Re: [Goanet] Re: Goans headed for minority status in Goa
--- floriano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > For me winning or losing does > not matter but going into > the fight does. > > regards > Floriano ... And I am 100% with you all the way. Cheers, Gabriel. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News: Get the latest news via video today! http://au.news.yahoo.com/video/
Re: [Goanet] Re: Goans headed for minority status in Goa
Dear Lawrence, Your warped mental composure reflect exactly what is happening in Goa as it has been happening since 1961. To simplify what I am saying, Goa Su-Raj Party acknowledges that Candidates want to win by hook or by crook to further their personal agenda by spending loads of money they have looted from the people as their representatives or as newcomers by unfair means. It looks like only 207 people volunteered to open up their purses to see me win. They are not asking back what they generously gave. Even if they did, they would get a flat 'NO'. But if you act as their commission recovery agent, it might help some. I did offer my services to the people of Goa through the people of Taleigao. And it was in their hands to get me elected if they wanted to help themselves. But unfortunately they wanted to help Babus Monserrate. It is their choice. And that was well known to me even before I filed my nomination papers. Hence that is the reason I say "winning was farthest away from my mind" I suggest you look up the dictionary to know what is "breach of trust" . And I do not need to learn from one Lawrence Rodrigues what politics is all about. Even if I taught you what a people's candidate really is, you wouldn't learn. You must try to understand, however hard it may be, that I was the candidate of 207 people from Taleigao and they have taken their own defeat like heroes. For me winning or losing does not matter but going into the fight does. regards Floriano - Original Message - From: "Lawrence Rodrigues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Goanet" Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [Goanet] Re: Goans headed for minority status in Goa << ...Getting elected was farthest away from my mind or from my Party's agenda. : ...Needless to say that I have not spent a single rupee of my own. Every rupee of the 1,33,000/- that I spent was people's money... >> Floriano Seems Goa Su-Raj party should attempt to return the people's money it used in contesting elections it had *no intention* of winning. Do believe that using public money to further one's *personal agenda* may also be termed as *breach of trust*, *fraud*, etc., under the Indian Penal Code. Lawrence -- Need a *Gmail* e-mail ID? Do write to me. Will send you an invitation to open a *Gmail* e-mail account. :-)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Goans headed for minority status in Goa
<< ...Getting elected was farthest away from my mind or from my Party's agenda. : ...Needless to say that I have not spent a single rupee of my own. Every rupee of the 1,33,000/- that I spent was people's money... >> Floriano Seems Goa Su-Raj party should attempt to return the people's money it used in contesting elections it had *no intention* of winning. Do believe that using public money to further one's *personal agenda* may also be termed as *breach of trust*, *fraud*, etc., under the Indian Penal Code. Lawrence -- Need a *Gmail* e-mail ID? Do write to me. Will send you an invitation to open a *Gmail* e-mail account. :-)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Goans headed for minority status in Goa
Hi Carlos,
Thanks for the title of honesty you have put on my head. But let me say here
that even an utmost dishonest person feels he is the most honest Joe around.
Honesty is a measure with the tape ('maap' in Konkani) in the hands of the
society.
Let me cite a story of a village robber, told to me by my late grandmother,
when I was a kiddo.
"The village robber made a sign of the Cross and prayed before he climbed
the neighbour's coconut tree to steal coconut."
Who says that the robber does not need the Devine help in order not to get
caught??? Don't our ministers double over to do Poojas and/or stand first
in the line to receive Holy Communion and/or break their heads doing the
NAMAJs and then going on a spree of pocketting everything in site?
And about my being bitter cause I lost the Taleigao by-election:
Getting elected was farthest away from my mind or from my Party's agenda.
The agenda was that we had to field at least one candidate in those
by-elections when we had been announcing that we will field candidates in
all five constituencies. None coming forward was the reason that I took the
mantle on my head. Moreover, I have told most of the people (during my door
to door limited campaign) who were afraid that BJP might win with me in
the fray and who questioned my wisdom in contesting, saying "vote for
Congress by all means. I am here only to announce to Goans at large that a
Party called Goa Su-Raj exists. (I interviewed two prospective candidates
for Benaulim. Both wanted to spend lacs of rupees. My question to them was
"Is this your hard earned money?" "Yes Ofcourse" they said. "Then have you
thought of putting those lacs in fix-deposit in your child/childrens' name
instead of wasting them on louts and drunks?" They had no answer and they
did not get our tickets.
Needless to say that I have not spent a single rupee of my own. Every rupee
of the 1,33,000/- that I spent was people's money for people's candidate
(207 of them to be exact). It is another thing that Taligao-kars voted for
Babus and not for themselves.
rgds
Floriano
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Re: Goans headed for minority status in Goa
George & Floriano,
Floriano is right to be upset. Here is an honest person who could not
get elected. We know that a corrupt society supports/elects corrupt
leaders. To change things in Goa assembly, we need to have a minimum of
21 honest leaders with a vision. Is this possible when we have a
corrupt society? One or Two honest leaders or even an honest CM will
not be able to survive too long in power. And what role should the
church play in a corrupt society?
But lets keep hope alive Otherwise there is no point living.
When I was in Goa last month, I heard from reliable sources that the
muslim population is rising drastically in Goa, followed by a moderate
increase in Hindu population and a comparitevely small increase in
christian population. The increase in muslim and hindu population is
mostly due to the new comers. I will not be suprised to see very soon
the Muslim population in Goa larger than the Christian population. When
(not if) that happens, will Goa still be a peacefull place to live or
will it be like any other heavily populated muslim cities in India? The
good thing in this may be the people in Goa will wake up early after
hearing a wake up call from the Iman. Will the foreign tourist still
consider Goa a safe destination?
Regards,
Carlos
>From: George Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Goa's premiere mailing list,estb.
1994!" >
>To: Goanet
>Subject: [Goanet] Re: Goans headed for minority status in Goa
>Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:40:22 -0800 (PST)
>
>--- floriano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > No! I am not skeptical. Goans deserve the boot.
>
>
>Floriano
>
>People deserve the leaders they elect. Goans seem to have dug their
own >graves.
>
>Regards,
>George
>
Re: [Goanet] Re: Goans headed for minority status in Goa
--- George Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Mario, your poor comprehension of my posts in this > thread should not stop you from contributing > intelligently to this discussion. Please interrupt > your mindless parroting of Republican > propaganda on this forum and take the time to read > carefully what is written. I have not lectured > Goans on what they should do - the voters are free > to elect any of the corrupt leaders they > choose. They are also free to reach for the stars or > the sewer. I support decisions Goans make > democratically, if THEY are making the decisions. > Mario responds: > George says, "I support the decisions Goans make democratically, if THEY make the decisions". Maybe I'm missing something here. > The last time I checked, Goa was not a dictatorship but part of an old democracy, and, as required in a democracy, Goans elect and re-elect their political leaders every few years. So, in this context, what is GEORGE'S concept of THEY - Goans - making the decisions? > And if GEORGE respects THEIR political decisions, then why is GEORGE warning them of dire consequences and of getting what THEY "deserve"? > Since you have brought American politics into this thread, George, for reasons that are as opaque as your reasons for lecturing Goan Goans about what's good for them while living in America, I must remind Goanetters, who may be puzzled by your concern, of what a classic American Democrat liberal like you is: "One who knows what's good for everyone else, better that THEY do". >
[Goanet] Re: Goans headed for minority status in Goa
--- JOANITA FERNANDEZ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > George, > > Is there a solution for the below mentioned problem? > If so, what is the solution for this problem? > Or are we just repeating on goanet the well know problem, just like the Goan > politicians.> Hi Cip, If you are asking what is my solution, the answer is no individual acting alone can effect change. There has to be collective answer to Goa's challenges and the initiative must come from the population, a majority of which are sadly indifferent to what is happening in Goa. As an expat Goan I have been careful not to provide "answers" and tell Goans what to do. Btw, did this issue come up at the NRI [sic] Goan convention recently or were NRGs busy begging for handouts from the Goa govt., including maintenance of their ancestral properties? Regards, George
[Goanet] Re: Goans headed for minority status in Goa
Mario, your poor comprehension of my posts in this thread should not stop you from contributing intelligently to this discussion. Please interrupt your mindless parroting of Republican propaganda on this forum and take the time to read carefully what is written. I have not lectured Goans on what they should do - the voters are free to elect any of the corrupt leaders they choose. They are also free to reach for the stars or the sewer. I support decisions Goans make democratically, if THEY are making the decisions. Regards, George --- Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I see you are reduced to mindlessly parroting what I wrote > As I said before, you are entitled to your opinion, > but the Goans who live in Goa are making individual > and collective decisions that they believe are in > their best interests, and don't need self-serving > non-residents to lecture them on what they ought to be > doing, or warning them of dire consequences if they > don't.
Re: [Goanet] Re: Goans headed for minority status in Goa
> --- Mario Goveia wrote: > > > > > George, > > You are entitled to your opinion, but I continue to find it > > ironic that you, who don't even live in Goa, are so > > concerned about what the Goans who live in Goa > > individually and collectively choose to do or what > > they "deserve", warning them of dire consequences as if they > > don't know what is in their best interests. > --- George Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Mario, I find it ironic that you, who don't even live in Iraq, > are so concerned about what the Iraqis who live in Iraq > etc. > Mario responds: > I see you are reduced to mindlessly parroting what I wrote, George, but parrots, as you may or may not know, have no idea what they are talking about. > I have not presumed to advise the Iraqis as to what is good or bad for them. I have not warned them of dire consequences if they do something I disapprove of, or threatened them darkly that they will get what they "deserve", all of which you have done with regard to the Goans who live in Goa, all while abandoning Goa for your own personal benefit. It is the Iraqis themselves, who have, on their own, ratified a new constitution and elected a government that they see as in their own interests, without any advice from me. > All I have done is to encourage them and cheer them on, and be proud that it was my countrymen that volunteered to shed their own blood in order to liberate them. Similarly, with the Goans who choose to live in Goa, all I do is to encourage them to do what they believe is in their best interests, to support whatever decisions they may make individually or collectively, and to defend them against those like yourself who presume to lecture them as to "what's best" for them and threaten them from afar. > George writes: > > I am a Goan with one foot physically planted firmly outside > Goa and one foot elsewhere, including ties to Goa. In this > inter-conncected world, emotionally, musically, culturally, > etc. - very Goan. > Mario writes: > Planting your feet "physically" so firmly on both sides of the globe could eventually result in a painful hernia. > How Goan can you really be, when you don't live there most of the time? Such bombastic comments mean nothing. We call this talking the talk, as opposed to walking the walk, which is what the residents of Goa have to live with 24/7/365. > As I said before, you are entitled to your opinion, but the Goans who live in Goa are making individual and collective decisions that they believe are in their best interests, and don't need self-serving non-residents to lecture them on what they ought to be doing, or warning them of dire consequences if they don't. >
Re: [Goanet] Re: Goans headed for minority status in Goa
George & Floriano, Floriano is right to be upset. Here is an honest person who could not get elected. We know that a corrupt society supports/elects corrupt leaders. To change things in Goa assembly, we need to have a minimum of 21 honest leaders with a vision. Is this possible when we have a corrupt society? One or Two honest leaders or even an honest CM will not be able to survive too long in power. And what role should the church play in a corrupt society? But lets keep hope alive Otherwise there is no point living. When I was in Goa last month, I heard from reliable sources that the muslim population is rising drastically in Goa, followed by a moderate increase in Hindu population and a comparitevely small increase in christian population. The increase in muslim and hindu population is mostly due to the new comers. I will not be suprised to see very soon the Muslim population in Goa larger than the Christian population. When (not if) that happens, will Goa still be a peacefull place to live or will it be like any other heavily populated muslim cities in India? The good thing in this may be the people in Goa will wake up early after hearing a wake up call from the Iman. Will the foreign tourist still consider Goa a safe destination? Regards, Carlos From: George Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Goa's premiere mailing list,estb. 1994!" > To: Goanet Subject: [Goanet] Re: Goans headed for minority status in Goa Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:40:22 -0800 (PST) --- floriano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > No! I am not skeptical. Goans deserve the boot. Floriano People deserve the leaders they elect. Goans seem to have dug their own >graves. Regards, George
RE: [Goanet] Re: Goans headed for minority status in Goa
Tio Alfy, You must be joking. Recent posts on Goanet show that a few revel in the graves that have been dug! BC > > > "Dug" & done or are still in the process of digging? > > AT > > > > ___ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[Goanet] RE: Goans headed for minority status in Goa
Hello Netters Wish there was someone like Balasaab Thakrey of Mumbai in Goa. Goa once upon a time had specific jobs done by specific people. Like there was maar people who used to do all types of handcrafts, and also stitching houses the ones with tiles and many other jobs. Gawdi for hard labor, digging new wells. There was no scarcity of work for them. But gradually with improved conditions and people shifting to houses with no tiles, mostly flats selling their houses for non Goans, fields lying barren, these people had to look for other venues for jobs and as schedule caste easily got good jobs in the government. As there was no one to do the jobs they used to do, as the educated lot would rather remain jobless than work in those places, non Goans got the chance to enter Goa, hence the influx of non Goans in Goa. Unlike in gulf countries or countries across the border where visa is a must, only the one with Visa can work, these non Goans brought their whole families and hence started getting all benefits which was actually meant for Goans, like free education, tax less salaries (collectively) which sometimes amount to more than many in Goa with good positions earn, and than our good leaders who simply love the chairs even provided some with ration cards. So now they are as good as Goans. Who get better jobs, and us Goans have to look for jobs outside Goa. Pity us Goans who choose leaders without thinking. Pity us strangers in our own land. My apologies for using the terms Maar and Gawdi. Cheers Jerry Fernandes
[Goanet] Re: Goans headed for minority status in Goa
Mario, I find it ironic that you, who don't even live in Iraq, are so concerned about what the Iraqis who live in Iraq etc. I am a Goan with one foot physically planted firmly outside Goa and one foot elsewhere, including ties to Goa. In this inter-conncected world, emotionally, musically, culturally, etc. - very Goan. Regards, George --- Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Mario observes: > > > George, > You are entitled to your opinion, but I continue to > find it ironic that you, who don't even live in Goa, > are so concerned about what the Goans who live in Goa > individually and collectively choose to do or what > they "deserve", warning them of dire consequences as > if they don't know what is in their best interests.
Re: [Goanet] Re: Goans headed for minority status in Goa
--- George Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- floriano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > No! I am not skeptical. Goans deserve the boot. > > Floriano > > People deserve the leaders they elect. Goans seem to > have dug their own graves. > Mario observes: > George, You are entitled to your opinion, but I continue to find it ironic that you, who don't even live in Goa, are so concerned about what the Goans who live in Goa individually and collectively choose to do or what they "deserve", warning them of dire consequences as if they don't know what is in their best interests. >
RE: [Goanet] Re: Goans headed for minority status in Goa
From: George Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Goa's premiere mailing list,estb. 1994!" To: Goanet Subject: [Goanet] Re: Goans headed for minority status in Goa Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:40:22 -0800 (PST) --- floriano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > No! I am not skeptical. Goans deserve the boot. Floriano People deserve the leaders they elect. Goans seem to have dug their own graves. Regards, George "Dug" & done or are still in the process of digging? AT
Re: [Goanet] Re: Goans headed for minority status in Goa
--- Lawrence Rodrigues <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > << "... physical features do sometimes (not always) > give away one's background. > > ... I know who is NOT a Goan - Israelis, Russians > ... illegal squatters not domiciled in Goa, political vote > banks brought in for political purposes. >> George Pinto > Mario asks: > For purposes of this paranoid discussion, do non-resident-Goans like George Pinto and myself, not domiciled in Goa, and not part of any "political vote banks" count towards whether Goans become a minority in Goa or not? >
[Goanet] Re: Goans headed for minority status in Goa
--- floriano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > No! I am not skeptical. Goans deserve the boot. Floriano People deserve the leaders they elect. Goans seem to have dug their own graves. Regards, George
Re: [Goanet] Re: Goans headed for minority status in Goa
<< "... physical features do sometimes (not always) give away one's background. ... I know who is NOT a Goan - Israelis, Russians ... illegal squatters not domiciled in Goa, political vote banks brought in for political purposes. >> George Pinto See http://userpages.umbc.edu/~achatt1/poem/gitan.html Where The Mind is Without Fear Rabindranath Tagore Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high Where knowledge is free Where the world has not been broken up into fragments By narrow domestic walls Where words come out from the depth of truth Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way Into the dreary desert sand of dead habit Where the mind is led forward by thee Into ever-widening thought and action Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake from Rabindranath Tagore's Geetanjali Lawrence -- Need a *Gmail* e-mail ID? Do write to me. Will send you an invitation to open a *Gmail* e-mail account. :-)
[Goanet] RE: Goans headed for minority status in Goa
Some quick reactions: 1. How is "Goan" defined"? 2. Someone recently referred to the Economic Survey 2004-05 to place the estimate of non-Goans as high as 50% of the total population! 3. Would it be more meaningful to compare Goa to "cities" like Mumbai, Delhi and Banglore (which experience a lot of inward migration) instead of "states" like Kerala, West Bengal and Tamil Nadu? Just a few thoughts. Cheers!
[Goanet] Re: Goans headed for minority status in Goa
George, Is there a solution for the below mentioned problem? If so, what is the solution for this problem? Or are we just repeating on goanet the well know problem, just like the Goan politicians. Recently, the Governor, Chief Minister and politicians of Goa mentioned about the main land problem of Goa i.e. 'lack of residential land in Goa to the increase number of population. The increase of population is due to migration of Non-Goans and non-Indians to Goa. On the costal belt of Goa, there is almost no land available for housing. The local people all along the cost of Goa are disappearing. Cip Cip << it appears looking around that one out three people in Goa are non-Goans. If this demographic trend continues, Goa might be the first state in a few years where Goans are a minority in their own land. >>
[Goanet] Re: Goans headed for minority status in Goa
Lawrence, I am not sure if you are serious or not but physical features do
sometimes (not always)
give away one's background.
As regards who is a Goan and who is not, the identity issue has been discussed
often and at
length. I know who is NOT a Goan - Israelis, Russians ("temporarily" in Goa for
several years),
illegal squatters not domiciled in Goa, political vote banks brought in for
political purposes.
I do not know enough about Rane's specific background, so no comment. You did
not ask but as Chief
Minister he has failed the Goan people - like his predecessors.
Regards,
George
--- Lawrence Rodrigues <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> << While I could not find current statistics on the ratio of Goans to
> non-Goans in Goa, it
appears looking around that one out three people in Goa are non-Goans. >>
George Pinto
>
>
> By George! Never knew one could tell I was goan by my *look*.
>
> But, having been born, bred, & resident in Maharashtra, am I not
> maharashtrian?
>
> Earlier query yet unanswered:
>
> BTW, Who is a goan? What is the definition? I believe Pratapsingh Rane's
> family hailed from
Gujarat. Is he goan?
