Re: [Goanet] Re: India gobbling the world - Malthus be gone!
--- George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I must disagree with Mario's observation of my ability. I have no claim to any fame (intellectual) except I once was falsely accused of being good-looking at the Anjuna night flea market. Later I found out the person was visually-challenged and the darkness may have had something to do with it. Also some adulterated feni. Mario apologises: George, based on your personal testimony, please accept my sincere apologies for mistaking you for an intellectual :-)) I should have figured that out on my own from your commentary, and vow to be more astute in future :-)) Regarding your homely looks, I will leave that up to the homosexuals from Portugal and Angola whose activities you recently outlined for us, or any others that may be lurking on Goanet :-)) George writes: As to left-wing/right-wing that is for birds and airplanes. Mario replies: I was really referring to the political wings, but it is quite customary these days for political left-wingers to try and cover-up that fact. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: India gobbling the world - Malthus be gone!
--- Elisabeth Carvalho wrote: I am sure as, Dr Khushwant Singh and Chidambaram, revel in the headway that India is making, their foremost wish is Malthus be gone. Unfortunately, the spectre of Maltus will follow both India and China well into the next century. --- George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For those further interested in Malthus (Elisabeth's reference above), see link and excerpt below http://cepa.newschool.edu/het/profiles/malthus.htm Mario observes: It isn't often that I have the opportunity to respond to two worthy left-wing intelletuals at the same time on Goanet, both of whom seem to find the ideas of Malthus to be as compelling as I find them to be pessimistic and misguided. My advice to Khuswant Singh and Dr. Chidambaram is to press on with their plans without worrying too much about Malthus. After all, he has been wrong for 300 years, so what are the probabilities that he will be vindicated in future? As one example from George's post above, Malthus's hypothesis implied that actual population always has a tendency to push above the food supply. Based on this India and China should have been facing mass starvation by now. However, because people don't sit still in the face of problems but develop solutions, both countries are self-sufficient in their food supplies, and are even exporting food. Here is an URL from a major university that rebutts the pessimistic theories of Malthus: http://william-king.www.drexel.edu/top/prin/txt/gro/gro6.html Some excerpts: It appears, in retrospect, that Malthus was wrong. Over the past 200 years, the population has grown in most countries and worldwide, but (again in most countries) people by and large have not gotten worse off, but better off, in material terms. Food is more plentiful, and many other kinds of goods and services are available that were not available 200 years ago. The reason is that technical progress in the production of food and in other fields has not been rare and accidental, but rather more or less continuous and cumulative. And this improvement in technology has outrun population growth, leaving more and more people better off. Looked at in detail, technical progress over this period has not been so continuous or regular. Before Malthus, about 1700, Britain had experienced an agricultural revolution, a major surge of technical progress in agriculture. In the nineteenth century, however, agricultural productivity seems to have remained relatively stagnant, while manufacturing and transportation surged ahead. But cheap manufactures made it possible to outfit more farmers more cheaply, and the improvements of transportation made is possible to bring food from further away, as new agricultural land was settled. Once again, in the twentieth century, agricultural productivity surged into the lead with large, continuing increases in agricultural productivity, together with some growth in manufacturing productivity. From the Malthusian viewpoint, this looks like a series of lucky accidents, and a Malthusian might say that there is no scientific reason to believe that the luck can continue -- that such a belief is no more than an act of faith. But from the anti-Malthusian viewpoint, things look quite different. An anti-Malthusian might ask how long a trend has to continue before it stops being a lucky accident and starts to be a general rule. If three hundred years is not long enough, how long? And how many times must the Malthusians be wrong before they realize that their ideas are flawed? (end of excerpt) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
[Goanet] Re: India gobbling the world - Malthus be gone!
--- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It isn't often that I have the opportunity to respond to two worthy left-wing intelletuals at the same time on Goanet, I must disagree with Mario's observation of my ability. I have no claim to any fame (intellectual) except I once was falsely accused of being good-looking at the Anjuna night flea market. Later I found out the person was visually-challenged and the darkness may have had something to do with it. Also some adulterated feni. As to left-wing/right-wing that is for birds and airplanes. Regards, George _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: India gobbling the world - Malthus be gone!
Hi George On TV we had programmes on child slavery. I watched one on the Democratic Republic of the Congo which was simply horrific about very young children slaving away in the open, manually extracting copper. Last might, we had one on India. It was reckoned that 11 million very young children produce goods for the Western consumer market . The scenes recorded clandestinely were truly terrible. They earned half a pound sterling doing 15 hours of work a day. Sad that sections of Indian capitalism are making progress in leaps and bounds by exploiting so many children who have never had a day's schooling. Tonight there ought to be a programme on child labour in China. Yet another one, on the relentless rush to world economic status. Need I say more? Cornel - Original Message - From: George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@goanet.org Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 6:38 AM Subject: [Goanet] Re: India gobbling the world - Malthus be gone! --- Elisabeth Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am sure as, Dr Khushwant Singh and Chidambaram, revel in the headway that India is making, their foremost wish is Malthus be gone. Unfortunately, the spectre of Maltus will follow both India and China well into the next century. For those further interested in Malthus (Elisabeth's reference above), see link and excerpt below http://cepa.newschool.edu/het/profiles/malthus.htm In this famous work, Malthus posited his hypothesis that (unchecked) population growth always exceeds the growth of means of subsistence. Actual (checked) population growth is kept in line with food supply growth by positive checks (starvation, disease and the like, elevating the death rate) and preventive checks (i.e. postponement of marriage, etc. that keep down the birthrate), both of which are characterized by misery and vice. Malthus's hypothesis implied that actual population always has a tendency to push above the food supply. Because of this tendency, any attempt to ameliorate the condition of the lower classes by increasing their incomes or improving agricultural productivity would be fruitless, as the extra means of subsistence would be completely absorbed by an induced boost in population. As long as this tendency remains, Malthus argued, the perfectibility of society will always be out of reach. Regards, George _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
[Goanet] Re: India gobbling the world - Malthus be gone!
--- Elisabeth Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am sure as, Dr Khushwant Singh and Chidambaram, revel in the headway that India is making, their foremost wish is Malthus be gone. Unfortunately, the spectre of Maltus will follow both India and China well into the next century. For those further interested in Malthus (Elisabeth's reference above), see link and excerpt below http://cepa.newschool.edu/het/profiles/malthus.htm In this famous work, Malthus posited his hypothesis that (unchecked) population growth always exceeds the growth of means of subsistence. Actual (checked) population growth is kept in line with food supply growth by positive checks (starvation, disease and the like, elevating the death rate) and preventive checks (i.e. postponement of marriage, etc. that keep down the birthrate), both of which are characterized by misery and vice. Malthus's hypothesis implied that actual population always has a tendency to push above the food supply. Because of this tendency, any attempt to ameliorate the condition of the lower classes by increasing their incomes or improving agricultural productivity would be fruitless, as the extra means of subsistence would be completely absorbed by an induced boost in population. As long as this tendency remains, Malthus argued, the perfectibility of society will always be out of reach. Regards, George _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
