VALUE", you mean what I see in the "Debit"/"Credit" or "Sell"/"Buy" columns? That is factually not always true, I have constructed examples where it differs. > The AMOUNT is in the currency/commodity of the account in the > particular split. That is some internal value that is not always shown "raw as it is" in the UI? But it would be: * in the register of a currency-denominated account, the split ON THAT SAME ACCOUNT, would show the AMOUNT in the debit/credit or increase/withdraw or increase/decrease columns, but NOT FOR OTHER SPLITS (whose account can be in a different currency). * in the register of a stock account, that value is shown in the "share" column. Is that what you mean? >> So if I enter a split against a USD account, sorry, that split doesn't >> have access to all the information. The value I enter on the stock >> register is a value in _EUR_, but the USD account must get a value in >> _USD_, so there is an exchange going on. > There is always an exchange going on in stock transactions. Even if > you're just going to one currency, there is the exchange from that > one currency to the stock itself. My point is that there are potentially _two_ exchanges going on, but you, and the GnuCash UI, assume there is only one. Go see e.g. the file attached to https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=636029 namely https://bugs.gnucash.org/attachment.cgi?id=175446 On the Google stock account, there are _two_ exchanges going on: GOOG stock against CAD (the transaction is in CAD) CAD against USD (to pay from the cash account) In https://bugs.gnucash.org/attachment.cgi?id=374263 I have forced GnuCash to recognise that "double conversion" correctly. >> The first problem is that the GnuCash stock registers silently let >> me mix transactions in different currencies in the same register, >> without showing _at_ _all_ what transaction is in which currency. > This has been a long long LONG standing issue (probably going back > 20 years, back to 1.6, when they removed the common-currency from > accounts). Yes, GnuCash attempts to show you the amounts in the > "correct" currency but doesn't show you what that currency is. I filed it as https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798365 >> The second problem is that, under some circumstances, GnuCash will >> *silently* make transaction with a nil amount (value?) on the other >> side of the split. That, in my eyes, is a bug, and should not >> happen. I'm going to make a bug report with a precise reproduction >> example. That bug was actually filed 10+ years ago https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=636029 > This will only happen if you enter a transaction from a stock/mutual > account into an account of a different currency than the > stock/mutual default account. In that case, I am *pretty* sure you > can work around the problem by expanding the splits and manually > entering in the "amount" for the other account split. No, it doesn't, not from the ledger (register) of the stock account. *But*, you can go into the "account of a different currency", enter the amount there, and it will popup the exchange dialog for between "different currency" and "stock/mutual default account currency". > You don't need the exchange-rate dialog because those are already > represented in the stock-account view (in expanded mode). I now discover that this indeed true, but only very partially so, and in a way that is not very discoverable. Not sure it is documented at all. In a stock account register, in expanded mode, when *adding* a split to a a currency account, the "shares" and "price" column are active. The "price" column seems to not have _any_ effect whatever is entered there, but the "shares" column is the amount in currency of the currency account. However, as soon as one leaves the line of that split (even without saving the transaction), the "shares" and "price" columns are displayed as BLANK and are locked; one cannot anymore enter any value in them. >> The problematic cases arise when I create them from the stock >> account. > Yes, this makes sense. Are you entering them in Basic Ledger mode or > in expanded mode? I tried both, but up to now I was using only the debit/credit AKA buy/sell columns for currencies. As explained above, the "shares" column does it... but only on initial creation. -- Lionel ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your repli
Re: [GNC] currency of "value" in stock account
Yes, sorry, my first message got held for moderation because it was sent from a different email address than the one I subscribed as, so I resent it from the "correct" email address, but forgot to cancel the first held up post. On Wed, Nov 10, 2021 at 05:29:05PM -0500, D. via gnucash-user wrote: > I feel like we have heard this all before? > > > Original Message > From: "Lionel Élie Mamane" > Sent: Tue Nov 09 05:44:34 EST 2021 > To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org > Subject: [GNC] currency of "value" in stock account > > I setup a security. > I create an account of type "Stock" that uses that security, let's say > assets:investments:foobar > I open the register for that account > > To enter an operation, in column "shares", I enter the number of > shares. That's clear. > > Now, there are columns "price" (which is per-share-price), and columns > "buy" and "sell" which are the total price of the transaction. What is > not clear to me, is what currency are these columns in? I didn't make > a choice for that, and it doesn't seem to be indicated on screen. > > There seems to something strange going on, because I enter, in basic > ledger mode, say: > > Date: 09/11/21 > Memo: test purchase > account: assets:current assets:some bank account > shares: 5 > Price: 21 > > then I press tab/tab/tab to validate the entry and go to the next > line. The "Buy" column is computed and filled in automatically. So far > so good. > > But in the "assets:current assets:some bank account" ledger, > both splits of that transaction have an empty amount :-| > > In assets:investments:foobar, the bank account split has (when I show > the splits) a "Tot Sell" of 105, that is the 5*21 that I entered. > > Thanks in advance for your explanations, > > Lionel > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] currency of "value" in stock account
Oops. On Thu, Nov 11, 2021 at 10:49 AM Lionel Élie Mamane wrote: > On Thu, Nov 11, 2021 at 08:57:40AM -0600, David Carlson wrote: > > One minor additional fact about the GnuCash Stock register, while it > > may not identify the currency underlying individual transaction > > split lines, it does have an indication in the lower left corner of > > the current number of shares identified by the security symbol, > > e.g. IBM and the current value in that security register's base > > currency, identified by the symbol, e.g. $, which is sometimes > > ambiguous, but not the ISO identifier, e.g. USD, which would be > > unambiguous. > > That is not entirely correct. The "current value" display in the lower > left corner is in the "Default Currency" that is set up in > Edit / Preferences / Accounts / Default Currency > By default, that is the currency set up by the system's locale system > (LC_MONETARY on Unixy systems). > > That is yet another currency than the one shown in Debit/Credit, or > Buy/Sell, columns. > > > It is also possible to build a transaction in GnuCash that involves > > additional securities in additional split lines, presumably each > > with different underlying currencies in their respective base > > security accounts, but that would not be an accurate representation > > of the actual trades executed in the brokerage house. > > What would be an accurate representation of an actual trade would be: > > buy 18 IBM stock @105 USD = DEBIT 1904.74 USD = 18 * 105 USD + 12 EUR > (entered as NET PRICING, as is necessary for lot capital gains/loss > processing) > withdraw 1890 USD from USD bank account > withdraw 12 EUR from EUR bank account > > or > > buy 18 IBM stock @105 USD = DEBIT 1890 USD > (entered as GROSS PRICING) > withdraw 1904.74 USD from USD bank account = CREDIT 1904.74 USD > record expense of 12 EUR in "expenses:bank costs" = DEBIT 14.74 USD = > DEBIT 12 EUR > > or, when IBM buys European start-up Yoyodyne in an all-stock > transaction and one holds yoyodyne shares: > > sell 300 Yoyoydine @6.3 USD = CREDIT 1890 USD > buy 18 IBM stock @105 USD = DEBIT 1890 USD > > Or in a mixed stock+cash transaction: > > sell 300 Yoyoydine @6 EUR = CREDIT 1800 EUR = CREDIT 1890 USD > buy 9 IBM stock @105 USD = DEBIT 945 USD > deposit 900 EUR in bank account = DEBIT 900 EUR = DEBIT 945 USD > > -- > Lionel > -- David Carlson ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] currency of "value" in stock account
On Thu, Nov 11, 2021 at 04:36:59PM +0100, Lionel Élie Mamane wrote: > On Thu, Nov 11, 2021 at 07:41:13AM -0500, Derek Atkins wrote: >> You don't need the exchange-rate dialog because those are already >> represented in the stock-account view (in expanded mode). > I now discover that this indeed true, but only very partially so, > and in a way that is not very discoverable. Not sure it is > documented at all. > In a stock account register, in expanded mode, when *adding* a split > to a a currency account, the "shares" and "price" column are > active. (...) the "shares" column is the amount in currency of the > currency account. > However, as soon as one leaves the line of that split (even without > saving the transaction), the "shares" and "price" columns are > displayed as BLANK and are locked; one cannot anymore enter any value > in them. I filed this inconsistent behaviour as https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798367 ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] currency of "value" in stock account
One minor additional fact about the GnuCash Stock register, while it may not identify the currency underlying individual transaction split lines, it does have an indication in the lower left corner of the current number of shares identified by the security symbol, e.g. IBM and the current value in that security register's base currency, identified by the symbol, e.g. $, which is sometimes ambiguous, but not the ISO identifier, e.g. USD, which would be unambiguous. It is also possible to build a transaction in GnuCash that involves additional securities in additional split lines, presumably each with different underlying currencies in their respective base security accounts, but that would not be an accurate representation of the actual trades executed in the brokerage house. GnuCash does not necessarily limit transactions to whatever might be possible or legal in a given jurisdiction. On Thu, Nov 11, 2021 at 6:42 AM Derek Atkins wrote: > Hi, > > On Thu, November 11, 2021 5:19 am, Lionel Élie Mamane wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 10, 2021 at 05:52:32PM -0500, Derek Atkins wrote: > >> On Tue, November 9, 2021 12:04 pm, Lionel Élie Mamane wrote: > >>> On Tue, Nov 09, 2021 at 07:31:08AM -0500, Derek Atkins wrote: > > [snip] > > > According to your previous message, the currency of the price/buy/sell > > columns is the one of the parent account, in my example EUR. I'm not > > sure that is correct (see my email of > > Sorry, I apologize. I misunderstood the issue here. The stock account > uses the parent account currency for the TRANSACTION currency (i.e., what > you see in VALUE). The AMOUNT is in the currency/commodity of the account > in the particular split. > > > Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 10:09:48 +0100 > > Message-ID: > > ) but for the sake of the example/discussion, let's assume it is. > > > > So if I enter a split against a USD account, sorry, that split doesn't > > have access to all the information. The value I enter on the stock > > register is a value in _EUR_, but the USD account must get a value in > > _USD_, so there is an exchange going on. > > There is always an exchange going on in stock transactions. Even if > you're just going to one currency, there is the exchange from that one > currency to the stock itself. > > [snip] > > I don't (necessarily) have an USD account at every bank. When I buy a > > security in USD from a bank where I have only an EUR account (and > > portfolio account), the sale is necessarily withdrawn from the my EUR > > bank account. Obviously, what they do is exchange EUR for USD, and > > they close the trade in USD, and they take a fee for that. But I don't > > have a separate "USD brokerage" that gets debited with the currency > > exchange, and then credited with the sale. I can "fake" that with a > > USD-denominated "transition account" in GnuCash (not sure if that's > > what they are called in English), so that is not a big problem, if a > > problem at all. > > A Transition account would work (Sometimes here just called a "Brokerage > account"). > > > The first problem is that the GnuCash stock registers silently let me > > mix transactions in different currencies in the same register, without > > showing _at_ _all_ what transaction is in which currency. GnuCash > > should either: > > > > - choose to disallow mixed currencies in same register, and then not > >let the user mix different currencies > > > > - choose to allow mixed currencies in same register, and then clearly > >indicate what transaction is in what currency (and ideally make the > >lot/scrubbing work across currencies, too). > > This has been a long long LONG standing issue (probably going back 20 > years, back to 1.6, when they removed the common-currency from accounts). > Yes, GnuCash attempts to show you the amounts in the "correct" currency > but doesn't show you what that currency is. > > > The second problem is that, under some circumstances, GnuCash will > > *silently* make transaction with a nil amount (value?) on the other > > side of the split. That, in my eyes, is a bug, and should not > > happen. I'm going to make a bug report with a precise reproduction > > example. > > This will only happen if you enter a transaction from a stock/mutual > account into an account of a different currency than the stock/mutual > default account. In that case, I am *pretty* sure you can work around the > problem by expanding the splits and manually entering in the "amount" for > the other account split. > > You don't need the exchange-rate dialog because those are already > represented in the stock-account view (in expanded mode). > > >> When you create these transactions, are you creating them from the > >> stock account or the bank account. > > > > The problematic cases arise when I create them from the stock > > account. > > Yes, this makes sense. Are you entering them in Basic Ledger mode or in > expanded mode? > > > Lionel > > -derek > > -- >Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
Re: [GNC] currency of "value" in stock account
Hi, On Thu, November 11, 2021 5:19 am, Lionel Élie Mamane wrote: > On Wed, Nov 10, 2021 at 05:52:32PM -0500, Derek Atkins wrote: >> On Tue, November 9, 2021 12:04 pm, Lionel Élie Mamane wrote: >>> On Tue, Nov 09, 2021 at 07:31:08AM -0500, Derek Atkins wrote: [snip] > According to your previous message, the currency of the price/buy/sell > columns is the one of the parent account, in my example EUR. I'm not > sure that is correct (see my email of Sorry, I apologize. I misunderstood the issue here. The stock account uses the parent account currency for the TRANSACTION currency (i.e., what you see in VALUE). The AMOUNT is in the currency/commodity of the account in the particular split. > Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 10:09:48 +0100 > Message-ID: > ) but for the sake of the example/discussion, let's assume it is. > > So if I enter a split against a USD account, sorry, that split doesn't > have access to all the information. The value I enter on the stock > register is a value in _EUR_, but the USD account must get a value in > _USD_, so there is an exchange going on. There is always an exchange going on in stock transactions. Even if you're just going to one currency, there is the exchange from that one currency to the stock itself. [snip] > I don't (necessarily) have an USD account at every bank. When I buy a > security in USD from a bank where I have only an EUR account (and > portfolio account), the sale is necessarily withdrawn from the my EUR > bank account. Obviously, what they do is exchange EUR for USD, and > they close the trade in USD, and they take a fee for that. But I don't > have a separate "USD brokerage" that gets debited with the currency > exchange, and then credited with the sale. I can "fake" that with a > USD-denominated "transition account" in GnuCash (not sure if that's > what they are called in English), so that is not a big problem, if a > problem at all. A Transition account would work (Sometimes here just called a "Brokerage account"). > The first problem is that the GnuCash stock registers silently let me > mix transactions in different currencies in the same register, without > showing _at_ _all_ what transaction is in which currency. GnuCash > should either: > > - choose to disallow mixed currencies in same register, and then not >let the user mix different currencies > > - choose to allow mixed currencies in same register, and then clearly >indicate what transaction is in what currency (and ideally make the >lot/scrubbing work across currencies, too). This has been a long long LONG standing issue (probably going back 20 years, back to 1.6, when they removed the common-currency from accounts). Yes, GnuCash attempts to show you the amounts in the "correct" currency but doesn't show you what that currency is. > The second problem is that, under some circumstances, GnuCash will > *silently* make transaction with a nil amount (value?) on the other > side of the split. That, in my eyes, is a bug, and should not > happen. I'm going to make a bug report with a precise reproduction > example. This will only happen if you enter a transaction from a stock/mutual account into an account of a different currency than the stock/mutual default account. In that case, I am *pretty* sure you can work around the problem by expanding the splits and manually entering in the "amount" for the other account split. You don't need the exchange-rate dialog because those are already represented in the stock-account view (in expanded mode). >> When you create these transactions, are you creating them from the >> stock account or the bank account. > > The problematic cases arise when I create them from the stock > account. Yes, this makes sense. Are you entering them in Basic Ledger mode or in expanded mode? > Lionel -derek -- Derek Atkins 617-623-3745 de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com Computer and Internet Security Consultant ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] currency of "value" in stock account
On Wed, Nov 10, 2021 at 05:52:32PM -0500, Derek Atkins wrote: > On Tue, November 9, 2021 12:04 pm, Lionel Élie Mamane wrote: >> On Tue, Nov 09, 2021 at 07:31:08AM -0500, Derek Atkins wrote: >>> It is the currency of the parent account. So in this case it >>> would be the currency of Assets:Investments. There seems to something strange going on, because I enter, in basic ledger mode, account: assets:current assets:some bank account shares: 5 Price: 21 But in the "assets:current assets:some bank account" ledger, both splits of that transaction have an empty amount :-| >>> Let me guess -- Assets:Current Assets:Some Bank Account uses a >>> different currency than Assets:Investments, right? >> Yes. Shouldn't I then get the pop-up dialog asking me the exchange >> rate to use? Like I do when transferring between > No. That only appears on a non-stock register because you don't > have access to the both parts (amount and value) of the split. In > the stock account, however, you *DO* have access to both sides -- so > if you expand out the transaction you don't need the exchange-rate > dialog. According to your previous message, the currency of the price/buy/sell columns is the one of the parent account, in my example EUR. I'm not sure that is correct (see my email of Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 10:09:48 +0100 Message-ID: ) but for the sake of the example/discussion, let's assume it is. So if I enter a split against a USD account, sorry, that split doesn't have access to all the information. The value I enter on the stock register is a value in _EUR_, but the USD account must get a value in _USD_, so there is an exchange going on. > HOWEVER If your stock is in EUR then you should use a EUR bank; > if it's in USD then you should use a USD bank. I don't think the concept of a stock "being" in EUR or in USD is well-defined. E.g. I can buy IBM stock, ISIN US4592001014, on the New York Stock Exchange in USD (right now: last trade at 120.22 USD, bid/ask 120.22/45) https://www.nyse.com/quote/XNYS:IBM or in EUR at the Börse Frankfurt (right now last trade at 105 EUR, Bid 105, Ask 105.20) https://www.boerse-frankfurt.de/equity/ibm-corp When I enter my buy or sale order on my Internet Banking interface, I choose on what exchange it is to be passed; currency then differs. While in the IBM example, one of these listings (and thus currencies) is the "primary" or "canonical" listing, consider the examples of: Nutrien, ISIN CA67077M1086, listed in USD on NYSE and in CAD on the Toronto Stock Exchange. Royal Dutch Shell Class A, ISIN GB00B03MLX29, listed in GBP on the London Stock Exchange and in EUR on Euronext (historically Amsterdam) > If you've got a stock denoted in USD but you're buying or selling > using EUR, then I suspect you're actually sending EUR to the US > Brokerage who is translating it to USD and then buying your stocks. > In this case, you should transfer from your EUR Bank to the USD > Brokerage, perform your EUR->USD exchange, and then use the > Brokerage (Cash) account to buy the stocks. Note: As far as I understand, US Financial Institutions are restricted to be either banks or brokerages, but not both. In the EU, a single entity can be both at the same time. At several EU banks, in my experience, you don't have a "cash part of brokerage" separate from your bank account. You have just the bank account(s) for cash (currencies) and the portfolio (or call that "securities account") for securities. I don't (necessarily) have an USD account at every bank. When I buy a security in USD from a bank where I have only an EUR account (and portfolio account), the sale is necessarily withdrawn from the my EUR bank account. Obviously, what they do is exchange EUR for USD, and they close the trade in USD, and they take a fee for that. But I don't have a separate "USD brokerage" that gets debited with the currency exchange, and then credited with the sale. I can "fake" that with a USD-denominated "transition account" in GnuCash (not sure if that's what they are called in English), so that is not a big problem, if a problem at all. The first problem is that the GnuCash stock registers silently let me mix transactions in different currencies in the same register, without showing _at_ _all_ what transaction is in which currency. GnuCash should either: - choose to disallow mixed currencies in same register, and then not let the user mix different currencies - choose to allow mixed currencies in same register, and then clearly indicate what transaction is in what currency (and ideally make the lot/scrubbing work across currencies, too). The second problem is that, under some circumstances, GnuCash will *silently* make transaction with a nil amount (value?) on the other side of the split. That, in my eyes, is a bug, and should not happen. I'm going to make a bug report with a precise reproduction example. > When you create these transactions, are you creating t
Re: [GNC] currency of "value" in stock account
I too am confused now. IIRC the previous message noted that currency values were not specifically identified by the currency name when they appeared in the transaction view, which did seem to be a valid concern, but this does not mention that. Now my mail editor will not let me review what this message states, so I am now thoroughly lost. On Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 4:30 PM D. via gnucash-user wrote: > I feel like we have heard this all before? > > > Original Message > From: "Lionel Élie Mamane" > Sent: Tue Nov 09 05:44:34 EST 2021 > To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org > Subject: [GNC] currency of "value" in stock account > > I setup a security. > I create an account of type "Stock" that uses that security, let's say > assets:investments:foobar > I open the register for that account > > To enter an operation, in column "shares", I enter the number of > shares. That's clear. > > Now, there are columns "price" (which is per-share-price), and columns > "buy" and "sell" which are the total price of the transaction. What is > not clear to me, is what currency are these columns in? I didn't make > a choice for that, and it doesn't seem to be indicated on screen. > > There seems to something strange going on, because I enter, in basic > ledger mode, say: > > Date: 09/11/21 > Memo: test purchase > account: assets:current assets:some bank account > shares: 5 > Price: 21 > > then I press tab/tab/tab to validate the entry and go to the next > line. The "Buy" column is computed and filled in automatically. So far > so good. > > But in the "assets:current assets:some bank account" ledger, > both splits of that transaction have an empty amount :-| > > In assets:investments:foobar, the bank account split has (when I show > the splits) a "Tot Sell" of 105, that is the 5*21 that I entered. > > Thanks in advance for your explanations, > > Lionel > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] currency of "value" in stock account
Hi, On Tue, November 9, 2021 12:04 pm, Lionel Élie Mamane wrote: > On Tue, Nov 09, 2021 at 07:31:08AM -0500, Derek Atkins wrote: >> On Tue, November 9, 2021 6:41 am, Lionel Élie Mamane wrote: [snip] >> It is the currency of the parent account. So in this case it would >> be the currency of Assets:Investments. > > OK, thanks. > >>> There seems to something strange going on, because I enter, in basic >>> ledger mode, > >>> account: assets:current assets:some bank account >>> shares: 5 >>> Price: 21 > >>> But in the "assets:current assets:some bank account" ledger, >>> both splits of that transaction have an empty amount :-| > >> Let me guess -- Assets:Current Assets:Some Bank Account uses a >> different currency than Assets:Investments, right? > > Yes. Shouldn't I then get the pop-up dialog asking me the exchange > rate to use? Like I do when transferring between No. That only appears on a non-stock register because you don't have access to the both parts (amount and value) of the split. In the stock account, however, you *DO* have access to both sides -- so if you expand out the transaction you don't need the exchange-rate dialog. HOWEVER If your stock is in EUR then you should use a EUR bank; if it's in USD then you should use a USD bank. If you've got a stock denoted in USD but you're buying or selling using EUR, then I suspect you're actually sending EUR to the US Brokerage who is translating it to USD and then buying your stocks. In this case, you should transfer from your EUR Bank to the USD Brokerage, perform your EUR->USD exchange, and then use the Brokerage (Cash) account to buy the stocks. > Assets:Current Assets:EUR Bank Account > and > Assets:Current Assets:USD Bank Account I'm not sure how this applies here. When you create these transactions, are you creating them from the stock account or the bank account. Unless the logic has changed (which is certainly possible), it should take the brokerage currency. Regardless, taking a stock between currencies like you're attempting to do is just going to lead you to madness. What brokerage are you using that lets you buy a stock in USD and sell it in EUR without using an intermediary cash account? -derek -- Derek Atkins 617-623-3745 de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com Computer and Internet Security Consultant ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] currency of "value" in stock account
I feel like we have heard this all before? Original Message From: "Lionel Élie Mamane" Sent: Tue Nov 09 05:44:34 EST 2021 To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org Subject: [GNC] currency of "value" in stock account I setup a security. I create an account of type "Stock" that uses that security, let's say assets:investments:foobar I open the register for that account To enter an operation, in column "shares", I enter the number of shares. That's clear. Now, there are columns "price" (which is per-share-price), and columns "buy" and "sell" which are the total price of the transaction. What is not clear to me, is what currency are these columns in? I didn't make a choice for that, and it doesn't seem to be indicated on screen. There seems to something strange going on, because I enter, in basic ledger mode, say: Date: 09/11/21 Memo: test purchase account: assets:current assets:some bank account shares: 5 Price: 21 then I press tab/tab/tab to validate the entry and go to the next line. The "Buy" column is computed and filled in automatically. So far so good. But in the "assets:current assets:some bank account" ledger, both splits of that transaction have an empty amount :-| In assets:investments:foobar, the bank account split has (when I show the splits) a "Tot Sell" of 105, that is the 5*21 that I entered. Thanks in advance for your explanations, Lionel ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] currency of "value" in stock account
On Tue, Nov 09, 2021 at 06:04:13PM +0100, Lionel Élie Mamane wrote: > On Tue, Nov 09, 2021 at 07:31:08AM -0500, Derek Atkins wrote: >> On Tue, November 9, 2021 6:41 am, Lionel Élie Mamane wrote: >>> I create an account of type "Stock" that uses that security, let's say >>> assets:investments:foobar >>> I open the register for that account >>> Now, there are columns "price" (which is per-share-price), and >>> columns "buy" and "sell" which are the total price of the >>> transaction. What is not clear to me, is what currency are these >>> columns in? I didn't make a choice for that, and it doesn't seem >>> to be indicated on screen. >> It is the currency of the parent account. So in this case it would >> be the currency of Assets:Investments. > OK, thanks. I discovered that the "show lots" window display these amounts _with_ the currency symbol, and so allows some visibility on that information. From some tests I did, it seems your assertion is not correct. The amounts, at least as shown by the "show lots" window, seem to be in the currency of the account of the second split in the transaction. That is, if I enter: assets:investments:foobar 5 21 105 assets:current assets:bank EUR 105 then the "a:c a:bank EUR" account is credited by 105 EUR, and the "sell" in a:i:foobar is 105 EUR (shown as € in "show lots"). But if I enter: assets:investments:foobar 5 21 105 assets:current assets:bank USD 105 then the "a:c a:bank EUR" account is credited by 105 USD, and the "sell" in a:i:foobar is 105 USD (shown as $ in "show lots"). Which means that the same ledger shows in the same column amounts in differing currencies, without labelling them with the currency. I'd argue this is bad, and a bug. Additionally, I tried, and putting a EUR buy transaction and a USD sell transaction in the same lot breaks the capital gains/losses computation, it just puts 0 capital gain/loss. That might, or might not, be fixable (especially if you have trading accounts activated). ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] currency of "value" in stock account
On Tue, Nov 09, 2021 at 07:31:08AM -0500, Derek Atkins wrote: > On Tue, November 9, 2021 6:41 am, Lionel Élie Mamane wrote: >> I create an account of type "Stock" that uses that security, let's say >> assets:investments:foobar >> I open the register for that account >> Now, there are columns "price" (which is per-share-price), and >> columns "buy" and "sell" which are the total price of the >> transaction. What is not clear to me, is what currency are these >> columns in? I didn't make a choice for that, and it doesn't seem to >> be indicated on screen. > It is the currency of the parent account. So in this case it would > be the currency of Assets:Investments. OK, thanks. >> There seems to something strange going on, because I enter, in basic >> ledger mode, >> account: assets:current assets:some bank account >> shares: 5 >> Price: 21 >> But in the "assets:current assets:some bank account" ledger, >> both splits of that transaction have an empty amount :-| > Let me guess -- Assets:Current Assets:Some Bank Account uses a > different currency than Assets:Investments, right? Yes. Shouldn't I then get the pop-up dialog asking me the exchange rate to use? Like I do when transferring between Assets:Current Assets:EUR Bank Account and Assets:Current Assets:USD Bank Account ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] currency of "value" in stock account
Hi, On Tue, November 9, 2021 6:41 am, Lionel Élie Mamane wrote: > I setup a security. > I create an account of type "Stock" that uses that security, let's say > assets:investments:foobar > I open the register for that account > > To enter an operation, in column "shares", I enter the number of > shares. That's clear. > > Now, there are columns "price" (which is per-share-price), and columns > "buy" and "sell" which are the total price of the transaction. What is > not clear to me, is what currency are these columns in? I didn't make > a choice for that, and it doesn't seem to be indicated on screen. It is the currency of the parent account. So in this case it would be the currency of Assets:Investments. > There seems to something strange going on, because I enter, in basic > ledger mode, say: > > Date: 09/11/21 > Memo: test purchase > account: assets:current assets:some bank account > shares: 5 > Price: 21 > > then I press tab/tab/tab to validate the entry and go to the next > line. The "Buy" column is computed and filled in automatically. So far > so good. > > But in the "assets:current assets:some bank account" ledger, > both splits of that transaction have an empty amount :-| Let me guess -- Assets:Current Assets:Some Bank Account uses a different currency than Assets:Investments, right? > In assets:investments:foobar, the bank account split has (when I show > the splits) a "Tot Sell" of 105, that is the 5*21 that I entered. > > Thanks in advance for your explanations, > > Lionel > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. -derek -- Derek Atkins 617-623-3745 de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com Computer and Internet Security Consultant ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
