Re: [Goanet]Re: Caste adverts.
Hi Victor - thank you for your very interesting response. I'd like to mention that I did receive a response to my original question from Cecil Pinto, but somehow missed reading it. So I did get at least one response shortly after posing the question. Viviana Victor Rangel-Ribeiro wrote: Viviana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: By the way, a few months ago I asked if anyone on the list had married outside of his/her caste and received no response. Viviana (without caste!) I would have liked to have responded to your query but did not quite know how.
[Goanet]Re: Caste adverts.
"CASTE" in India and particularly in Goa is a curse to humanity. In North America, this word has to be exemplified. Religion is a way of life and private to each person and should be respected by all. No missionaries - no conversion. The religion and if you may say CASTE is "human" - human religion and human caste. Get married to one you love and compatible. Not because she is Salgaonkar's or Dempe's or Sequeira's daughter. mkapil
[Goanet]Re: Caste adverts.
Viviana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: By the way, a few months ago I asked if anyone on the list had married outside of his/her caste and received no response. Viviana (without caste!) I would have liked to have responded to your query but did not quite know how. Since I have never believed in caste, I had to believe that anybody I married was essentially casteless; the question of whethere I had married outside my caste therefore simply did not arise. My parents did not believe in caste, either, and I learnt from their example; I do not believe a person's caste ever being discussed by the family. Once, indeed, when I was in college, I remember my favourite aunt came over to our house to complain to my mother that I was going out with a fellow student who "was not of our caste"; my mother invited my aunt to leave right away. She was so incensed that when my mother died a few years later, she did not come to the house; obviously, caste was a matter of great and overriding importance in her personal scheme of things. Nevertheless, in time she and I managed to maintain good relations. Years later, I fell in love and married. In the 51 years that have elapsed, my wife and I have never discussed anybody's caste at our table (or anywhere else, for that matter). Yet, when we visit friends and neighbours and relatives in Goa, and somebody's name comes up, somebody else will immediately say, "Oh, he is ", but more often than not it is said not as a putdown, but as a matter of fact. My wife and I did come across an instance of caste prejudice soon after we were married in Bombay. A group of young friends were singing mandos in our flat in Byculla when another of our friends came in, took me aside, and objected to the fact that non-Brahmins were singing mandos that should only be sung by Brahmins! I promptly asked him to leave. A question that still baffles me: How on earth did he figure out that the singers were non-Brahmins, when he did not know them at all, and I, who knew them well, had not bothered to find out? And why did his view of caste privilege extend to the singing of songs, that should belong to everybody? Fortunately, that friendship, too, survived that episode. Perhaps the lesson here is that prejudice is everywhere, and one way to combat it is in the way we lead our own lives. My father taught me, when I was still a young man, to believe in myself: "Believe that no man is your superior" was more or less how he put it. I turned it around to also mean, "No man is my inferior, either." That attitude makes a world of difference in how we deal with the human beings around us. Best regards, Victor Rangel-Ribeiro, Porvorim and New Jersey
RE: [Goanet]Re: Caste adverts
Well said Fred, once again! I would have written and expressed likewise; and have said so, with another headline. Cheers. Nasci Caldeira Mlbourne. From: "Frederick Noronha (FN)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Goanet]Re: Caste adverts Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 00:53:52 +0530 Dear GL: Are you deliberately/unintentionally misquoting me, or have I expressed myself so poorly, that I've confused my stand over the many posts made on this subject? My problem here is not with "disparity" but with a near-racist system, that keeps you trapped in a water-tight container for life and across generations, depending on accidents of birth. It determines where the glass ceiling blocks you still in contemporary Goa. It sometimes determines whom you marry, who votes (or doesn't) vote for your, creates powerful and distorting chains-of-influence that ruins any possibility of economic efficiency, and causes a whole set of market imperfections which should be unacceptable even in a capitalist conception of the world. No wonder the Bahujans in the MGP were out to usher in the capitalist revolution in the 'sixties, ably supported by national and international forces. It also makes sense, in hindsight, to see some politicians attempt to dismantal Goa's semi-feudalism, even if some influential forces might have a different conception of things. Above all, it leaves large sections of people carrying scars for life, based on perceived (and, as George points out, often invalid and unscientific) feelings of superiority and inferiority. FN
RE: [Goanet]Re: Caste adverts
Fred, No one intends to interfere with your profession and nobody can stop your freedom of writing. CAN YOU PLEASE STOP POSTING GOAN ROMAN CATHOLICS SO-CALLED CASTE BASED MATRIMONIAL ADS? THIS NUISANCE HAS TO BE STOPPED. Regards, Cip UK -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Frederick Noronha (FN) Sent: 09 July 2005 20:24 To: goanet@goanet.org Subject: [Goanet]Re: Caste adverts > GL wrote: Fred's and other's caste-beef appears to be not for caste > but "disparity" in society. This issue of disparity is and will > always be there Dear GL: Are you deliberately/unintentionally misquoting me, or have I expressed myself so poorly, that I've confused my stand over the many posts made on this subject? My problem here is not with "disparity" but with a near-racist system, that keeps you trapped in a water-tight container for life and across generations, depending on accidents of birth. It determines where the glass ceiling blocks you still in contemporary Goa. It sometimes determines whom you marry, who votes (or doesn't) vote for your, creates powerful and distorting chains-of-influence that ruins any possibility of economic efficiency, and causes a whole set of market imperfections which should be unacceptable even in a capitalist conception of the world. No wonder the Bahujans in the MGP were out to usher in the capitalist revolution in the 'sixties, ably supported by national and international forces. It also makes sense, in hindsight, to see some politicians attempt to dismantal Goa's semi-feudalism, even if some influential forces might have a different conception of things. Above all, it leaves large sections of people carrying scars for life, based on perceived (and, as George points out, often invalid and unscientific) feelings of superiority and inferiority. > That is what journalists should work and write about ... role models > and sucess stories rather than harping on the same old...same old ... > "biases". My profession doesn't proscribe from debating issues which I choose to; on the contrary. Infact, I am suffering from an acute case of doctoritis unsolicitis adviciticus -- getting unsolicited advice from doctors telling us journalists how we should be conducting our work and profession. FN
[Goanet]Re: Caste adverts
> GL wrote: Fred's and other's caste-beef appears to be not for caste > but "disparity" in society. This issue of disparity is and will > always be there Dear GL: Are you deliberately/unintentionally misquoting me, or have I expressed myself so poorly, that I've confused my stand over the many posts made on this subject? My problem here is not with "disparity" but with a near-racist system, that keeps you trapped in a water-tight container for life and across generations, depending on accidents of birth. It determines where the glass ceiling blocks you still in contemporary Goa. It sometimes determines whom you marry, who votes (or doesn't) vote for your, creates powerful and distorting chains-of-influence that ruins any possibility of economic efficiency, and causes a whole set of market imperfections which should be unacceptable even in a capitalist conception of the world. No wonder the Bahujans in the MGP were out to usher in the capitalist revolution in the 'sixties, ably supported by national and international forces. It also makes sense, in hindsight, to see some politicians attempt to dismantal Goa's semi-feudalism, even if some influential forces might have a different conception of things. Above all, it leaves large sections of people carrying scars for life, based on perceived (and, as George points out, often invalid and unscientific) feelings of superiority and inferiority. > That is what journalists should work and write about ... role models > and sucess stories rather than harping on the same old...same old ... > "biases". My profession doesn't proscribe from debating issues which I choose to; on the contrary. Infact, I am suffering from an acute case of doctoritis unsolicitis adviciticus -- getting unsolicited advice from doctors telling us journalists how we should be conducting our work and profession. FN
Re: [Goanet]Re: Caste adverts - Viviana says Fire her! 2
I am only just catching up with posts, and from memory, am responding to a point/question by Viviana earlier. There is a very great difference between the concepts of caste and class. They are definitely not synonomous. Both Jose and I had spelt out the difference in earlier posts on this theme and rather than reply to this issue yet again, I hope Viviana will look through the archives for an answer to her question. Cornel - Original Message - From: "jose colaco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 7:23 PM Subject: [Goanet]Re: Caste adverts - Viviana says Fire her! 2 jose colaco wrote: I am glad that No One bothered to respond to such a casteist question from Viviana. What do you mean by "anyone married outside of his/her caste" ? Perhaps NO ONE cares about this racist humbug called caste. From: Viviana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> < Right. That's why there's never any mention of it on Goanet. I guess I've been dreaming that I've been reading many many posts about caste. Wakey! Wakey!> JC responds, Forget Wakey Wakey Dona Viviana . more appropriate to Read-ey Read-ey. The mention of "caste" in posts is NOT (I repeat NOT) synonymous with support for the practice of "Caste" . Please take your time and read the posts ... except for that post from TRS - I'd be hard pressed (don't know about you) to find support for the practice of Caste. BTW: Anyone who answered your question (like anyone who answered TRS' question) would be overtly supporting the CASTE SYSTEM. Now time for sleepy sleepy for me. good wishes jc below OutCaste BTW2 : Fire Viviana for true. _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
[Goanet]Re: Caste adverts - Viviana says Fire her! - final
From: Viviana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> all who mentioned caste were doing so to support the practice. Silly me!> Good for you Silly you fer true jc _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
Re: [Goanet]Re: Caste adverts - Viviana says Fire her! 2
jose colaco wrote: JC responds, Forget Wakey Wakey Dona Viviana . more appropriate to Read-ey Read-ey. The mention of "caste" in posts is NOT (I repeat NOT) synonymous with support for the practice of "Caste" . Gee, Dr. Jose, thanks for clarifying that for me. And here I thought that all who mentioned caste were doing so to support the practice. Silly me! Please take your time and read the posts ... except for that post from TRS - I'd be hard pressed (don't know about you) to find support for the practice of Caste. BTW: Anyone who answered your question (like anyone who answered TRS' question) would be overtly supporting the CASTE SYSTEM. Uh, okay, sure. Dona Viviana Now time for sleepy sleepy for me. good wishes jc below OutCaste BTW2 : Fire Viviana for true.
[Goanet]Re: Caste adverts - Viviana says Fire her! 2
jose colaco wrote: I am glad that No One bothered to respond to such a casteist question from Viviana. What do you mean by "anyone married outside of his/her caste" ? Perhaps NO ONE cares about this racist humbug called caste. From: Viviana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> < Right. That's why there's never any mention of it on Goanet. I guess I've been dreaming that I've been reading many many posts about caste. Wakey! Wakey!> JC responds, Forget Wakey Wakey Dona Viviana . more appropriate to Read-ey Read-ey. The mention of "caste" in posts is NOT (I repeat NOT) synonymous with support for the practice of "Caste" . Please take your time and read the posts ... except for that post from TRS - I'd be hard pressed (don't know about you) to find support for the practice of Caste. BTW: Anyone who answered your question (like anyone who answered TRS' question) would be overtly supporting the CASTE SYSTEM. Now time for sleepy sleepy for me. good wishes jc below OutCaste BTW2 : Fire Viviana for true. _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
Re: [Goanet]Re: Caste adverts - Viviana says Fire her!
jose colaco wrote: I am glad that No One bothered to respond to such a casteist question from Viviana. What do you mean by "anyone married outside of his/her caste" ? Perhaps NO ONE cares about this racist humbug called caste. Right. That's why there's never any mention of it on Goanet. I guess I've been dreaming that I've been reading many many posts about caste. Wakey! Wakey! Viviana
[Goanet]Re: Caste adverts - Viviana says Fire her!
From: Viviana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Yes! I should be sacked immediately, I agree! :-))) By the way, a few months ago I asked if anyone on the list had married outside of his/her caste and received no response. Viviana (without caste!) === I am glad that No One bothered to respond to such a casteist question from Viviana. What do you mean by "anyone married outside of his/her caste" ? Perhaps NO ONE cares about this racist humbug called caste. BTW: my purpose of pointing out "RC Brahmin" in cybermatrimonials was NOT directed at the young lady who (most likely) included that bit quite inadvertantly or automatically. I see here an older posting from Fred Noronha where he indicates that care is taken to delete "caste" from the postings. Why on earth one sees this semi-defence of the "caste" in the advert beats me. Errors happen. It is quite OK to admit a slip up and move on jc _ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
