[GOAL] Re: Is CC-BY analogous to toll access?
This has got to be among the most specious arguments against less-restrictive open access that I've ever heard. If I take free tires from a landfill and turn them into sandals and sell them, is that a bad thing? Doesn't prevent anyone else from taking the tires and making their own sandals. If I take photographs of a national park and sell them, is that a bad thing? Doesn't prevent anyone else from taking their own snapshots. Pat On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 10:20 PM, Michael Eisen mbei...@gmail.com wrote: This is one of the most ludicrous arguments I have ever heard. I requires mental gymnastics of an absurd kind to equate a system in which people use copyright to heavily restrict content to a system in which works are freely available in perpetuity. If people can build services built on top of the literature and people want to pay for them, even when the underlying content is freely available, that is the definition of added value, and is in no way comparable to a system in which the underlying content is private property. On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Heather Morrison hgmor...@sfu.ca wrote: A problem with CC-BY: permitting downstream use with no strings attached is the toll access model The Creative Commons - Attribution (CC-BY) only license grants blanket permission rights for commercial use to any third party downstream. Proponents of CC-BY argue that this will open up the possibility for new commercial services to serve scholarship. This may or may not be; this is a speculative argument at this point. However, if this happens, this opens up the possibility that these new services will be made available on a toll access basis, because none of the CC-BY licenses is specific to works that are free of charge. This is very similar to the current model for dissemination of scholarship. Scholarly research is largely funded by the public, whether through research grants or university salaries. Scholars must make their work public (publish) in order to continue to receive grants, retain their jobs and advance in their careers. They give away their work to publishers with no strings attached, often signing away all copyright. A few publishers have taken advantage of this system to lock up scholarship for their private profit. One potential outcome of a CC-BY default for scholarship is a next generation of Elsevier-like toll access services. Many scholars and the public whose work was given away through CC-BY could be unable to afford the latest and best services made possible by their contributions. This is just one of the reasons to give serious thought to this matter before recommending a CC-BY default. For more, please see my Creative Commons and open access critique series. Thanks to Heather Piwowar for posting an opposing view on google g+ that helped me to work through this argument. from: http://poeticeconomics.blogspot.ca/2013/03/a-problem-with-cc-by-permitting.html best, Heather Morrison, PhD The Imaginary Journal of Poetic Economics http://poeticeconomics.blogspot.com ___ GOAL mailing list GOAL@eprints.org http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal -- Michael Eisen, Ph.D. Investigator, Howard Hughes Medical Institute Associate Professor, Department of Molecular and Cell Biology University of California, Berkeley ___ GOAL mailing list GOAL@eprints.org http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal -- Support open access to the scientific literature www.publiclibraryofscience.org ___ GOAL mailing list GOAL@eprints.org http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal
[GOAL] Re: Is CC-BY analogous to toll access?
Morning all, I don't understand either of the arguments on the list this morning, but maybe tits just Friday:- * If someone takes freely available content, and then adds value to it I would expect them to try and get recompense or make a profit from that. If so, they are welcome to do so. If it is a worthwhile endeavour then people will pay for it (or, if it is worthwhile and repeatable, people will take the freely available content and do it themselves, IP permitting). If it is not, then people will go back to the original, freely available literature. If it is a commercial enterprise investing in work to add value, I see no problem in this. The public funded research is still freely available. The commercially funded 'added value' is available at a cost. * If someone takes a sentence from a CC-BY piece of work, then adds a 'NOT' into it and misrepresents the author, you have recourse to either force them to remove the attribution, or take legal action against them I would assume if it could be construed as libel etc. This isn't really unique to anything under a CC-BY licence however. If someone is going to misrepresent a piece of work deliberately, then I doubt copyright restrictions are high on their list of things to check. Kind regards James James Bisset Academic Liaison Librarian (Research Support) Durham University Library Stockton Road Durham DH1 3LY Tel: +44 (0)191 334 1586 From: goal-boun...@eprints.org [mailto:goal-boun...@eprints.org] On Behalf Of Michael Eisen Sent: 15 March 2013 05:20 To: Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci) Subject: [GOAL] Re: Is CC-BY analogous to toll access? This is one of the most ludicrous arguments I have ever heard. I requires mental gymnastics of an absurd kind to equate a system in which people use copyright to heavily restrict content to a system in which works are freely available in perpetuity. If people can build services built on top of the literature and people want to pay for them, even when the underlying content is freely available, that is the definition of added value, and is in no way comparable to a system in which the underlying content is private property. On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Heather Morrison hgmor...@sfu.camailto:hgmor...@sfu.ca wrote: A problem with CC-BY: permitting downstream use with no strings attached is the toll access model The Creative Commons - Attribution (CC-BY) only license grants blanket permission rights for commercial use to any third party downstream. Proponents of CC-BY argue that this will open up the possibility for new commercial services to serve scholarship. This may or may not be; this is a speculative argument at this point. However, if this happens, this opens up the possibility that these new services will be made available on a toll access basis, because none of the CC-BY licenses is specific to works that are free of charge. This is very similar to the current model for dissemination of scholarship. Scholarly research is largely funded by the public, whether through research grants or university salaries. Scholars must make their work public (publish) in order to continue to receive grants, retain their jobs and advance in their careers. They give away their work to publishers with no strings attached, often signing away all copyright. A few publishers have taken advantage of this system to lock up scholarship for their private profit. One potential outcome of a CC-BY default for scholarship is a next generation of Elsevier-like toll access services. Many scholars and the public whose work was given away through CC-BY could be unable to afford the latest and best services made possible by their contributions. This is just one of the reasons to give serious thought to this matter before recommending a CC-BY default. For more, please see my Creative Commons and open access critique series. Thanks to Heather Piwowar for posting an opposing view on google g+ that helped me to work through this argument. from: http://poeticeconomics.blogspot.ca/2013/03/a-problem-with-cc-by-permitting.html best, Heather Morrison, PhD The Imaginary Journal of Poetic Economics http://poeticeconomics.blogspot.com ___ GOAL mailing list GOAL@eprints.orgmailto:GOAL@eprints.org http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal -- Michael Eisen, Ph.D. Investigator, Howard Hughes Medical Institute Associate Professor, Department of Molecular and Cell Biology University of California, Berkeley ___ GOAL mailing list GOAL@eprints.org http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal
[GOAL] Re: Is CC-BY analogous to toll access?
Surely this is a red herring. Open access is about making the papers freely available, not about making any services that can be built on top of them freely (or 'cheaply', however we want to define 'cheaply') available. If somebody can make a lot of money mining the literature and identifying the ten exactly apposite papers for the problem a pharmaceutical company is trying to solve then good luck to them! The ten papers are still going to be open access. David On 14 Mar 2013, at 16:57, Heather Morrison wrote: A problem with CC-BY: permitting downstream use with no strings attached is the toll access model The Creative Commons - Attribution (CC-BY) only license grants blanket permission rights for commercial use to any third party downstream. Proponents of CC-BY argue that this will open up the possibility for new commercial services to serve scholarship. This may or may not be; this is a speculative argument at this point. However, if this happens, this opens up the possibility that these new services will be made available on a toll access basis, because none of the CC-BY licenses is specific to works that are free of charge. This is very similar to the current model for dissemination of scholarship. Scholarly research is largely funded by the public, whether through research grants or university salaries. Scholars must make their work public (publish) in order to continue to receive grants, retain their jobs and advance in their careers. They give away their work to publishers with no strings attached, often signing away all copyright. A few publishers have taken advantage of this system to lock up scholarship for their private profit. One potential outcome of a CC-BY default for scholarship is a next generation of Elsevier-like toll access services. Many scholars and the public whose work was given away through CC-BY could be unable to afford the latest and best services made possible by their contributions. This is just one of the reasons to give serious thought to this matter before recommending a CC-BY default. For more, please see my Creative Commons and open access critique series. Thanks to Heather Piwowar for posting an opposing view on google g+ that helped me to work through this argument. from: http://poeticeconomics.blogspot.ca/2013/03/a-problem-with-cc-by-permitting.html best, Heather Morrison, PhD The Imaginary Journal of Poetic Economics http://poeticeconomics.blogspot.com ___ GOAL mailing list GOAL@eprints.org http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal ___ GOAL mailing list GOAL@eprints.org http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal
[GOAL] Re: Is CC-BY analogous to toll access?
This is one of the most ludicrous arguments I have ever heard. I requires mental gymnastics of an absurd kind to equate a system in which people use copyright to heavily restrict content to a system in which works are freely available in perpetuity. If people can build services built on top of the literature and people want to pay for them, even when the underlying content is freely available, that is the definition of added value, and is in no way comparable to a system in which the underlying content is private property. On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Heather Morrison hgmor...@sfu.ca wrote: A problem with CC-BY: permitting downstream use with no strings attached is the toll access model The Creative Commons - Attribution (CC-BY) only license grants blanket permission rights for commercial use to any third party downstream. Proponents of CC-BY argue that this will open up the possibility for new commercial services to serve scholarship. This may or may not be; this is a speculative argument at this point. However, if this happens, this opens up the possibility that these new services will be made available on a toll access basis, because none of the CC-BY licenses is specific to works that are free of charge. This is very similar to the current model for dissemination of scholarship. Scholarly research is largely funded by the public, whether through research grants or university salaries. Scholars must make their work public (publish) in order to continue to receive grants, retain their jobs and advance in their careers. They give away their work to publishers with no strings attached, often signing away all copyright. A few publishers have taken advantage of this system to lock up scholarship for their private profit. One potential outcome of a CC-BY default for scholarship is a next generation of Elsevier-like toll access services. Many scholars and the public whose work was given away through CC-BY could be unable to afford the latest and best services made possible by their contributions. This is just one of the reasons to give serious thought to this matter before recommending a CC-BY default. For more, please see my Creative Commons and open access critique series. Thanks to Heather Piwowar for posting an opposing view on google g+ that helped me to work through this argument. from: http://poeticeconomics.blogspot.ca/2013/03/a-problem-with-cc-by-permitting.html best, Heather Morrison, PhD The Imaginary Journal of Poetic Economics http://poeticeconomics.blogspot.com ___ GOAL mailing list GOAL@eprints.org http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal -- Michael Eisen, Ph.D. Investigator, Howard Hughes Medical Institute Associate Professor, Department of Molecular and Cell Biology University of California, Berkeley ___ GOAL mailing list GOAL@eprints.org http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal
