Re: Help needed - for a binary to words encoder/decoder for GnuPG

[Stefan Claas via Gnupg-users]

Stefan Claas via Gnupg-users wrote:

> Stefan Claas wrote:
> 
> > Due to a lenghtly discussion in Usenet, with native English speakers,
> > I decided againt an English version and will go instead for NATO/HEX,
> > which allows for faster and error free transfer via phone, radio, etc.
> 
> Here is an output from a small encrypted NaCl secretbox blob with
> 'sender.exe':
> 
> Seven-One   Nine-FoxtrotOne-NineBravo-Two
> Echo-Five Eight-Zero  Five-Zero   Delta-Six   Delta-Alfa
> Four-Delta Bravo-Three Charlie-One Delta-Foxtrot   Bravo-Delta
> Zero-Bravo Foxtrot-FourDelta-Six   Three-Four  Charlie-One
> Three-Four Bravo-Two   Five-Eight  Bravo-Seven Charlie-Three
> Two-Four Bravo-Three Five-TwoEcho-Nine   Three-Zero
> Four-Echo Zero-FoxtrotEcho-FoxtrotZero-Alfa   Zero-Delta
> Bravo-Six Eight-Echo  Echo-SixFoxtrot-Two Three-Three
> Charlie-Four Seven-Five  Alfa-Nine   Echo-SixCharlie-Six
> Nine-Nine Seven-Two   Five-Three  Seven-Delta Four-Alfa
> Five-Foxtrot Bravo-Alfa 
> 
> 
> The listener then simply types the values as HEX into his editor of choice,
> like so:
> 
> 71 9F 19 B2 E5
> 80 50 D6 DA 4D
> B3 C1 DF BD 0B
> F4 D6 34 C1 34
> B2 58 B7 C3 24
> B3 52 E9 30 4E
> 0F EF 0A 0D B6
> 8E E6 F2 33 C4
> 75 A9 E6 C6 99
> 72 53 7D 4A 5F
> BA
> 
> Then he / she uses the 'receiver.exe' program to convert the HEX values back
> into a binary blob. :-)

O.k. the software is uploaded to my keybase account.

https://keybase.pub/stefan_claas/software/bin2nato/

Regards
Stefan 

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Re: Help needed - for a binary to words encoder/decoder for GnuPG

[Stefan Claas via Gnupg-users]

Robert J. Hansen wrote:

> > Let's assume the following...
> 
> Let's not assume anything.  You either have users in such conditions or
> you don't.  Design for the users you do have, not the hypothetical users
> you imagine having.  I can tell you from bitter experience, hypothetical
> users virtually never appear in real life.  The users who *do* appear
> normally have use cases you've never even imagined.

Well, o.k., at least users using my software have to possibilty to
change the wordlist to their liking ... ;-)

Regards
Stefan

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Re: Help needed - for a binary to words encoder/decoder for GnuPG

[Robert J. Hansen]

> Let's assume the following...

Let's not assume anything.  You either have users in such conditions or
you don't.  Design for the users you do have, not the hypothetical users
you imagine having.  I can tell you from bitter experience, hypothetical
users virtually never appear in real life.  The users who *do* appear
normally have use cases you've never even imagined.


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Re: Help needed - for a binary to words encoder/decoder for GnuPG

[Stefan Claas via Gnupg-users]

Robert J. Hansen wrote:

> > I don't agree with you, because due to dialects spoken in every
> > country (even in the US) the PGP wordlist is not suitable IMHO
> > for non-native English speakers and international comms, which
> > the NATO alphabet is perfect for!
> 
> It was designed by a computational linguist specifically to be resistant
> to these concerns.  There's an academic paper written about it.  You
> should read it.

Yes, for native English speakers ...

Let's assume the following, I would use the PGP wordlist and give
my software for a test to a German user and let's say a Japanese
user. Both of them have basic English skills. 

If one person then speaks the words from the PGP wordlist to the
other and he / she has to write down these words you can be sure
that this is *not* 100 percent error free and fast, in comparison
to my approach, which requires only to learn six easy words and
ten digits (which can be accomplished by a six year old kid).

Regards
Stefan

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Re: Help needed - for a binary to words encoder/decoder for GnuPG

[Robert J. Hansen]

> I don't agree with you, because due to dialects spoken in every
> country (even in the US) the PGP wordlist is not suitable IMHO
> for non-native English speakers and international comms, which
> the NATO alphabet is perfect for!

It was designed by a computational linguist specifically to be resistant
to these concerns.  There's an academic paper written about it.  You
should read it.

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Re: Help needed - for a binary to words encoder/decoder for GnuPG

[Stefan Claas via Gnupg-users]

Robert J. Hansen wrote:

> > Due to a lenghtly discussion in Usenet, with native English
> > speakers, I decided againt an English version and will go instead for
> > NATO/HEX, which allows for faster and error free transfer via phone,
> > radio, etc.
> 
> You can do a *lot* better than that.  This is a solved problem.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PGP_word_list
> 
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I don't agree with you, because due to dialects spoken in every
country (even in the US) the PGP wordlist is not suitable IMHO
for non-native English speakers and international comms, which
the NATO alphabet is perfect for!

There's also mnemonicode available which I first considered to
translate into German language but I gave up because it is to
much work.

https://github.com/singpolyma/mnemonicode

Regards
Stefan

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Re: Help needed - for a binary to words encoder/decoder for GnuPG

[Robert J. Hansen]

> Due to a lenghtly discussion in Usenet, with native English
> speakers, I decided againt an English version and will go instead for
> NATO/HEX, which allows for faster and error free transfer via phone,
> radio, etc.

You can do a *lot* better than that.  This is a solved problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PGP_word_list

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Re: Help needed - for a binary to words encoder/decoder for GnuPG

[Stefan Claas via Gnupg-users]

Stefan Claas wrote:

> Due to a lenghtly discussion in Usenet, with native English speakers,
> I decided againt an English version and will go instead for NATO/HEX,
> which allows for faster and error free transfer via phone, radio, etc.

Here is an output from a small encrypted NaCl secretbox blob with 'sender.exe':

Seven-One   Nine-FoxtrotOne-NineBravo-Two   Echo-Five  
Eight-Zero  Five-Zero   Delta-Six   Delta-Alfa  Four-Delta 
Bravo-Three Charlie-One Delta-Foxtrot   Bravo-Delta Zero-Bravo 
Foxtrot-FourDelta-Six   Three-Four  Charlie-One Three-Four 
Bravo-Two   Five-Eight  Bravo-Seven Charlie-Three   Two-Four   
Bravo-Three Five-TwoEcho-Nine   Three-Zero  Four-Echo  
Zero-FoxtrotEcho-FoxtrotZero-Alfa   Zero-Delta  Bravo-Six  
Eight-Echo  Echo-SixFoxtrot-Two Three-Three Charlie-Four   
Seven-Five  Alfa-Nine   Echo-SixCharlie-Six Nine-Nine  
Seven-Two   Five-Three  Seven-Delta Four-Alfa   Five-Foxtrot   
Bravo-Alfa 


The listener then simply types the values as HEX into his editor of choice,
like so:

71 9F 19 B2 E5
80 50 D6 DA 4D
B3 C1 DF BD 0B
F4 D6 34 C1 34
B2 58 B7 C3 24
B3 52 E9 30 4E
0F EF 0A 0D B6
8E E6 F2 33 C4
75 A9 E6 C6 99
72 53 7D 4A 5F
BA

Then he / she uses the 'receiver.exe' program to convert the HEX values back
into a binary blob. :-)

Regards
Stefan

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Re: Help needed - for a binary to words encoder/decoder for GnuPG

[Stefan Claas via Gnupg-users]

Stefan Claas via Gnupg-users wrote:

> Ajax wrote:
> 
> > Are there enough five letter words in the word lists available at
> > eff.org/dice?
> 
> Thanks a lot! The short list has 782 five letter words, perfect!
> 
> So I will then select 256 of them which are easy (for me) to
> read ... :-)

Due to a lenghtly discussion in Usenet, with native English speakers,
I decided againt an English version and will go instead for NATO/HEX,
which allows for faster and error free transfer via phone, radio, etc.

Regards
Stefan

-- 
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Re: Help needed - for a binary to words encoder/decoder for GnuPG

[Stefan Claas via Gnupg-users]

Stefan Claas via Gnupg-users wrote:

> Ajax wrote:
> 
> > Are there enough five letter words in the word lists available at
> > eff.org/dice?
> 
> Thanks a lot! The short list has 782 five letter words, perfect!
> 
> So I will then select 256 of them which are easy (for me) to
> read ... :-)

O.k., I have uploaded the German version and would like to ask if ML members
can test it a bit. I already did that under Win7 Pro and Win10 Pro and would
like to hear if it works fine under macOS and Linux.



Regards
Stefan

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Re: Help needed - for a binary to words encoder/decoder for GnuPG

[Stefan Claas via Gnupg-users]

Ajax wrote:

> Are there enough five letter words in the word lists available at
> eff.org/dice?

Thanks a lot! The short list has 782 five letter words, perfect!

So I will then select 256 of them which are easy (for me) to
read ... :-)

Best regards
Stefan

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Help needed - for a binary to words encoder/decoder for GnuPG

[Stefan Claas via Gnupg-users]

Hi all,

I was wondering if native English speakers can help me out in finding 'the
right' 5 letter words which can be used in an binary to words encoder/decoder,
which then can be used with GnuPG encrypted binary files, so that these
(preferably small binary blobs) messages can then be send over telephone, radio
or as letter/fax.

I already contacted my Golang programmer who wrote me yesterday such an
encoder/decoder and I have already created a dictionary with German 5 letter
words, which are IMHO easy to speak and they contain no 'offensive' etc. words.

The encoder uses for every byte combination [0-255] a single 5 letter word. For
sure, this is not so effective as codegroups[1] but IMHO faster to speak and to
write down.

Here is a very small GnuPG symmetrically encrypted message, run through the
encoder:

Leser Aroma Algen Angel Album Ahorn Fasan Folie Geste Insel
Kreis Umzug Xenia Katze Rille Sinus Gummi Adler Lende Torte
Mappe Balsa Sorte Album Insel Venus Quote Lampe Onkel Sinus
Laube Anzug Heike Hitze Lager Knauf Gitta Mensa Hitze Haube
Wonne Ruder Maler Ampel Mulde Platz Alina Alina Eimer Hecht
Blatt Biene Nebel Kraut Erbse Zweig Stadt Zweig Natur Stoff
Fleck Pferd Sinus Pudel Wange Wagen Index Leser Teich Pferd
Album Seide Tempo Pokal Couch Dauer Nadel Knopf Nager Suppe
Boden Anton Ziege Musik Platz Serie Geist Xenia Lurch Platz
Sirup Gleis Felge Musik Platz Henne Adler Dogge Kugel Forum
Salto Gabel

What I need now is kind folks looking here at the 'alpha' wordlist:
https://github.com/dwyl/english-words and sieve out with this small
Python program, or something else

|import fileinput
|N = 5
|for line in fileinput.input():
|for word in line.split():
|if len(word) == N:
| print word

5 letter words and then manually select the best ones, which native English
speakers could easily listen to and write down.

Once I have the list I will then create the English version of the software
and publish it, along with the German version, on my keybase page.

[1] https://www.fourmilab.ch/codegroup/

Best regards
Stefan


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