Re: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
Mr.Cornel, On the word breed as explained very well by you is totally agreeable by me, i have no problems, but just imagine the person who started the topic by mentioning GOANS AS SPECIAL BREED was not questioned, but when i expressed my opinion stating yes we goans are special breed, the reaction on my yes was not liked by some, the entire subject matter was forgotten but now the hicup was BREED,and i apprecaite your concern on the word breed, some went to bring in CM Mr. Parrikar to some context, poodles etc. there was no need at all for all this. I did not start mentioning GOANS AS SPECIAL BREED, anyways.Right from the start I have not made any distinction nor discriminated communities. Less the word Breed , yes We goans are speciall. Vivek cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gabe, I think that the word breed is really inappropriate- especially in terms of modern usage of the term. It would make some people bristle with rage or simply be dismissive! Putting it kindly, I think I feel somewhat insulted and demeaned if I am categorised as belonging to a breed of any kind- and especially Goan as there is much that is Christian Goan which is pretty awful eg their powerful deeply underlying casteist/segregationist instincts which are totally indefensible intellectually or morally. I would have no problem if you said the Goans in East Africa proved to be talented, highly successful in many areas (excepting perhaps business) and were generally well thought of for their sagacity. Bear in mind that their adoption of the English language, by largely discarding their Konkani mothertongue gave them an initial scholastic edge over other Indian communities too. But to praise the Goan schools which avoided Konkani like the plague, does make those schools, which you seem to praise, seriously wanting in my view. Re Serafino Antao, who was in school with me in Mombasa, and definitely a late and unexpected discovery in athletics, where I also trained/competed with him, he emerged as being supremely talented in sprinting. To say that he was a special breed is to be derogatory of his very special sprinting talent. Above all, it is important to note that humans cannot be categorised in terms of breeds or races in contemporary terms. As to the other community groups you mentioned, they were attracted to varied skills and 'callings' just as the Goans were, say to the priesthood and the nunery and especially toWestern music and to sport. If the Goans had many carpeners as you say, the Sikhs had even more and they were excellent construction workers too. To say however, that community groups considered themselves as special, was, to me, petty and narrow minded, but perhaps understandable in the the early years of the Colony -until such minds were broadened by education and experience. All in good spirits, Cornel - Original Message - From: Gabe Menezes To: Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 9:15 AM Subject: [Goanet]Goans a special breed? Are Goans a special breed? Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran the Administration services in Government, Railways and Harbours, P.W.D. and so forth. Goans were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class tailors in Nairobi were Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered themselves to be special) Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed from Benaulim. We had a Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic Parochial and St. Teresa's schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and Seraphino Antao is a testament to our being a special breed, He was a gold medallist in the Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey team boasted 8 or 9 Goans and only 4 Sikhs. I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves special, their only interest in life was to make money - this is probably why they had a rough time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the other hand were good at working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran assorted businesses including many butcher shops. So quite simply everyone thought they were a special breed in Kenya, this was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu tribe considered themselves to be the inheritors of the land. Cheers, Gibe Menezes. ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at
Re: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
From: vivek araujo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Goanet]Goans a special breed? Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:23:01 + (GMT) Arre, Vivek-bab, Whuin-cho re baba tuum. Vincha'tam kitteak amchea Lot'liant zaite uxau Arujo assat. Mogan, Alfred de Tavares _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
Re: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
From: Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were special. === Folks, Gabe is so right regarding the East African context in the mid 20th century but do the concepts have universal validity today? I was brought up in Mombasa, Kenya and my own experience was not much different from Gabe's. I went to a Goan School, relaxed at the Goan Institute and went to the Catholic Church which had a predominantly Goan congregation. Life revolved around the three. The reason we excelled in sports was because we had excellent facilities. At the Goan School, English was the medium of instruction and we specialised in English history and geography. The Principal introduced fines if any pupil was caught talking Konkani whilst on school premises. In most other respects, the Principal was excellent and incidentally went to Goa after retirement - Parrikar, Goa's CM, remembers him fondly as his Maths teacher! I submit that it was largely religious teaching that was responsible for brainwashing us to believe we were a special breed. We were also conditioned to accept white supremacy whist believing that we were a breed apart from the blacks and the other Asians. When I then went to St Xavier's College, Mumbai, it came as quite a shock to the system to realize that Indians who were heathens, did not drink alcohol or eat meat or waltz and spoke a funny language were able to speak English more fluently than me and excelled academically, socially, intellectually and even spiritually! I lived at the College hostel and benefitted enormously by friendship with them. So perhaps we ought to sympathise with the ilk of Vivek who are still cloistered in the East Africa context. Pity is all that he deserves! The key question is how do we react in the Western environment. If we believe in Goan superiority to the other Asians it means we accept our inferiority to the whites. How do we react to the discrimination and racial attacks? BTW. News has just come in that Denis Lobo, (aged 53, ex-Nairobi), has been the victim of repeated racial attacks in the UK, Hillingdon Times of 27 Feb 2004 has a 517 words article about it. I have the full text and have just spoken to him. However the website http://www.hillingdontimes.co.uk/ is currently down and I am unable to give you the url. Cheers Eddie Fernandes ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
Re: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
Gabe, I think that the word breed is really inappropriate- especially in terms of modern usage of the term. It would make some people bristle with rage or simply be dismissive! Putting it kindly, I think I feel somewhat insulted and demeaned if I am categorised as belonging to a breed of any kind- and especially Goan as there is much that is Christian Goan which is pretty awful eg their powerful deeply underlying casteist/segregationist instincts which are totally indefensible intellectually or morally. I would have no problem if you said the Goans in East Africa proved to be talented, highly successful in many areas (excepting perhaps business) and were generally well thought of for their sagacity. Bear in mind that their adoption of the English language, by largely discarding their Konkani mothertongue gave them an initial scholastic edge over other Indian communities too. But to praise the Goan schools which avoided Konkani like the plague, does make those schools, which you seem to praise, seriously wanting in my view. Re Serafino Antao, who was in school with me in Mombasa, and definitely a late and unexpected discovery in athletics, where I also trained/competed with him, he emerged as being supremely talented in sprinting. To say that he was a special breed is to be derogatory of his very special sprinting talent. Above all, it is important to note that humans cannot be categorised in terms of breeds or races in contemporary terms. As to the other community groups you mentioned, they were attracted to varied skills and 'callings' just as the Goans were, say to the priesthood and the nunery and especially toWestern music and to sport. If the Goans had many carpeners as you say, the Sikhs had even more and they were excellent construction workers too. To say however, that community groups considered themselves as special, was, to me, petty and narrow minded, but perhaps understandable in the the early years of the Colony -until such minds were broadened by education and experience. All in good spirits, Cornel - Original Message - From: Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 9:15 AM Subject: [Goanet]Goans a special breed? Are Goans a special breed? Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran the Administration services in Government, Railways and Harbours, P.W.D. and so forth. Goans were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class tailors in Nairobi were Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered themselves to be special) Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed from Benaulim. We had a Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic Parochial and St. Teresa's schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and Seraphino Antao is a testament to our being a special breed, He was a gold medallist in the Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey team boasted 8 or 9 Goans and only 4 Sikhs. I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves special, their only interest in life was to make money - this is probably why they had a rough time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the other hand were good at working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran assorted businesses including many butcher shops. So quite simply everyone thought they were a special breed in Kenya, this was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu tribe considered themselves to be the inheritors of the land. Cheers, Gibe Menezes. ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
Re: [Goanet]Goans a special breed?
Sorry you have not yet felt that Goenkars are special in their own way. You need not explain about each and every community which if you read comes back to my opinion, and that is what 'am stressing my point again, everyone and everycommunity is free to feel special , i am a goenkar and always believed and believe that we are special. On Gujratis having had a rough time in Uganda,(during the exodus everyone had a rough time including the Goans , who left their properties behind,) kindly wake up and see where the Gujrati's are today, let's talk of the present , past is history of what happened , why , how , which, etc. questions can be left aside and we move. You must read a lot Gabe and advise you to read the Times of India today's edition , let me assist you, kindly log on to www.timesofindia.com , about indians joining the list of richness with Bill gates. I can go on and on about Gujratis in Uganda, but you will never be convinced about their standing in Uganda, if time persist make a trip and see how they have changed the face of Uganda. Let's talk what's on the ground, do not write unrealistic issues like the Gujratis in Uganda had a rough time etcI --- Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are Goans a special breed? Having been born and brought up in Nairobi, Kenya I was made to feel we were special. We had our own segregated Clubs, Goans ran the Administration services in Government, Railways and Harbours, P.W.D. and so forth. Goans were the best tailors by a mile - all the top class tailors in Nairobi were Goans. Along with the Sikhs ( who also considered themselves to be special) Goans were also wonderful carpenters - most hailed from Benaulim. We had a Goan school and were predominant in the Catholic Parochial and St. Teresa's schools (Boys and Girls). We excelled in sports and Seraphino Antao is a testament to our being a special breed, He was a gold medallist in the Commonwealth games. At one time the Kenya hockey team boasted 8 or 9 Goans and only 4 Sikhs. I guess the Gujarat's also considered themselves special, their only interest in life was to make money - this is probably why they had a rough time in Uganda, warranted or not. The Sikhs on the other hand were good at working on machines, the Muslim Pakistanis ran assorted businesses including many butcher shops. So quite simply everyone thought they were a special breed in Kenya, this was so even amongst the local natives - the Kikuyu tribe considered themselves to be the inheritors of the land. Cheers, Gibe Menezes. ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
