Re: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 17:28:39 -0600 John Clizbe articulated: > >> Interestingly enough, your "Sig Delimiter" is bonked. > > > > That is an unfortunate consequence of signing my message with GnuPG; > > all lines lose trailing spaces and any line beginning with a dash > > gets prefixed with a dash and a space. > > That is part of the OpenPGP standard RFC 4880. Trailing space removed > and line endings canonicalized to CR-LF. Lines beginning with a > hyphen/dash are dash-space escaped "- " in order to avoid confusion > with OpenPGP message headers. > > There used to be a bug in the Mozilla mailnews code that left "-- > "alone, but stripped the space from "- -- ". I think it was fixed > some time ago. Thanks, I thought that, that behavior was specified somewhere, but I was not sure of the RFC the specified it. -- Jerry ♔ Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ ___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnupg.org http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
Re: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
Jerry wrote: > On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 02:23:04 + > MFPA articulated: > >> That is an unfortunate consequence of signing my message with GnuPG; >> all lines lose trailing spaces and any line beginning with a dash gets >> prefixed with a dash and a space. > > That is because you are using "inline" rather than "mime" for signing. > The "inline"method has been for the most part deprecated. You might > want to give serious thought to switching your signing method. I always get a chuckle every time I read someone writing that inline signing is somehow "deprecated." Strangely enough, the only place I can find the origination of such an idea is in the PGP/MIME RFC 3156 itself which strikes me as somewhat self-serving. Deprecation is not mentioned in the OpenPGP standard RFC 4880. I use PGP/MIME when I know a mailing list supports it and inline when I know it doesn't. I use PGP/MIME if I know the recipient's MUA supports it, inline otherwise. On the Netiquette part of this thread, I too set a Reply-To header that seems at least one person regularly ignores. Please don't CC me on list replies. One copy is enough. -- John P. Clizbe Inet: John ( a ) Enigmail DAWT net FSF Assoc #995 / FSFE Fellow #1797 hkp://keyserver.gingerbear.net or mailto:pgp-public-k...@gingerbear.net?subject=HELP Q:"Just how do the residents of Haiku, Hawai'i hold conversations?" A:"An odd melody / island voices on the winds / surplus of vowels" ___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnupg.org http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
Re: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
MFPA wrote: > Hi > On Monday 30 January 2012 at 2:13:48 AM, Jerry wrote: >> On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 01:52:44 + MFPA articulated: >>> Looking through recent postings, the signature >>> delimiter seems to appear in about half of the >>> messages on this list. >>> - -- >>> Best regards >>> MFPA >>> mailto:expires2...@rocketmail.com > >> Interestingly enough, your "Sig Delimiter" is bonked. > > That is an unfortunate consequence of signing my message with GnuPG; > all lines lose trailing spaces and any line beginning with a dash gets > prefixed with a dash and a space. That is part of the OpenPGP standard RFC 4880. Trailing space removed and line endings canonicalized to CR-LF. Lines beginning with a hyphen/dash are dash-space escaped "- " in order to avoid confusion with OpenPGP message headers. There used to be a bug in the Mozilla mailnews code that left "-- "alone, but stripped the space from "- -- ". I think it was fixed some time ago. -- John P. Clizbe Inet: John ( a ) Enigmail DAWT net FSF Assoc #995 / FSFE Fellow #1797 hkp://keyserver.gingerbear.net or mailto:pgp-public-k...@gingerbear.net?subject=HELP ___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnupg.org http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
Re: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 15:27:37 +0100 Peter Lebbing articulated: > On 30/01/12 12:27, Jerry wrote: > > Now, thanks to you and a few other morons, > > For crying out loud, stop crying out loud. Get over it. People will > CC you. Stop bothering us with your complaints every time. We all, > including you, have better things to do with our time than repeating > this annyoing discussion ad infinitum I have all ready updated my sieve rules to include this forum. I hadn't bothered doing it before because for the most part, the posters on this forum are intelligent enough to know that you need only reply to the group unless specifically requested to do otherwise. Since this is an OPT-IN forum, the need to CC in order to reach a poster is not required. Obviously, some posters prefer to clutter up other readers with superfluous garbage. > While I'm at it, I might point you towards DJB's Mail-Followup-To > header. It might help us all to be freed of this endless litany. There is no such header as Mail-Followup-To. Dan Bernstein does not specify the email standards. RFC 5322 (and earlier, RFC 2822 and RFC 822) does. I thought you would have been aware of that. -- Jerry ♔ Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ ___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnupg.org http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
Re: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
On 30/01/12 12:27, Jerry wrote: > Now, thanks to you and a few other morons, For crying out loud, stop crying out loud. Get over it. People will CC you. Stop bothering us with your complaints every time. We all, including you, have better things to do with our time than repeating this annyoing discussion ad infinitum. While I'm at it, I might point you towards DJB's Mail-Followup-To header. It might help us all to be freed of this endless litany. Peter. -- I use the GNU Privacy Guard (GnuPG) in combination with Enigmail. You can send me encrypted mail if you want some privacy. My key is available at http://wwwhome.cs.utwente.nl/~lebbing/pubkey.txt ___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnupg.org http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
Re: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
> That is because you are using "inline" rather than "mime" for signing. > The "inline"method has been for the most part deprecated. You might > want to give serious thought to switching your signing method. Which is, why I don't understand why Enigmail still uses inline as a default setting… Cheers, steve signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail ___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnupg.org http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
Re: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 01:45:01 -0800 Doug Barton articulated: > On 01/30/2012 01:34, Jerry wrote: > > On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 02:23:04 + > > MFPA articulated: > > > >> That is an unfortunate consequence of signing my message with > >> GnuPG; all lines lose trailing spaces and any line beginning with > >> a dash gets prefixed with a dash and a space. > > > > That is because you are using "inline" rather than "mime" for > > signing. The "inline"method has been for the most part deprecated. > > Jerry, you've been around long enough to know that A) that's not true, > and B) bringing it up only leads to the same rathole discussion over > and over again. > > > You might > > want to give serious thought to switching your signing method. > > > > By the way, as clearly stated at the bottom of my post, I do not > > require or want a CC'd copy. > > A) how unfortunate then that your signature gets clipped when I > reply :) or > B) Yeah, that's a silly rathole too. If you don't want the dupe, you > go change your mailman settings to fix it. Meanwhile, including the > poster in the reply goes back from before e-mail was a thing, and > often helps carry on the conversation when the list is slow. > > ... and now we've come full circle Unfortunately, eliminating dupes, aka "CC'd" mail is not that easy. I use to have a sieve rule that eliminated mail that was both sent to a mailing list and CC'd to me. I even went as far as having the superfluous copy sent to SpamCop thinking that perhaps the sender might get the idea that I didn't not want and specifically requested not to receive multiple copies of the same draft. Unfortunately, over the years I have not keep that rule updated. Now, thanks to you and a few other morons, I now have been sufficiently motivated to update it. Thanks Doug, it is not yet 6:30am and I have all ready added to my day's agenda. -- Jerry ♔ Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ ___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnupg.org http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
Re: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
On 01/30/2012 01:34, Jerry wrote: > On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 02:23:04 + > MFPA articulated: > >> That is an unfortunate consequence of signing my message with GnuPG; >> all lines lose trailing spaces and any line beginning with a dash gets >> prefixed with a dash and a space. > > That is because you are using "inline" rather than "mime" for signing. > The "inline"method has been for the most part deprecated. Jerry, you've been around long enough to know that A) that's not true, and B) bringing it up only leads to the same rathole discussion over and over again. > You might > want to give serious thought to switching your signing method. > > By the way, as clearly stated at the bottom of my post, I do not > require or want a CC'd copy. A) how unfortunate then that your signature gets clipped when I reply :) or B) Yeah, that's a silly rathole too. If you don't want the dupe, you go change your mailman settings to fix it. Meanwhile, including the poster in the reply goes back from before e-mail was a thing, and often helps carry on the conversation when the list is slow. ... and now we've come full circle Doug -- It's always a long day; 86400 doesn't fit into a short. Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ ___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnupg.org http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
Re: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 02:23:04 + MFPA articulated: > That is an unfortunate consequence of signing my message with GnuPG; > all lines lose trailing spaces and any line beginning with a dash gets > prefixed with a dash and a space. That is because you are using "inline" rather than "mime" for signing. The "inline"method has been for the most part deprecated. You might want to give serious thought to switching your signing method. By the way, as clearly stated at the bottom of my post, I do not require or want a CC'd copy. -- Jerry ♔ Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnupg.org http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
Re: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
On 30/01/12 03:23, MFPA wrote: >> Interestingly enough, your "Sig Delimiter" is bonked. > > That is an unfortunate consequence of signing my message with GnuPG; > all lines lose trailing spaces and any line beginning with a dash gets > prefixed with a dash and a space. Or: how a boring off-topic conversation got on-topic. Enigmail still recognises the "bonked" :) sig delimiter and correctly omits the signature when replying. That is, I assume it is Enigmail doing it for me, it seems the most logical conclusion. Could also be Thunderbird itself. Peter. PS: I wouldn't mind if this silly conversation were over. -- I use the GNU Privacy Guard (GnuPG) in combination with Enigmail. You can send me encrypted mail if you want some privacy. My key is available at http://wwwhome.cs.utwente.nl/~lebbing/pubkey.txt ___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnupg.org http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
Re: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Hi On Monday 30 January 2012 at 2:13:48 AM, in , Jerry wrote: > On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 01:52:44 + MFPA articulated: >> Looking through recent postings, the signature >> delimiter seems to appear in about half of the >> messages on this list. >> - -- >> Best regards >> MFPA >> mailto:expires2...@rocketmail.com > Interestingly enough, your "Sig Delimiter" is bonked. That is an unfortunate consequence of signing my message with GnuPG; all lines lose trailing spaces and any line beginning with a dash gets prefixed with a dash and a space. - -- Best regards MFPAmailto:expires2...@rocketmail.com A wise man once said ..."I don't know." -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQCVAwUBTyX/GKipC46tDG5pAQpVOAP/eJRNC5e+76P46c9WsPUT7HXZXkYdTu2e BSOxN2cSrG9FCkQ3hQ6NMjj70rIpWBHNxCrEKT9N2X3+aecCdOudiVdfwkCreYWl sVYScS6F0L3K9/exfxq7jk+jRKj/RdHKC5uOCeDkur5gSQ5gZ4bnXAgatzy94Ow+ 7yn/B9jogxk= =9K8M -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnupg.org http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
Re: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 01:52:44 + MFPA articulated: > On Monday 30 January 2012 at 1:19:57 AM, in > , > gerry lowry +1 705 250-0112 alliston ontario canada wrote: > > > > > AFAIK, there is no such thing as a "standard" signature > > AFAIK. > > But there is a standard signature delimiter or cut mark. Many mail > clients cut the message at that delimiter when replying, so that when > trimming quotes you don't need to delete the signature text yourself. > > > > if there were, on would expect to find it more > > consistently here gnupg-users@gnupg.org. > > Looking through recent postings, the signature delimiter seems to > appear in about half of the messages on this list. > > > - -- > Best regards > > MFPAmailto:expires2...@rocketmail.com Interestingly enough, your "Sig Delimiter" is bonked. -- Jerry ♔ Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ ___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnupg.org http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
Re: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Hi On Monday 30 January 2012 at 1:19:57 AM, in , gerry lowry +1 705 250-0112 alliston ontario canada wrote: > AFAIK, there is no such thing as a "standard" signature > AFAIK. But there is a standard signature delimiter or cut mark. Many mail clients cut the message at that delimiter when replying, so that when trimming quotes you don't need to delete the signature text yourself. > if there were, on would expect to find it more > consistently here gnupg-users@gnupg.org. Looking through recent postings, the signature delimiter seems to appear in about half of the messages on this list. - -- Best regards MFPAmailto:expires2...@rocketmail.com Raining cats and dogs is better than hailing taxis. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQCVAwUBTyX38aipC46tDG5pAQoKFQP/c09WEaG9Wwg0+UJ/G2k286gPP7E2WejC aeoKkE7f2Pm4Y+9CM06bzDO6zKbwL89wnmgMilaxbPEFI0UHXYHRhkVj1zDT5j+2 izUPB+RtQgEGVUTsL0WlHk9EAC87OHp6mIJRVOO/44oSOAagvDam0FLMvBv2QkC/ TxsCV3bTPfM= =mtla -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnupg.org http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
Re: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
On 2012-01-30 02:19, gerry lowry +1 705 250-0112 alliston ontario canada wrote: > Michael, if the few care more about being above "the many", than the needs of > "the many", > does that not lead to disparity? "The many" are not all as > knowledgeable > as the Yettos of this world ... "the many" get excluded > technologically; > technologically disparity is akin to economic disparity ... if > Warren Buffet > can reach out to "the rich", then the techie~~astute can reach out > to the > techie~~challenged. This part wraps and looks really ugly in my email client. Please fix. -- PGP: A0E4 B2D4 94E6 20EE 85BA E45B 63E4 2BD8 C58C 753A PGP: 2C23 EBFF DF1A 840D 2351 F5F5 F25B A03F 2152 36DA -- nameserver 217.79.186.148 nameserver 178.63.26.172 http://opennicproject.org/ -- No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnupg.org http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
RE: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
Dear Michael (Yetto),
M.A.Y.: "It isn't for the greater good if the onus to please the few (or the
one) is placed on the many."
Michael, if the few care more about being above "the many", than the needs of
"the many",
does that not lead to disparity? "The many" are not all as
knowledgeable
as the Yettos of this world ... "the many" get excluded
technologically;
technologically disparity is akin to economic disparity ... if Warren
Buffet
can reach out to "the rich", then the techie~~astute can reach out to
the
techie~~challenged.
Henri David Thoreau, paraphrased: "if one person is more right that her/his
neighbours,
then that person constitutes a majority of one".
-
AFAIK, there is no such thing as a "standard" signature AFAIK.
if there were, on would expect to find it more consistently here
gnupg-users@gnupg.org.
M.A.Y.: "standard sig delimiter (newline dash dash space newline)."
I'm assuming that by sig, you mean "signature" and not tagline. The following
are recent
examples of "non-standard" signatures:
__
Shalom-Salam,
Werner
--
Die Gedanken sind frei. Ausnahmen regelt ein Bundesgesetz.
__
Kind regards,
Christian
---
.
.
.
common/t-sexputil
--
1.7.8.3
__
*** Robert J. Hansen ***{ no signature } also: PGP signature
__
Cheers,
Remco
__
vedaal
__
--dkg
__
--dan
__
/Holger
__
--
FWIW
Gerry (Lowry)
___
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
Re: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 12:22:56 -0500 "gerry lowry +1 705 250-0112 alliston ontario canada" wrote: > Jerome, nay, not so my inbox looks better, rather because it's > the right thing to do for the greater good, imho. > It isn't for the greater good if the onus to please the few (or the one) is placed on the many. An example of doing the right thing for the greater good would be for you to use a standard sig delimiter (newline dash dash space newline). -- Mike "glad to be of service" Yetto signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnupg.org http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
Re: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
On 01/28/2012 04:40, Remco Rijnders wrote: > Or filter on the List-Id header perhaps. That one is always set when you > receive mail from the mail list. > > Seems easier to set such a filter than to expect the world to be trained > into sending email in your preferred way. +1 -- It's always a long day; 86400 doesn't fit into a short. Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ ___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnupg.org http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
Re: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
I read my mail in plaintext (RAND MH) from the command line, so things like quoted-printable, base64, UNICODE, HTML, etc., are all a fuss and bother. My "ask" is thus for plaintext with line breaks, trimming the quoted material down to the relevant parts, and no top-posting. I'd also vote for the list having a "reply-to" header. The above applies to all mailing lists, including here. I can cope; this is just my ask. Please and thank you, --dan ___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnupg.org http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
Re: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
> FWIW, I'm a masochist ... my inbox has several thousand recent messages. I suggest trying procmail or similar. cat ~/.forward |/usr/local/bin/procmail cd ~/mail ; ls -1 Inbox| wc -l ; find . -type d | wc -l 117 461 Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, & indent with "> ". Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. @Yahoo.com mail rejected @berklix. Get a non yahoo address. ___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnupg.org http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
RE: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
Jerome, nay, not so my inbox looks better, rather because it's the right thing to do for the greater good, imho. Peace, Gerry __ Gerry Lowry, Partner http://twitter.com/gerryLowry1947 Ability Business Computer Services ~~ Because it's your Business, our Experience Counts! 68 John W. Taylor Avenue Alliston Ontario Canada L9R 0E1 705.250.0112 gerry.lo...@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com https://www.gerrylowryprogrammer.com http://abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com ___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnupg.org http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
Re: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
On 2012-01-28 16:57, gerry lowry +1 705 250-0112 alliston ontario canada wrote: [snip a bunch of stuff about how you want us to change our emailing habits so your inbox looks better] It's your inbox. -- PGP: A0E4 B2D4 94E6 20EE 85BA E45B 63E4 2BD8 C58C 753A PGP: 2C23 EBFF DF1A 840D 2351 F5F5 F25B A03F 2152 36DA -- nameserver 217.79.186.148 nameserver 178.63.26.172 http://opennicproject.org/ -- No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnupg.org http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
RE: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
Hi Peter (Lebbing) Depending on one's point of view, the e-mail client UI is either "behind the scenes" or "the scene". My PoV is that everything that is necessary to display the e-mail to my vision, is "behind the scenes". That includes all activity from start to end, including what the e-mail client does to extract raw text (headers/body) and make it look pretty to my eyes. The UI is "the scene" imho. Peter, remember please, most end users are unlikely to have your in depth appreciation of the RFC universe. OTOH, most end users can click on the (date received/From/Subject/To/et cetera) columns to easily, efficiently, and quickly rearrange their inbox in a new order. Compare for example the current "Why hashed ..." thread ... From To Doug Barton Robert J. Hansen Jerome Baum Doug Barton Doug Barton Jerome Baum FWIW, I'm a masochist ... my inbox has several thousand recent messages. If the above messages were scattered through my inbox, but looked like this: From To Doug Barton gnupg-users@gnupg.org Jerome Baum gnupg-users@gnupg.org Doug Barton gnupg-users@gnupg.org I could easily pull them, as well as other gnupg-users@gnupg.org, together simply by clicking on the "To:" column header. Gerry P.S.: FWIW, gnupg-users@gnupg.org is a "list", not zig zag exchanges among individuals. ___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnupg.org http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
Re: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
On 28/01/12 12:49, gerry lowry +1 705 250-0112 alliston ontario canada wrote:
> (d) To:
> Cc: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
> [...]
> (d) is the worst form imho because e-mails without a To: component
> are the most likely to end up in one's spam folder; in some cases,
> depending on one's isp, such e-mails might not even be delivered
> to one's client pc, i.e., they might be rejected at some mail
> server's gateway.
This is a heuristic: RFC2822/RFC5322 do not require the field to be present, but
if there isn't one, it increases the probability the mail is spam. Rejecting a
mail for not having this field, while the rest doesn't look very spammy, is
overly zealous, and I would be upset with the person who installed such a filter
on my mailbox.
In the default SpamAssassin setup, it seems not having a To:-field is one point
towards the 5 points needed to be marked as spam. Note that other aspects might
deduct points and you can end up negative (which is a good thing).
> FWIW, e-mail does not really have a To:, Cc:, or Bcc: field;
> all three are embellishments added by the e-mail client software.
> Behind the scenes, To:, Cc:, and Bcc: are ALL simply RCPT-TO.
You are confusing different layers. SMTP doesn't care about those fields, but
the "Internet Message Format" RFC's, 2822 and 5322 do. You are confusing
envelope with letter. Furthermore, SMTP genuinely doesn't care about those
fields, they are not mapped to RCPT TO:. RCPT TO: is part of the envelope, and
handed to SMTP, it does not deduct them from the fields. The mapping is these
days usually performed by the e-mail client software, which you did not consider
to be behind the scenes, apparently.
Peter.
PS: You should look for a better solution to filter/order your mails into their
proper locations if your current solution cares about order of addressees. There
is no order in those, and any order needed by a filter is IMHO a bug.
Personally, I use the Sieve language to tell my IMAP server what to do :).
if address ["to", "cc", "bcc", "resent-to"] "gnupg-users.org" {
fileinto "GnuPG-Users";
}
This is a deliberately suboptimal filter; I just use the List-ID as Remco
suggested.
--
I use the GNU Privacy Guard (GnuPG) in combination with Enigmail.
You can send me encrypted mail if you want some privacy.
My key is available at http://wwwhome.cs.utwente.nl/~lebbing/pubkey.txt
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RE: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
Hello Remco and Jerome,
FWIW, with Microsoft Outlook Express under WinXP, to view your responses, I
must explicitly open (Remco's 666 byte/Jerome's 549
byte) attached body documents in an editor;
alternately, I can display the message properties:
Alt+Enter==> display properties
Ctrl+Tab ==> move to the details page
Alt+M==> show message source
Alt+Space, x ==> maximize
Page Down==> to begin viewing your actual reply.
With Microsoft Outlook 2010, you messages appear more easily BUT are also shown
as attachments.
Thank you both for replying:
Remco "Or filter on the List-Id header perhaps. That one is always set when
you
receive mail from the mail list."
{GL} this would work, BUT I already have very many filters for other purposes,
plus, if others would address messages as per my
suggestion, the filter would be unnecessary; likely many users have no idea as
to how to set a filter.
Remco "(Also, apply such a filter then before any spam blocking on empty To:
lines etc.)"
{GL} Remco, you've missed my point ... spam blocking also occurs for many
individuals at or before your incoming e-mail ever gets
downloaded to their computer.
Jerome "FWIW, (MIME) e-mail does really have a To: and a Cc: field. It also has
an implied Bcc: field (not on To: or Cc:). Behind the scenes, To:, Cc:,
and Bcc: are ALL simply FIELDS."
{GL} is that not what, for all intents and purposes, i wrote?
> FWIW, e-mail does not really have a To:, Cc:, or Bcc: field;
> all three are embellishments added by the e-mail client software.
> Behind the scenes, To:, Cc:, and Bcc: are ALL simply RCPT-TO.
if the sender's e-mail client did not add the FIELDS, the recipient would
see NOTHING for To:, Cc:, Bcc.
if the sender is NOT using an e-mail client (i.e., sending manually),
she/he would
(a) type RCPT-TO x
for each intended recipient. E-mail client software also must insert
RCPT-TO.
She/he could add the FIELDS to the beginning of the message body;
FIELDS do not in the raw data exist outside of the message body.
Cheers,
Gerry
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Re: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
On 2012-01-28 12:49, gerry lowry +1 705 250-0112 alliston ontario canada wrote: > FWIW, e-mail does not really have a To:, Cc:, or Bcc: field; > all three are embellishments added by the e-mail client software. > Behind the scenes, To:, Cc:, and Bcc: are ALL simply RCPT-TO. FWIW, (MIME) e-mail does really have a To: and a Cc: field. It also has an implied Bcc: field (not on To: or Cc:). Behind the scenes, To:, Cc:, and Bcc: are ALL simply FIELDS. -- PGP: A0E4 B2D4 94E6 20EE 85BA E45B 63E4 2BD8 C58C 753A PGP: 2C23 EBFF DF1A 840D 2351 F5F5 F25B A03F 2152 36DA -- nameserver 217.79.186.148 nameserver 178.63.26.172 http://opennicproject.org/ -- No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnupg.org http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
Re: [META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 06:49:27AM -0500, gerry wrote in <005801ccddb3$30d9b400$928d1c00$@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com>: gnupg-users@gnupg.org This is not directed at any one individual; also, other mailing lists have the same problem imho. Ideally, (my ideal), the generic "one" would simply address e-mails to gnupg-users@gnupg.org as (a)To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org nothing more, nothing less. Such an addressing scheme makes it easy to filter and order gnupg-users@gnupg.org e-mails. Or filter on the List-Id header perhaps. That one is always set when you receive mail from the mail list. Seems easier to set such a filter than to expect the world to be trained into sending email in your preferred way. (Also, apply such a filter then before any spam blocking on empty To: lines etc.) Cheers, Remco signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnupg.org http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
[META] please start To: with gnupg-users@gnupg.org, i.e.: To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
gnupg-users@gnupg.org This is not directed at any one individual; also, other mailing lists have the same problem imho. Ideally, (my ideal), the generic "one" would simply address e-mails to gnupg-users@gnupg.org as (a)To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org nothing more, nothing less. Such an addressing scheme makes it easy to filter and order gnupg-users@gnupg.org e-mails. Instead, there's substantial variation, examples: (b) To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org Cc: x...@y.tld (c) To: x...@y.tld Cc: gnupg-users@gnupg.org (d) To: Cc: gnupg-users@gnupg.org (e) To: x...@y.tld, gnupg-users@gnupg.org (f) To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org, x...@y.tld (b) and (f) are not such a problem for filtering and/or ordering because they are similar to (a). (c), (d), and (e) do not filter/order well. (d) is the worst form imho because e-mails without a To: component are the most likely to end up in one's spam folder; in some cases, depending on one's isp, such e-mails might not even be delivered to one's client pc, i.e., they might be rejected at some mail server's gateway. FWIW, e-mail does not really have a To:, Cc:, or Bcc: field; all three are embellishments added by the e-mail client software. Behind the scenes, To:, Cc:, and Bcc: are ALL simply RCPT-TO. Please, and thank you. Regards, Gerry __ Gerry Lowry, Partner http://twitter.com/gerryLowry1947 Ability Business Computer Services ~~ Because it's your Business, our Experience Counts! 68 John W. Taylor Avenue Alliston Ontario Canada L9R 0E1 705.250.0112 gerry.lo...@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com https://www.gerrylowryprogrammer.com http://abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com ___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnupg.org http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
