Re: Exporting/ importing changes expiration date of subkeys...

[MFPA]

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Hash: SHA512

Hi


On Thursday 15 November 2018 at 10:57:19 AM, in
, gnupgpacker
wrote:-


> Indeed, but better link:
> https://www.gpg4win.org/links.html

Better in that it works. Worse in that it is longer. (-;


- --
Best regards

MFPA  

Life is far too important a thing ever to talk seriously about
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Exporting/ importing changes expiration date of subkeys...

[gnupgpacker]

Hello,

> MFPA
> I see https://www.gpg4win.org/links.htm has a link to gpgrelay.
> Some of the links on that page are marked "outdated", but 
> not this one.

Indeed, but better link:
https://www.gpg4win.org/links.html 

;) Regards!


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Re: Exporting/ importing changes expiration date of subkeys...

[Werner Koch]

On Wed, 14 Nov 2018 16:45, 2017-r3sgs86x8e-lists-gro...@riseup.net said:

> http://sites.inka.de/tesla/gpgrelay.html. A possible working link is
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/gpgrelay/.

Thanks, I fixed it.


Shalom-Salam,

   Werner

-- 
Die Gedanken sind frei.  Ausnahmen regelt ein Bundesgesetz.


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Re: Exporting/ importing changes expiration date of subkeys...

[Daniel Kahn Gillmor]

On Wed 2018-11-14 15:45:34 +, MFPA wrote:
> The broken link is at https://gnupg.org/software/swlist.html#sec-1-23.
> The link that returns the 403 error is
> http://sites.inka.de/tesla/gpgrelay.html. A possible working link is
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/gpgrelay/.

thanks, i've reported this as https://dev.gnupg.org/T4254 so that
hopefully someone resposible for the web site will actually fix it.

feel free to make bug reports like this directly to
https://dev.gnupg.org/ in the future!

  --dkg



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Re: Exporting/ importing changes expiration date of subkeys...

[MFPA]

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Hash: SHA512

Hi


On Wednesday 14 November 2018 at 9:52:56 AM, in
, Daniel Kahn Gillmor wrote:-


> Can you please point to the specific URL where there
> is a broken link?

The broken link is at https://gnupg.org/software/swlist.html#sec-1-23.
The link that returns the 403 error is
http://sites.inka.de/tesla/gpgrelay.html. A possible working link is
https://sourceforge.net/projects/gpgrelay/.



> Or, even better, offer a patch against the git repo
> cloned from
> https://dev.gnupg.org/source/gnupg-doc.git ?  I think
> you're talking
> about web/software/swlist.org in that repository.

Sorry, I don't know how.


- --
Best regards

MFPA  

Always borrow money from a pessimist - they don't expect it back
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Re: Exporting/ importing changes expiration date of subkeys...

[MFPA]

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Hi


On Wednesday 14 November 2018 at 9:58:37 AM, in
, Daniel Kahn Gillmor wrote:-

> all the more reason to move away from it then.
> security software that
> deals with complex data structures passed around the
> public internet
> needs to be actively maintained :(

I see https://www.gpg4win.org/links.htm has a link to gpgrelay. Some
of the links on that page are marked "outdated", but not this one.


- --
Best regards

MFPA  

Everyone makes mistakes. It is what you do afterwards that counts.
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Re: Exporting/ importing changes expiration date of subkeys...

[MFPA]

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Hi


On Tuesday 13 November 2018 at 8:15:46 AM, in
, gnupgpacker
wrote:-

> Keys with this structure are created with GPGkeys
> (part of GPGshell for
> Windows v3.78)

For reference, I have attached an image of the GPGkeys key generation
window with defaults selected. GPGshell for Windows is freeware but
not open source, no longer maintained, and it's website
(www.jumaros.de/rsoft/indes.html) is dead.

- --
Best regards

MFPA  

The man who really wants to do something finds a way,
the other finds an excuse.
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Re: Exporting/ importing changes expiration date of subkeys...

[Daniel Kahn Gillmor]

On Wed 2018-11-14 08:43:19 +0100, gnupgpacker wrote:
> Did try it several times, but no response. Development seems to be stopped
> since 2005...
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/gpgrelay/files/ 

all the more reason to move away from it then.  security software that
deals with complex data structures passed around the public internet
needs to be actively maintained :(

  --dkg

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Re: Exporting/ importing changes expiration date of subkeys...

[Daniel Kahn Gillmor]

Hi MFPA--

On Wed 2018-11-14 09:40:35 +, MFPA wrote:
> Taking the opportunity to point out the software list on gnupg.org's
> GPGrelay link returns a 403 "You don't have permission to access..."
> error. (For me at least, YMMV.)

Can you please point to the specific URL where there is a broken link?

Or, even better, offer a patch against the git repo cloned from
https://dev.gnupg.org/source/gnupg-doc.git ?  I think you're talking
about web/software/swlist.org in that repository.

  --dkg


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Re: Exporting/ importing changes expiration date of subkeys...

[MFPA]

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Hash: SHA512

Hi


On Tuesday 13 November 2018 at 10:50:47 PM, in
, Daniel Kahn Gillmor wrote:-



> GPGrelay should really upgrade to the modern GnuPG
> suite.

Taking the opportunity to point out the software list on gnupg.org's
GPGrelay link returns a 403 "You don't have permission to access..."
error. (For me at least, YMMV.)

- --
Best regards

MFPA  

War is a matter of vital importance to the State.
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Exporting/ importing changes expiration date of subkeys...

[gnupgpacker]

Hello,

> well, you said that they imported correctly into other programs, right?
> so maybe the issue is at the intersection of r2mail2 and classic GnuPG.

Yes, same opinion...


> This sounds like a bug in gnupgpack, but i don't see a good way 
> to report bugs at the URL above.

In "Impressum" an email address is provided, I did contact Sebstian by
myself...
www.rose-indorf.de/gnupgpack/home.html#8 


> GPGrelay should really upgrade to the modern GnuPG suite.  Maybe as a
> user you can ask the author what's blocking them from upgrading?

Did try it several times, but no response. Development seems to be stopped
since 2005...
https://sourceforge.net/projects/gpgrelay/files/ 

Thx + regards!


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Re: Exporting/ importing changes expiration date of subkeys...

[Daniel Kahn Gillmor]

On Tue 2018-11-13 09:15:46 +0100, gnupgpacker wrote:
> Hello,
>
> importing to R2mail2 is working *without* changing expiration dates, if key
> is exported from GnuPG-2.1.11...
>
> "Converting-way":
> Export GnuPG-1.4.23(GPGkeys/Win7) > Import GnuPG-2.1.11(Win7) > Export
> GnuPG-2.1.11(Win7) > Import R2mail2(Android-8.1) > works faultless
>
>>> Exporting (older) RSA keys should be independent from GnuPG version 1.4x
>>> or 2.2x, isn't it?
>> For each import/export operation you're asking about (both successes and
>> failures), could you give the following information clearly:
>>  * Are you exporting secret keys?
>>or exporting public keys?
> RSA-4096 keypair secret + public
> (1 main key C, 3 subkeys for S/A/E)
>
>>  * where were the secret keys originally created? (on what program does
>>the original export happen?)
> GPGkeys with GnuPG-1.4.23(Win7)
>
>>  * which program is doing the import?
> R2mail2(Android-8.1)
>
>>  * does the program doing the import modify the OpenPGP certificate in
>>any way?
> It seems to modify expiration date...

have you reached out to the r2mail2 author about this?  it sounds to me
like it's possible that gpg 1.4 is exporting multiple binding signatures
per subkey, and r2mail2 is only seeing one of them (or something like
that).

does the same thing happen if you export public key material, without
the secret key material?  If it does, that might be easier to debug,
because you should be able to send just the public key material to
someone else who can help debug (i'd understand you being unwilling to
send the secret key to someone else).

I've cc'ed Stefan from r2mail2 here, in the hopes that he can take a
look.

>> it is not normal for the primary key to be marked as
>> authentication-capable ("A").  If you have a tool that is doing that,
>> please report back what tool that is, on what platform and what version!
>
> Keys with this structure are created with GPGkeys (part of GPGshell for
> Windows v3.78) and GnuPG-1.4.23, all included in Sebastians's GnuPG-Pack. 
> http://www.rose-indorf.de/gnupgpack/ 

This sounds like a bug in gnupgpack, but i don't see a good way to
report bugs at the URL above.  I would generally not recommend such a
configuration.


> In my lightweight opinion there must be issues while creating (SCA) and
> exporting (date) those keys with GPGkeys/GnuPG-1.4.23(Win7)!?

well, you said that they imported correctly into other programs, right?
so maybe the issue is at the intersection of r2mail2 and classic GnuPG.

> Maybe time to change GnuPG setup to newer versions 2.1x or 2.2x...
> But GPGrelay is needed...

GPGrelay should really upgrade to the modern GnuPG suite.  Maybe as a
user you can ask the author what's blocking them from upgrading?

--dkg


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Exporting/ importing changes expiration date of subkeys...

[gnupgpacker]

Hello,

importing to R2mail2 is working *without* changing expiration dates, if key
is exported from GnuPG-2.1.11...

"Converting-way":
Export GnuPG-1.4.23(GPGkeys/Win7) > Import GnuPG-2.1.11(Win7) > Export
GnuPG-2.1.11(Win7) > Import R2mail2(Android-8.1) > works faultless

>> Exporting (older) RSA keys should be independent from GnuPG version 1.4x
>> or 2.2x, isn't it?
> For each import/export operation you're asking about (both successes and
> failures), could you give the following information clearly:
>  * Are you exporting secret keys?
>or exporting public keys?
RSA-4096 keypair secret + public
(1 main key C, 3 subkeys for S/A/E)

>  * where were the secret keys originally created? (on what program does
>the original export happen?)
GPGkeys with GnuPG-1.4.23(Win7)

>  * which program is doing the import?
R2mail2(Android-8.1)

>  * does the program doing the import modify the OpenPGP certificate in
>any way?
It seems to modify expiration date...

> it is not normal for the primary key to be marked as
> authentication-capable ("A").  If you have a tool that is doing that,
> please report back what tool that is, on what platform and what version!

Keys with this structure are created with GPGkeys (part of GPGshell for
Windows v3.78) and GnuPG-1.4.23, all included in Sebastians's GnuPG-Pack. 
http://www.rose-indorf.de/gnupgpack/ 

Example:
Geheimer Schlüssel ist vorhanden.
pub  4096R/C02860E1  erzeugt: 2018-11-13  verfällt: niemals Aufruf: SCA
 Vertrauen: uneingeschränkt Gültigkeit: uneingeschränkt
sub  4096R/37488B7B  erzeugt: 2018-11-13  verfällt: niemals Aufruf: E
[ uneing.] (1). test 
gpg>

In my lightweight opinion there must be issues while creating (SCA) and
exporting (date) those keys with GPGkeys/GnuPG-1.4.23(Win7)!?

Maybe time to change GnuPG setup to newer versions 2.1x or 2.2x...
But GPGrelay is needed...

Thanks for help and the constructive hint for exporting with GnuPG-2.x.
Pictures will be included in posts in the future :)

Best regards, Chris


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Re: Exporting/ importing changes expiration date of subkeys...

[Daniel Kahn Gillmor]

On Mon 2018-11-12 18:27:59 +0100, gnupgpacker wrote:
>> the "classic" version of GnuPG (the 1.4.x series) not only does not
>> ... 
>> If you upgrade to the modern version of GnuPG on your windows machine,
>> and then try to re-import, i think you'll find the merge issue resolved.
>
> GnuPG 1.4.23 is part of GnuPG-Pack with old but convincing GPGrelay
> included, which needs older version 1.4x.
> http://www.rose-indorf.de/gnupgpack/ 
>
> Exporting (older) RSA keys should be independent from GnuPG version 1.4x or
> 2.2x, isn't it?

It's difficult for me to tell what you're asking about.

For each import/export operation you're asking about (both successes and
failures), could you give the following information clearly:

 * Are you exporting secret keys?
   or exporting public keys?

 * where were the secret keys originally created? (on what program does
   the original export happen?)

 * which program is doing the import?

 * does the program doing the import modify the OpenPGP certificate in
   any way?

 * does it re-export the OpenPGP certificate?  if so, is that
   re-exported certificate loaded back into the original program?

> Importing those keys are working faultless with:
> Flipdog CryptoPlugin/ Android-8.1:
> https://i.imgur.com/TmR3oiz.png 
> and 
> OpenKeychain/ Android-8.1 too:
> https://i.imgur.com/vYa1pUl.png 
> Expiration dates of key and 3 subkeys are correct set to 31.12.2019!


If possible, please include these screenshots as decently-sized (small)
attachments, rather than linking to a potentially ephemeral site like
imgur!  we want these archives to be ueful even after imgur dies or gets
bought :)

> Only importing with R2mail2/ Android-8.1 causes described expiration error.
> In my opinion it depends on key structure (1 main key, 3 subkeys for
> S/A/E)!?
> If using a 'normal' key with 1 main key S/C/A and 1 subkey for E, importing
> to R2mail2 works, even if expiration date has been enhanced.

it is not normal for the primary key to be marked as
authentication-capable ("A").  If you have a tool that is doing that,
please report back what tool that is, on what platform and what version!

Regards,

--dkg


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Exporting/ importing changes expiration date of subkeys...

[gnupgpacker]

Hello,
and thanks for reply!

> the "classic" version of GnuPG (the 1.4.x series) not only does not
> ... 
> If you upgrade to the modern version of GnuPG on your windows machine,
> and then try to re-import, i think you'll find the merge issue resolved.

GnuPG 1.4.23 is part of GnuPG-Pack with old but convincing GPGrelay
included, which needs older version 1.4x.
http://www.rose-indorf.de/gnupgpack/ 

Exporting (older) RSA keys should be independent from GnuPG version 1.4x or
2.2x, isn't it?

Importing those keys are working faultless with:
Flipdog CryptoPlugin/ Android-8.1:
https://i.imgur.com/TmR3oiz.png 
and 
OpenKeychain/ Android-8.1 too:
https://i.imgur.com/vYa1pUl.png 
Expiration dates of key and 3 subkeys are correct set to 31.12.2019!

Only importing with R2mail2/ Android-8.1 causes described expiration error.
In my opinion it depends on key structure (1 main key, 3 subkeys for
S/A/E)!?
If using a 'normal' key with 1 main key S/C/A and 1 subkey for E, importing
to R2mail2 works, even if expiration date has been enhanced.

Any hint how to bypass this issue? 
Thx + regards.




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Re: Exporting/ importing changes expiration date of subkeys...

[Daniel Kahn Gillmor]

Hi there--

On Mon 2018-11-12 11:04:09 +0100, gnupgpac...@on.yourweb.de wrote:
> there occurs an issue while exporting/ importing keypair from
> Windows-7/GPG-1.423 to Android-8.1/R2mail2.

1.423 is not a valid GnuPG version, so i assume you meant GnuPG 1.4.23.

the "classic" version of GnuPG (the 1.4.x series) not only does not
support merging secret keys effectively, it does not support modern
asymmetric cryptographic mechanisms like curve25519 and ed25519.

If you upgrade to the modern version of GnuPG on your windows machine,
and then try to re-import, i think you'll find the merge issue resolved.

You'll also get better support going forward.

   --dkg

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Exporting/ importing changes expiration date of subkeys...

[gnupgpacker]

Hello,

there occurs an issue while exporting/ importing keypair from
Windows-7/GPG-1.423 to Android-8.1/R2mail2.

Private/public key contains one main key and three subkeys, all valid til
31.12.2019:
pub xDDDC C
sub x5B9E A
sub x493D S
sub x2BE6 E

But if exporting and importing whole key, subkey x493D and subkey x2BE6
shows a (wrong) validity til 31.12.2017 only...
Key xDDDC and subkey x5B9E show correct expiration date 31.12.2019.

Additional hint: Expiration date of all (sub)keys has been extended end of
year 2017, two additional years have been added til 31.12.2019. Former
expiration date had been 31.12.2017.

*Confused* How to solve this issue?

Please refer to red marked dates!

Export GPG (Windows):
https://i.imgur.com/rgw1ZZ9.png  

Import R2mail2 (Android):
https://i.imgur.com/lAR0vgq.png

Thx + best regards,
Chris


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