Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance (Letter in Goan Daily,,OHeraldo)
I just hope you did not mean me because i did open it on the ferry warf at divar as it was very cold and chilly and a toilet is not in view but then im not a ghanti although i visit the ghats once a year. Do come to bastora and count the number of ghanti shudd goans with ration cards it does make me feel an unshudd goan cheers jeff
[Goanet] Goanet: Goan Tolerance
FN, I wont be wrong If I say that the re-zipping Goanetter was FN himself :-) What you do or did under the cover of darkness or under the tree or in the bushes in a village (where there are no toilets around) was quite understandable and was never been a big issue. But JoeGoaUk mainly talks about the city life through his photos of the those people (not necessarily ghantis) who are peeing out in the open right on the promenade etc such as this one (taken yesterday) http://www.flickr.com/photos/dirtypanjim4/4751795015/ Quote: Goan Tolerance I was returning with a Goanetter from Chorao island last evening, and we were waiting for the ferry to take us over to the Pomburpa end. Thank goodness JoeGoaUk or Rajan Parrikar isn't around, the Goanetter said, as he re-zipped his fly! It took me a second or two to comprehend what the heck he was talking about. By then the ferry had arrived, so we hurriedly got ready for the ride. FN joego...@yahoo.co.uk for Goa NRI related info... http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/GOAN-NRI/ For Goan Video Clips http://youtube.com/joeukgoa In Goa, Dial 1 0 8 For Hospital, Police, Fire etc
Re: [Goanet] Goanet: Goan Tolerance
JoeGoaUk: After receiving your mail below, I have tried talking to myself, and making sure to keep a time-lag in my understanding of what I tell myself. But I found it to be very boring and predictable. So I'll stop it for now :-) Glad that you've made an exception for me and my boorish Goanetter friend (who is he, btw, any guesses?) As for those guys peeing in the towns, is it possible they too come from villages, and, er, behave like villagers? Secondly, would you know of any reason for the resistance (by some) to use the Sulabh toilets? The charge of Re1/Rs2 is not very steep for most of us anyway. And while most Sulabhs are maintained in a passable way (much better than the old government-run, unmanned toilets, but still a long way to go), there are a few luxury Sulabhs too. Some months back (not sure now), the one at the ferry crossing near the Mandovi was almost clean-enough to sleep it. But I think it cost Rs 5 instead of the usual lower rate. FN Frederick Noronha +91-9822122436 +91-832-2409490 On 2 July 2010 23:39, JoeGoaUk joego...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: FN, I wont be wrong If I say that the re-zipping Goanetter was FN himself :-) What you do or did under the cover of darkness or under the tree or in the bushes in a village (where there are no toilets around) was quite understandable and was never been a big issue. But JoeGoaUk mainly talks about the city life through his photos of the those people (not necessarily ghantis) who are peeing out in the open right on the promenade etc such as this one (taken yesterday) http://www.flickr.com/photos/dirtypanjim4/4751795015/ Quote: Goan Tolerance I was returning with a Goanetter from Chorao island last evening, and we were waiting for the ferry to take us over to the Pomburpa end. Thank goodness JoeGoaUk or Rajan Parrikar isn't around, the Goanetter said, as he re-zipped his fly! It took me a second or two to comprehend what the heck he was talking about. By then the ferry had arrived, so we hurriedly got ready for the ride. FN
[Goanet] Goan tolerance
I compliment Inacio D'Silva on his Beautifully expressed letter in Goanet dated 29th June. Already the ecology, groundwater, fauna and flora are messed up, hills are concreted, culture is commercialised (where is the true spirit of the Carnival, St. John's feast that we knew in those days of yore). Actually I see nothing left unless we act fast.
Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance
The answer is peroxide my friend. Instead of being bhailes, one instantly changes to 'inside', like instant coffee. Wish I could post my picture with my blond curly hair.. Errr.don't forget the eyebrowsperoxide them that is if not,you may look like you walked off a Charlie Chaplin sets. Accents...ah yes. I thought you would ask. Try not to say too mucha lot of 'yeahs', talk a little loud and mix accents, so you confuse and hopefully, blend. Should you see another bhaile approach, someone who looks like they got off the boat, turn thy nose up. Peroxide costs money you know. Ah, don't forget when you mention Mississauga, make it sound likesome exotic godforsaken place in Afrika. Gotta go, my hair looks a little.hairdresser appointment ( at least, they know my true colors)! On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 12:02 AM, Vasant Baliga vabal...@yahoo.com wrote: This article in Time Magazine shows how some Americans feel about immigration.There is a large Goan Community in New Jersey-and I wonder how Canadians would feel about the old and new Mississauga!Are the Goans Bhailes in the US and Canada?Food for thought!! Regards Vasant MY OWN PRIVATE INDIA http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1999416,00.html By Joel Stein I am very much in favor of immigration everywhere in the U.S. except Edison, N.J. The mostly white suburban town I left when I graduated from high school in 1989 — the town that was called Menlo Park when Thomas Alva Edison set up shop there and was later renamed in his honor — has become home to one of the biggest Indian communities in the U.S., as familiar to people in India as how to instruct stupid Americans to reboot their Internet routers. My town is totally unfamiliar to me. The Pizza Hut where my busboy friends stole pies for our drunken parties is now an Indian sweets shop with a completely inappropriate roof. The AP I shoplifted from is now an Indian grocery. The multiplex where we snuck into R-rated movies now shows only Bollywood films and serves samosas. The Italian restaurant that my friends stole cash from as waiters is now Moghul, one of the most famous Indian restaurants in the country. There is an entire generation of white children in Edison who have nowhere to learn crime. (See pictures of Thomas Edison's Menlo Park.) I never knew how a bunch of people half a world away chose a random town in New Jersey to populate. Were they from some Indian state that got made fun of by all the other Indian states and didn't want to give up that feeling? Are the malls in India that bad? Did we accidentally keep numbering our parkway exits all the way to Mumbai?
[Goanet] Goan Tolerance
JC has put it very well- I believe that as long as .. Panchayats (Oh those fine local govt entities) and the Sir Paunches are lured by the 33 pieces of silver, and as long as there are corrupt lawyers (e.g. the ones who dump their plaintiff clients and go with the other party AFTER contracting with the plaintiffs) the land of Goa will be littered with concrete. Goa is now facing a food security problem,due to urban sprawl-Who is responsible for this Bhaile mess? Tara Patel says it all in her piece in the Goan Observer-It is Goenkars who sell their land and elect the crooks who rule Goa! http://goanobserver.com/goa-heading-towards-‘zero-food-security’.html Goa heading towards ‘zero food security’! By Tara Patel ASK ANYONE - if anyone cares! The fact remains that despite all the public money being poured into subsidising to promote agriculture and horticulture in Goa, this primary and vital food security segment continues to be in the doldrums. And to think that Goa at the time of Liberation was still a lush paddy green landscape, self-sufficient in the basics of food…the staple xitt-coddi i.e. fish curry and rice, with coconuts, local vegetables and fruit thrown in. You will say post-Liberation a lot of bhaile came pouring into Goa’s “garden of paradise” and to this day they’re buying up fallow agricultural land to build palatial bungalows and residential condominiums for all the richie riche of the world keen on buying one or yet another piece of paradise (never mind if it’s a dying piece of paradise)! Yes, but who’s selling? Niz Goenkars and a bunch of politicians anxious to make their pile for the next seven generations so that if they’re out of power tomorrow it will not matter (count the politicians in the real estate brokerage business in Goa!).
[Goanet] Goan tolerance
I was returning with a Goanetter from Chorao island last evening, and we were waiting for the ferry to take us over to the Pomburpa end. Thank goodness JoeGoaUk or Rajan Parrikar isn't around, the Goanetter said, as he re-zipped his fly! It took me a second or two to comprehend what the heck he was talking about. By then the ferry had arrived, so we hurriedly got ready for the ride. FN --- What is this world coming to? Just because JoeGoaUK is not around to capture a goanetter, el flagrante delicto, does it mean another Goanetter, Frederick Noronha, has to encourage this Goanetter to leave his imprint on the many sediments that make up the Mandovi river? Could Frederick not have used his endless lectures on environmental preservation to convince this man that such an act will ultimately cause more damage to the ecological balance of Goan soil, than all the tourism and tourism related lager released on casino-ferry boats put together? Let me guess? It's just blond lager that Frederick objects to vociferously. Guinsess is fine with our man Frederick :-) Best, selma
Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance (Letter in Goan Daily OHeraldo)
On 29 June 2010 08:20, J. Colaco jc cola...@gmail.com wrote: BTW: The last day to legally prevent uninhibited migration into Goa was Dec 19, 1961 Was there no large-scale migration into Goa before Dec 19, 1961? Where did all the Goans come from then? And were all our rulers before then Goan too? FN PS: I know you will turn around to say the in-migration then wasn't so proportionately large. But please do a fact-check on your history, who is labelled an insider and who an outsider.
Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance (Letter in Goan Daily OHeraldo)
On 29 June 2010 04:57, Frederick Noronha fredericknoro...@gmail.com wrote: Was there no large-scale migration into Goa before Dec 19, 1961? did all the Goans come from then? And were all our rulers before then Goan too? FN == Response: 1: While what FN says is correct, his statement refers to a tangential point I was not making. 2: I invite FN to concentrate on the phrase 'legally prevent uninhibited migration'.as in immigration control, which, I submit once again to Arwin, cannot be applied post 1961. 3: I will further add here that, even to (say) the UK and USA, there has large scale migration. But those countries have had and still do have the capability to 'legally prevent uninhibited migration'. jc Earlier I had stated this: BTW: The last day to legally prevent uninhibited migration into Goa was Dec 19, 1961
Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance (Letter in Goan Daily OHeraldo)
Lets put ur logic to all other Indian States and Other Indian Countries. How are Indian States divided today? Why have borders/identities and lets be a jolly good cocktail? Let everyone do it and perhaps I could agree!! Message: 5 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 14:27:12 +0530 From: Frederick Noronha fredericknoro...@gmail.com To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@lists.goanet.org Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance (Letter in Goan Daily OHeraldo) Message-ID: aanlktimgpghzgkdxjihwvjmw0ettq0kl-sk_v-9ip...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 29 June 2010 08:20, J. Colaco jc cola...@gmail.com wrote: BTW: The last day to legally prevent uninhibited migration into Goa was Dec 19, 1961 Was there no large-scale migration into Goa before Dec 19, 1961? Where did all the Goans come from then? And were all our rulers before then Goan too? FN PS: I know you will turn around to say the in-migration then wasn't so proportionately large. But please do a fact-check on your history, who is labelled an insider and who an outsider.
Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance (Letter in Goan Daily OHeraldo)
Arwin, Are you suggesting that the borders of other states are closed to Goans going and settling there? We already have what you call a jolly good cocktail... and Goans have been benefitting from this for some generations now. FN On 29 June 2010 17:33, Arwin Mesquita arwinmesqu...@gmail.com wrote: Lets put ur logic to all other Indian States and Other Indian Countries. How are Indian States divided today? Why have borders/identities and lets be a jolly good cocktail? Let everyone do it and perhaps I could agree!!
Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance (Letter in Goan Daily OHeraldo)
I agree with Arwin Mesquita on the subject he has written. With regards to us Goans accepting ourselves as part of the Indian Union, we already have. But has India accepted that Goans are part of what collectively defines India? What is India? Is it not a collection of states each with their unique language culture? Together this becomes India. And if Goans want to preserve a part of what defines India, then definitely they should be are well within their rights. With regards to influx of people, it's not about Goan or Indian here. Goa doesn't have sufficient residential land. It's as simple as that. To be able to settle in Goa, rules are blatantly violated resulting in hills being cut, farms being filled etc. If this is acceptable nobody minds an ecological disaster, then fine, we can welcome destruction of the environment. Another fact is more the people more the strain on the civic services. Clean drinking water, proper garbage disposal, power, law enforcement etc, need to keep with the sudden dramatic increase in population. I mean it's not just the rights of the people here. What about the rights of the environment? We accused the colonial powers of exploiting our resources. Are we doing any better? How do we explain in a country thats mostly vegetarian, Tigers are on the brink of extinction? It's nothing but the two predators (human tiger) competing for territory. One needs more land to reside thus one of them has to give we know where that's going. So once the Indian tiger, a symbol of India, disappears, can we blame the colonial powers? I think we should look at Arwin's article understand it thoroughly. Finally, when you analyze it, the focal point really comes down to effective proper planning with a vision for the future. How does the Government of Goa India see Goa 5, 10, 20 years down the line? An overpopulated polluted state with crumbling infrastructure or a state with proper management where it's citizens enjoy healthy environment are proud that their customs traditions are preserved? Planning ( especially for the future) is severely lacking in India which leaves inhabitants frustrated this frustration gets manifested in ways similar to the Marathi agitation against outsiders. Unfortunately, media people are quick to cry react with Traitor or Disloyal to India. I guess this is much easier then solving the root cause of the issue. I mean, hey, why bother providing a solution, just accuse a whole section of people (if they complain) that they don't love India they'll feel bad fall back in line. Indians are extremely emotional anyways. Really easy to keep unhappy people in line, isn't it? In history (Europe), when people were unhappy revolutions occurred. Here, not so I guess. And as I've mentioned in the beginning, it is the parts (states) that make the whole (India). You take away one India ceases to exist. How India would prosper if it ensures that all parts effectively come together in a proper synergy, without strain or preferential treatment on few individual parts. Of course, if the constitution states that conformance of only North Indian or any other particular non-Goan culture is what truly defines India, then in that case, I'm sorry to say that India shouldn't exist. I am proud of my Goan identity culture which contributes to define India India's uniqueness among nations.
[Goanet] Goan Tolerance
This article in Time Magazine shows how some Americans feel about immigration.There is a large Goan Community in New Jersey-and I wonder how Canadians would feel about the old and new Mississauga!Are the Goans Bhailes in the US and Canada?Food for thought!! Regards Vasant MY OWN PRIVATE INDIA http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1999416,00.html By Joel Stein I am very much in favor of immigration everywhere in the U.S. except Edison, N.J. The mostly white suburban town I left when I graduated from high school in 1989 — the town that was called Menlo Park when Thomas Alva Edison set up shop there and was later renamed in his honor — has become home to one of the biggest Indian communities in the U.S., as familiar to people in India as how to instruct stupid Americans to reboot their Internet routers. My town is totally unfamiliar to me. The Pizza Hut where my busboy friends stole pies for our drunken parties is now an Indian sweets shop with a completely inappropriate roof. The AP I shoplifted from is now an Indian grocery. The multiplex where we snuck into R-rated movies now shows only Bollywood films and serves samosas. The Italian restaurant that my friends stole cash from as waiters is now Moghul, one of the most famous Indian restaurants in the country. There is an entire generation of white children in Edison who have nowhere to learn crime. (See pictures of Thomas Edison's Menlo Park.) I never knew how a bunch of people half a world away chose a random town in New Jersey to populate. Were they from some Indian state that got made fun of by all the other Indian states and didn't want to give up that feeling? Are the malls in India that bad? Did we accidentally keep numbering our parkway exits all the way to Mumbai?
[Goanet] Goan Tolerance (Letter in Goan Daily OHeraldo)
*http://www.oheraldo.in/newscategory/Letters/13* *Goan Tolerance Arwin Mesquita, Abu Dhabi *There is currently a lot of criticism about the ‘tolerance’ of Goans, as they are in increasing numbers speaking out against the fast deterioration of Goan culture and identity with the rapid influx of migrants and the fast changing demographics. I do appreciate that tolerance is the need of the hour to make the world a better place, but let us put tolerance into a correct perspective for Goa. Nobody can dispute the enormous tolerance and hospitality exhibited by Goans, simply from the fact that around 40 per cent of the population of Goa is non-Goan. I would like for the critics to compare this with the demographics of other states. If they keep silent, it is because they don’t face the same crisis. As Goans, we should continue to be tolerant, respectful and hospitable to all people. But this does not mean it is wrong for us to put in safeguards right now to reverse the erosion of Goan identity and protect Goan interests. In the UAE, where I temporarily reside, the vast majority are non-nationals. Many are allowed to even buy land, but restrictively. This country in its wisdom has put in fair safeguards to ensure that the UAE will always remain with its own people. We are all Indians, but India is made up of so many cultures and identities, each of which has a right to be preserved and protected. Even European governments today realise that there is a logic in migrant control, and are converting Europe into a sort of fortress, with increasingly tighter immigration policies. Those being accepted are made to undergo compulsory integration into the local population. In the homes that we live in, we can and should be very tolerant and hospitable to our guests, or any person for that matter. But does this mean that we should give away our homes to them? Surely, nobody will dispute this! -- Please post your comments on my Blog: http://goanidentity.blogspot.com/ Please also see below: 1. Benaulim Village Action Committee: http://www.bvacbenaulim.blogspot.com/ 2. Rape of Goa : http://www.parrikar.com/blog/the-rape-of-goa/ 3. MAND - an adivasi-rights resource centre : http://mandgoa.blogspot.com/ 4. EVERY GOAN SHOULD SEE THIS VIDEO: http://infochangeindia.org/Infochange-documentary.html 5. For the Love of Konkani: http://www.radiogoa.net/ 6. Goa's Identity Movement website: http://www.goamag.net/gim 7. Goa's Identity Movement group on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com//#/group.php?gid=193497031686 8. Official Government Site NRI Office (GOA): http://www.globalgoans.org.in/
Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance (Letter in Goan Daily OHeraldo)
Arwin Mesquita arwinmesqu...@gmail.com wrote: We are all Indians, but India is made up of so many cultures and identities, each of which has a right to be preserved and protected. Even European governments today realise that there is a logic in migrant control, and are converting Europe into a sort of fortress, with increasingly tighter immigration policies. Those being accepted are made to undergo compulsory integration into the local population == COMMENT: It is time for Goans to (perhaps, finally) accept that Goa is firmly a part of the Indian Union. Nothing will ever change that. As of December 1961, Goa and Goans are governed as per the Indian Constitution. Until Arwin Mesquita manages to (single or two-handedly) amend the constitution, there is NOTHING he or anyone else can do about the influx of Indian citizens from other parts of India into Goa. No point telling us about Kashmir. At the point of accession, the Kashmiris organised their demands. No such event took place with the freedom fighters of Goa. No point referring to the tighter immigration controls brought about by European countries. First of all, Goa is not a country. It is a State within the Indian Union. Immigration control is not a State responsibility in India. Even in Europe, citizens of the first set of member-states have every right to enter any country within the EU to look for a job.and IF they have funds, to buy a house. Even Konkani-only speaking Goans with Portuguese nationality can do that. In fact, any body from anywhere in the world (who does not have a known criminal record) can buy a house (say) in the UK or Eire (at least). All you need is clean funds. So, I say to Arwin: Get used to the facts of life. Nobody can legally prevent any Indian citizen from migrating to Goa. Not even your new pal, Shri Winston. BTW: The last day to legally prevent uninhibited migration into Goa was Dec 19, 1961 jc
Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance
--- On Tue, 8/12/08, Arwin Mesquita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can you put your Anti-Goan identity views on the Goan newspapers; lets see what Goans in Goa have to say about it? I am sure you have the addresses. Arwin, I have copiously expressed my views on Goanet about our many Goan identities and the need to promote the wholesome aspects our culture among Goan Indians and non-Goan Indians. I have also spoken out against your misguided notion of insulating Goa from the rest of the world by inventing a non-existent singular Goan identity. I find Goanet a more convenient medium for public expression. Newspapers are slow. BTW, I am still waiting for you to provide me with a definition of your unique Goan identity. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance
To Goanet - Santosh Helekar writes to a sensible Arwin Mesquita: I have copiously expressed my views on Goanet about our many Goan identities... No kidding. What insights into the realm of the blindingly obvious are you going to copiously reveal next? BTW, I am still waiting for you to provide me with a definition of your unique Goan identity. I'm afraid you will have to wait until the unique Goan cows come home after copiously depositing their their 'views' at the base of electric poles. For the rest of you Niz Goenkars, there is no wait. See - http://www.parrikar.org/misc/Insiders-Outsiders.pdf Warm regards, r
Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance
--- On Wed, 8/13/08, Rajan P. Parrikar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm afraid you will have to wait until the unique Goan cows come home after copiously depositing their their 'views' at the base of electric poles. I guess this is an admission that there is no unique singular Goan identity. This is further clear from the following quote from http://www.parrikar.org/misc/Insiders-Outsiders.pdf; Consider the Goan Identity as a starting point. We may zoom down into this parent Identity and within it locate islets of constituent Identities threaded to it: the Goan Hindu Identity, the Goan Catholic Identity, and so on. We further break down the Goan Hindu Identity into, say, the Bamon Identity, the Daivadnyas, the Gomant Maratha Samaj Identity, etc. You can slice it in directions other than caste or religion. For instance, within the Goan Identity you could tease out the Sashtikaar Identity, the Bardezkaar Identity, etc. Still more Identities may be extracted from these sub-Identities. ...Rajan Parrikar So when he zooms the camera on Arwin's identity, Rajan's identity and Romlo's identity, he finds that they are all very different. The real question is which of these casteist identities Arwin and Rajan want to preserve. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance
To Goanet - Santosh Helekar wrote: I guess this is an admission that there is no unique singular Goan identity. You are still guessing about this? Reminds me of what Einstein once said of a scientist: The man can calculate but he can't think. So when he zooms the camera on Arwin's identity, Rajan's identity and Romlo's identity, he finds that they are all very different. Hallelujah! Does this mean you have stopped guessing? Will you take your test now or do you need more time to prepare? Santosh Helekar is here on Goanet and not on BihariNet or AndhraNet or BongNet or TamilNet or KannadaNet for no other reason other than he identifies himself with Goans and the Goan milieu. On all those other *Nets he would be quickly laughed out of town as an outsider. So while he rambles on about how there is no unique Goan Identity, he simultaneously seeks comfort here in the embrace and warmth of the very Identity he professes doesn't exist uniquely, namely the Goan Identity. Warm regards, r
Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance
By its very nature, tolerance is only possible as individual act that you or I can bestow. You cannot force tolerance upon others to accept as a way of life, even for one second, those who prefer not to accept this rule are not necessary intolerant either. Tolerance can be catching.. much like a cold or fever, but not create the heat or the other extreme, cold. By example you can gain much by tolerating certain (non-violent, non-malevolent) acts. Somewhere in-between I suppose, is tolerance. I learned a bit of it from being a husband a father, I had none of it as a child or a friend... Shame really, I may have well found a way to accept EVERYTHING that is written by some posters, but choose not to, oh well its cause I am part of the human condition. It would be nice thought if we had mentors, gurus at an earlier age.. in life's ways.. John Monteiro. Regards John Monteiro
Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 00:41:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Rajan P. Parrikar [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.parrikar.org/misc/Insiders-Outsiders.pdf The following are excerpts from Insiders and Outsiders By Rajan P. Parrikar Published on Goanet on Friday, Dec 21, 2007 Consider the Goan Identity as a starting point. We may zoom down into this parent Identity and within it locate islets of constituent Identities threaded to it: the Goan Hindu Identity, the Goan Catholic Identity, and so on. We further break down the Goan Hindu Identity into, say, the Bamon Identity, the Daivadnyas, the Gomant Maratha Samaj Identity, etc. You can slice it in directions other than caste or religion. For instance, within the Goan Identity you could tease out the Sashtikaar Identity, the Bardezkaar Identity, etc. Still more Identities may be extracted from these sub-Identities. Mario observes: Rajan, Even after re-defining ancestry as identity and zooming in and out as convenient to the point of your essay, you have also eloquently made the point, perhaps unintentionally, that there is no one Goan identity, and you have done so better than anyone else:-)) While, as a Capitalist, I heartily endorse the final conclusion of your essay, even while I may disagree with how you got there, surely you know from living in the USA that it is Capitalism that considers all men and women to be created equal, just some more equal than others [:-))] whereas Marxists distinguish between the elite who know what's good for everyone else better than they do, and everyone else:-)) In writing your essay, you have also passionately continued the well-known Indian tradition of doggedly dividing themselves into sub-groups and building often impenetrable walls between each other with your use of ancestry and sub-ancestries to defend your notion of who is an Insider and who is an Outsider. Take my identity as an example. I was born and grew up in Madhya Pradesh as essentially a Catholic Bhayya, to parents of Goan ancestry. I am now an American of Indian-Goan ancestry, with my Bhayya youth somewhere in my subconscious. In some sense I am a congenital Outsider. Some considered me an Outsider in MP. Others, including some virulent Hindu-supremacists who knew me well, did not, probably because my inclusive attitude and all-around achievements as a student-athlete and patriot completely undermined their notions of supremacy. Some may consider me an Outsider in Goa, others may not. Believe me, I can play both roles equally well now that I'm a part-time Ponjekar:-)) As someone who grew up in one democracy and is now a citizen of two democracies, do I care? Of course not. There is one salient fact that seems to supercede these often jejune concerns of Insider, Outsider, Goan, non-Goan. Let's call it R-E-A-L-I-T-Y based on tangible, often brutal, facts. The opposite of this is E-M-O-T-I-O-N and S-E-N-T-I-M-E-N-T based on hopes and dreams and fantasies. The reality is that, as King Canute proved to skeptics centuries ago, there are certain things one cannot stop. He could not stop the tide from coming in, just as Goans cannot stop other Indians from coming in either, rant and rave as they might. Years ago we couldn't stop European colonialism. Later the colonialists couldn't stop us. Now Goans cannot stop non-Goans. Deal with it. The trick in coping with all the angst is an Americanism you must be familiar with, When life hands you lemons, don't suck them, make lemonade! Goans, especially vociferous and opinionated leaders like yourself, need to differentiate between the Outsiders like the Celinas, Katrinas, Twinkles, and others less well known, who come in and enhance Goa, and those whom you have spent a good deal of time and money railing against and opposing, those who want to deface Goa for their own benefit. Paradoxically, the latter group includes several Insiders, which makes kheema out of the notion that this issue can be simplified to a tussle between Insiders and Outsiders, or Goans and non-Goans.
Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance
--- On Wed, 8/13/08, Rajan P. Parrikar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So while he rambles on about how there is no unique Goan Identity, he simultaneously seeks comfort here in the embrace and warmth of the very Identity he professes doesn't exist uniquely, namely the Goan Identity. Ignoring the inconsequential emotional remarks in the rest of Rajan's latest post, in the above excerpt, he appears to be confused about the meaning of the words unique and identity! It should be obvious to anybody that there is nothing unique about being part of a mailing list whose members have some association with your place of birth, and there is nothing unique about being born in any place on earth. We also know that the 10,000 or so members of Goanet have tens, if not hundreds, of different identities. Now, as for what he says below, we know that no Kannadiga, Bihari, Andhra or Tamilian has ever been laughed out of town on Goanet, despite being abused by a few Goans like Rajan who happen to believe that they are unique. Cheers, Santosh P.S. I ask Rajan to tell me what similarities (in their many identities) does he see between him and Arwin when he zooms his camera on them, and why is he more different from Vidyadhar than from Arwin. --- On Wed, 8/13/08, Rajan P. Parrikar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Santosh Helekar is here on Goanet and not on BihariNet or AndhraNet or BongNet or TamilNet or KannadaNet for no other reason other than he identifies himself with Goans and the Goan milieu. On all those other *Nets he would be quickly laughed out of town as an outsider.
[Goanet] Goan Tolerance.
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 23:08:24 +0400 From: Arwin Mesquita [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is currently a lot of talk about the tolerance of Goans, particularly because Goans are in increasing numbers, starting to speak out against the fast deterioration of Goan Culture Identity; mainly with the rapid influx of Non-Goans/Migrants and hence the fast changing demographics. Mario asks: I don't see increasing numbers - just a small handful of Goans, dreaming of days gone by. The increasing numbers more correctly describe the new-Goans who have discovered the beauty and charm of Goa. There are, in fact, several Goan Identities, each in the eye of its beholders, some of which, like the caste system, continue the damage they have done for centuries and need to be abolished by being shunned in day-to-day decisionmaking. Arwin wrote: In the UAE, where I temporarily reside for example, the vast majority is non-nationals and many are allowed to even buy land restrictively, but this country in its wisdom has put in fair safeguards to ensure that the UAE will always remain with its own people. Mario observes: The UAE is a tribal society just barely emerging into the civilized world, not some paragon of national virtue and tolerance that Goans should follow. Besides, the UAE is a federation of several small autocratic sheikdoms, whereas Goa is a part of highly civilized democratic republic and any Indian can choose to live there. Arwin still doesn't seem to see the difference. Arwin wrote: To drive home my point, say for instance in the homes that we live in, we can be very tolerant hospitable to our guests or any person for that matter, but does this mean that we should give away our homes to the said people? Surely nobody will agree to this, not even the critics. Mario observes: You have no point, Arwin. A private home is not a state within a country. Non-Indians who choose to live in Goa do not need the permission or tolerance or hospitality of local Goans, though thankfully, most Goans are tolerant and hospitable.
Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance
Good to see this thoughtful opposition to the continuing incitement of hatred against non-Goan Indians in all its forms. The solution to Goa's problems is law-abiding Goans. There should be a grass roots campaign to promote honesty in public affairs, and respect for the law, for each other, and for our heritage, rather than whine and complain day in and day out, and blame others for our problems. Cheers, Santosh --- On Tue, 8/12/08, Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't see increasing numbers - just a small handful of Goans, dreaming of days gone by. The increasing numbers more correctly describe the new-Goans who have discovered the beauty and charm of Goa. There are, in fact, several Goan Identities, each in the eye of its beholders, some of which, like the caste system, continue the damage they have done for centuries and need to be abolished by being shunned in day-to-day decisionmaking.
[Goanet] Goan Tolerance.
There is currently a lot of talk about the tolerance of Goans, particularly because Goans are in increasing numbers, starting to speak out against the fast deterioration of Goan Culture Identity; mainly with the rapid influx of Non-Goans/Migrants and hence the fast changing demographics. While I full appreciate that Tolerance is the need of the hour to make the world a better place, I want to put tolerance into a correct perspective for Goa. Nobody today can dispute the enormous tolerance hospitality exhibited by Goans in Goa, simply with the fact that 40% of the population of Goa is Non-Goans; I would like for the critics to compare this, with the demographics of other states in India. We, Goans should continue to be Tolerant Hospitable to all other people, but this does not mean it is wrong for us Goans to put in safeguards now, to reverse the erosion of Goan Identity protect Goan interests. In the UAE, where I temporarily reside for example, the vast majority is non-nationals and many are allowed to even buy land restrictively, but this country in its wisdom has put in fair safeguards to ensure that the UAE will always remain with its own people. Yes we are Indians, but India is made up of some many cultures identities; each of which has a RIGHT to be preserved/protected. To drive home my point, say for instance in the homes that we live in, we can be very tolerant hospitable to our guests or any person for that matter, but does this mean that we should give away our homes to the said people? Surely nobody will agree to this, not even the critics. * * *Arwin Mesquita.* -- Please post your comments on my Blog: http://goanidentity.blogspot.com/
Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance
Mr Arwin Mesquita said : # There is currently a lot of talk about the tolerance of Goans, particularly because Goans are in increasing numbers, starting to speak out against the fast deterioration of Goan Culture Identity; mainly with the rapid influx of Non-Goans/Migrants and hence the fast changing demographics. While I full appreciate that Tolerance is the need of the hour to make the world a better place, I want to put tolerance into a correct perspective for Goa. Nobody today can dispute the enormous tolerance hospitality exhibited by Goans in Goa, simply with the fact that 40% of Goa's population is Non-Goans; I would like for the critics to compare this, with the demographics of other Indian states.# Yes we are Indians, but India is made up of some many cultures identities; each of which has a RIGHT to be preserved/protected.# To drive home my point, say for instance in the homes that we live in, we can be very tolerant hospitable to our guests or any person for that matter, but does this mean that we should give away our homes to the said people? Surely nobody will agree to this, not even the critics. Anand Virgincar's comments ( and for once focussing on the other Parrikar ) : I submit that Bab Arwin ( who I get the impression is a soft hearted chap like me ) and many others , including in the Goan newspaper / audiovisual media can say today what is stated above is because Dr Rajan Parrikar had the courage to go against the politically correct snobbishness and bring this delicate and difficult issue up for discussion in the first place. There have been a flurry of postings recently slamming Rajan for his style of dialogue and his preference for strong language. I submit that if softies like Arwin or me had broached the subject rather than Rajan , we would have been swatted aside like flies by the same old same old same old same old humanitarian armchair keyboard sermonistas and the hearsay finding report fame communal hatred harmonistas.not to mention the freelancers with their one point agenda's to help these Congress corrupticians stay in power. I am incapable of employing Rajan's inimitable robust style. But this is the only way to silence the same old proponents and wake up the sushegaad Goenkars. My sincere advice to you , Rajan , is continue going the way you have done over the last year or so. But also, ignore the ignoraumuses there is much work to be done and you cannot afford to waste your time arguing with these time wasters. And as you have shown with the Panjim PIL , I know you will pursue your noble goals using entirely legal means. Those who cannot see the core message in your literary efforts and accuse you of xenophobia and sundry characteristics , have no idea of the velvet hand you wield behind the iron glove. If they cannot read between the lines, it is their problem , not yours. There is a limit to Goan toleranceand you have warned us in the nick of time that this limit is very near , if not already here. Whether the humanitarians wish to help us find a sensible solution or continue to engage in their sermonisation ( while Goa builds up to boiling point ) is their problem, not yours. warm and sincere regards, anand _ The next generation of Windows Live is here http://www.windowslive.co.uk/get-live
[Goanet] Goan Tolerance
There is currently a lot of talk about the tolerance of Goans, particularly because Goans are in increasing numbers, starting to speak out against the fast deterioration of Goan Culture Identity; mainly with the rapid influx of Non-Goans/Migrants and hence the fast changing demographics. While I full appreciate that Tolerance is the need of the hour to make the world a better place, I want to put tolerance into a correct perspective for Goa. Nobody today can dispute the enormous tolerance hospitality exhibited by Goans in Goa, simply with the fact that 40% of Goa's population is Non-Goans; I would like for the critics to compare this, with the demographics of other Indian states. We, Goans should continue to be Tolerant Hospitable to all other people, but this does not mean it is wrong for us to put in safeguards now, to reverse the erosion of Goan Identity protect Goan interests. In the UAE, where I temporarily reside for example, the vast majority is non-nationals and many are allowed to even buy land restrictively, but this country in its wisdom has put in fair safeguards to ensure that the UAE will always remain with its own people. Yes we are Indians, but India is made up of some many cultures identities; each of which has a RIGHT to be preserved/protected. To drive home my point, say for instance in the homes that we live in, we can be very tolerant hospitable to our guests or any person for that matter, but does this mean that we should give away our homes to the said people? Surely nobody will agree to this, not even the critics. * * *Arwin Mesquita, Abu Dhabi *
