Re: [ML] Re: Hosting of gnustep.org

[Ivan Vučica]

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 9:32 PM Svetlana Tkachenko
 wrote:
> However, ideally, I would recommend that a mirror of all GitHub content is 
> maintained elsewhere, in case this big company decides to ask for money, 
> disappear, change hosting policies, or something else happens to it.

Use `git clone`?

Re: [ML] Re: Hosting of gnustep.org

[Svetlana Tkachenko]

> Making an exception only on some (like GitHub).

This exception is only acceptable because the users will be served content that 
does not require proprietary software to run. However, ideally, I would 
recommend that a mirror of all GitHub content is maintained elsewhere, in case 
this big company decides to ask for money, disappear, change hosting policies, 
or something else happens to it.

Re: [ML] Re: Hosting of gnustep.org

[Svetlana Tkachenko]

> The idea is to get off of the existing server.

What server would host the interactive software index, then?

Re: [ML] Re: Hosting of gnustep.org

[H. Nikolaus Schaller]

> Am 19.01.2021 um 17:43 schrieb Umberto Cerrato :
> 
>> Theoretically (but that is a very personal opinion), to me the best platform
>> would be a self hosted one. Relying on other(s) services the least possible.

Indeed.

>> The issue with self-hosted solutions is reliability.  I have tried hosting 
>> things on my home network and downtime is just too much.

The key issue is that it also needs some server maintainer. Somebody who can 
press the reboot button if needed. On the other hand it is the most flexible 
variant.

> Eventually I am not against paying for having a service. But, are we sure 
> there are not “better” alternatives to AWS? Better for free software 
> projects. So services which can more in line with free software principles?

IMHO renting a dedicated Linux server is neither expensive nor difficult to 
use, so it is IMHO a good compromise.

Well it is a trade-off between access & reliability (AWS and other cloud 
solution are scaleable and have mirrors/replicators/load balancers etc.) but a 
single Linux node on the Internet (with a high speed and low latency 
connection) may be sufficient.

When looking through a page like 
https://www.hostingadvice.com/how-to/cheap-dedicated-server-hosting/ I get the 
impression that it is quite expensive in the US. In Germany you can get 
dedicated (or virtual) hosts with root access starting at ca. 30€ per month. 
They come with full Debian or other blend and have remote control through ssh, 
several GB of storage, and high speed internet and fixed IP address (which is 
usually the main problem running your own server in your cellar).

But Andreas even offered to host the files:

> If the question is if anyone wants to host it, I can raise my hand. I run 
> some hosting service for some customers.
> However, I don't have the time to administer it. So a VM for the project and 
> internet connectivity through AS6775. Content is a different story.
> 


So hosting is for free (?). Network access is there. Content is already 
available at github.io.

And the VM is likely a remotely controlled Linux where we ssh as root and then 
"apt-get install apache2 php mysql git". What is missing?

Someone (or a team) doing it :)

BR,
Nikolaus

Re: [ML] Re: Hosting of gnustep.org

[H. Nikolaus Schaller]

> Am 19.01.2021 um 17:49 schrieb Ivan Vučica :
> 
> On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 7:18 AM H. Nikolaus Schaller  
> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 19.01.2021 um 00:36 schrieb Ivan Vučica :
>>> 
>>> Some options:
>>> 
>>> - Should we turn the index into a set of static pages generated from
>>> MySQL data, which we then check in?
>>> - If we turn each entry into a single .md file, we can perhaps
>>> leverage https://github.com/allejo/jekyll-toc
>> 
>> Hm.
>> 
>> The page is highly interactive (searching/filtering/jumping) and accepts
>> proposing updates. It is even counting access and building a TOP10 list.
>> 
>> How should that work with static content?
> 
> Hypothetically speaking, as I don't want to put that much effort and
> I'd rather let it run as-is:

Me too.

> 
> As we stand, there aren't so many items. The list of them can be
> fetched all at once, and filtered/searched client-side, if we need
> that.
> 
> Top 10 is, obviously, not doable. However, I missed that it's based on
> an access metric; I thought it was simply the 'last 10'.
> 
> Interestingly, we have plenty of pages that are making outgoing
> requests and failing; for instance, the number 1 on top 10:
> http://www.gnustep.org/softwareindex/showdetail.php?app=61

Well, someone has moved the refererred page and not updated the
index.

> 
> Should we rethink the index?

We should fix such bugs. The mechanism is there (send an update request).

> 
>> 
>>> - We could have a tiny nginx host which does nothing but route
>>> requests to serving backends based on the path:
>>> - either proxy the request to gnustep.github.io,
>>> - or proxy it to a host with the software index (or even return a
>>> 301 to something like index.gnustep.org)
>> 
>> Keep it simple...
>> 
>> Why not just redirect the entry point www.gnustep.org/index.html to
>> the new page and leave the remainder like the softwareindex on the
>> existing infrastructure (apache, php, mysql)?
>> 
>> This should suffice
>> 
>> www.gnustep.org/index.html;
>> 
>> https://gnustep.github.io/index.html"/>
> 
> Because this situation relegates the "main site" to a secondary URL,
> permanently. I've done that before and I regret it. And it prevents us
> from even attempting to preserve location of other URLs which would be
> completely fine as static pages. (Search engines will eventually index
> gnustep.github.io as the sole main site. But right now it's not even
> on the first page of results on three major search engines I tested
> on.)

Ok, I see. It is also not a good idea if you want do redirect all "deep links".

Re: [ML] Re: Hosting of gnustep.org

[Ivan Vučica]

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 7:18 AM H. Nikolaus Schaller  wrote:
>
>
> > Am 19.01.2021 um 00:36 schrieb Ivan Vučica :
> >
> > Some options:
> >
> > - Should we turn the index into a set of static pages generated from
> > MySQL data, which we then check in?
> > - If we turn each entry into a single .md file, we can perhaps
> > leverage https://github.com/allejo/jekyll-toc
>
> Hm.
>
> The page is highly interactive (searching/filtering/jumping) and accepts
> proposing updates. It is even counting access and building a TOP10 list.
>
> How should that work with static content?

Hypothetically speaking, as I don't want to put that much effort and
I'd rather let it run as-is:

As we stand, there aren't so many items. The list of them can be
fetched all at once, and filtered/searched client-side, if we need
that.

Top 10 is, obviously, not doable. However, I missed that it's based on
an access metric; I thought it was simply the 'last 10'.

Interestingly, we have plenty of pages that are making outgoing
requests and failing; for instance, the number 1 on top 10:
http://www.gnustep.org/softwareindex/showdetail.php?app=61

Should we rethink the index?

>
> > - We could have a tiny nginx host which does nothing but route
> > requests to serving backends based on the path:
> >  - either proxy the request to gnustep.github.io,
> >  - or proxy it to a host with the software index (or even return a
> > 301 to something like index.gnustep.org)
>
> Keep it simple...
>
> Why not just redirect the entry point www.gnustep.org/index.html to
> the new page and leave the remainder like the softwareindex on the
> existing infrastructure (apache, php, mysql)?
>
> This should suffice
>
> www.gnustep.org/index.html;
>
> https://gnustep.github.io/index.html"/>

Because this situation relegates the "main site" to a secondary URL,
permanently. I've done that before and I regret it. And it prevents us
from even attempting to preserve location of other URLs which would be
completely fine as static pages. (Search engines will eventually index
gnustep.github.io as the sole main site. But right now it's not even
on the first page of results on three major search engines I tested
on.)

>
>
> >
> > I can play with moving things around over some weekend, if I get
> > sufficient access to current host.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 6:03 PM H. Nikolaus Schaller  
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >> I just recognized that making gnustep.org point somewhere else will break
> >>
> >> http://www.gnustep.org/softwareindex/
> >>
> >> unless this is moved as well.
> >> It is long ago that someone did set this up and it still works...
> >>
> >> The Software Index needs php, a httpd and a mysql database to be hosted 
> >> somewhere. I am not sure if gnustep.github.io can provide this.
> >>
> >> BR,
> >> Nikolaus
> >>
> >>> Am 18.01.2021 um 18:26 schrieb Patryk Laurent :
> >>>
> >>> Hi Greg,
> >>>
> >>> Could we make a plan to implement pointing the domain to the Gitub-hosted 
> >>> site and/or delegate someone to do it?
> >>>
> >>> Aside from the navigation menu improvements already committed on the 
> >>> GitHub version of the site, we could also incorporate or link to sites to 
> >>> increase visibility e.g., https://teespring.com/stores/gnustep
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>> Patryk
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>  On Dec 18, 2019, at 13:01, Ivan Vučica  wrote:
> 
>  On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 1:17 PM Manuel Guesdon  
>  wrote:
> >
> > - make a CNAME www.gnustep.org => gnustep.github.io (but server hosting
> >  gnustep.github.io should accept requests for www.gnustep.org)
> 
>  This merely requires creating a file named 'CNAME' in the github repo
>  for gnustep.github.io (i.e.
>  https://github.com/gnustep/gnustep.github.io).
> 
>  See 
>  https://help.github.com/en/github/working-with-github-pages/managing-a-custom-domain-for-your-github-pages-site
> 
> > I can't make a CNAME gnustep.org => gnustep.github.io (due to the way 
> > DNS
> > works) but I can make a 301 redirect http://gnustep.org
> > => http://www.gnustep.org
> 
>  Looks like Github documents the exact IPs that can be used:
>  https://help.github.com/en/github/working-with-github-pages/managing-a-custom-domain-for-your-github-pages-site#configuring-an-apex-domain
> 
>  Then again, 301 + CNAME for www are probably more maintainable.
> >>
> >>
>

Re: [ML] Re: Hosting of gnustep.org

[Umberto Cerrato]

> Il giorno 19 gen 2021, alle ore 17:34, Gregory Casamento 
>  ha scritto:
> 
> 
> Umberto,
> 
> On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 6:30 AM Umberto Cerrato  
> wrote:
> (Hi there, I am quite new here, I am sorry for interfering here, I wanted to.)
> 
> Is that really necessary?
> 
> I do not know how much GNUstep is “libre”.
> 
> Very.
>  
> But usually, I would tend to stay out of big company platforms (f.e. Amazon)
> Making an exception only on some (like GitHub).
> 
> 
> true, but it's hard to avoid amazon.
>  
> Theoretically (but that is a very personal opinion), to me the best platform
> would be a self hosted one. Relying on other(s) services the least possible.
> 
> 
> The issue with self-hosted solutions is reliability.  I have tried hosting 
> things on my home network and downtime is just too much.
> PS:
> To me, these are tough choices.
> Eventually, I think the only thing GNUstep may need is just an aesthetic 
> restyling.
> 
> It needs that on many levels.

Yes. I didn’t say that, but really, I wanted to say that.

PS:
One of the thing I do not like AWS is that I find it ugly when I download 
things from GitHub (IDK why, maybe even GH rely on AWS) and macOS shows me “do 
you want to open this thing downloaded from _ugly amazon was link_ ?”

But really, that is the worst example ever on why I do not like the fact that 
many people rely on AWS.
Eventually I am not against paying for having a service. But, are we sure there 
are not “better” alternatives to AWS? Better for free software projects. So 
services which can more in line with free software principles?

> I have something more to say, But I think I am just going to copy-paste that 
> to the IRC channel
> If you want to hear them.
> 
> > Il giorno 19 gen 2021, alle ore 11:35, Gregory Casamento 
> >  ha scritto:
> > 
> > Nikolaus,
> > 
> > On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 2:18 AM H. Nikolaus Schaller  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > Am 19.01.2021 um 00:36 schrieb Ivan Vučica :
> > > 
> > > Some options:
> > > 
> > > - Should we turn the index into a set of static pages generated from
> > > MySQL data, which we then check in?
> > > - If we turn each entry into a single .md file, we can perhaps
> > > leverage https://github.com/allejo/jekyll-toc
> > 
> > Hm.
> > 
> > The page is highly interactive (searching/filtering/jumping) and accepts
> > proposing updates. It is even counting access and building a TOP10 list.
> > 
> > How should that work with static content?
> > 
> > > - We could have a tiny nginx host which does nothing but route
> > > requests to serving backends based on the path:
> > >  - either proxy the request to gnustep.github.io,
> > >  - or proxy it to a host with the software index (or even return a
> > > 301 to something like index.gnustep.org)
> > 
> > Keep it simple...
> > 
> > Why not just redirect the entry point www.gnustep.org/index.htmlto
> > the new page and leave the remainder like the softwareindex on the
> > existing infrastructure (apache, php, mysql)?
> > 
> > The idea is to get off of the existing server.  I really would like to move 
> > to something hosted on github or on some other server that we push changes 
> > to more easily.
> > 
> > This should suffice
> > 
> > www.gnustep.org/index.html;
> > 
> > https://gnustep.github.io/index.html"/>
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > I can play with moving things around over some weekend, if I get
> > > sufficient access to current host.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 6:03 PM H. Nikolaus Schaller  
> > > wrote:
> > >> 
> > >> Hi,
> > >> I just recognized that making gnustep.org point somewhere else will break
> > >> 
> > >> http://www.gnustep.org/softwareindex/
> > >> 
> > >> unless this is moved as well.
> > >> It is long ago that someone did set this up and it still works...
> > >> 
> > >> The Software Index needs php, a httpd and a mysql database to be hosted 
> > >> somewhere. I am not sure if gnustep.github.io can provide this.
> > >> 
> > >> BR,
> > >> Nikolaus
> > >> 
> > >>> Am 18.01.2021 um 18:26 schrieb Patryk Laurent :
> > >>> 
> > >>> Hi Greg,
> > >>> 
> > >>> Could we make a plan to implement pointing the domain to the 
> > >>> Gitub-hosted site and/or delegate someone to do it?
> > >>> 
> > >>> Aside from the navigation menu improvements already committed on the 
> > >>> GitHub version of the site, we could also incorporate or link to sites 
> > >>> to increase visibility e.g., https://teespring.com/stores/gnustep
> > >>> 
> > >>> Best regards,
> > >>> Patryk
> > >>> 
> > >>> 
> > >>> 
> > >>> 
> > >>> 
> >  On Dec 18, 2019, at 13:01, Ivan Vučica  wrote:
> >  
> >  On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 1:17 PM Manuel Guesdon  
> >  wrote:
> > > 
> > > - make a CNAME www.gnustep.org => gnustep.github.io(but server hosting
> > >  gnustep.github.io should accept requests for www.gnustep.org)
> >  
> >  This merely requires creating a file named 'CNAME' in the github repo
> >  for gnustep.github.io (i.e.
> >  

Re: [ML] Re: Hosting of gnustep.org

[Gregory Casamento]

Umberto,

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 6:30 AM Umberto Cerrato 
wrote:

> (Hi there, I am quite new here, I am sorry for interfering here, I wanted
> to.)
>
> Is that really necessary?
>
> I do not know how much GNUstep is “libre”.
>

Very.


> But usually, I would tend to stay out of big company platforms (f.e.
> Amazon)
> Making an exception only on some (like GitHub).
>
>
true, but it's hard to avoid amazon.


> Theoretically (but that is a very personal opinion), to me the best
> platform
> would be a self hosted one. Relying on other(s) services the least
> possible.
>
>
The issue with self-hosted solutions is reliability.  I have tried hosting
things on my home network and downtime is just too much.

> PS:
> To me, these are tough choices.
> Eventually, I think the only thing GNUstep may need is just an aesthetic
> restyling.
>

It needs that on many levels.

>
> I have something more to say, But I think I am just going to copy-paste
> that to the IRC channel
> If you want to hear them.
>
> > Il giorno 19 gen 2021, alle ore 11:35, Gregory Casamento <
> greg.casame...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
> >
> > Nikolaus,
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 2:18 AM H. Nikolaus Schaller 
> wrote:
> >
> > > Am 19.01.2021 um 00:36 schrieb Ivan Vučica :
> > >
> > > Some options:
> > >
> > > - Should we turn the index into a set of static pages generated from
> > > MySQL data, which we then check in?
> > > - If we turn each entry into a single .md file, we can perhaps
> > > leverage https://github.com/allejo/jekyll-toc
> >
> > Hm.
> >
> > The page is highly interactive (searching/filtering/jumping) and accepts
> > proposing updates. It is even counting access and building a TOP10 list.
> >
> > How should that work with static content?
> >
> > > - We could have a tiny nginx host which does nothing but route
> > > requests to serving backends based on the path:
> > >  - either proxy the request to gnustep.github.io,
> > >  - or proxy it to a host with the software index (or even return a
> > > 301 to something like index.gnustep.org)
> >
> > Keep it simple...
> >
> > Why not just redirect the entry point www.gnustep.org/index.html to
> > the new page and leave the remainder like the softwareindex on the
> > existing infrastructure (apache, php, mysql)?
> >
> > The idea is to get off of the existing server.  I really would like to
> move to something hosted on github or on some other server that we push
> changes to more easily.
> >
> > This should suffice
> >
> > www.gnustep.org/index.html;
> >
> > https://gnustep.github.io/index.html"/>
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I can play with moving things around over some weekend, if I get
> > > sufficient access to current host.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 6:03 PM H. Nikolaus Schaller <
> h...@goldelico.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hi,
> > >> I just recognized that making gnustep.org point somewhere else will
> break
> > >>
> > >> http://www.gnustep.org/softwareindex/
> > >>
> > >> unless this is moved as well.
> > >> It is long ago that someone did set this up and it still works...
> > >>
> > >> The Software Index needs php, a httpd and a mysql database to be
> hosted somewhere. I am not sure if gnustep.github.io can provide this.
> > >>
> > >> BR,
> > >> Nikolaus
> > >>
> > >>> Am 18.01.2021 um 18:26 schrieb Patryk Laurent :
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi Greg,
> > >>>
> > >>> Could we make a plan to implement pointing the domain to the
> Gitub-hosted site and/or delegate someone to do it?
> > >>>
> > >>> Aside from the navigation menu improvements already committed on the
> GitHub version of the site, we could also incorporate or link to sites to
> increase visibility e.g., https://teespring.com/stores/gnustep
> > >>>
> > >>> Best regards,
> > >>> Patryk
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> >  On Dec 18, 2019, at 13:01, Ivan Vučica  wrote:
> > 
> >  On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 1:17 PM Manuel Guesdon 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > - make a CNAME www.gnustep.org => gnustep.github.io(but server
> hosting
> > >  gnustep.github.io should accept requests for www.gnustep.org)
> > 
> >  This merely requires creating a file named 'CNAME' in the github
> repo
> >  for gnustep.github.io (i.e.
> >  https://github.com/gnustep/gnustep.github.io).
> > 
> >  See
> https://help.github.com/en/github/working-with-github-pages/managing-a-custom-domain-for-your-github-pages-site
> > 
> > > I can't make a CNAME gnustep.org => gnustep.github.io(due to the
> way DNS
> > > works) but I can make a 301 redirect http://gnustep.org
> > > => http://www.gnustep.org
> > 
> >  Looks like Github documents the exact IPs that can be used:
> > 
> https://help.github.com/en/github/working-with-github-pages/managing-a-custom-domain-for-your-github-pages-site#configuring-an-apex-domain
> > 
> >  Then again, 301 + CNAME for www are probably more maintainable.
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Gregory Casamento
> > GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal 

Re: [ML] Re: Hosting of gnustep.org

[Umberto Cerrato]

(Hi there, I am quite new here, I am sorry for interfering here, I wanted to.)

Is that really necessary?

I do not know how much GNUstep is “libre”.
But usually, I would tend to stay out of big company platforms (f.e. Amazon)
Making an exception only on some (like GitHub).

Theoretically (but that is a very personal opinion), to me the best platform
would be a self hosted one. Relying on other(s) services the least possible.

PS:
To me, these are tough choices.
Eventually, I think the only thing GNUstep may need is just an aesthetic 
restyling.

I have something more to say, But I think I am just going to copy-paste that to 
the IRC channel
If you want to hear them.

> Il giorno 19 gen 2021, alle ore 11:35, Gregory Casamento 
>  ha scritto:
> 
> Nikolaus,
> 
> On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 2:18 AM H. Nikolaus Schaller  
> wrote:
> 
> > Am 19.01.2021 um 00:36 schrieb Ivan Vučica :
> > 
> > Some options:
> > 
> > - Should we turn the index into a set of static pages generated from
> > MySQL data, which we then check in?
> > - If we turn each entry into a single .md file, we can perhaps
> > leverage https://github.com/allejo/jekyll-toc
> 
> Hm.
> 
> The page is highly interactive (searching/filtering/jumping) and accepts
> proposing updates. It is even counting access and building a TOP10 list.
> 
> How should that work with static content?
> 
> > - We could have a tiny nginx host which does nothing but route
> > requests to serving backends based on the path:
> >  - either proxy the request to gnustep.github.io,
> >  - or proxy it to a host with the software index (or even return a
> > 301 to something like index.gnustep.org)
> 
> Keep it simple...
> 
> Why not just redirect the entry point www.gnustep.org/index.html to
> the new page and leave the remainder like the softwareindex on the
> existing infrastructure (apache, php, mysql)?
> 
> The idea is to get off of the existing server.  I really would like to move 
> to something hosted on github or on some other server that we push changes to 
> more easily.
> 
> This should suffice
> 
> www.gnustep.org/index.html;
> 
> https://gnustep.github.io/index.html"/>
> 
> 
> > 
> > I can play with moving things around over some weekend, if I get
> > sufficient access to current host.
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 6:03 PM H. Nikolaus Schaller  
> > wrote:
> >> 
> >> Hi,
> >> I just recognized that making gnustep.org point somewhere else will break
> >> 
> >> http://www.gnustep.org/softwareindex/
> >> 
> >> unless this is moved as well.
> >> It is long ago that someone did set this up and it still works...
> >> 
> >> The Software Index needs php, a httpd and a mysql database to be hosted 
> >> somewhere. I am not sure if gnustep.github.io can provide this.
> >> 
> >> BR,
> >> Nikolaus
> >> 
> >>> Am 18.01.2021 um 18:26 schrieb Patryk Laurent :
> >>> 
> >>> Hi Greg,
> >>> 
> >>> Could we make a plan to implement pointing the domain to the Gitub-hosted 
> >>> site and/or delegate someone to do it?
> >>> 
> >>> Aside from the navigation menu improvements already committed on the 
> >>> GitHub version of the site, we could also incorporate or link to sites to 
> >>> increase visibility e.g., https://teespring.com/stores/gnustep
> >>> 
> >>> Best regards,
> >>> Patryk
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
>  On Dec 18, 2019, at 13:01, Ivan Vučica  wrote:
>  
>  On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 1:17 PM Manuel Guesdon  
>  wrote:
> > 
> > - make a CNAME www.gnustep.org => gnustep.github.io(but server hosting
> >  gnustep.github.io should accept requests for www.gnustep.org)
>  
>  This merely requires creating a file named 'CNAME' in the github repo
>  for gnustep.github.io (i.e.
>  https://github.com/gnustep/gnustep.github.io).
>  
>  See 
>  https://help.github.com/en/github/working-with-github-pages/managing-a-custom-domain-for-your-github-pages-site
>  
> > I can't make a CNAME gnustep.org => gnustep.github.io(due to the way DNS
> > works) but I can make a 301 redirect http://gnustep.org
> > => http://www.gnustep.org
>  
>  Looks like Github documents the exact IPs that can be used:
>  https://help.github.com/en/github/working-with-github-pages/managing-a-custom-domain-for-your-github-pages-site#configuring-an-apex-domain
>  
>  Then again, 301 + CNAME for www are probably more maintainable.
> >> 
> >> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Gregory Casamento
> GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant
> http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com
> https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron
> https://gf.me/u/x8m3sx - My GNUstep GoFundMe
> https://teespring.com/stores/gnustep - Store

Re: [ML] Re: Hosting of gnustep.org

[H. Nikolaus Schaller]

Hi Gregory,

> Am 19.01.2021 um 11:35 schrieb Gregory Casamento :
> 
> Nikolaus,
> 
> On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 2:18 AM H. Nikolaus Schaller  
> wrote:
> 
> > Am 19.01.2021 um 00:36 schrieb Ivan Vučica :
> > 
> > Some options:
> > 
> > - Should we turn the index into a set of static pages generated from
> > MySQL data, which we then check in?
> > - If we turn each entry into a single .md file, we can perhaps
> > leverage https://github.com/allejo/jekyll-toc
> 
> Hm.
> 
> The page is highly interactive (searching/filtering/jumping) and accepts
> proposing updates. It is even counting access and building a TOP10 list.
> 
> How should that work with static content?
> 
> > - We could have a tiny nginx host which does nothing but route
> > requests to serving backends based on the path:
> >  - either proxy the request to gnustep.github.io,
> >  - or proxy it to a host with the software index (or even return a
> > 301 to something like index.gnustep.org)
> 
> Keep it simple...
> 
> Why not just redirect the entry point www.gnustep.org/index.html to
> the new page and leave the remainder like the softwareindex on the
> existing infrastructure (apache, php, mysql)?
> 
> The idea is to get off of the existing server.

Is there a reason?

>  I really would like to move to something hosted on github

If github can host dynamic content we are fine. But I am not
aware that it is available.

> or on some other server that we push changes to more easily.

Ok, now I see. The target is to easier maintain the code on the
server.

Yes, there are servers with good front-end (fast network) and
good backend (upload of new content). And there are the others.

I am currently fighting with a shared hoster that does only allow
WebFTP for upload and doesn't provide ssh access. This makes installation
and maintainance of web applications like NextCloud a nightmare.
Another web hoster I use allows ssh and there I can easily run
scp and rsync.

If you have a small budget of let's say 20$ / month there are
thousands of web hosters providing Apache, PHP, MySQL with better
upload facilities than the current server.

Wasn't there some budget for the GNUstep project from donations
to FSF?

(BTW: who is hosting it currently, i.e. running the server 81.201.190.216?).

If you spend some more $$ you can get a dedicated Linux host with
fast as hell internet access. Then you can do the same as with
github.io. I.e. place a web and git server on it, create a local
git repository on your machine and on that server and have the
/var/www point to the server's copy. Then install mysql and php
on the server and we have what we need. You can git push static
web pages (and the software index PHP code) and the host also
runs php/mysql for dynamic content. Or that machine could git
mirror everything from the gnustep github repository and serve
the web pages from that copy.

Thousands of options for just my 2 ct.

BR,
Nikolaus


> 
> This should suffice
> 
> www.gnustep.org/index.html;
> 
> https://gnustep.github.io/index.html"/>
> 
> 
> > 
> > I can play with moving things around over some weekend, if I get
> > sufficient access to current host.
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 6:03 PM H. Nikolaus Schaller  
> > wrote:
> >> 
> >> Hi,
> >> I just recognized that making gnustep.org point somewhere else will break
> >> 
> >> http://www.gnustep.org/softwareindex/
> >> 
> >> unless this is moved as well.
> >> It is long ago that someone did set this up and it still works...
> >> 
> >> The Software Index needs php, a httpd and a mysql database to be hosted 
> >> somewhere. I am not sure if gnustep.github.io can provide this.
> >> 
> >> BR,
> >> Nikolaus
> >> 
> >>> Am 18.01.2021 um 18:26 schrieb Patryk Laurent :
> >>> 
> >>> Hi Greg,
> >>> 
> >>> Could we make a plan to implement pointing the domain to the Gitub-hosted 
> >>> site and/or delegate someone to do it?
> >>> 
> >>> Aside from the navigation menu improvements already committed on the 
> >>> GitHub version of the site, we could also incorporate or link to sites to 
> >>> increase visibility e.g., https://teespring.com/stores/gnustep
> >>> 
> >>> Best regards,
> >>> Patryk
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
>  On Dec 18, 2019, at 13:01, Ivan Vučica  wrote:
>  
>  On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 1:17 PM Manuel Guesdon  
>  wrote:
> > 
> > - make a CNAME www.gnustep.org => gnustep.github.io (but server hosting
> >  gnustep.github.io should accept requests for www.gnustep.org)
>  
>  This merely requires creating a file named 'CNAME' in the github repo
>  for gnustep.github.io (i.e.
>  https://github.com/gnustep/gnustep.github.io).
>  
>  See 
>  https://help.github.com/en/github/working-with-github-pages/managing-a-custom-domain-for-your-github-pages-site
>  
> > I can't make a CNAME gnustep.org => gnustep.github.io (due to the way 
> > DNS
> > works) but I can make a 301 redirect http://gnustep.org
> > => http://www.gnustep.org
> 

Re: [ML] Re: Hosting of gnustep.org

[Gregory Casamento]

Nikolaus,

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 2:18 AM H. Nikolaus Schaller 
wrote:

>
> > Am 19.01.2021 um 00:36 schrieb Ivan Vučica :
> >
> > Some options:
> >
> > - Should we turn the index into a set of static pages generated from
> > MySQL data, which we then check in?
> > - If we turn each entry into a single .md file, we can perhaps
> > leverage https://github.com/allejo/jekyll-toc
>
> Hm.
>
> The page is highly interactive (searching/filtering/jumping) and accepts
> proposing updates. It is even counting access and building a TOP10 list.
>
> How should that work with static content?
>
> > - We could have a tiny nginx host which does nothing but route
> > requests to serving backends based on the path:
> >  - either proxy the request to gnustep.github.io,
> >  - or proxy it to a host with the software index (or even return a
> > 301 to something like index.gnustep.org)
>
> Keep it simple...
>
> Why not just redirect the entry point www.gnustep.org/index.html to
> the new page and leave the remainder like the softwareindex on the
> existing infrastructure (apache, php, mysql)?
>

The idea is to get off of the existing server.  I really would like to move
to something hosted on github or on some other server that we push changes
to more easily.

>
> This should suffice
>
> www.gnustep.org/index.html;
>
> https://gnustep.github.io/index.html"/>
>
>
> >
> > I can play with moving things around over some weekend, if I get
> > sufficient access to current host.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 6:03 PM H. Nikolaus Schaller 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >> I just recognized that making gnustep.org point somewhere else will
> break
> >>
> >> http://www.gnustep.org/softwareindex/
> >>
> >> unless this is moved as well.
> >> It is long ago that someone did set this up and it still works...
> >>
> >> The Software Index needs php, a httpd and a mysql database to be hosted
> somewhere. I am not sure if gnustep.github.io can provide this.
> >>
> >> BR,
> >> Nikolaus
> >>
> >>> Am 18.01.2021 um 18:26 schrieb Patryk Laurent :
> >>>
> >>> Hi Greg,
> >>>
> >>> Could we make a plan to implement pointing the domain to the
> Gitub-hosted site and/or delegate someone to do it?
> >>>
> >>> Aside from the navigation menu improvements already committed on the
> GitHub version of the site, we could also incorporate or link to sites to
> increase visibility e.g., https://teespring.com/stores/gnustep
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>> Patryk
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>  On Dec 18, 2019, at 13:01, Ivan Vučica  wrote:
> 
>  On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 1:17 PM Manuel Guesdon 
> wrote:
> >
> > - make a CNAME www.gnustep.org => gnustep.github.io (but server
> hosting
> >  gnustep.github.io should accept requests for www.gnustep.org)
> 
>  This merely requires creating a file named 'CNAME' in the github repo
>  for gnustep.github.io (i.e.
>  https://github.com/gnustep/gnustep.github.io).
> 
>  See
> https://help.github.com/en/github/working-with-github-pages/managing-a-custom-domain-for-your-github-pages-site
> 
> > I can't make a CNAME gnustep.org => gnustep.github.io (due to the
> way DNS
> > works) but I can make a 301 redirect http://gnustep.org
> > => http://www.gnustep.org
> 
>  Looks like Github documents the exact IPs that can be used:
> 
> https://help.github.com/en/github/working-with-github-pages/managing-a-custom-domain-for-your-github-pages-site#configuring-an-apex-domain
> 
>  Then again, 301 + CNAME for www are probably more maintainable.
> >>
> >>
>
>
>

-- 
Gregory Casamento
GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant
http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com
https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron
https://gf.me/u/x8m3sx - My GNUstep GoFundMe
https://teespring.com/stores/gnustep - Store

Re: [ML] Re: Hosting of gnustep.org

[H. Nikolaus Schaller]

> Am 19.01.2021 um 00:36 schrieb Ivan Vučica :
> 
> Some options:
> 
> - Should we turn the index into a set of static pages generated from
> MySQL data, which we then check in?
> - If we turn each entry into a single .md file, we can perhaps
> leverage https://github.com/allejo/jekyll-toc

Hm.

The page is highly interactive (searching/filtering/jumping) and accepts
proposing updates. It is even counting access and building a TOP10 list.

How should that work with static content?

> - We could have a tiny nginx host which does nothing but route
> requests to serving backends based on the path:
>  - either proxy the request to gnustep.github.io,
>  - or proxy it to a host with the software index (or even return a
> 301 to something like index.gnustep.org)

Keep it simple...

Why not just redirect the entry point www.gnustep.org/index.html to
the new page and leave the remainder like the softwareindex on the
existing infrastructure (apache, php, mysql)?

This should suffice

www.gnustep.org/index.html;

https://gnustep.github.io/index.html"/>


> 
> I can play with moving things around over some weekend, if I get
> sufficient access to current host.
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 6:03 PM H. Nikolaus Schaller  
> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> I just recognized that making gnustep.org point somewhere else will break
>> 
>> http://www.gnustep.org/softwareindex/
>> 
>> unless this is moved as well.
>> It is long ago that someone did set this up and it still works...
>> 
>> The Software Index needs php, a httpd and a mysql database to be hosted 
>> somewhere. I am not sure if gnustep.github.io can provide this.
>> 
>> BR,
>> Nikolaus
>> 
>>> Am 18.01.2021 um 18:26 schrieb Patryk Laurent :
>>> 
>>> Hi Greg,
>>> 
>>> Could we make a plan to implement pointing the domain to the Gitub-hosted 
>>> site and/or delegate someone to do it?
>>> 
>>> Aside from the navigation menu improvements already committed on the GitHub 
>>> version of the site, we could also incorporate or link to sites to increase 
>>> visibility e.g., https://teespring.com/stores/gnustep
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> Patryk
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Dec 18, 2019, at 13:01, Ivan Vučica  wrote:
 
 On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 1:17 PM Manuel Guesdon  wrote:
> 
> - make a CNAME www.gnustep.org => gnustep.github.io (but server hosting
>  gnustep.github.io should accept requests for www.gnustep.org)
 
 This merely requires creating a file named 'CNAME' in the github repo
 for gnustep.github.io (i.e.
 https://github.com/gnustep/gnustep.github.io).
 
 See 
 https://help.github.com/en/github/working-with-github-pages/managing-a-custom-domain-for-your-github-pages-site
 
> I can't make a CNAME gnustep.org => gnustep.github.io (due to the way DNS
> works) but I can make a 301 redirect http://gnustep.org
> => http://www.gnustep.org
 
 Looks like Github documents the exact IPs that can be used:
 https://help.github.com/en/github/working-with-github-pages/managing-a-custom-domain-for-your-github-pages-site#configuring-an-apex-domain
 
 Then again, 301 + CNAME for www are probably more maintainable.
>> 
>> 

Re: [ML] Re: Hosting of gnustep.org

[Ivan Vučica]

Some options:

- Should we turn the index into a set of static pages generated from
MySQL data, which we then check in?
- If we turn each entry into a single .md file, we can perhaps
leverage https://github.com/allejo/jekyll-toc
- We could have a tiny nginx host which does nothing but route
requests to serving backends based on the path:
  - either proxy the request to gnustep.github.io,
  - or proxy it to a host with the software index (or even return a
301 to something like index.gnustep.org)

I can play with moving things around over some weekend, if I get
sufficient access to current host.


On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 6:03 PM H. Nikolaus Schaller  wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I just recognized that making gnustep.org point somewhere else will break
>
> http://www.gnustep.org/softwareindex/
>
> unless this is moved as well.
> It is long ago that someone did set this up and it still works...
>
> The Software Index needs php, a httpd and a mysql database to be hosted 
> somewhere. I am not sure if gnustep.github.io can provide this.
>
> BR,
> Nikolaus
>
> > Am 18.01.2021 um 18:26 schrieb Patryk Laurent :
> >
> > Hi Greg,
> >
> > Could we make a plan to implement pointing the domain to the Gitub-hosted 
> > site and/or delegate someone to do it?
> >
> > Aside from the navigation menu improvements already committed on the GitHub 
> > version of the site, we could also incorporate or link to sites to increase 
> > visibility e.g., https://teespring.com/stores/gnustep
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Patryk
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Dec 18, 2019, at 13:01, Ivan Vučica  wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 1:17 PM Manuel Guesdon  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> - make a CNAME www.gnustep.org => gnustep.github.io (but server hosting
> >>>   gnustep.github.io should accept requests for www.gnustep.org)
> >>
> >> This merely requires creating a file named 'CNAME' in the github repo
> >> for gnustep.github.io (i.e.
> >> https://github.com/gnustep/gnustep.github.io).
> >>
> >> See 
> >> https://help.github.com/en/github/working-with-github-pages/managing-a-custom-domain-for-your-github-pages-site
> >>
> >>> I can't make a CNAME gnustep.org => gnustep.github.io (due to the way DNS
> >>> works) but I can make a 301 redirect http://gnustep.org
> >>> => http://www.gnustep.org
> >>
> >> Looks like Github documents the exact IPs that can be used:
> >>  
> >> https://help.github.com/en/github/working-with-github-pages/managing-a-custom-domain-for-your-github-pages-site#configuring-an-apex-domain
> >>
> >> Then again, 301 + CNAME for www are probably more maintainable.
>
>

Re: [ML] Re: Hosting of gnustep.org

[H. Nikolaus Schaller]

Hi,
I just recognized that making gnustep.org point somewhere else will break

http://www.gnustep.org/softwareindex/

unless this is moved as well.
It is long ago that someone did set this up and it still works...

The Software Index needs php, a httpd and a mysql database to be hosted 
somewhere. I am not sure if gnustep.github.io can provide this.

BR,
Nikolaus

> Am 18.01.2021 um 18:26 schrieb Patryk Laurent :
> 
> Hi Greg,
> 
> Could we make a plan to implement pointing the domain to the Gitub-hosted 
> site and/or delegate someone to do it?
> 
> Aside from the navigation menu improvements already committed on the GitHub 
> version of the site, we could also incorporate or link to sites to increase 
> visibility e.g., https://teespring.com/stores/gnustep
> 
> Best regards,
> Patryk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 18, 2019, at 13:01, Ivan Vučica  wrote:
>> 
>> On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 1:17 PM Manuel Guesdon  wrote:
>>> 
>>> - make a CNAME www.gnustep.org => gnustep.github.io (but server hosting
>>>   gnustep.github.io should accept requests for www.gnustep.org)
>> 
>> This merely requires creating a file named 'CNAME' in the github repo
>> for gnustep.github.io (i.e.
>> https://github.com/gnustep/gnustep.github.io).
>> 
>> See 
>> https://help.github.com/en/github/working-with-github-pages/managing-a-custom-domain-for-your-github-pages-site
>> 
>>> I can't make a CNAME gnustep.org => gnustep.github.io (due to the way DNS
>>> works) but I can make a 301 redirect http://gnustep.org
>>> => http://www.gnustep.org
>> 
>> Looks like Github documents the exact IPs that can be used:
>>  
>> https://help.github.com/en/github/working-with-github-pages/managing-a-custom-domain-for-your-github-pages-site#configuring-an-apex-domain
>> 
>> Then again, 301 + CNAME for www are probably more maintainable.

Re: [ML] Re: Hosting of gnustep.org

[Patryk Laurent]

Hi Greg,

Could we make a plan to implement pointing the domain to the Gitub-hosted site 
and/or delegate someone to do it?

Aside from the navigation menu improvements already committed on the GitHub 
version of the site, we could also incorporate or link to sites to increase 
visibility e.g., https://teespring.com/stores/gnustep

Best regards,
Patryk





> On Dec 18, 2019, at 13:01, Ivan Vučica  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 1:17 PM Manuel Guesdon  wrote:
>> 
>> - make a CNAME www.gnustep.org => gnustep.github.io (but server hosting
>>   gnustep.github.io should accept requests for www.gnustep.org)
> 
> This merely requires creating a file named 'CNAME' in the github repo
> for gnustep.github.io (i.e.
> https://github.com/gnustep/gnustep.github.io).
> 
> See 
> https://help.github.com/en/github/working-with-github-pages/managing-a-custom-domain-for-your-github-pages-site
> 
>> I can't make a CNAME gnustep.org => gnustep.github.io (due to the way DNS
>> works) but I can make a 301 redirect http://gnustep.org
>> => http://www.gnustep.org
> 
> Looks like Github documents the exact IPs that can be used:
>  
> https://help.github.com/en/github/working-with-github-pages/managing-a-custom-domain-for-your-github-pages-site#configuring-an-apex-domain
> 
> Then again, 301 + CNAME for www are probably more maintainable.

Re: [ML] Re: Hosting of gnustep.org

[Ivan Vučica]

On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 1:17 PM Manuel Guesdon  wrote:
>
> - make a CNAME www.gnustep.org => gnustep.github.io (but server hosting
>gnustep.github.io should accept requests for www.gnustep.org)

This merely requires creating a file named 'CNAME' in the github repo
for gnustep.github.io (i.e.
https://github.com/gnustep/gnustep.github.io).

See 
https://help.github.com/en/github/working-with-github-pages/managing-a-custom-domain-for-your-github-pages-site

> I can't make a CNAME gnustep.org => gnustep.github.io (due to the way DNS
> works) but I can make a 301 redirect http://gnustep.org
> => http://www.gnustep.org

Looks like Github documents the exact IPs that can be used:
  
https://help.github.com/en/github/working-with-github-pages/managing-a-custom-domain-for-your-github-pages-site#configuring-an-apex-domain

Then again, 301 + CNAME for www are probably more maintainable.

Re: [ML] Re: Hosting of gnustep.org

[Manuel Guesdon]

Hi !

On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 23:58:39 -0500
Gregory Casamento  wrote:
>| Difficult to explain.  I don't understand DNS entries well enough to make
>| them manually.   I'm going to see what I can do to make this happen.  More
>| research on my part is needed.

Nameservers for gnustep.org are still our servers.

I can easily do this:

- keep ftp.gnustep.org pointing on the current FTP site

- make a CNAME www.gnustep.org => gnustep.github.io (but server hosting
   gnustep.github.io should accept requests for www.gnustep.org)

I can't make a CNAME gnustep.org => gnustep.github.io (due to the way DNS
works) but I can make a 301 redirect http://gnustep.org
=> http://www.gnustep.org

Manuel

>| On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 11:42 PM Patryk Laurent  wrote:
>| 
>| >
>| > How about keeping ftp.gnustep.org pointed to the IP of the ftp site (as
>| > it is now), and then CNAME gnustep.org and www.gnustep.org to the new
>| > website location?
>| >
>| > This means ftp to just “gnustep.org” would stop working, so ftpers would
>| > have to use ftp.gnustep.org
>| >
>| > Patryk
>| >
>| >
>| > On Nov 14, 2019, at 19:37, Gregory Casamento 
>| > wrote:
>| >
>| >
>| > 
>| > Guys,
>| >
>| > We have an alternate website at gnustep.github.io.  Since it uses git and
>| > is more accessible than the one hosted on savannah I would like to move
>| > hosting of the website there.  I believe there is an entry which is
>  needed | > for the ftp site as well, I would like to leave that where it
>   currently
>| > is.   Moving it would be rather difficult since there is a lot of data
>| > there.
>| >
>| > Does anyone have any objections to doing this?  Also, if there are no
>| > objections, how do I move the ftp site.  Moving the website is easy, I
>  just | > need to do that at gandi.net, but the ftp site is more difficult.
>| >
>| > Thanks for any input you can provide.
>| >
>| > Yours, GC
>| > --
>| > Gregory Casamento
>| > GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant
>| > http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com
>| > http://ind.ie/phoenix/
>| >
>| > [image: Mailtrack]
>| >
>  
> 
>   Sender | > notified by
>| > Mailtrack
>| >
>  
> 
>   11/14/19, | > 10:33:09 PM
>| >
>| >
>| 


-- 
Cordialement,

Manuel Guesdon

--
__
Manuel Guesdon - OXYMIUM 
4 rue Auguste Gillot  -  93200 Saint-Denis  -  France
Standard: 0 811 093 286 (Cout d'un appel local)   Fax: +33 1 7473 3971
LD Support: +33 1 7473 3973   LD:  +33 1 7473 3980