RE: [Goanet] Reminder on morality and social conscience
> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:29:34 -0700 (PDT) > From: Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > The difference in my opinion is one of checks and > balances. For example, Christians have a rock-solid > "Golden Rule" > --- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" wrote: > > The Golden Rule or the ethic of reciprocity is > found in the scriptures of nearly every religion. > It is often regarded as the most concise and general > principle of ethics. It is a condensation in one > principle of all longer lists of ordinances such as > the Decalogue. > http://origin.org/ucs/ws/theme015.cfm > Mario observes: > Kevin, you are absolutely right. What you missed, however, in my comment above, was that I was using Christians as AN EXAMPLE. Where did I suggest that other religions did not have perfectly adequate Golden Rules? > Kevin writes: > > Actually, only six of the ten commandments dea1 with > an individual's moral conduct, which comes as a > surprise to most Christians. Essentially, the > first four commandments say: > Mario responds: > By golly, I was wondering when one of the intrepid atheists and/or agnostics would pick up on this :-)) > The Holy Joe's did not either :-)) > Kevin, my man, there is hope for you after all. This shows your familiarity with the Ten Commandments, which I know you used as the basis in formulating your very own, "unorganized atheist" version of the Seven, ...er, Six Suggestions :-)) > _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Reminder on morality and social conscience
As usual, Gilbert misrepresents my position and my answer to his question. He has no substantive or meaningful argument, and no rational answer to his own poorly framed question - "What's the Purpose to life?; and What happens after death". Moreover, his post has no connection with what I stated earlier under this thread. As far as morality or social conscience are concerned, as I have stated earlier, neither depend on the presence or absence of religious belief. Briefly, this is so because of the following: 1. Moral human behavior predates theistic and atheistic religious belief by several thousand years. 2. Rudiments of morality are present in several species of higher mammals. 3. Religious texts have prescribed many types of immoral activities. 4. Religious authorities and bodies have committed many types of immoral activities. 5. Religious justification continues to be used for the commission of various crimes and atrocities in the world to this day. 6. Theistic and atheistic belief has provided a cloak of immunity for thousands of criminals. 7. Theistic and atheistic ideologues are responsible for most of the genocides committed in recorded history. No religion, ideology or faith of any kind provides a rock-solid moral compass. Religious texts are full of immoral advice, which if taken literally, could wreak havoc in the modern world governed by humaritarian ethics and rational morality. The proposal that religions requiring compliance with some multiply revised list of ten commandments, provide a better or more rock-solid moral compass than beliefs following a prescription of seven moral suggestions, is entirely unconvincing. No genuine knowledge-based rational argument has been provided for any such contention. Cheers, Santosh --- Gilbert Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Santosh's post makes interesting reading and in some > ways is thought provoking. His response as an > atheist / agnostic to my post about: What's the > Purpose to life?; and What happens after death", was > interesting. It was short and what one would expect > from an atheist / agnostic - Nothing, Nyet, De nada, > and Kaput. > _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Reminder on morality and social conscience
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:29:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The difference in my opinion is one of checks and balances. For example, Christians have a rock-solid "Golden Rule" --- The Golden Rule or the ethic of reciprocity is found in the scriptures of nearly every religion. It is often regarded as the most concise and general principle of ethics. It is a condensation in one principle of all longer lists of ordinances such as the Decalogue. http://origin.org/ucs/ws/theme015.cfm --- and also a rock solid list of Ten Commandments. Actually, only six of the ten commandments dea1 with an individual's moral conduct, which comes as a surprise to most Christians. Essentially, the first four commandments say: 1.Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 2.Thou shalt not make thee any graven images or bow down to them, and if you do I'll get you and your kids and their descendants. 3.Thou shalt not take the name of the lord in vain. 4.Keep the Sabbath holy. http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/10comm.php Kevin Saldanha Mississauga, ON. mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Reminder on morality and social conscience
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > This is to remind ourselves that the notion that a > moral compass or social conscience is dependent on > adherence to some form of ideology, religion or > atheistic belief system, has been thoroughly > discredited in this and other Goan forums. > > It has also been shown that no religion, ideology or > atheistic belief system has ever had a rock-solid > moral compass. > Mario responds: > I agree with Santosh's redundant reminder that an individual's moral compass is theoretically not dependent on any ideology or religious or non-religious belief, and that the results can be the same on a day-to-day basis. > However, I must have missed "been shown" that there is no "rock solid" religious moral compass. By definition an individual unorganized atheist, as opposed to defined and highly organized atheist groups like the Buddhists and Jains and others that function very much like religions, cannot have anything that can be called a rock solid moral compass because it is whatever the unorganized individual says it is. > The difference in my opinion is one of checks and balances. For example, Christians have a rock-solid "Golden Rule" and also a rock solid list of Ten Commandments. While individual Christians may follow their own course, doing so comes with religious consequences for a practicing Christian. Similarly, organized atheists groups like Buddhists and Jains have rock solid standards for their members. > Individual unorganized atheists MAY have what could be summarized as the "Seven Suggestions" that overlap similar strictures in the Ten Commandments. However, these carry no consequences by any organized and influential group other than those imposed by civil or criminal law. > _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Reminder on morality and social conscience
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- This is to remind ourselves that the notion that a moral compass or social conscience is dependent on adherence to some form of ideology, religion or atheistic belief system, has been thoroughly discredited in this and other Goan forums. It has also been shown that no religion, ideology or atheistic belief system has ever had a rock-solid moral compass. Cheers, Santosh --- Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I will have far more respect for your side of the > spectrum when you can show me long-standing and > world-wide atheist-supported schools, hospitals, > nursing homes, homes for the aged, orphanages and > other charitable organizations, as well as a rock > solid moral compass going back thousands of years > that no one with even half a brain can misunderstand. > _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
