Re: Counterarguments Supporting GnuPG over Off The Record (OTR)

[Stephan Beck]

MFPA:
> 
> 
> On Friday 20 January 2017 at 6:10:37 AM, in
> , Miroslav Rovis wrote:-
> 
> 
> 
>> And we all are controled, exception, to varying
>> extent,
> 
> We are all completely controlled in modern society: we are enslaved to
> money and those who control it.

And sometimes even organizations that in theory should help you against
surveillance don't do it. When I discovered that my phone has been
wiretapped by measuring with a dedicated bug detector (German make and
model, and recording that measurement on video) I officially informed
the police who didn't do anything except telling me I should hand in a
proof/evidence. I did - the video of the measurement where you can
clearly see and hear the sharp reaction of the bug detector. They didn't
want to anything, not an on-site control measurement either, as another
lawyer had told me they are obliged to.

When, shortly after that,  I told a lawyer to have insight into the
records of the investigations, he did that, showed me the records, and
didn't do anything, he told me for instance, that the police would only
perform a control measurement if their own undercover agents are in
danger! And that I'd need the expertise of a dedicated engineer doing an
analysis for I don't know how many bucks! No, the bug detector doesn't
lie and he does not measure cheese or ham but the signals of , for
instance, radio emitting devices. He even silenced the fact (as I now
was informed by the State Prosecutor, if I believe this information)
that by the time I had the meeting with him for the insight into the
records, the case had already been rejected for further investigation
and dropped. Or that information is not true, because this lawyer
actually told me in person he would inform me when he received any
information. Strange.
When I sent an encrypted email to Digitalcourage.de about nine months
ago, telling them that I had evidence and asking for help in finding a
good lawyer who would act (I have a specialized legal insurance), I got
a "sorry, we can't help you but we wish you success". Thanks a lot.

From that time on, I know that organizations like Digitalcourage are
just interested in THEIR protagonism for THEIR topics like the mass
storage of data. They couldn't or didn't want to help me as an
individual who had found out (by measurement) that someone was/is
wiretapping me, but they positively could have given me the contact data
of a specialized lawyer they knew (with more than 30 years of
existence). I also signed their petition against mass storage of
communications data in Germany and saw that they must have contacts to
lawyers, as I already had thought. I have held my deception about them
deep in my heart, but now could not withstand to stand up and speak out.

It was not my imagination, it was a MEASURING DEVICE that states that
there has been wiretapping of my phone line. And there is this video
file that leaves you with no doubt...

Whenever I feel like repeating it, I'll do that and I'll inform once
again the police (or the media) and so on... THAT is fighting against
surveillance, not (only) signing petitions.

Cheers

Stephan

Feel free to contact me if you'd like to have that video file ...



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Re: Counterarguments Supporting GnuPG over Off The Record (OTR)

[MFPA]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512



On Friday 20 January 2017 at 6:10:37 AM, in
, Miroslav Rovis wrote:-



> And we all are controled, exception, to varying
> extent,

We are all completely controlled in modern society: we are enslaved to
money and those who control it.


- --
Best regards

MFPA  

Zorba the Greek - before he zorbas you
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Re: Counterarguments Supporting GnuPG over Off The Record (OTR)

[Miroslav Rovis]

On 170119-11:13-0500, Jean-David Beyer wrote:
> On 01/19/2017 04:06 AM, Stephan Beck wrote:
> > 15-20 years from now, OpenPGP will have expired and be a case of study
> > for computer historians.
> > 
> 
> I agree. 20 years from now, we will all be using telepathy, and the
> telephone and Internet will be redundant. Without electromagnetic
> communication, and without paper communication, we will be unable to
> encrypt anything. Will there be an equivalent to OpenPGP that works with
> telepathy?

You probably meant:
> ...Without electromagnetic
> communication, without paper communication, we will be *able* to
> encrypt anything. Will there be an equivalent to OpenPGP that works with
> telepathy?

Oh, c'mon! "We will be gods!" is a really old argument! But it has never
made it, never will, nor it could. There's a Perfection infinitely
greater than us, and to that Living Perfection we will never ever be
equal to. Not even close to, not for the most miopic of minds!

Pls. just first do make one single hair on your head turn another color
with your own mind!

Then we might talk!

Besides, the argument in this thread misses on the evil of the
communication of today, and that evil is posed to only grow: the
wholesale spying, you know, like the Schmoog the Schmoogle does, like
the NSA and likely every single other, be it small, be it large, secret
state subject of the kind. The spying on all and everybody, or, if you
prefer euphemisms: mass surveillance, bulk data collection.

We're already half-slaves because you are not free if you are controled,
and (since the huge spying is about acting, where needed, on the
information collected, spying is not just about some only and purely
insane curiosity)...

And we all are controled, exception, to varying extent, being only the
very advanced among us that people like GnuPG developers enpower, to
whom my thanks go!

But I agree that it's unpredictable where the road will take us...

Although some limits will always be there, and at the Will of the
Perfection that rules, unseen by the miopic views of the subjects that
do not want to admit they are not, and can't be, and never will be gods,
in the sense of complete control, say, of even their own lives, let
alone any wider reality around their lives.

Regards!
-- 
Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia
http://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr


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Re: Counterarguments Supporting GnuPG over Off The Record (OTR)

[Christian Heinrich]

Stephan,

On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 8:06 PM, Stephan Beck  wrote:
> 15-20 years from now, OpenPGP will have expired and be a case of study
> for computer historians.

I doubt this as PGP was published ~25 years ago (on 5 June 1991) and
has outlasted the modern operating system support to hardware
manufactured in the 1990s.


-- 
Regards,
Christian Heinrich

http://cmlh.id.au/contact

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Re: Counterarguments Supporting GnuPG over Off The Record (OTR)

[Jean-David Beyer]

On 01/19/2017 04:06 AM, Stephan Beck wrote:
> 15-20 years from now, OpenPGP will have expired and be a case of study
> for computer historians.
> 

I agree. 20 years from now, we will all be using telepathy, and the
telephone and Internet will be redundant. Without electromagnetic
communication, and without paper communication, we will be unable to
encrypt anything. Will there be an equivalent to OpenPGP that works with
telepathy?


-- 
  .~.  Jean-David Beyer  Registered Linux User 85642.
  /V\  PGP-Key:166D840A 0C610C8B Registered Machine  1935521.
 /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jerseyhttp://linuxcounter.net
 ^^-^^ 11:10:01 up 8 days, 19:55, 3 users, load average: 5.18, 4.96, 4.87

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Re: Counterarguments Supporting GnuPG over Off The Record (OTR)

[Robert J. Hansen]

> 15-20 years from now, OpenPGP will have expired and be a case of study
> for computer historians.

Maybe.  So what?  15-20 years from now many of us will have expired and
only be of interest to our families.

Everything dies.  That doesn't make things less valuable.

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Re: Counterarguments Supporting GnuPG over Off The Record (OTR)

[Bernhard Kleine]

Nice to have a clairvoyant and soothsayer in this mailing list. Would
you dare to make a similar statement on the fate of windows or Linux?

:)

Bernhard


Am 19.01.2017 um 10:06 schrieb Stephan Beck:
> 15-20 years from now, OpenPGP will have expired and be a case of study
> for computer historians.
>
> Christian Heinrich:
>> https://www.foo.be/2016/12/OpenPGP-really-works outlines a number of
>> counter-arguments in support of GnuPG over OTR chat app and other
>> alternatives.
>>
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Re: Counterarguments Supporting GnuPG over Off The Record (OTR)

[Stephan Beck]

15-20 years from now, OpenPGP will have expired and be a case of study
for computer historians.

Christian Heinrich:
> https://www.foo.be/2016/12/OpenPGP-really-works outlines a number of
> counter-arguments in support of GnuPG over OTR chat app and other
> alternatives.
> 

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Re: Counterarguments Supporting GnuPG over Off The Record (OTR)

[Lou Wynn]

The author's stand is hilarious to me. He is

"My day-to-day work is in the field of information security and
especially incident handling, analysis and response. "

That's is to say, he's a security expert. But he compares himself with
Johnny by quoting "Why Johnny Can’t Encrypt”

Actually, there is a more recent paper called

"Why Johnny Still, Still Can’t Encrypt: Evaluating the Usability of a
Modern PGP Client"

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1510.08555.pdf

In my observation, what this type of papers point out is obvious:

It is non-trivial for non-technical people to make PGP work.



On 01/02/2017 06:41 PM, Christian Heinrich wrote:
> https://www.foo.be/2016/12/OpenPGP-really-works outlines a number of
> counter-arguments in support of GnuPG over OTR chat app and other
> alternatives.
>

-- 
Thanks,
Lou

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