Re: About gnustep-gui and camaleon

2006-02-13 Thread Jeremy Cowgar

Right now Camaleon needs a tad bit of help in two areas that I can see.

1. Vertical progress bars do not function.
2. Stepper control is rendered in normal GNUstep skin.

I'm new to GNUstep and have never looked at Camaleon source, nor  
really even understand *how* it works. Those are just my simple  
observations which may or may not be helpful.


Jeremy

On Feb 13, 2006, at 11:24 AM, Maurizio Boriani wrote:


Hi all,
	After packaging most of gnustep software for sourcemage GNU/Linux  
distribution[0]
(to learn depends and the huge amount of sw available on gnustep  
framework)

I'm going to play around with gnustep core sources :)

In order to start 'practical hack' on gnustep I'd like to begin  
with gui + camaleon

integration (found this in TODO list).

Is someone already doing this?
Have you some suggestions/alert about this hack?

thanks,

Maurizio.

[0]. http://www.sourcemage.org

--
Maurizio Boriani
GPG key: 0xCC0FBF8F
 => E429 A37C 5259 763C 9DEE  FC8B 5D61 C796 CC0F BF8F <=



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Re: libgnustep-base split proposal

2006-02-19 Thread Jeremy Cowgar


On Feb 19, 2006, at 2:35 AM, Richard Frith-Macdonald wrote:



On 19 Feb 2006, at 05:27, Andrew Ruder wrote:


Hello all,

Objective-C is an incredible programming language, but right now the
most crippling factor for its widespread use is the lack of a  
"standard
library."  Right now there are two prevalent options to utilizing  
Obj-C
in your program: GNUstep and OS X.  Obviously the biggest problem  
with

OS X is that it is not free.  GNUstep, however, brings along a whole
lot of other problems: crazy GNUstep/ directory structure, daemons,
config files, etc.. etc..  A typical developer not familiar with  
GNUstep

sees these things and runs the other direction.


Is there actually real evidence of the above?  If so I think we  
need to

spend some time on publicity/education to let people know that the
problems are almost entirely imaginary.  Perhaps an introduction
telling people how things can be used with no setup at all, and
removal of a few warnings about missing setup.


Me. I wrote an app that was a FastCGI web based app, wanted to write  
it in Obj C, have no use for ~/GNUstep, etc... It posed problems  
making it work in the forked, no env var, environment of Apache.


I have another utility that was very easy and a pleasure to develop  
in Obj C that is nothing more than a command line utility that takes  
an EDI file (X12 837), parses, the compares the claim numbers to  
those in another file, and writes the new file out. It splits large  
files into smaller ones, updating cross-ref checks, numerical checks,  
counts, etc... That has no use either for ~/GNUstep/ and it poses  
problems for me saying, Here Luke, run this on your box to split the  
file.


Jeremy



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Re: libgnustep-base split proposal

2006-02-19 Thread Jeremy Cowgar

I think it's a great idea!

On Feb 19, 2006, at 12:27 AM, Andrew Ruder wrote:


Hello all,

Objective-C is an incredible programming language, but right now the
most crippling factor for its widespread use is the lack of a  
"standard
library."  Right now there are two prevalent options to utilizing  
Obj-C

in your program: GNUstep and OS X.  Obviously the biggest problem with
OS X is that it is not free.  GNUstep, however, brings along a whole
lot of other problems: crazy GNUstep/ directory structure, daemons,
config files, etc.. etc..  A typical developer not familiar with  
GNUstep

sees these things and runs the other direction.

We are throwing away a tremendous opportunity here, you have lots of
developers who *could* be using a large chunk of GNUstep regardless if
they are not interested in the full GNUstep environment.  Instead they
waste their time (no offense intended) on libFoundation and other such
OpenStep-like API implementations, because GNUstep is not flexible
enough for their needs.  We can easily fill the role that  
libFoundation

and derivatives are made to fill.  Why is there any more than a single
free Foundation implementation being developed right now?  In essence,
I'd like to propose that the -base library be split to fill this role.

Now, since you're still reading :) what I've discovered over the  
course

of the last couple weeks is that *most* of GNUstep really is just an
object library.  I started by separating out the following files:

NSConnection.m
NSDistantObject.m
NSDistributedLock.m
NSDistributedNotificationCenter.m
NSMessagePort.m
NSMessagePortNameServer.m
NSPortCoder.m
NSPort.m
NSPortMessage.m
NSPortNameServer.m
NSSocketPort.m
NSSocketPortNameServer.m

The distributed objects make GNUstep more than just an objects library
due to the additional overhead of the daemons.  The only two files
besides these that didn't fit in the "just a library" paradigm were:

NSBundle.m
NSUserDefaults.m
Some parts of NSPathUtilities.m

Now, these were *especially* tricky to remove from -base since they  
are

used everywhere.  After spending some considerable time (and lots of
late nights ;)) I managed to get them removed in a manner that should
allow them to be re-added in a library on top of -base.

For the rest of this email I will refer to the eventual object library
made out of the remaining files (NSString, NSDictionary, etc..) as
"level1" and the above more-GNUstep-environment-centric files as
"level2"

The first change to level1 was to inventory exactly what it was  
looking

up in defaults and from NSBundle to guage what exactly needed to be
abstracted.  In the end, I decided the best implementation would be to
abstract all the uses into a GSDefaults class.  The GSDefaults  
class is

quite simple:

@interface GSDefaults : NSObject
[...]
/**
 * Resource path for level 1 base
 */
- (NSString *)baseResourcePath;
/**
 * Resource path for additions base
 */
- (NSString *)additionsResourcePath;
[...]
@end

Of course, there are additional methods to deal with the other  
defaults
used throughout -base.  After the split, the GSDefaults in level1  
could

simply return the results obtained from ./configure, in level2 a
category would be created that could also obtain this information from
NSUserDefaults.

If anyone has any specific objections to any part of this proposal,
please reply with specific reasons why and how you think it could be
done better.

I'd like to begin work on -base by abstracting uses of NSBundle and
NSUserDefaults into an additional class.  With NSBundle and
NSUserDefaults removed from most of -base, they can slide out into
another library.  The distributed objects and associated daemons would
go with them or into an additional library.  Also, it may be that  
other

classes more properly belong in the environment-oriented library
(NSUndoManager, the formatters, etc.), but I believe NSBundle and
NSUserDefaults will be the most difficult and should be targeted  
first.


As far as compilation against this reformulated -base, -make will
simply change what it is linking against.  I would like to  
eventually get

level1 to have the ability to compile with full FHS compliance
(/usr/lib, /usr/include, /usr/share, pkg-config for compiling/linking)
but that is only an issue after the split is made.  After that I  
will be

personally reviving as many of the obj-c bindings projects for various
libraries that I can find.  Making obj-c a first class citizen on  
linux

that plays nicely with a normal system setup = more eventual steppers
(the next logical step after discovering obj-c is the great use of  
it by

-gui, imo).

Any thoughts?  And as always, I will be willing to back up my
suggestions/etc.  with the code/effort needed to implement it ;).   
There

is of course interest in this kind of project, I think.

Cheers,
Andrew Ruder

And P.S., I really *do* have a *severely* hacked -base on my system
right now that I can link against and run programs with no environment

Re: libgnustep-base split proposal

2006-02-24 Thread Jeremy Cowgar


On Feb 22, 2006, at 2:22 AM, Richard Frith-Macdonald wrote:
Jeremy Cowgar said that he had problems because the base library  
creates/uses a user defaults database, and he didn't want it doing  
that... so I spent a little while making that behavior optional ...  
and you can pick up the new version from svn.


It was also due to libraries being in odd places and Apache not  
knowing where to find them. It would have been much easier if there  
was a /usr/lib/libgnustep-base.so or something like that.


Jeremy


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