[Goanet]Re: Points made by Cecil Pinto

2005-05-26 Thread George Pinto
Hi Cornel

I have read that there were caste-based Goans clubs in East Africa (I am not 
sure of the current
situation). Did this practice end?  Is it your feeling that Goans who returned 
to Goa or migrated
to Canada, Australia, UK, etc. left their prejudices behind?  I don't mean to 
single out East
African Goans, but I am asking since that is the thread.

Regards,
George


--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Cecil,
 I am puzzled by the specific point you make that:  the large numbers of 
 East African Goans who brought their prejudices back with them, when in Goa 
 itself these same caste prejudices were on their way out.  You may indeed 
 know more about this than I do, and I therefore hope you will find the time 
 to elaborate on your contention please.



[Goanet]Re: Points made by Cecil Pinto

2005-05-26 Thread cornel

Hi Cecil,
I am puzzled by the specific point you make that:  the large numbers of 
East African Goans who brought their prejudices back with them, when in Goa 
itself these same caste prejudices were on their way out.  You may indeed 
know more about this than I do, and I therefore hope you will find the time 
to elaborate on your contention please.


However, for now, notwithstanding my lack of ready statistical evidence, on 
the pattern of the outflow of the Goans from East Africa, but as an informed 
former East African Goan, I am sceptical about what you say for the 
following reasons:
Those East African Goans who returned to Goa, permanently, following the 
general outflow from E. Africa would have been a small minority of older 
Goans. Sequentially, the vast majority went to the UK first, then to Canada 
and smaller numbers went to the USA and Australia/NZ. Of these, there was a 
further movement (sometimes, to and fro) between these countries for 
settlement purposes. The younger Goans who returned to Goa, often took up 
jobs in the then booming Gulf economies and sometimes moved on to the West 
or even took up temporary work contracts back in East Africa.


Numbers, of course, have stayed on in East Africa and never left as such, 
even the relatively few from Uganda, (for complex reasons), following Idi 
Amin's 1972 expulsion order.  Consequently, I can't see how there could 
possibly have been anything like a critical mass, able to reintroduce caste 
practice in Goa itself from East Africa. Further, I really have to question 
your point that this happened when in Goa itself these same caste 
prejudices were on their way out.  Has caste ever been on its way out from 
Goa except as a form of export?


I'd also like to take this opportunity to note two other points linked to 
recent related correspondence  on Goanet:
a) I believe that those who have expressed their enthusiasm for return to 
Goa from the more distant Goan Diaspora, invariably hang on to their foreign 
passports and do not, (unless 'forced' to), settle for Indian nationality 
which would surely be the firmest test of their intentions.
b) re Mario's point about the occupations of the Goans in East Africa, by 
and large, they were in lower middle-class occupations, predominantly in the 
civil service but also in banking, insurance and other similar openings. 
They generally provided reliable clerical services for generations. However, 
there were others in the professions like doctors, engineers, architects, 
teachers, including school principals, and higher administrative workers, 
managers and lawyers too. There were still others in the catering and 
technical services and in enterprises like tailoring, pharmacy, the 
motor/transport trade, hotel and tourist services and in varied businesses.

Regards,
Cornel DaCosta, London, UK.


Also Fred lives in Saligao, which despite a veneer of advancement still
has a lot of caste discrimination among the Catholics. This is mostly
because of the large number of East African Goans who brought their
prejudices back with them, when in Goa itself these same caste prejudices
were on their way out.