[Goanet] Anglo or Eurasian: ask Genie and Facebook.

[eric pinto]

 

    From the Trucial States of the Gulf to Singapore, positions were filled in 
two categories: Anglo andEurasian. One was Anglo when born locally to Brit 
parents. Eurasians were of multi parentage, looselyapplied often to include 
families that had adopted the English language.    Idalina DeSouza, born 1865 
in Salvador was clearly Eurasian, going by portraits and the features of 
herchildren. She married in Sangolda and died in 1953.  Both her sons stole 
Anglo designated jobs, one headed Overseas Cable in the Trucial States and 
Sindh, the other with the London owned Bombay Gas Company. Do not report me, 
but I own two Midland made ornate cast iron posts that supported pretty gas 
lamps in London.  Idalina, now Pinto, had two daughters, Philomena and 
Flaviana. Philomena was office clerk of the BritishRailroad in Vasco. She 
married the boss, George Clarke an engineer native of Kent. They had six 
children,all of whom moved to Britain and Canada where they lived and died. 
Descended from them are another threegenerations who number over a hundred. 
They invariably call themselves Eurasians on Social sites.  Flaviana had her 
own family. A child, Violeta Aria Pinto Durso was born this week to her great 
grand daughter.Americo Euro Asian, the tale lingers.
    



  

[Goanet] Anglo-Indian Stories Kerry Edwards Part 1

[Frederick Noronha]

Nigel Foote from the Anglo-Indian Heritage-Centre interviews Mr Kerry
Edwards at his home in Canberra, Australia. This 3 part interview series
relates to a project created by Cecilia Abraham and is part of her research
for a Photo Documentary. The documentary, The Anglo-Indian Community of
Hyderabad and Secunderabad will cover history, present day and what the
future may hold.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY416NINoI0

Send your feedback to
ozmu...@gmail.com and goa...@goanet.org--
FN* फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا‎ +91-9822122436
AUDIO: https://archive.org/details/goa1556

TEXT: http://bit.ly/2SBx41G PIX: http://bit.ly/2Rs1xhl

[Goanet] Anglo-Indians The forgotten pillars of British India.

[Con Menezes]

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W6tMbK_HsM

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[Goanet] Anglo-Indians of India and Mestissos of Goa

[Antonio Menezes]

Both Anglo-Indians and Mestissos were children of European fathers mainly
British and
Portuguese respectively and Indian mothers.

Whereas Anglo-Indian children were born during the period 1700 to 1947 i.e.
roughly in
250 years ,  Mestissos were born from 1510 to 1961 i.e. 450 years..

A colourful insight into the lives of Anglo-Indians is provided by Rudy
Otter who wrote
''Colourful Though ts''vide F.N.Noronha  "" Anglo- Indian surnames"" (July
2,2014) and
 extensive quotes of ""a speech given by a senior Anglo-Indian army veteran
at a dinner
dance in Sydney"" vide Gabe Menezes  ""I am Russel Peters..."" (July
23,2014 ).

Really a beautiful description of Anglo-Indian life in India for 250 years
and I wish there
was a similar description of Mestisso life in Goa for 450 years.

Re: [Goanet] Anglo Indian - Surnames

[Eugene Correia]

Stories of Anglos are full in Kolkata, and it's not suprising. Kolkata was
the mainstay of the community, as their number was more than in any other
states. Even Goans took on the grab of Goans. There were (I don't know if
they still are) Goan kudds and many Goan bachelors took their families
there when they got married.
Take the case of Leander Paes. Very few people in Kolkata or elsewhere know
he's of Goan origin. The Anglos claim him as their own because of his
mother, Jennifer, who is Anglo. Very few know his father is Goan, since
Vece Paes has lived in Kolkata since his childhood.
Now that Leander is living in Mumbai, as a live-in partner of Rhea Pillai,
the ex-wife of actor Sanjay Dutt, I am sure he calls himself a Goan. In
fact, in an interview many years ago he himself said he was Anglo.
I knew a few whose fathers were Anglos but mothers Goan. One of them would
only talk to few in the village as they showed the felt they were highly
sophiticated. These boys were not very well educated, I know for sure that
one of them got married to a Goan girl who wasn't that sophisticated.
The elder one was attempting to marry another Goan girl in Mumbai and I am
not sure he ultimately did or not. One day I saw the girl with a man who I
knew. I asked the father who the girl was and he said she's his daughter.
The girl knew me partially and was quiet sky. The father didn't like the
girl, as the boy wasn't gainfully employed. When the Hotel Heritage in
Byculla was built, the boy got a singing job. I believe both have died.
I met once a couple of Anglos in Margao who were acting tough. They were
arguing with some of us at a restaurant. Despite telling them to stop their
nuisance, they resorted to telling us that they weren't afraid as they were
from Kolkata. They were grown-up comapred to us youngsters. I went and
reported them to the Margao police station. The cops caught them and
threatened them with lock-up. These Anglos shut up. Some of the Anglos
showed they were superior and acted with aloofness.
Unfortunately, they were called "bastard children of the Raj." Byculla and
Colaba had many of them. I believe their number has dwindled. There stories
have been well documented, and I have read a book on their lives in
Kolkata. I have seen 36 Chowinghee Lane which portrays the live of an aged
Anglo. I have seen in Chowinghee and Park Lane in Kolkata young Anglos hang
out. Their era has come to an end. One of my relations has married an Anglo
but the man has adopted his mother grandmother's surname. There's isn't a
trace of Anglo culture or traditions in them, though in their cooking one
finds little traces. They have become native Kannadigas, and the
grandparents and parents were working the tea estates in the Nilgiris.
i have met the office-bearers of the Anglo association in Toronto many
years ago. They are affable and happy-go-lucky peopl with little concern
what's happening in India. They live in their own workd, and maybe some
have their thoughts for India.
What would Leander's daughter call herself one would like to know.
Eugene

Re: [Goanet] Anglo Indian - Surnames

[Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا]

Thanks for that Malcolm! It is true that there are such names outside of
Goa and Mangalore (with Mangaloreans being of Goan origin themselves, as
Alan Machado reminds us). I knew the late Paul Gonsalves of EQUATIONS
(Equitable Tourism Options), who traced his roots to West Bengal, and his
dad was an Anglican bishop, if I recall right. Likewise, the prominent
human rights lawyer Colin Gonsalves is Mumbai-based though of Kerala origin.

 I might be wrong here, but would assume that anyone carrying such a name
would suggest a Luso-Indian link (either genetically, marriage or through
conversions), rather than an Anglo-Indian one.

This extract from the Wikipedia is interesting:
Anglo-Indian often only represents Indians mixed with British ancestry
during the British Raj. There are many mixed Indians from European
countries other than the British, that were involved in the British Raj,
for example, the definition rarely embraces the descendants of the Indians
from the old Portuguese colonies of both the Coromandel and Malabar Coasts,
who joined the East India Company as mercenaries and brought their families
with them. The definition has many extensions, for example, mestiços (mixed
Portuguese and Indian) of Goa, people of Indo-French descent, and
Indo-Dutch descent. Indians have encountered Europeans since their earliest
civilization. They have been a continuous element in the sub-continent.
Their presence is not be considered Anglo-Indian. Similarly, Indians who
mixed with Europeans after the British Raj are also not be considered
Anglo-Indian.

Today, there are estimated to be 80,000–125,000 Anglo-Indians living in
India, most of whom are based in the cities of Delhi, Kolkata, Chennai,
Bangalore, Mysore, Hyderabad, Kanpur, Mumbai, Madurai and Tiruchirapalli.
Anglo-Indians also live in the towns of Allepey (Alappuzha), Kochi
(Cochin), Kollam (Quilon), Kozhikode (Calicut), Cannanore (Kannur) in the
South Indian state of Kerala also at Goa, Pune, Secunderabad,
Visakhapatnam, Lucknow, Agra, and in some towns of Bihar, Uttarakhand,
Jharkhand and West Bengal. Also a significant number of this population
resides in Odisha's Khurda Road, which is a busy railway junction. However,
the Anglo Indian population has dwindled over the years with most people
migrating abroad or to other parts of the country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Indian

And see this interesting if debatable essay by Rudy Otter:

http://home.alphalink.com.au/~agilbert/colour.html

Reposting what I posted some days back:

“All the Indians wanted to be Anglo-Indian,” said Malcolm Booth, 83, the
honorary general secretary of the All-India Anglo-Indian Association.
Portraits of dark-eyed, pale-skinned men in suits hung on the walls of his
Delhi office, where, dressed in 1950s-style paisley-patterned suspenders,
he sipped tea.
A former railroad engineer, Mr. Booth defines Anglo-Indian more strictly
than the Constitution does. He regards Goans with Portuguese and French
ancestry as pretenders, even though the constitutional definition, once
used to ensure job quotas and other privileges for Anglo-Indians, accepts
any European ancestry on the father’s side.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/15/world/asia/15india.html?pagewanted=all

Btw, Malcolm, were you at Yercaud in 1979? Or Britto's? I knew a Malcolm
Noronha... FN


On 2 July 2014 17:56, Malcolm Noronha  wrote:
>
> Frederick,
> A lot of Anglo Indians have surnames similar to Goan surnames.
> I have a lot of Anglo Indian friends from Cochin, Madras and Calcutta
with surnames like Lobo, Fernandez, Barbosa, Rocha etc.
> Regards,
> Malcolm Noronha
--
FN P +91-832-2409490 M +91-9822122436 http://goa1556.in

[Goanet] Anglo-India

[eric pinto]

    London's Irish underclass was well represented in the ranks of
the army, Catholic Eurasians outnumbered the Anglican.
   Carnatic and Tamil converts, Methodists, staked a claim to jobs
reserved for Eurasians. One was Anglo-Indian if you belonged to the
small community of Brit settlers in India, only.  Governor Robert Grant,
of Grant Medical College fame, was born in India, as was Gen. Henderson
Brooks of the Indian Army.
  Bombay's Scottish Orphanage was established because Protestant
orphans were raised Catholic by the many homes run by nuns.
  The "Anglo" claim raises eyebrows in North America, where divisions
are sharp; you may not be anything but Irish-American or Polish-American
or French-Canadian or Hispanic, if that is what you are.   
    ps - google 'Skinners Horse.'
 


 From: Jose Colaco 
To: "bo...@goanet.org" ; "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 
1994!"  
Cc: "goa...@goanet.org"  
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 5:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Our future King has Indian blood...
  

Mogal Bosco,

I am not very sure HOW your 'wiki-quote' answers the 'AngloIndian' query asked 
in 1 (infra). The pre-1900 nomenclature notwithstanding, is every child born in 
India to English parents classified as Anglo Indian?

Surnames like Catarina, Julia and Jerónimo?

BTW: while I know that some Goans in British India with Portuguese surnames 
reportedly  Anglicized their surnames ie Ferns (Fernandes), Sawyer (Soares), 
are you sure that ALL the Lawrences from India or British India are, in fact, 
Lourencos from Goa?

Have a good day


jc



..
Re: 

1: how did Englebert become Anglo-Indian? Were any of his parents or their's 
Not British British?

2: and what, if I may ask is the origin of the surname Lawrence? Could it be 
Anglo-Indian?

Bosco D  wrote: RESPONDED

1 - Engelbert Humperdinck (born Arnold George Dorsey; 2 May 1936). Arnold
Dorsey was born in Madras, India, as one of ten children to British Army
NCO Mervyn Dorsey and his wife Olive. Dorsey's family moved to Leicester,
England, when he was ten. [1]

2 - The oft quoted on Goanet, Leo Lawrence, author of Nehru seizes Goa
comes to mind. He was no Anglo-Indian. For various reasons, Goans likely
anglicised their (sur)names:

Jose became Joseph
Catarina became Catherine
Jeronimo became Jerome
Julia became Juliet
Lourenco became Lawrence

[Goanet] Anglo-Indian Sunday Lunch

[Ana Maria de souza-Goswami]

To continue what Frederick posted about the above. I bought a Bengali recipe 
book somewhere in the early eighties called Bangla Rana  - The Art of 
Bengali Cooking by Minakshie Dasgupta. There was a chapter on Anglo Indian 
Recipes. There were certain dishes introduced into the Bengali cusisine by 
the Anglo Indian community of Calcutta, eg. Hilsa Fish Fry, Fish Moulee, 
Mutton Cutlet Curry, Poached Egg in Tomato Curry.


Ana Maria de souza-Goswami 

Re: [Goanet] anglo-indians-Goan Catholics

[Eugene Correia]

Corretions:
In the first line, ..."Ph.D with her these on the Anglo-Indian community in 
Bengal in my collectionthese on the Anglo-Indian community in Bengal"

The word "these" should be thesis. 

Eugene

Re: [Goanet] Anglo-Indians

[Roland Francis]

---
   http://www.GOANET.org 
---

   South Asian Film Festival in Goa from Fri (June 27) to Mon (June 30)

   At Kala Academy, and ESG, Panaji, Goa

 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-June/076384.html
---

Hi Eugene,
Rest assured the post on Anglo Indians was not a repost of any
previous article of mine. I wrote this one in June 2008 without
referring to any material except my memory.

Roland.

On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 4:30 AM, Eugene Correia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I believe Roland post on Anglo-Indians appeared long ago. If it was reposted 
> I am not sure.

Re: [Goanet] Anglo-Indians

[Eugene Correia]

---
   http://www.GOANET.org 
---

   South Asian Film Festival in Goa from Fri (June 27) to Mon (June 30)

   At Kala Academy, and ESG, Panaji, Goa

 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-June/076384.html
---

I believe Roland post on Anglo-Indians appeared long ago. If it was reposted I 
am not sure.
I have seen Cotton Mary, 36 Cowringhee Lane and Bhowani Junction but not the 
fourth one, Bow Barracks Foreveer that Ana Maria de souza-Goswami mentioned.
Cotton Mary and 36 Cowringhee Lane tackle different themes, but the core issue 
is the death pangs of a dying community seen through the central characters. If 
Ismail Merchant has captured the family problems in Cotton Mary, Aparna Sen has 
captured the loneliness of an ageing school teacher.
Bhowani Junction, from the book by John Masters, one of the classics of the 
Indian-Anglican fiction, is, I think, in black and white. Eva Gardner looks 
stunning in the movie that shows love and infidelity in the British army.
Sadly, the Anglo-Indian community is in decline in India, just like the Parsis 
or the mesticos in Goa or the Bene Israel Jews of Kerala. Migration of new 
generations of Anglos to countries such as England, Australia and Canada has 
created a vacuum in the community population in India.
Time moves on and in its wake takes away layers of history.

Eugene 




  

[Goanet] Anglo-Indians

[Ana Maria de souza-Goswami]

---
  http://www.GOANET.org 
---

  South Asian Film Festival in Goa from Fri (June 27) to Mon (June 30)

  At Kala Academy, and ESG, Panaji, Goa

http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-June/076384.html
---

I thoroughly enjoyed the article on the Anglo-Indians. It reminded me when 
my father was in the Army and when I studied in North-India.  Also had a few 
Anglo-Indian friends in Bangalore.


There have been a few films made about them, one was Bowani Junction, 
39Chowringhee Lane and Bow Barrecks Forever.


Ana Maria de Souza-Goswami 

Re: [Goanet] Anglo?

[Vidyadhar Gadgil]

> From: " Frederick [FN] Noronha *    "
>   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [Goanet] Anglo?
> 
> Is it true that cricket administrator A F de Melo was Anglo-Indian?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_de_Mello_%28cricket_administrator%29

In Ramachandra Guha's book on cricket, 'A Corner of a Forgotten
Field', A.S. D'Mello, who was secretary to R.E. Grant-Govan.

"Born in Karachi in 1898, and of Goan extraction, D'Mello studied
in England and returned to become a boxwallah in Delhi."

Guha credits him, along with Grant Govan, for setting up the BCCI.
He was Secretary of BCCI and President from 1946-47 to 1950-51. A
supporter of the Mumbai Pentangular cricket, he came round to the
view that it was communal cricket, and was instrumental in
founding and popularising the Ranji trophy.

The Wikipedia entry would seem to need some correction. Could it
be that D'Mello tried to pass himself off as an Anglo because of
the benefits this would confer during colonial times?

-- 
Question everything -- Karl Marx

[Goanet] Anglo?

[Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोन्या]

Is it true that cricket administrator A F de Melo was Anglo-Indian?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_de_Mello_%28cricket_administrator%29
-- 
Frederick FN Noronha * Independent Journalist
http://fn.goa-india.org * Phone +91-832-2409490
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fredericknoronha

Re: [Goanet] Anglo-Indians

[JOHN MONTEIRO]

Victor
   
  Thanks for that, its always good to hear all (other) sides, Some coins may 
have more than 2 sides, certainly this subject has several sides to it.  All 
true & of personal experiences.
   
  I was only 11 in 1961, so my memories, when they come to the fore, are 
usually (mostly) of a rose-tinted variety.  For a child in Goa in the 1950's my 
whole childhood, (though partly marred by father's work, which my brother & I 
knew nothing about), was for the most part idyllic.  
   
  It was a time when you made your own amusements, made great friendships & 
prior to going to boarding school at LHS I loved Goa & all things Goan.  Now 
soon-to-be 58 on 17 June, nothing much has changed for me to consider Goans 
anything other than wonderful people, (generally speaking, not inc the corrupt 
policitians, bribeable police, developers/destroyers of the land, profit 
hunters who are decimating parts of Goa as though its their private fifedom). I 
am talking all-things Goan, not just the bits of my childhood, you have to live 
the life to appreciate it, remembering things of the past, is a powerful tool.  
I think back to all the nicer times that I remember.  Occasionally I let myself 
wander down memory lane for a while, only to discover that my eyes well up and 
I am shedding tears!! Silly, stupid old man that I am.
   
  That is because of the happiness I enjoyed as a child, my tears are not of 
regret or hurt, they are of pleasure, the happy times I had in my childhood, 
but was never able to thank my mother for it.  Though it was a very stressful & 
bad time for my mother, those ten-odd years she spent with me & my brother (he 
was born 1 Nov 1954 in Goa), she was our backbone, the strength of the family & 
shielded us from (all) harm.
   
  Yes, also Maria D'Souza was a kind, affectionate & lovely woman.  I never saw 
any Anglo-Indian treating any 'pure' Goans (can anyone describe a 'pure' Goan?) 
with either contempt or in any racist language or in any superior way.  But I 
was child so probably didnt see it.  I certainly saw my Portuguese father being 
a racist (b4st4rd) towards ALL non-Portuguese (inc my mother who was of 
English/French descent). But it was not just my father, the majority of the 
Portuguese we were allowed to mix with were this way, I was always 
uncomfortable in their company.
   
  "Some of my best friends were Goan.." comes to mind, in fact I 
dont think I ever had any Portuguese friends, always trying to avoid them 
either at LHS or when around my paternal father's relatives, male or female, 
didnt like any of them, they were all too 'superior' & certainly were racist, 
the whole ruddy lot of them. So I can honestly say, "All of my friends 
were Goan, some were of the Catholic faith (as I was), some were of the Hindu 
faith (as I am now), but friends we were.together!"
   
  Times have changed, I may have mellowed a bit, gone elsewhere (spiritually) 
compared to my childhood, but otherwise, never set foot again in Portugal 
(after a long 8 months in 1958), nor had any contact (until this year) of any 
of my father's relatives.
   
  But whether a Goan is of a melange of different races or creeds, or whether 
blue / green / brown eyed, this is not an issue, Goans are all ONE tribe, 
certainly mixed in the majority, but now with "pure-bred" Indians adding to the 
flavour of Goa, perhaps a higher percentage of Goan children yet to be born, 
and their children after them will be a lot "purer" and closer to the 
Euro-Asian bloodline than the European mix of Portuguese & England, or the rest 
of the world.  Not forgetting the smaller percentages coming in from the Arabic 
& Israeli worlds, the Chinese & other oriental, perhaps even from Africa, via 
Mozambique, Angola..
   
  Its a grand mix, and its Goa!  A unique 'pearl of the orient'
   
  John Monteiro
  

Victor Rangel-Ribeiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote Dear John, My memory goes back 
a bit farther than yours. If Anglo-Indians were disliked in the years 
immediately preceding Independence, could it be because Anglo-Indians generally 
treated us Indians as inferior beings. and personally was 
exposed daily to Anglo hostility. I also had wonderful Anglo-Indian friends, 
but they were all of the dark-skinned variety.. There were problems in 
Goa, too, with the mesticos. Some of them were more Portuguese than the 
Portuguese themselves; many were outright racists. Things, as you say, have 
changed. Regards, Victor 
---
From: JOHN MONTEIRO  How times have changed, and for the better. My mother's 
best friend in 1950's was Maria D'Souza. She was an 'Anglo-Indian' with a fair 
complexion. She dressed in traditional clothes, sarees were the only clothes I 
saw her in, never a skirt.  Chi-Chi (pronounced CHEE CHEE) was a common 
derogatory word us

Re: [Goanet] Anglo-Indians

[Victor Rangel-Ribeiro]

Dear John,
 My memory goes back a bit farther than yours. If 
Anglo-Indians were disliked in the years immediately preceding Independence, 
could it be because Anglo-Indians generally treated us Indians as inferior 
beings, to be pushed around and abused, verbally as well as sometimes 
physically? I lived in Bombay from 1939 on, and personally was exposed daily to 
Anglo hostility. I also had wonderful Anglo-Indian friends, but they were all 
of the dark-skinned variety. They stayed on in Bombay after the 
pseudo-Europeans migrated en masse to Old Blighty, and then came back "home" 
when they found themselves being treated in England as second-class citizens.
 There were problems in Goa, too, with the mesticos. 
Some of them were more Portuguese than the Portuguese themselves; many were 
outright racists.
 Things, as you say, have changed.
 Regards,
 Victor

--- On Sat, 6/7/08, JOHN MONTEIRO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: JOHN MONTEIRO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Anglo-Indians
To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" <goanet@lists.goanet.org>
Date: Saturday, June 7, 2008, 4:10 AM

How times have changed, and for the better.  My mother's best friend in
1950's was Maria D'Souza.  She was an 'Anglo-Indian' with a
fair complexion.  She dressed in traditional clothes, sarees were the only
clothes I saw her in, never a skirt.  
   
   
  She was a very modest lady, who would have died before showing her legs in
public.  She had very long hair, again this was in the traditional style, with
appropriate styles for the occasions she was at.  I think its wonderful that in
Goa there was not the hatred & loathing of the 'Anglo-Indian' as it
was in other parts of India.
   
   
  Chi-Chi (pronounced CHEE CHEE) was a common derogatory word used to describe
anyone who was not of 'pure' Indian blood. The worst time for
Anglo-Indians in other parts of India was just before Indian Independence when
there were issues about any connection with Britain (pre-1947) & afterwards
when the 'mixed' race chi-chi were frowned upon by all Indians,
advantages were taken of them & there was violence against them from the
extremists, even their neighbours spat & hit them, as if it was their fault
that the British invaded their country.
   
   
 

Re: [Goanet] Anglo-Indians

[JOHN MONTEIRO]

How times have changed, and for the better.  My mother's best friend in 1950's 
was Maria D'Souza.  She was an 'Anglo-Indian' with a fair complexion.  She 
dressed in traditional clothes, sarees were the only clothes I saw her in, 
never a skirt.  
   
   
  She was a very modest lady, who would have died before showing her legs in 
public.  She had very long hair, again this was in the traditional style, with 
appropriate styles for the occasions she was at.  I think its wonderful that in 
Goa there was not the hatred & loathing of the 'Anglo-Indian' as it was in 
other parts of India.
   
   
  Chi-Chi (pronounced CHEE CHEE) was a common derogatory word used to describe 
anyone who was not of 'pure' Indian blood. The worst time for Anglo-Indians in 
other parts of India was just before Indian Independence when there were issues 
about any connection with Britain (pre-1947) & afterwards when the 'mixed' race 
chi-chi were frowned upon by all Indians, advantages were taken of them & there 
was violence against them from the extremists, even their neighbours spat & hit 
them, as if it was their fault that the British invaded their country.
   
   
  At least in Goa (unless there are stories otherwise), I have not heard of 
anyone who had any problems with the Goan people, after all they were Goan 
themselves. I miss those days, Maria D'Souza is most probably passed away by 
now, or she would be around 80 to 85 years old. 
   
  John Monteiro
  

Ana Maria de souza-Goswami <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote Why does everyone think 
that anglo indians have to be fair. Selma remarked that a dusky friend of hers 
called herself Anglo-Indian. I lived four years in Bangalore and knew a lot of 
Anglos. 90% of them were dark, very few were fair. The Anglos asked me whether 
I was one, because of my very fair complexion, and when I said 'Goan', then of 
course, 'But you must have some 
Portuguese blood'. Ana Maria de Souza-Goswami 
-




Regards
  John Monteiro  

Re: [Goanet] Anglo-Indians

[Carvalho]

--- On Fri, 6/6/08, Ana Maria de souza-Goswami <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Why does everyone  think that anglo indians have to be fair.
> Selma remarked 
> that a dusky friend of hers called herself Anglo-Indian.  I
> lived four years 
> in Bangalore and knew a lot of Anglos.  90% of them were
> dark, very few were 
> fair. 
--
Ana Maria,
My point is not whether they are fair or dark-skinned. My point is they are not 
first-generation bi-racial. Most of them are possibly second to third 
generation bi-racial and some can't even trace exactly where or how. So, if we 
do have special reservations or special status (term du jour in India), then 
how are they going to prove their antecedents? Just calling dahl, dol does not 
an Anglo make.

In my family too, we have a lot of fair-skinned green-eyed monsters. Whether a 
bottle of Portugual's cheap Port Vinho had something to do with it or whether 
Punjab's best ganga had something to do with it, we don't know or care. We are 
Indian Goans and that's good enough for us.

selma


  

[Goanet] Anglo-Indians

[Ana Maria de souza-Goswami]

Why does everyone  think that anglo indians have to be fair. Selma remarked 
that a dusky friend of hers called herself Anglo-Indian.  I lived four years 
in Bangalore and knew a lot of Anglos.  90% of them were dark, very few were 
fair. The Anglos asked me whether I was one, because of my very fair 
complexion, and when I said 'Goan', then of course, 'But you must have some 
Portuguese blood'.


Even in Ajmer, Shimla, etc one finds both dark and fair skinned Anglos.

when I visitedAustralia met a few anglos of mixed complexion.

In all communities one finds different colour skins.

Ana Maria de Souza-Goswami 

Re: [Goanet] ‘Anglo-Indians shown in poor light, we are not a bunch of drunkards’

[Gabe Menezes]

* G * O * A * N * E * T  C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S *

 GARCA BRANCA
VACATION ACCOMMODATION
 LOUTULIM, SOUTH GOA.
 For R&R; modern/clean amenities; serene, healthy and wholesome location

Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation.


On 02/08/07, Goanet News <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 'Anglo-Indians shown in poor light, we are not a bunch of drunkards'


> The film could have dwelt on positive aspects, feels Martin. "Our boys
> organise football and cricket matches too but all we have in the movie
> is drunkards and people who beat up their wives. Moreover, one
> character speaks with a Goan accent. Does Dutta want to say we don't
> even know how to speak English," questions Martin.

QUESTION, For Martin: Goans don't even know how to speak English..if
so only with a Goan accent ?

-- 
DEV BOREM KORUM.

Gabe Menezes.
London, England

Re: [Goanet] 'Anglo-Indians shown in poor light, we are not a bunch of drunkards'

[Iona Gomez]

* G * O * A * N * E * T  C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S *

 GARCA BRANCA
VACATION ACCOMMODATION
 LOUTULIM, SOUTH GOA.
 For R&R; modern/clean amenities; serene, healthy and wholesome location

Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation.


Does speaking with a Goan accent mean Goans do not know how to speak 
English???

? Moreover, one character speaks with a Goan accent.  Does Dutta want to say 
we don't even know how to speak English," questions Martin.?


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[Goanet] ‘Anglo-Indians shown in poor light, we are not a bunch of drunkards’

[Goanet News]

* G * O * A * N * E * T  C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S *

 GARCA BRANCA
VACATION ACCOMMODATION
 LOUTULIM, SOUTH GOA.
 For R&R; modern/clean amenities; serene, healthy and wholesome location

Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation.


http://cities.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=248648

'Anglo-Indians shown in poor light, we are not a bunch of drunkards'
Suchetana Haldar

Kolkata, July 31: DIRECTOR Anjan Dutta's film Bow Barracks Forever has
left the Anglo-Indian community of the Bow Street neighbourhood
fuming.

The depiction of Anglo-Indians in the film is in poor taste and paints
the quaint little neighbourhood in a negative light, the community
says. "We are very disappointed with the film," says Cyril Bruce
Lindsay, joint secretary of the Bow United Organisation.

Residents say the film is based on half-truths and presents a highly
distorted portrayal of Bow Barracks. "We have struggled against all
odds to see that the Bow Barracks are preserved, but the film comes as
a blow to our efforts," says Joyce Martin, a music teacher at
Ballygunge Shiksha Sadan.

"Its an embarrassment. Now, I have to face my students and collaegues
and they all know that I live in the Bow Barracks," says Martin, the
only Anglo-Indian teacher in her school.

Fifty-year-old Donald Lobo, too, does not mince any words in
criticising Dutta's flick. "I have lived here all my life but can't
relate to the incidents that have been shown in the movie," says Lobo.
"Our children and grandchildren are growing up and the portrayal of
the community in the film can have a very adverse impact on their
psyche. Dutta has hurt our feelings," he points out.

"We have a Peter but not a 'cheater'," Jason says, referring to a
character in the film.

The film could have dwelt on positive aspects, feels Martin. "Our boys
organise football and cricket matches too but all we have in the movie
is drunkards and people who beat up their wives. Moreover, one
character speaks with a Goan accent. Does Dutta want to say we don't
even know how to speak English," questions Martin.

The residents of Bow Barracks now want to take action. "We want to sue
Dutta and we are sure he will not have the guts to step in here again"
is the common refrain.

My story is just a work of fiction, says Anjan Dutta
Anjan Dutta says his film is a celebration of the Anglo-Indian
community. "Nowhere have I claimed that it (Bow Barracks Forever) is a
documentary. My story is a work of fiction based on a true location. I
respect the community and they have left an influence on my music too.
The whole issue has been misused," Dutta told Newsline.

-- 
Frederick Noronha  Journalist http://fn.goa-india.org
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
P: +91-832-2409490 M: +91-9970157402
Yahoo: fredericknoronha Skype: fredericknoronha GTalk: fredericknoronha
784, Sonarbhat, Near Lourdes Convent, Saligao 403511 Goa India

Re: [Goanet] Anglo-Indians (Michael Ferreia)

[Eugene Correia]

To correct myself, Michael Ferreira won the world
billiards (not snooker) four times. 
Here's what I picked from the net (partly).
"Born Bombay (Now Mumbai), 1 October 1938
Nicknamed ‘Bombay Tiger’, Michael Ferreira, four times
world Billiards champion, was a rebel with a cause
during his playing days. In 1981, after winning the
world title for a second time, he was offered the
Padma Shri while Sunil Gavaskar was conferred with the
more prestigious Padma Bhushan. His reply to the
Government of India letter was, “My achievements in
Billiards are in no way inferior to that of Sunil
Gavaskar’s in Cricket. If he deserves a Padma Bhushan,
I do too. The Government should treat all games
equally.” He refused to accept the award.

Eugene Correia


 

Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited 
(http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited)

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Re: [Goanet] Anglo India's Singers - for Alfred

[Roland Francis]

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  House for Sale: Recently restored and renovated 350 sq. mtr
   Antique Type House on 1,125 sq mtr property in Coimavaddo, Aldona
  No brokerage offered. Serious buyers only

 Visit http://www.goa-world.com/goa/aldonahouse for details

Victor,
On confirming the facts, it transpires that Tony Brent was born in
1926 (not 1937) and left Byculla in 1947. He died in Australia in
1993. Could it be that since his parents kept him away from the local
lads, he might have not mixed around with them?

Anyway, I shall further confirm with some older Byculla Anglo-Indian
friends who have settled here in Canada where exactly he is rumored to
have lived. Becomes interesting doesn't it? To me specially since I
was also a Byculla boy of a much later age than yours, prowling with
the guys in Spence Road, Christchurch Road and the lanes off Clare
Road in order to prey on all those frisky females from Convent of
Jesus and Mary, St Agnes, the Berkeley Palace Railway quarters and the
Anglo-Indian orphan beauties living at The Shelter in Clare Road.

We had so much pity for those orphans that we aspired to hold them and
comfort them if we could.  And they, to their credit never refused the
comfort offered if it meant an evening at the movies with
rugda-patties from the Irani Restaurant below the Oxford Park and
Habib Chambers buildings thrown in. Admittedly, life was really fun in
Byculla for us Goans, mixing naturally with the Anglo Indian community
there, until they started leaving in droves for Australia in the 60s
and early 70s. Even the Muslims and Bene-Israelis kept up with our
speech style, habits and moves and could have passed off as some of
our own, as you will no doubt remember even though it's been 50 years
ago for you.

With regards, Roland.


> Roland Francis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Tony Brent

> Dear Roland,
>I lived on Spence Road in Byculla from 1940, when I was fourteen,
> until July 1956, when I left with my wife and infant daughter for America.
> As a teenager I knew every kid on the block, whether Goan, Anglo-Indian,
> Bene-Israelite, Muslim, or Hindu. The only Reggie there was Reggie
> deLappa-Soares, a Goan. There were no Britagnes in any of the six buildings
> that lined our little blind alley. Could he have moved to Spence Road in the
> late 1950s?
>Best regards,
>Victor



-- 
Roland Francis
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Re: [Goanet] Anglo India's Singers - for Alfred

[Victor Rangel-Ribeiro]

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  House for Sale: Recently restored and renovated 350 sq. mtr
   Antique Type House on 1,125 sq mtr property in Coimavaddo, Aldona
  No brokerage offered. Serious buyers only

 Visit http://www.goa-world.com/goa/aldonahouse for details


Roland Francis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Tony Brent

Hi Eric,
Here's some info on Tony Brent which may interest you.

He was born Reginald Britagne (pronounced Britayne) in Bombay in 1937
but later changed his name to Brent. Mother was part Irish and father
part French. His parents encouraged him not to associate with or call
himself an Anglo-Indian. He lived in Spence Lane, Byculla, with his
family. He left India when his career took him to Australia and
England in the early 50s and also had some hits in the US at around
that time. He later settled in Australia where he opened an Indian
Restaurant in Sydney.

Dear Roland,
   I lived on Spence Road in Byculla from 1940, when I was fourteen, 
until July 1956, when I left with my wife and infant daughter for America. 
As a teenager I knew every kid on the block, whether Goan, Anglo-Indian, 
Bene-Israelite, Muslim, or Hindu. The only Reggie there was Reggie 
deLappa-Soares, a Goan. There were no Britagnes in any of the six buildings 
that lined our little blind alley. Could he have moved to Spence Road in the 
late 1950s?
   Best regards,
   Victor 

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Re: [Goanet] Anglo India's Singers - for Alfred

[Roland Francis]

* G * O * A * N * E * T  C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S *

  House for Sale: Recently restored and renovated 350 sq. mtr
   Antique Type House on 1,125 sq mtr property in Coimavaddo, Aldona
  No brokerage offered. Serious buyers only

 Visit http://www.goa-world.com/goa/aldonahouse for details

Tony Brent

Hi Eric,
Here's some info on Tony Brent which may interest you.

He was born Reginald Britagne (pronounced Britayne) in Bombay in 1937
but later changed his name to Brent. Mother was part Irish and father
part French. His parents encouraged him not to associate with or call
himself an Anglo-Indian. He lived in Spence Lane, Byculla, with his
family. He left India when his career took him to Australia and
England in the early 50s and also had some hits in the US at around
that time. He later settled in Australia where he opened an Indian
Restaurant in Sydney.

He released his last CD in 2000 called The Magic Of Tony Brent through
Tower Records. Don't know if he is still alive, but you can email his
daughter Karen Bretagne at [EMAIL PROTECTED] to get any other
information.

Wickipedia has some pretty detailed personal info on our friends
Englebert and Cliff Richard:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engelbert_Humperdinck_(singer)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Richard
Cliff Richard's Anglo Indian ancestry is mentioned though he might
have posed as being born to British parents in India.

Reminds me of the several chuckles I intoned when I used to hear our
Africander Goan boys call him Clf Richard when they came to Goa in
the first repatriation waves of the 60s with their family's Ford
Anglia's and Volkswagen Beetles. Didn't take their poor fathers too
long to spend away their savings which they hoped would stretch a long
way in Goa, then beating a hasty retreat to England to make it their
permanent home. Though of course their version is that they didn't
like the life in Goa. Can't blame them, though it is funny when taken
in context of todays dirty Goa as compared to the beautiful Goa of the
60s, that these same repatriates/expatriates are now making Goa their
final destination. Which may be fine after all as this time around
they have the retirement money funded from their savings, pensions and
possible sale of homes which have appreciated considerably in the past
10 years to more than last them their remaining lifetimes.

I am talking of the older folk as their children have integrated too
much in English, American, Canadian and Australian societies to follow
the same path as their dads.

Nota Bene my dear Africanders, these gratuitous comments are only
observations made by a Bombayite, with malice towards none.

On 10/19/06, eric pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> We  were proud of  "our Tony Brent",  my mother's very proud claim,  and she
> was there, up in the front rows,  when he returned to perform at the Metro
> Cinema in Bombay in the late 50's.  I believe he had  lived on Sankli Street
> in Byculla.
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[Goanet] Anglo India's Singers - for Alfred

[eric pinto]

* G * O * A * N * E * T  C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S *

  House for Sale: Recently restored and renovated 350 sq. mtr
   Antique Type House on 1,125 sq mtr property in Coimavaddo, Aldona
  No brokerage offered. Serious buyers only

 Visit http://www.goa-world.com/goa/aldonahouse for details

We  were proud of  "our Tony Brent",  my mother's very proud claim,  and she 
was there, up in the front rows,  when he returned to perform at the Metro 
Cinema in Bombay in the late 50's.  I believe he had  lived on Sankli Street 
in Byculla.

   Cliff grew up in Lucknow.  His father worked for Brandons,  the railway 
catering concession.  He denies being  Eurasian, in his autobiography, but 
then Merle Oberon denied her own mother in Hollywood !

   Engle-Dink also dodges his past.  I am told of the existance of a sister, 
a nun, lives in Goa, so there very well may be a Goa connection.  The Wall 
Sreet Journal wrote him when he turned sixty: naturally, they disclosed his 
nett - 600 million dollars !  George, a Sudharop lead, perhaps ! 
eric.


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