How to add authentication capabilities to an existing key?

2013-09-10 Thread Anthony Papillion
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Hash: SHA512

Is there a good way to add authentication capabilities to an existing
RSA key? I see how to toggle it if I create a new subkey but not how
to add it to an existing key.

Thanks,
Anthony

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Re: Problems using 10kbit keys in GnuPG instead of 4kbit keys

2013-09-10 Thread Werner Koch
On Mon,  9 Sep 2013 21:41, p...@heypete.com said:

 Werner would change the hard-coded maximum keysize from the current
 4096 to, say 8192 (or 15,360 or 16,384) bits so that users who desired

As of now I see no reason at all to lift this limit.  It is there for a
good reason, namely making crypti accessible to all people.

There are several problems with overlong encryption keys, to name just
two:

 - If you use an 8k encryption key you should also use an 8k primary
   certification key because that is the key which is used to keep the
   parts of an OpenPGP keyblob together.  Without that it is easy to
   slip in another encryption key.  Now, 8k RSA signatures are a pain in
   the registers.  It takes too long to verify the hundreds of
   signatures people have on their keyrings - even on fast machines.

 - Some MUA decrypt messages on the fly while you are browsing through
   all the new mails - if that takes too long due to the many 8k keys,
   it makes the MUA unusable.

But thank you, Ole, that you trust our coding capabilities more than the
strong math of an 2K RSA key.  I am not sure whether this is justified,
though.


Shalom-Salam,

   Werner

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Re: Problems using 10kbit keys in GnuPG instead of 4kbit keys

2013-09-10 Thread yyy


- Original Message - 
From: Werner Koch w...@gnupg.org

To: Pete Stephenson p...@heypete.com
Cc: GnuPG Users Mailing List gnupg-users@gnupg.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: Problems using 10kbit keys in GnuPG instead of 4kbit keys


- Some MUA decrypt messages on the fly while you are browsing through
  all the new mails - if that takes too long due to the many 8k keys,
  it makes the MUA unusable.


This is only a problem to user who choose to use 8k key, not to anyone else.

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The symmetric ciphers

2013-09-10 Thread Philipp Klaus Krause
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I wonder if it would be a good idea to have an option to combine
symmetric ciphers, e.g. users could state a preference list like this:

TWOFISH+AES256 3DES+BLOWFISH+AES AES 3DES

The meaning of A+B would be to encrypt using A first, and then encrypt
the result using B with a different key. Assuming it takes effort a to
break cipher A and effort b to break cipher b, this should result in
effort at least max(a, b) needed to break A+B. And with uncertainity
about possible weaknesses in individual ciphers, this seems like a
reasonable measure to me.

Philipp
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Re: How to add authentication capabilities to an existing key?

2013-09-10 Thread Paul R. Ramer
Anthony Papillion anth...@cajuntechie.org wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Is there a good way to add authentication capabilities to an existing
RSA key? I see how to toggle it if I create a new subkey but not how
to add it to an existing key.
[snip]

Hello Anthony,

As far as I know, there is no such capability to do that with gpg.  You have to 
set that capability when you create the key.  HTH.

Cheers,

--Paul

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Re: The symmetric ciphers

2013-09-10 Thread Paul R. Ramer
Philipp Klaus Krause p...@spth.de wrote:
I wonder if it would be a good idea to have an option to combine
symmetric ciphers, e.g. users could state a preference list like this:

TWOFISH+AES256 3DES+BLOWFISH+AES AES 3DES

The meaning of A+B would be to encrypt using A first, and then encrypt
the result using B with a different key. Assuming it takes effort a to
break cipher A and effort b to break cipher b, this should result in
effort at least max(a, b) needed to break A+B. And with uncertainity
about possible weaknesses in individual ciphers, this seems like a
reasonable measure to me.
You may just prefer to use a key with a larger size and a better password. But 
if you do want to do this, I am sure that you could write a script or program 
that could take advantage of GnuPG for this purpose.

Cheers,

--Paul
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Re: How to add authentication capabilities to an existing key?

2013-09-10 Thread Werner Koch
On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 12:35, free10...@gmail.com said:

 As far as I know, there is no such capability to do that with gpg.  You have 
 to set that capability when you create the key.  HTH.

Right, you need to change the source to add such a feature.  I agree
that adding a way to add an authentication capability to a key might
make sense in some cases.  As soon as this emerges as a real world use
case, I am pretty sure it will be added.


Shalom-Salam,

   Werner

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Re: How to add authentication capabilities to an existing key?

2013-09-10 Thread Anthony Papillion
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Hash: SHA512

On 09/10/2013 05:35 AM, Paul R. Ramer wrote:
 Anthony Papillion anth...@cajuntechie.org wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512
 
 Is there a good way to add authentication capabilities to an
 existing RSA key? I see how to toggle it if I create a new subkey
 but not how to add it to an existing key.
 [snip]
 
 Hello Anthony,
 
 As far as I know, there is no such capability to do that with gpg.
 You have to set that capability when you create the key.  HTH.

Thanks, Paul! I don't really need the feature anyway, I just read
about it and figured 'why not?  Plus I wanted to investigate what it
was for. After the responses from both you and Werner, I'm not that
concerned about it.

Thanks!
Anthony


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Re: Fedora GPG Key Server

2013-09-10 Thread Werner Koch
On Mon,  9 Sep 2013 15:44, marcio.barb...@gmail.com said:
 This whole NSA blackmailing situation is causing strange reactions in you, 
 sir.

This has nothing to do with the NSA.  There are two reasons:

I don't like to switch tasks too often.  My main way of communication is
by mail and I I read and reply to a bunch of mails at once.  Switching
between Emacs and Conkeror is just disturbing and loading web pages
often takes several seconds.

Further, I am often offline (think train or hammock in the garden) and
thus have no way or incentive to read online stuff.


Shalom-Salam,

   Werner


p.s.  Right, I am not a digital native.  I grew up mostly with analog
communication; for example mobile using the SSB “protocol” with an
IC202.  But to some extend also digital with a T37 for RTTY up in the
shack.

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Re: GPG and Outlook revisited

2013-09-10 Thread Werner Koch
On Mon,  9 Sep 2013 23:38, do...@dougbarton.us said:

 It's worth noting for sake of argument that the same exact concerns
 apply to the pre-packaged binaries of GnuPG for Windows.

The difference is that it is possible to build it on your own.  If you
are concerened, please do that.

I would be more concerned about all the open source libaries we use - I
am not able to check them for backdoors.  But at least there is a chance
that such a backdoor will be revealed and may even be tracked down to
that innocent hackers whos development box has been bugged by a TLA :-(


Salam-Shalom,

   Werner

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Re: Why trust gpg4win?

2013-09-10 Thread Werner Koch
On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 09:50, ndk.cla...@gmail.com said:

 First error: USB is *not* a peer protocol. It's master-slave. FireWire
 is a peer protocol.

However, that is implemented by computers at boths ends and the software
there may have backdoors or explotable code which coult be used for all
kind of tricks.  Look only at the trend to use HID as simple driver-less
way to connect about anything to a computer.  Emulated keyboard which
sends ANSI control codes to take over your box without you noticing?

 You'd be exposed nearly to the same attack vectors. Plus some more (the
 ones that handle the extra layer), so you'd have to check more code.

So what about using that free USB stack for AVR's to implement a flash
device?  You would be able to audit about everything; flylogic even has
these nice pictures of the ATmega88 masks...


Shalom-Salam,

   Werner

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Re: The symmetric ciphers

2013-09-10 Thread Robert J. Hansen
On 9/10/2013 6:35 AM, Philipp Klaus Krause wrote:
 I wonder if it would be a good idea to have an option to combine 
 symmetric ciphers, e.g. users could state a preference list like
 this:

No.  This idea gets floated every few years and the answers never
change.  It's not a good idea.  If you look in the list archives you can
find some pretty long, detailed writeups on why.

 Assuming it takes effort a to break cipher A and effort b to break
 cipher b, this should result in effort at least max(a, b) needed to
 break A+B.

Basically, though, it's this is a naive and unfounded assumption.

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Re: Problems using 10kbit keys in GnuPG instead of 4kbit keys

2013-09-10 Thread Pete Stephenson
On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Ole Tange ta...@gnu.org wrote:
 I have not heard of the primary certification key before. Is it the
 'C' in 'usage: SCEA'?

Yes. The certification key is used when signing (more properly,
certifying) other people's public keys.

A signing key can be used for signing files or messages but the
certification key is used for signing other people's keys.

In short, it's the primary key.

 Can that be changed without losing signatures on the public key? If
 so, then the size of that can be increased slowly when needed.

Unfortunately not. It is the primary key and its properties (e.g. key
length) cannot be changed.

Cheers!
-Pete

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Re: Why trust gpg4win?

2013-09-10 Thread Jan

On 10/9/2013 14:19, Werner Koch wrote :

However, [USB] is implemented by computers at boths ends and the software
there may have backdoors or explotable code which coult be used for all
kind of tricks [...]


I am shocked! Why was USB constructed that insecure?!

On 10/9/2013 14:19, Werner Koch wrote :

So what about using that free USB stack for AVR's to implement a flash
device?  You would be able to audit about everything; flylogic even has
these nice pictures of the ATmega88 masks...


I don't understand this, what does AVR etc. mean? Is there a substituion for 
USB? I'd be grateful for an explanation.


Kind regards,
Jan


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Re: Why trust gpg4win?

2013-09-10 Thread David Smith
On 09/10/13 15:16, Jan wrote:
 I don't understand this, what does AVR etc. mean? Is there a substituion for 
 USB? I'd be grateful for an explanation.

AVR is a semiconductor manufacturer who make microcontrollers (amongst
other things).

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RE: Decrypt Issue

2013-09-10 Thread Diaz, John, A
Spoke too soon.  The wrong path was part of the problem, but I’m still having 
the issue:


Mainframe calls .bat file that calls C# application that calls second .bat file 
to call GnuPG to decrypt a file. Once decrypted, other stuff happens, e-mails 
are sent, blah, blah, blah.

Here's the issue: When the mainframe calls the .bat file to start the process, 
the decryption returns:
Decrypt error :gpg: armor header: Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (AIX)
gpg: public key is 07F7097A
gpg: encrypted with ELG-E key, ID 07F7097A
gpg: decryption failed: secret key not available




If I RDP into the server with the credentials specified in the mainframe JCL, I 
see this from the decrypt:

gpg: armor header: Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (AIX)



gpg: public key is 07F7097A

gpg: using subkey 07F7097A instead of primary key AB96877A

gpg: using subkey 07F7097A instead of primary key AB96877A

gpg: encrypted with 2048-bit ELG key, ID 07F7097A, created 2007-05-25

  FMCSFTPKey e-mail address

gpg: AES256 encrypted data

gpg: original file name='DE-ETE-090313'



What do I need to do, or have the owners of the encrypted data do, to resolve 
this?



From: Paul R. Ramer [mailto:free10...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 12:46 AM
To: Diaz, John, A
Cc: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
Subject: RE: Decrypt Issue

Diaz, John, A jd...@azdes.govmailto:jd...@azdes.gov wrote:

Paul, got it figured out.  Programmer too stupid.  The path to gpg.exe had 
changed, and I didn't catch it.

-Original Message-
From: Paul R. Ramer [mailto:free10...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 2:22 PM
To: Diaz, John, A
Cc: gnupg-users@gnupg.orgmailto:gnupg-users@gnupg.org
Subject: Re: Decrypt Issue

On 09/04/2013 01:54 PM, Diaz, John, A wrote:

Mainframe calls .bat file that calls C# application that calls second .bat file 
to call GnuPG to decrypt a file. Once decrypted, other stuff happens, e-mails 
are sent, blah, blah, blah.

Here's the issue: When the mainframe calls the .bat file to start the process, 
the decryption returns:
Decrypt error :gpg: armor header: Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (AIX)
gpg: public key is 07F7097A
gpg: encrypted with ELG-E key, ID 07F7097A
gpg:

decryption failed: secret key not available

if I list the keys on the server that this is running I see the key listed.

Here's the goofy part: If I login to the server with the credentials that the 
mainframe uses to call the first .bat file, and manually run the .bat file that 
starts the whole process, it runs correctly.

Hello John,

When you say that you log in to the server,  are you logging into a user 
account on the server?  And do you get a command prompt (i.e. you are ssh-ing 
into your server)?

Cheers,

--Paul

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Cheers,

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Re: The symmetric ciphers

2013-09-10 Thread Josef Schneider
On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Robert J. Hansen r...@sixdemonbag.orgwrote:

  Assuming it takes effort a to break cipher A and effort b to break
  cipher b, this should result in effort at least max(a, b) needed to
  break A+B.

 Basically, though, it's this is a naive and unfounded assumption.


 Why? Assuming the Keys are not related (e.g. by creating random keys and
then encrypting them both with RSA) this is safer, assuming the attacker
can crack one of the two symmetric ciphers but not RSA.
If you use the same/related Keys for both encryptions and/or the ciphers
don't interact somehow (like when using ROT-13 two times) it is indeed less
secure!
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Re: message digest for signed emails

2013-09-10 Thread Daniel Kahn Gillmor
On 09/10/2013 09:12 AM, Adam Gold wrote:

 My gpg.conf contains the following lines:

 default-preference-list SHA512 SHA256 SHA384 SHA224 SHA1 AES256 AES192 AES 
 CAST5 3DES ZLIB BZIP2 ZIP Uncompressed
 personal-digest-preferences SHA512 SHA256 SHA384 SHA224 SHA1

the lines above look like they indicate your preferences as you describe
them.

 personal-cipher-preferences AES256 AES192 AES CAST5 3DES
 personal-compress-preferences ZLIB BZIP2 ZIP Uncompressed
 cert-digest-algo SHA512
 s2k-cipher-algo AES256
 s2k-digest-algo SHA512
 s2k-count 65011712

these lines aren't relevant for data signatures.

 I appreciate there are some lines there not directly related to email
 signature message digests but at least lines 1 and 3 should set the default
 order as specified.  If I generate a new key and then check the preferences
 (--edit-key ID, showpref) it does indeed reflect the above order.  However
 if I send a signed email, it always starts with 'Hash: SHA1'.

gpg is not a mail user agent.  what are you using to send mail?  how is
it connected to gpg?  Your original message claims:

X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 15.0

 One additional point: if I use --clearsign for a non-email related document,
 this will employ the SHA512 digest.  Why the discrepancy?  What do I need to
 do to change it on my email?

You need to provide more details about your mail user agent and how it
interacts with GnuPG -- it sounds like the behavior is being introduced
there.

--dkg



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Upgrading keys to larger than 1024

2013-09-10 Thread AdamC
I have keys that I have used (sparingly) since 2004. This is a 1024
keysize. That keypair has a few signatures through key signing.

What is the best approach to upgrading keys to 4096? Is it just create a
new keypair and then go to lots of key signing events again (pain), or is
there a way to do this with my current keys?

TIA
Adam

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Re: Upgrading keys to larger than 1024

2013-09-10 Thread Daniel Kahn Gillmor
On 09/10/2013 12:47 PM, AdamC wrote:
 I have keys that I have used (sparingly) since 2004. This is a 1024
 keysize. That keypair has a few signatures through key signing.
 
 What is the best approach to upgrading keys to 4096? Is it just create a
 new keypair and then go to lots of key signing events again (pain), or is
 there a way to do this with my current keys?

There's no way to directly upgrade if your primary key is weaker than
you'd like.

You should create a new keypair and go out in the world and meet people
who will sign your key.  it doesn't have to be a pain :)

Ana wrote up some good suggestions about how to do a key transition:

  http://ekaia.org/blog/2009/05/10/creating-new-gpgkey/

Regards,

--dkg



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Re: Should the use of multiple UID per key be discouraged?

2013-09-10 Thread Daniel Kahn Gillmor
On 09/10/2013 03:01 PM, Philipp Klaus Krause wrote:
 GPG supports the feature of having multiple UIDs per key.
 However this requires special care of anyone signing such a key.
 AFAIK, there is no really user-friendly, and definitely no
 newbie-friendly way to do so. 

Please try out monkeysign (version 1.0 is in debian testing right now).
 It targets exactly this problem:

  http://web.monkeysphere.info/monkeysign/

If you think it is not user-friendly enough, the developers are active
and friendly folks, and they would be happy to receive suggestions for
new features.

 Would it be a good idea to discourage people from having multiple UIDs
 per key, and encourage them to create a separate key per UID instead?

I do not think this discouragement would be a good idea, since moving to
multiple keys imposes other costs and difficulties.  There are good
reasons to use separate keys for separate identities (e.g. if you want
to have  key you can hand over to your job when you leave there, or if
you want to operate under a pseudonym).  but there are also good reasons
to use one key for multiple identities (simpler key management, more
direct paths through the WoT for people who know you under one alias or
another).

There are tradeoffs involved in key and identity management, and people
need to be free to make the tradeoffs that make sense for them.

Regards,

--dkg



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Re: The symmetric ciphers

2013-09-10 Thread Robert J. Hansen
On 09/10/2013 11:10 AM, Josef Schneider wrote:
 Why? Assuming the Keys are not related (e.g. by creating random keys 
 and then encrypting them both with RSA) this is safer, assuming the 
 attacker can crack one of the two symmetric ciphers but not RSA.

I repeat my earlier message:

 If you look in the list archives you can find some pretty long, 
 detailed writeups on why.

It takes you about thirty seconds to type a message.  To fully answer
your question would require me to spend about an hour crafting an
answer.  Since your question has been answered *at length* in the
archives, I'm not going to answer your question.  I'm going to refer you
to the archives and save myself an hour.

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Should the use of multiple UID per key be discouraged?

2013-09-10 Thread Philipp Klaus Krause
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

GPG supports the feature of having multiple UIDs per key.
However this requires special care of anyone signing such a key.
AFAIK, there is no really user-friendly, and definitely no
newbie-friendly way to do so. IMO this makes it much harder to expand
the web of trust.
Would it be a good idea to discourage people from having multiple UIDs
per key, and encourage them to create a separate key per UID instead?

Philipp
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Icedove - http://www.enigmail.net/

iEYEARECAAYFAlIvbIYACgkQbtUV+xsoLpqLAQCgnwIrB/E/Q1tcCyG8GvjvWcOX
vU8AoOElrV2BTmFg3P33dLCwvgH7H6p5
=iAg1
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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RE: message digest for signed emails

2013-09-10 Thread Adam Gold
 -Original Message-
 From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor [mailto:d...@fifthhorseman.net]
 Sent: 10 September 2013 15:59
 To: Adam Gold
 Cc: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
 Subject: Re: message digest for signed emails
 
 gpg is not a mail user agent.  what are you using to send mail?  how is it
 connected to gpg?  Your original message claims:
 
 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 15.0
 

This message was sent using Outlook however my gpg mail is setup in debian 
wheezy.  I was using the thunderbird equivalent but I've switched to mutt with 
gpg/MIME support as I want to use a console based app.

  One additional point: if I use --clearsign for a non-email related
  document, this will employ the SHA512 digest.  Why the discrepancy?
  What do I need to do to change it on my email?
 
 You need to provide more details about your mail user agent and how it
 interacts with GnuPG -- it sounds like the behavior is being introduced there.
 
   --dkg

To enable gpg support in mutt I copied /usr/share/doc/mutt/examples/gpg.rc to 
~/.mutt and then added 'source ~/.mutt/gpg.rc' to the mutt config file.  I also 
added to the config a number of lines as per here: http://pastebin.com/t17HcrCS

If I send a mail to myself in mutt I get the following in the received message:

===
[-- PGP output follows (current time: Tue 10 Sep 2013 18:59:09 BST) --]
gpg: Signature made Tue 10 Sep 2013 18:58:08 BST using RSA key ID 00583A4C
gpg: Good signature from Adam Gold
gpg: WARNING: This key is not certified with a trusted signature!
gpg:  There is no indication that the signature belongs to the owner.
Primary key fingerprint: [ ]
[-- End of PGP output --]
[-- The following data is signed --]
test
[-- End of signed data --]
=

This doesn't show what the hash is so I saved the attached signature.asc file 
and ran 'gpg -v' against the actual email saved in my email directory.  The 
following was returned:

===
gpg: Signature made Tue 10 Sep 2013 18:58:08 BST using RSA key ID 
gpg: using PGP trust model
gpg: BAD signature from Adam Gold
gpg: textmode signature, digest algorithm SHA1
===

I guess the bad signature is because the signature.asc file is not meant to be 
detached from the email and then checked against the email.  However, as you'll 
see, the digest is still SHA1.  Perhaps this is unreliable too but I can't see 
another way when viewing a signed message in mutt to ascertain the digest.

FYI: it mentions here that mutt support SHA2: 
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GPGMigration

I really appreciate you taking the time to look at this.  If there is any 
specific information I have omitted, please let me know.  Alternatively if you 
don't mind, I can send you directly a signed email from my mutt account (I 
don't want to reveal it publicly) and you could see what digest is being used.


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Re: message digest for signed emails

2013-09-10 Thread Daniel Kahn Gillmor
On 09/10/2013 02:23 PM, Adam Gold wrote:

 To enable gpg support in mutt I copied /usr/share/doc/mutt/examples/gpg.rc to 
 ~/.mutt and then added 'source ~/.mutt/gpg.rc' to the mutt config file.  I 
 also added to the config a number of lines as per here: 
 http://pastebin.com/t17HcrCS
 
 If I send a mail to myself in mutt I get the following in the received 
 message:
 
 ===
 [-- PGP output follows (current time: Tue 10 Sep 2013 18:59:09 BST) --]
 gpg: Signature made Tue 10 Sep 2013 18:58:08 BST using RSA key ID 00583A4C
 gpg: Good signature from Adam Gold
 gpg: WARNING: This key is not certified with a trusted signature!
 gpg:  There is no indication that the signature belongs to the owner.
 Primary key fingerprint: [ ]
 [-- End of PGP output --]
 [-- The following data is signed --]
 test
 [-- End of signed data --]
 =
 
 This doesn't show what the hash is so I saved the attached signature.asc file 
 and ran 'gpg -v' against the actual email saved in my email directory.  The 
 following was returned:
 
 ===
 gpg: Signature made Tue 10 Sep 2013 18:58:08 BST using RSA key ID 
 gpg: using PGP trust model
 gpg: BAD signature from Adam Gold
 gpg: textmode signature, digest algorithm SHA1
 ===
 
 I guess the bad signature is because the signature.asc file is not meant to 
 be detached from the email and then checked against the email.  However, as 
 you'll see, the digest is still SHA1.  Perhaps this is unreliable too but I 
 can't see another way when viewing a signed message in mutt to ascertain the 
 digest.
 
 FYI: it mentions here that mutt support SHA2: 
 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GPGMigration
 
 I really appreciate you taking the time to look at this.  If there is any 
 specific information I have omitted, please let me know.  Alternatively if 
 you don't mind, I can send you directly a signed email from my mutt account 
 (I don't want to reveal it publicly) and you could see what digest is being 
 used.

sorry, i don't know much about mutt or how it integrates with gpg.
maybe someone else on the list can help you with that, or you could ask
on a mailing list that's dedicated to mutt?

--dkg



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Re: Why trust gpg4win?

2013-09-10 Thread Jan

10/9/2013 14:19, Werner Koch wrote :

So what about using that free USB stack for AVR's to implement a flash
device?  You would be able to audit about everything; flylogic even has
these nice pictures of the ATmega88 masks...


10/9/2013  16:33, David Smith wrote:

AVR is a semiconductor manufacturer who make microcontrollers (amongst
other things).


Thanks for the answers. Did you refer to the following?

http://www.fourwalledcubicle.com/files/LUFA/Doc/120219/html/index.html
http://www.flylogic.net/blog/?p=23

How could I implement a flash device? Do you mean I need to take some 
existing USB device created by AVR and replace its firmware by LUFA or 
something like that? Could I use that modified USB device on every PC or 
operation system?


Kind regards,
Jan 



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