Re: [Goanet] Church accounting tools
--- *** Follow Goanet on Twitter *** http://twitter.com/goanet --- Well said that, Rico. "he seems to be damned if he does and damned if he doesn't!" sums up the whole argument as far as Fr. Diogo is concerned. I have taken note of what you say about the accounting system of the governemnt. Goa Su-Raj will ensure that all govt. accounting is based on double entry when it takes over form the Delhi-Nagpur-Maharashtra High Commands. This item will find its way into the S-Raj Road Map for sure. Coming back to the priests, misappropriation of church funds, advertisements et al, All this hardly follows in the footsteps of Jesus Christ. This certainly is not seen as "turning the other cheek" but overturning the other's cheek :-)) Cheers floriano goasuraj 9890470896 www.goasu-raj.org - Original Message - From: "Frederick Noronha" To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [Goanet] Church accounting tools Hi Floriano and Albert: I was not on the point of honesty or dishonesty of priests or the fabrica, but only whether the due accounting systems are in place. It's a matter of concern that even governments in India do not have the equivalent of a balance sheet when they submit their accounts each year. So, while you can trace where the money has come and gone each year (through their income and expenditure statements), there is no cummulative tally of assets built over the years. For that reason, it's possible to "build" a road in seven consecutive budgets, without anyone noticing anything amiss! Businessmen, being the smart guys they are in protecting their own interests and assets, must have got it right when they opted to go in for double-entry based bookkeeping! As far as Fr Diago goes, just to play devil's advocate (no pun intended), he seems to be damned if he does and damned if he doesn't! If he had got no adverts on his birthday, that would have been interpreted as a lack of popular support. Now that he has garnered so many, what does it say? Is it his way of responding to the trial-by-CD that Calvert et al have undertaken? (Needless to say, the newspapers will be laughing all the way to the bank!) Finally, doesn't it say something that he's able to build visible public support, at a time when his reputation is being besmirched through CDs, et al? One way or the other, I have no interest in defending or attacking Fr Diago. But trial-by-press (including by CD) doesn't seem to be the right way of correcting wrongs. Or perceived wrongs. FN On 2 March 2010 00:56, floriano wrote:
Re: [Goanet] Church accounting tools
--- *** Follow Goanet on Twitter *** http://twitter.com/goanet --- Hi Floriano and Albert: I was not on the point of honesty or dishonesty of priests or the fabrica, but only whether the due accounting systems are in place. It's a matter of concern that even governments in India do not have the equivalent of a balance sheet when they submit their accounts each year. So, while you can trace where the money has come and gone each year (through their income and expenditure statements), there is no cummulative tally of assets built over the years. For that reason, it's possible to "build" a road in seven consecutive budgets, without anyone noticing anything amiss! Businessmen, being the smart guys they are in protecting their own interests and assets, must have got it right when they opted to go in for double-entry based bookkeeping! As far as Fr Diago goes, just to play devil's advocate (no pun intended), he seems to be damned if he does and damned if he doesn't! If he had got no adverts on his birthday, that would have been interpreted as a lack of popular support. Now that he has garnered so many, what does it say? Is it his way of responding to the trial-by-CD that Calvert et al have undertaken? (Needless to say, the newspapers will be laughing all the way to the bank!) Finally, doesn't it say something that he's able to build visible public support, at a time when his reputation is being besmirched through CDs, et al? One way or the other, I have no interest in defending or attacking Fr Diago. But trial-by-press (including by CD) doesn't seem to be the right way of correcting wrongs. Or perceived wrongs. FN On 2 March 2010 00:56, floriano wrote: > `I do not know much about the misappropriation of church funds by parish > priests ( a la Colva), but I do know that one parish priest of Moira had a > free hand misappropriating church funds with impunity, so much so, that when > he was especially instructed by the special committee set up to put the > church accounts in order, to bank the spare cash (unusually large amount) in > hand, he tried to get the sympathy of the Sunday congregation by justifying > to it why he must hold the cash in hand. That was his undoing and he landed > in Church Siberia before he could say jack robbins. > > And I thought only petty politician solicit birthday ads in the newspapers. > But then, who said parish priest are not thorough politicians? Today's > Herald sports among other smaller numerous ads, a full back page ad in > praise of Fr. Diogo M. Fernandes of Colva. Today, Fr. Diogo is famous not > only through the 'Dogui Bodmas' CD but through Herald as well as Prudent > Media which hosted an indebt interview with Calvert Gonsalves. If the > Bishop should authorize full size HOARDINGS along the National Highways to > promote its industrious Parish Priests, the potential is such that the > hoarding business will topping the SENSEX. -- Frederick Noronha Columnist :: journalism :: editing :: alt.publishing :: photography :: blogging P +91-832-2409490 M +91-9822122436 A:784 Saligao 403511 Goa India Please add a 'signature' below your email. Makes it easy when someone wants to contact you!
Re: [Goanet] Church accounting tools
--- *** Follow Goanet on Twitter *** http://twitter.com/goanet --- `I do not know much about the misappropriation of church funds by parish priests ( a la Colva), but I do know that one parish priest of Moira had a free hand misappropriating church funds with impunity, so much so, that when he was especially instructed by the special committee set up to put the church accounts in order, to bank the spare cash (unusually large amount) in hand, he tried to get the sympathy of the Sunday congregation by justifying to it why he must hold the cash in hand. That was his undoing and he landed in Church Siberia before he could say jack robbins. And I thought only petty politician solicit birthday ads in the newspapers. But then, who said parish priest are not thorough politicians? Today's Herald sports among other smaller numerous ads, a full back page ad in praise of Fr. Diogo M. Fernandes of Colva. Today, Fr. Diogo is famous not only through the 'Dogui Bodmas' CD but through Herald as well as Prudent Media which hosted an indebt interview with Calvert Gonsalves. If the Bishop should authorize full size HOARDINGS along the National Highways to promote its industrious Parish Priests, the potential is such that the hoarding business will topping the SENSEX. Cheers floriano goasuraj - Original Message - From: "Albert Desouza" To: "Major domo goanet" Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 10:56 PM Subject: [Goanet] Church accounting tools Albert replies to Fredrico Noronha:- The church is a registered body registered under the society act of 1860. Its name and members and the governing body is kept a secret. This society works with the help of Fabrica whose members are also selected by the governing body. This society forces the parishioners to sponser every thing that the church needs without spending a pie from its account. People mainly lay people feel that it is our church and when you give to church you give to God and so they donate. This society has been taking undue advantage of this belief of the lay people. Huge halls have been built, libraries etc etc . We grumble that the church property has been sold by the parish priest but in reality it is sold by the managing committee after passing a resolution at the general body meeting.There are selected lay people who are members of the governing body of this society but the church will not disclose their names. Surprisingly even many of the priests are unware of this society .Our priests are poorly paid. Half of the money is sent to the bishop house (to this society in secret) many priest feel that if they pocket some percentage from the amount it is no sin. Many times a large donation is given in cash which they tend to pocket. so the reason to have big bank balance and lux. cars. and rich living. There are still many who are in the remote areas whose sunday collection is peanuts . Some churches the sunday collection is around five to six hundred rupees a sunday.what happens to the money which goes from the church is not known to us but it is manipulated and accouted.
[Goanet] Church accounting tools
--- *** Follow Goanet on Twitter *** http://twitter.com/goanet --- Albert replies to Fredrico Noronha:- The church is a registered body registered under the society act of 1860. Its name and members and the governing body is kept a secret. This society works with the help of Fabrica whose members are also selected by the governing body. This society forces the parishioners to sponser every thing that the church needs without spending a pie from its account. People mainly lay people feel that it is our church and when you give to church you give to God and so they donate. This society has been taking undue advantage of this belief of the lay people. Huge halls have been built, libraries etc etc . We grumble that the church property has been sold by the parish priest but in reality it is sold by the managing committee after passing a resolution at the general body meeting.There are selected lay people who are members of the governing body of this society but the church will not disclose their names. Surprisingly even many of the priests are unware of this society .Our priests are poorly paid. Half of the money is sent to the bishop house (to this society in secret) many priest feel that if they pocket some percentage from the amount it is no sin. Many times a large donation is given in cash which they tend to pocket. so the reason to have big bank balance and lux. cars. and rich living. There are still many who are in the remote areas whose sunday collection is peanuts . Some churches the sunday collection is around five to six hundred rupees a sunday.what happens to the money which goes from the church is not known to us but it is manipulated and accouted. _ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969
[Goanet] Church accounting tools
--- *** Follow Goanet on Twitter *** http://twitter.com/goanet --- By chance, while searching for online home-accounting tools, I came across this: http://www.freechurchaccounting.com/basicaccounting.html Maybe someone better qualified in the field could comment on this. Do you think that a (large) part of the current concerns about the poor management of church assets could be linked to the fact that there is so little financial control and regular evaluation, particularly of assets? From reading the above, it looks that most churches in Goa probably have in place only some rudimentary system of single-entry bookkeeping. Of course, I could be wrong on this, since I am no expert in the subject. I am still puzzled why the assets are improperly assessed. Part of the problem could have to do with growing dishonesty levels among a section of us in society. But I suspect that much more has to do with poor accounting procedures, which mean that anyone with questionable motives can then take the system for a ride. FN PS: I do agree that, when intentions are bad, it's possible to fool even the best of accounting systems. Ask PwC about their Satyam episode. -- Frederick Noronha Columnist :: journalism :: editing :: alt.publishing :: photography :: blogging P +91-832-2409490 M +91-9822122436 A:784 Saligao 403511 Goa India Please add a 'signature' below your email. Makes it easy when someone wants to contact you!
