Re: [Goanet] Goan, be exclusionary
Excellent ,well thought out to help Goa for a brighter and tolerant future- be part of a n increasingly closing in world! Anita mathew. On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Goanet Reader wrote: Goan, be exclusionary DEVIL'S ADVOCATE/ Frederick Noronha For a small place like Goa, where we are always short of critical mass, you would think that every individual counted. One would have thought that we all would be trying to widen the circle, involve more people, and be more inclusive.
Re: [Goanet] Goan, be exclusionary
Dear Frederick! I love your deep reflection. It is impportant as our days. Thanks, Silvia 2009/6/4 Goanet Reader Goan, be exclusionary DEVIL'S ADVOCATE/ Frederick Noronha For a small place like Goa, where we are always short of critical mass, you would think that every individual counted.
Re: [Goanet] Goan, be exclusionary
Firstly, I am bit confused by the heading, Goan, be exclusionary, when the
piece calls for Goans to be inclusive, if I have understood it correctly from
the sentence -- One would have thought that we all would be trying to widen the
circle, involve more people, and be more inclusive -- at the start of second
paragragh.
In the next para, Fred says "Goa is indeed a region with heavy rate of
outmigration." I am sure he is indeed talking of native Goans or "niz" Goenkars
going out of Goa in large numbers, but the reality is that there is lot of
cross-border migration into Goa.
Another confusing statement is that Goans "they've learnt a diversity of
tongues while doing so, from Swahili to Marathi to Burmese, while doing so." It
seems that Goans learnt the languages while migrating, possibly on the ships
that carried them to East Africa and Burma, and on trains, buses and steamers
that took them to Maharashtra. I thought Goans learnt these foreign languages
after they settled in foreign lands for a considerable period of time.
This sentence, "With linguistic diversity
and skills seen as something positive that could enrich the
region", should have been combined with the preceding sentence, {So, it would
be natural to expect that
the diversity would be tolerated" with a comma. Left alone, it dangles.
Why the question mark in this sentence, "We exclude
people on the basis of caste, ethnicity, class, migration,
education and knowledge (or lack of knowledge) of a language?" Isn't Fr
Stephens Konknni Kendr one institution that conducts Konknni courses?
"At other points of time, one has attempted to pick up Hindi, German,
Kannada..." Why "one has" instead of "I have"?
"In the 'sixties, if you were an young expat returning to Goa, there was good
reason to feel excluded." Can Fred qualify this statement.
I do not understand what "bizarre medium of instruction policy" means, and I
thought it is parents who pay for their children's education. Sad that
"children not affluent enough to pay..."
>From what I have read, communalism in Goa is a post-1961 phenomenon, forget it
>being an "invention." I don't know how things were complex during the
>Portuguese rule and how "class and caste" can determine communalism.
>Communalism is based on religion, as I have learnt. Discrimination on class
>and caste is vastly different from communalism.
I do not think "language can be tied up with communalism" The example of the
Marathi press raking up issues over conversions is not directly linked to the
languages groups speak, such as evangelical groups that Fred has cited.
The issue is conversion and the issues around it can be "fueled" in any
language.
Caste is part of India's varna system from centuries ago and is unlike to go
away in at least another century. Goa is no exception. I don't see what has
been "morphing and changing", as the battle lines seem to have remained the
same.
Fred writes: "Gender has also been a tool for exclusion, though this might be
getting weaker of late." Gender is not necessarily a "tool for exclusion" but
used as a "tool" by those who want to discriminate and segregate. If Fred is
talking of the male gender, all Goan men, including Fred and me, should worry
that the "tool" is getting weaker ;-)
Fred, what about Goan women?
Thanks Fred for expounding a new socio-economic theory that "decades of
'development' has apparently only helped to create a section of young Goan
women caught in lives of quiet desperation, who apparently are only waiting for
the guile of a Mahananda to deprive them of their gold and their lives."
What BS is this, may I ask my dear Fred. Are these desperate women waiting for
a Casanova like Mahananda? To me, the man was smart to trap the women who came
in contact with him. I am not able to understand why you put development in
quotes. Goa's development has helped women progess in many fields and not
"helped" create a section of young women leading lives in quiet desperation. If
some young women are living lonely lives they should find some ways to keep
themselves engaged in social or cultural activities. Or, they should find the
right men to fall in love and, perhaps, marry instead of living in "quiet
desperation." Maybe, these victims found Mahanand to be the "right man" and
paid a heavy price with the lives. Wrong choice, baby!
As an expat Goan I never find myself "excluded" when I come to Goa. What
baseless statement. Can some of the expat goanetters tell us if they are
feeling "excluded"?
What "small cake" are we fighting for. Do you Fred mean Goa is a "small cake"?
If so, how to we expand it? In case we expand the cake, why then should we try
through "other means to "ensure that we get a bigger piece" of the cake?
Fred suggests that we should be big frogs in a big pond by being inclusive, and
not the other way around. Whatever we try to do, either being exclusive or
inclusive, there would be a "heavy price" to pay in terms "Goanit
Re: [Goanet] Goan, be exclusionary
Thank you for your visionary article. Being outside Goa majority of years in my life I sometime fail to find words to express in Konkanim on my first day in Goa even though by third day I surprise myself in full and complete Konkanim conversation. This also happens to me when I am with Portuguese conversation. We have to be kind to all and try to understand where one comes from. Ev en when we all are Goans. Barnabe Rodrigues - Original Message - From: "Goanet Reader" - Hide quoted text - Goan, be exclusionary DEVIL'S ADVOCATE/ Frederick Noronha For a small place like Goa, where we are always short of critical mass, you would think that every individual counted.
Re: [Goanet] Goan, be exclusionary
Very nice article. --- On Thu, 4/6/09, Goanet Reader wrote: Goan, be exclusionary DEVIL'S ADVOCATE/ Frederick Noronha For a small place like Goa, where we are always short of critical mass, you would think that every individual counted.
[Goanet] Goan, be exclusionary
Goan, be exclusionary DEVIL'S ADVOCATE/ Frederick Noronha For a small place like Goa, where we are always short of critical mass, you would think that every individual counted. One would have thought that we all would be trying to widen the circle, involve more people, and be more inclusive. Instead, the reality is different. We go about excluding one another, on the flimsiest of pretexts. Some days ago, one encountered one expat Goan berating another for not knowing to speak the local tongue. Let's not forget that Goa is indeed a region with heavy rate of outmigration. Many who live here now have spent part of their lives outside Goa. They've learnt a diversity of tongues while doing so, from Swahili to Marathi to Burmese, while doing so. Likewise, current South Asian realities mean we see many migrate into Goa too. So, it would be natural to expect that the diversity would be tolerated. With linguistic diversity and skills seen as something positive that could enrich the region. But this is hardly the case. Instead, we focus on people's weaknesses, rather than their strengths. We fail to set up effective institutions to teach people to learn Konkani, and then berate them for not knowing the language. We exclude people on the basis of caste, ethnicity, class, migration, education and knowledge (or lack of knowledge) of a language? To be honest, fluency in languages is not my forte. I've tried to learn Portuguese three to four times (unsuccessfully), written Konkani on as many occasions (and even in school), and Marathi (in school too). At other points of time, one has attempted to pick up Hindi, German, Kannada (while working for a newspaper in Bangalore, and barely got beyond a couple of words), Russian, and even Dutch (via radio stations) and failed at all! In the 'sixties, if you were an young expat returning to Goa, there was good reason to feel excluded. In the seventies and eighties, one would often be asked at every History seminar, "But do you know Portuguese then?" In the 'nineties, the lack of sufficient knowledge of Devanagari Konkani (by then, closely linked with the dominant dialect of Antruzi) was driven home at Konkani conferences! Knowing another dialect of Konkani, or the "wrong" script, was not good enough. I recall a Konkani conference held at Pernem, where the young organisers involved insisted on using the Pednem-dialect of Konkani even while speaking from the dais -- just to make the point that, yes, language too is about diversity. Now, when Marathi newspapers play a dominant role with at least half of Goa's readers, one wishes one was more fluent in that language to be able to go beyond the headlines. But wanting to learn a language is one thing; being excluded due to not knowing a tongue is something quite different. We are almost suggesting that the large numbers of Goans in the diaspora, who might be less than fluent in Konkani (or wholly innocent of the language) lose their right to Goanity, however one defines that. What happens when some variants of Konkani (Antruzi or Bardezi) alone are considered acceptable while many other spoken dialects (Saxtti, Pernem or the Kankon dialects) are not? Today, the bizarre medium of instruction policy means that children not affluent enough to pay to learn English at an early stage are falling into another exclusionary area. I think we need to be less exclusionary with our approaches. Sri Lanka, not too far from us, is a good example of the price the language chauvinism wrecks. But it is not on the basis of language alone that we discriminate. We treat the so-called "non-Goans" mostly with contempt, specially if they are poor. Yet, ethnicity alone doesn't make one pro-Goa. We repeatedly see -- in issues ranging from mining to politics, from mega-projects to the history of colonialism in Goa -- that ethnicity's link with Goa's interest is at best tenuous and inconsistent. Of course, communalism is another potent tool for exclusion; as is caste. Unlike what we'd like to believe, communalism in Goa is not a post-1961 invention. Of course, things were more complex earlier, with class and caste determining communalism. As Goa increasingly sees a sharp battle over local resources, communalism is being used as an easy alibi to justify questionable actions. Scrap-yards and vegetable vendors can be targeted because these ventures are run by Muslim (some of whom happen to be immigrants too, making them doubly vulnerable). Likewise, language can be tied up with communalism. An issue can be raked up over conversions -- happening in pockets of the State apparently by evangelical groups -- and reported on extensively in sections of the Marathi press. In turn, this can be fuelled into a controversy with strong communal un
