Re: Interview with Derk Haank, CEO, Elsevier
on 2 Apr 2002 jean.claude.gue...@umontreal.ca wrote: Let me respond in the body of the text below. Le 1 Avril 2002 09:58, Stevan Harnad a écrit : On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Richard Poynder wrote: interview... with Elsevier Science chairman Derk Haank... in April's Information Today: http://www.infotoday.com/it/apr02/poynder.htm richard.poyn...@dsl.pipex.com http://www.richardpoynder.com The interview is interesting and shows the Elsevier chairman to be very reasonable, open and well-intentioned. I would rather say that he is clever and tries to avoid direct confrontation. I think that this confirms yet again that it is and always has been a waste of time and energy to demonize and vilify publishers like Elsevier, who really are not any better or worse than any other company, but just happen to find themselves in an anomalous business, with large profits but an unusual confluence of interests, including conflicts of interest, in a radically changing technological setting. It seems to me that a company that is intent on maintaining as high a profit rate as it can in the context of social transactions (information largely produced by public money, given away by their authors, reviewed freely by peers, and bought by libraries or research labs with largely public money) has to face the fact that its legitimacy will be hotly contested. I do believe that the intensense barrage if criticisms levelled at Elsevier and other similar companies has something to do with the Elsevier Chairman and his apparent reasonable stance... The 'profit motive' argument might have some standing if the private research universities that dominate sponsored research did not sport profits double those reported by Elsevier and other publishers. These universities have cut library spending by half in order to inflate their financial hoards. Moreover, universities have $1 billion in patent revenue now (which they did not have in 1980), resulting from sponsored research. They deprive library users of information generated by the rest of the world only because they have become skilled at academic 3-card Monte. Albert Henderson Pres., Chess Combination Inc. POB 2423 Bridgeport CT 06608-0423 a...@chessnic.com
Re: OAI and the rational publisher
Mark, I have two or three comments, based not just on this message but your last reply to Stevan 1. Of all the possible organizations, your's is the strongest and the most focused and therefore the best able to take the step. I think the result will be positive for your journals, as the best material from others may soon be looking for another home. 2. The readership of APS journals is not limited to the membership of APS. They are widely read in other fields--you do not serve only the physics community. (This is true is all academic fields.) 3. What exactly do you think is necessary for proper archiving beyond what Stevan's proposal calls for? 4. Can you envision any workable form of peer review that does _not_ involve journals? David Goodman Research Librarian and Biological Sciences Bibliographer Princeton University Library dgood...@princeton.edu609-258-7785 On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Mark Doyle wrote: Hi David, On Monday, April 1, 2002, at 05:26 PM, David Goodman wrote: The solution for a publisher is obvious: it should publish good journals, and only good journals. A publisher complaining about the threat of OAI suggests that it knows very well that the quality of its journals cannot compete. I don't really think that is universally the case. APS certainly has good quality journals, but we are still vulnerable to not being able to continue to publish the journals in the face of large cancellations. And there has been a steady decrease in subscriptions (for many reasons, over the last 30 years). It is an economic and financial reality that we don't have much wiggle room. We would also like to make our journals more widely available (ideally freely available). But we need a new model and it is very difficult for a single publisher to move unilaterally without support from institutions, fund agencies, and libraries. Thus, there is a reason for concern and it isn't irrational to worry about the transition to a new economic model. That doesn't mean the transition shouldn't take place though. Cheers, Mark
SPARC Debuts Gaining Independence free web manual
-- Forwarded message -- List-Post: goal@eprints.org List-Post: goal@eprints.org Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 13:56:49 -0500 From: Peter Suber pet...@earlham.edu To: fos-fo...@topica.com Subject: SPARC Debuts Gaining Independence free web manual For Immediate Release April 1, 2002 For more information, contact: Alison Buckholtz, 202-296-2296 x115 or ali...@arl.org http://www.arl.org/sparc SPARC DEBUTS GAINING INDEPENDENCE: WEB RESOURCE GUIDES LAUNCH OF NONPROFIT ELECTRONIC PUBLISHING VENTURES Handbook Aids Universities, Societies and Independent Publishers in Developing Start-Up Business Plans for Successful, Sustainable Electronic Ventures Washington, DC - SPARC (the Scholarly Publishing and Academic Resources Coalition) today launched Gaining Independence: A Manual for Planning the Launch of a Nonprofit Electronic Publishing Venture. This new publication, available on the Web free of charge at http://www.arl.org/sparc/GI, is a detailed, step-by-step guide leading readers through the creation of a business plan for start-up and early-stage electronic publishing ventures, including digital repositories and journals. Gaining Independence will help universities, libraries, societies and others conceive, plan and implement alternatives to commercially published scholarly and scientific information. It provides background on relevant electronic publishing models and focuses especially on areas of business planning that may be unfamiliar to those considering new communications initiatives. The manual includes sections on: Situational Assessment and Strategic Response; Technology and Technical Considerations; Markets, Marketing and Sales; Organization; Finances; and the Financial Plan and Operating Plan. A detailed appendix links readers to pertinent resources. Gaining Independence delivers smart advice and solid direction to potential publishers and entrepreneurs, whether at universities, libraries, learned societies, consortia or independent firms, said Dr. Mike Hannant, Publisher, The Royal Society of Chemistry. Its focus is on real-world concerns, with emphasis on matters that might get overlooked, such as proof-of-concept, marketing and financing, and these areas build a foundation for the long-term viability of new electronic ventures. Gaining Independence guides potential publishers through a process to make sure each new product is sustainable. Gaining Independence offers a practical approach to planning and implementing competitive electronic publishing ventures, said Michael J. Bass, Hewlett-Packard Company's External Engagement Manager for the MIT/HP DSpace Project. Universities, societies and other institutions which want to create, build support for, and communicate a strategy for their electronic journals, digital repositories and other projects will be well-served by Gaining Independence and its emphasis on business planning and long-term viability. SPARC was founded as a constructive response to market inequities in the scholarly communication system, said Rick Johnson, SPARC Enterprise Director. Gaining Independence is another step toward building a system that serves the needs of the scholarly community and facilitates effective partnerships between scholars and their institutions or societies. Our aim for Gaining Independence is to help make alternative scholarly initiatives mainstream and self-sustaining by emphasizing the application of sound business planning practices. Gaining Independence complements Declaring Independence: A Guide to Creating Community-Controlled Science Journals, which SPARC and the Triangle Research Libraries Network introduced in early 2001. Declaring Independence is available on the Web at http://www.arl.org/sparc/DI and the printed handbook is available free of charge by emailing p...@arl.org. Gaining Independence is also a follow-on to Create Change: New Systems of Scholarly Communication, an issues-based brochure and web resource available at http://www.createchange.org. ### SPARC is a coalition of research universities and libraries supporting increased competition in scholarly publishing. Its membership currently numbers approximately 200 institutions and library consortia in North America, Australia, New Zealand and Asia. SPARC Europe, a regionally focused initiative, is being launched in 2002. SPARC is also affiliated with major library organizations in Canada, the U.K. and Ireland, Denmark, Australia and the USA. SPARC is located on the web at http://www.arl.org/sparc; SPARC Europe is located on the web at http://www.sparceurope.org. ++ Alison Buckholtz Associate Enterprise Director SPARC -- The Scholarly Publishing Academic Resources Coalition 21 Dupont Circle, Ste. 800, Washington, DC 20036 USA T: 202 296 2296 x115 * F: 202 872 0884 * E: ali...@arl.org http://www.arl.org/sparchttp://www.sparceurope.org http://www.arl.org/sparc/DI
Re: Interview with Derk Haank, CEO, Elsevier
On Tue, Apr 02, 2002 at 02:27:05PM -0500, Albert Henderson wrote: The 'profit motive' argument might have some standing if the private research universities that dominate sponsored research did not sport profits double those reported by Elsevier and other publishers. These universities have cut library spending by half in order to inflate their financial hoards. Moreover, universities have $1 billion in patent revenue now (which they did not have in 1980), resulting from sponsored research. They deprive library users of information generated by the rest of the world only because they have become skilled at academic 3-card Monte. Let's burn them all. They rob the people and Elsevier. They do not deserve to live. Let's also burn all African universities who hoard their profits to keep their countrymen in misery and ignorance. Thanks Albert. Now I see the light. bernard.l...@inria.fr Tel +33 1 3963 5644 http://pauillac.inria.fr/~lang/ Fax +33 1 3963 5469 INRIA / B.P. 105 / 78153 Le Chesnay CEDEX / France Je n'exprime que mon opinion - I express only my opinion CAGED BEHIND WINDOWS or FREE WITH LINUX Non aux Brevets Logiciels - No to Software Patents SIGNEZhttp://petition.eurolinux.org/SIGN
Re: Interview with Derk Haank, CEO, Elsevier
At 15:14 01/04/02 -0600, Thomas Krichel writes: Bernard Lang writes: The one important point I read there is: DH You can put your paper on your own Web site if you want. The only DH thing we insist on is that if we publish your article you don't DH publish it in a Springer or Wiley journal, too. In fact, I believe we DH have the most liberal copyright policy available. Is that what the Elsevier copyright form says ? Yes, at least one that was common for economics journals a few years ago. However, as far as I am aware off, that policy is not posted on any Elsevier web site. Furthermore, he did not say anything about putting it on another web site. On an open archive managed by someone else ? The concept of own web site is a fuzzy one. I have in my drawer a copy of copyright signed with Elsevier about 8 months ago by a researcher of my lab. Below, part of Rights of authors : Posting of a preprint version of this work on an electronic public server is permitted. Posting of the published article on a secure network (not accessible to the public) within the author's institution is permitted. However, posting of the published article on an electronic public server can only be done with Elsevier's written permission. This seems more precise than is the interview. What is your feeling? Helene Bosc Bibliotheque Unite Physiologie de la Reproduction et des Comportements UMR 6073 INRA-CNRS-Universite F. Rabelais 37380 Nouzilly France http://www.tours.inra.fr/ TEL : 02 47 42 78 00 FAX : 02 47 42 77 43 e-mail: hb...@tours.inra.fr
Re: Interview with Derk Haank, CEO, Elsevier
At 11:44 03/04/2002 +0100, you wrote: At 15:14 01/04/02 -0600, Thomas Krichel writes: Bernard Lang writes: The one important point I read there is: DH You can put your paper on your own Web site if you want. The only DH thing we insist on is that if we publish your article you don't DH publish it in a Springer or Wiley journal, too. In fact, I believe we DH have the most liberal copyright policy available. Is that what the Elsevier copyright form says ? Yes, at least one that was common for economics journals a few years ago. However, as far as I am aware off, that policy is not posted on any Elsevier web site. Furthermore, he did not say anything about putting it on another web site. On an open archive managed by someone else ? The concept of own web site is a fuzzy one. I have in my drawer a copy of copyright signed with Elsevier about 8 months ago by a researcher of my lab. Below, part of Rights of authors : Posting of a preprint version of this work on an electronic public server is permitted. Posting of the published article on a secure network (not accessible to the public) within the author's institution is permitted. However, posting of the published article on an electronic public server can only be done with Elsevier's written permission. This seems more precise than is the interview. What is your feeling? Helene Bosc Bibliotheque Unite Physiologie de la Reproduction et des Comportements UMR 6073 INRA-CNRS-Universite F. Rabelais 37380 Nouzilly France Below is some text from the interview that didn't make it into the final version due to length constraints. It may or may not help to clarify things, but here it is anyway. Richard Poynder: If an academic went to an Elsevier journal and said I want to retain the copyright on my paper for self-archiving purposes the editors would accept that? Derk Haank: We can't have individual negotiations with every individual author. People transfer copyright, but at the same time we grant them usage for anything else other than in a commercial or society journal, so you can put it in your reader, you can put it on your own web site, and you can put it on the university web site etc., but for official publishing uses we expect exclusivity. Richard Poynder: And that is stated in the copyright form they sign? Derk Haank: Yes. Copyright has proved a very well understood way to make clear that that is what is happening, but I am open for discussions with regard to the author retaining the copyright if that serves anybody better.
Re: Interview with Derk Haank, CEO, Elsevier
Private research universities do not dominate research. They only play an important role in research, and this mainly in the US, not elsewhere. In Europe, this is completely untrue. Moreover, even US private universities depend heavily on public money to carry on their research. NSF, DoD and the like feed MIT, Harvard , Stanford et tutti quanti. Finally, private US research universities are not for profit organizations. I would also like to point out that the hoarding rhetoric is out of bound... Soap boxes are confined to Hyde Park! Whether universities have more revenue than before is totally beside the point as I do not see why this extra revenue should be automatically allocated to buying over-priced journals from the Elseviers of the world. I would rather see universities spend their money on research or scholarships. Finally, where did you ever get the fact that universities have cut their library spending in half? The problem, Mr. Henderson, is that you come back and back with the same faulty arguments over and over again, as if you were a soldier obeying some kind of orders to stonewall whatever is stated on e-publishing lists that does not conform to the business logic of large commercial publishers. Haven't you noticed that this attitude has already discredited you in the eyes of most of the readers of this list? This is perhaps the reason why you responded to me personally and not to the whole list. As you can see, I am responding to you with the whole list in attendance. Jean-Claude Guédon Le 2 Avril 2002 14:27, Albert Henderson a écrit : on 2 Apr 2002 jean.claude.gue...@umontreal.ca wrote: Let me respond in the body of the text below. Le 1 Avril 2002 09:58, Stevan Harnad a écrit : On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Richard Poynder wrote: interview... with Elsevier Science chairman Derk Haank... in April's Information Today: http://www.infotoday.com/it/apr02/poynder.htm richard.poyn...@dsl.pipex.com http://www.richardpoynder.com The interview is interesting and shows the Elsevier chairman to be very reasonable, open and well-intentioned. I would rather say that he is clever and tries to avoid direct confrontation. I think that this confirms yet again that it is and always has been a waste of time and energy to demonize and vilify publishers like Elsevier, who really are not any better or worse than any other company, but just happen to find themselves in an anomalous business, with large profits but an unusual confluence of interests, including conflicts of interest, in a radically changing technological setting. It seems to me that a company that is intent on maintaining as high a profit rate as it can in the context of social transactions (information largely produced by public money, given away by their authors, reviewed freely by peers, and bought by libraries or research labs with largely public money) has to face the fact that its legitimacy will be hotly contested. I do believe that the intensense barrage if criticisms levelled at Elsevier and other similar companies has something to do with the Elsevier Chairman and his apparent reasonable stance... The 'profit motive' argument might have some standing if the private research universities that dominate sponsored research did not sport profits double those reported by Elsevier and other publishers. These universities have cut library spending by half in order to inflate their financial hoards. Moreover, universities have $1 billion in patent revenue now (which they did not have in 1980), resulting from sponsored research. They deprive library users of information generated by the rest of the world only because they have become skilled at academic 3-card Monte. Albert Henderson Pres., Chess Combination Inc. POB 2423 Bridgeport CT 06608-0423 a...@chessnic.com
