Re: [Goanet] India: hostage to a demented culture

[anil desai]

Dear Goanetters,

Selma Cardoso wrote:?
Prejudice on this forum is determined entirely by the surname one writes
under.
What is "prejudice and/or prejudgment" under a Catholic Portuguese surname
is a
"lot of truth" under an Indian Hindu name.?

My response:


Selma has made an important point in her post.
I had written about this to Santosh Helekar sometime back and he was
protesting that Selma and many folk who intermittently write anti-hindu
rubbish on Goanet are all secular. Really?
The message for the likes of Santosh is clear: If you wish to be feted as a
Secular person on Goanet, you need to do Hindu bashing on a regular basis.
You should refrain from writing anything remotely critical of Catholic
church or catholics. It helps if you show some sympathy for muslims but not
at the expense of catholics.
Just occasional support for Hussain or occasional ignorant missives against
Hindus, Hinduism or Hindu priests will not do.

One of the crimes was, Mario, was,  writing repeatedly on goanet about his
early days in the midst of these terrible right wing Hindu folk. Where is he
now?

Anil Desai

Re: [Goanet] India: Hostage to a Demented Culture

[Santosh Helekar]

It looks like Selma here rests her cases entirely on her own imagination and 
self-centered petulance. All it takes for her to accuse me of prejudice is a 
disagreement with her own precious self. The Catholic person here is herself. 
The Portuguese surname is her own. The fact that the substance of Rajiv's post 
with which I agreed, and that of her own posts, with which I disagreed, does 
not matter to her. I suspect that it would also not matter to her that I know 
that Rajiv has a Catholic family and a wife with a Portuguese name. Heck, for 
all I know, he might even have converted to Christianity. But no matter what, 
she will find some other excuse around it to stick to her hyperbolic narrative. 
Why spoil another perfectly good opportunity for grandstanding?

Let us all forget for her sake that I have disagreed strongly with all of the 
very few self-identified Hindus with non-Portuguese surnames who post in this 
predominantly Catholic Goan forum, who do not even possess Catholic wives, such 
as Rajan Parrikar and Anil Desai, and her own Hindu defender in our argument, 
named Charudatt Prabhudesai.

Cheers,

Santosh




--- On Mon, 2/14/11, Carvalho  wrote:
>
> Santosh Helekar wrote:
> There is a lot of truth to what Rajiv has written below.
> 
>  
> And so I rest my case. 
>  
> Prejudice on this forum is determined entirely by the
> surname one writes under. 
> What is "prejudice and/or prejudgment" under a Catholic
> Portuguese surname is a 
> "lot of truth" under an Indian Hindu name. 
>  
> And in the end, that is what hurts the most. Because as a
> secular Catholic Goan, 
> I have always wanted to believe in the honesty, integrity
> and moral rectitude of 
> every human being as equal unless circumstances compel them
> otherwise.
>  
>  
> (this post is not a reflection on Rajiv's article which is
> excellent)
>  
> Best,
> Selma
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Goanet] India: Hostage to a Demented Culture

[Carvalho]

Santosh Helekar wrote:
There is a lot of truth to what Rajiv has written below.

 
And so I rest my case. 
 
Prejudice on this forum is determined entirely by the surname one writes under. 
What is "prejudice and/or prejudgment" under a Catholic Portuguese surname is a 
"lot of truth" under an Indian Hindu name. 
 
And in the end, that is what hurts the most. Because as a secular Catholic 
Goan, 
I have always wanted to believe in the honesty, integrity and moral rectitude 
of 
every human being as equal unless circumstances compel them otherwise.
 
 
(this post is not a reflection on Rajiv's article which is excellent)
 
Best,
Selma

Re: [Goanet] India: Hostage to a Demented Culture

[Gabriel de Figueiredo]

That "Me first" attitude seems to be growing in other parts of the world as 
well. 


My gut feeling is that we've become so engrossed in the rat-race to get to the 
unattainable "cheese" regardless of all else that we tend to forget that 
there's 
other people around. 


Why were the previous generations different? One reason may be because there 
were less people and less competition then. Another may be that the 2 world 
wars 
brought home to people the fragility of life, that life meant more than just 
living, that life meant sharing one's space and time with other people. 


Remember the slogan "Make love not war"? Today's car bumper stickers and 
wheel-covers appear to have aggressive messages rather than the lovey-dovey 
ones 
of the 60s and 70s. There appears to have been a total generational change in 
beahviour. 'Tis time to stop and smell the coffee and roses.

Gabriel.

- Original Message 
> From: Comma Consulting 
> To: Comma Consulting 
> Sent: Mon, 14 February, 2011 5:32:42 PM
> Subject: [Goanet] India: Hostage to a Demented Culture
> 
...
> India is in a state of dementia, largely because of the here-and-now culture
> that has taken hold since the turn of the millennium. It is hard to discern
> if there is anything learned from the past or if there are any plans for the
> future. And let's not blame just the government or politicians; the
> citizenry has a lot to answer for. 
> 
... 
> 
> Some years ago, I complained to a senior police official about the inability
> of his force to ensure the smooth flow of traffic. He looked me squarely in
> the eye and said, "I could have five million traffic cops on the streets but
> still you will not have order; the culture seems to breed chaos."
> 

Re: [Goanet] India: Hostage to a Demented Culture

[Santosh Helekar]

There is a lot of truth to what Rajiv has written below. The most important 
points are a lack of concern for others, poor understanding of our history and 
our past, misguided fascination with messianic figures and their anti-modern 
and post-modern views, lack of formation in the liberal arts, especially in 
Indian and western philosophy, and a morbid transformation of the entire 
education system into a vocational training program. To this I would add a 
complete lack of genuine pride and sense of responsibility towards the country.

But the most important thing according to me, which Rajiv failed to highlight 
is the fact that these problems do not afflict the poor uneducated masses 
living rural India. They afflict the so-called educated and westernized rich 
and middle class people, the ones who are most likely to consider themselves 
modern and look down upon their fellow Indians as being uncivilized. Indeed, 
most of them are utterly ignorant about India's history and prehistory (or in 
the case of Hindu and other religious zealots, want to revise it) and are 
enamored by the post-modern. 

But contrary to what Rajiv says there is very little that is wrong with 
parenting in India or by Indian parents compared to western countries. All one 
has to do to know this is look at what has happened to parenting in the U.S. 
and other western countries. The problem in India lies squarely in the domain 
of education at all levels and lack of personal space due to overcrowding of 
cities.

Cheers,

Santosh

--- On Mon, 2/14/11, Comma Consulting  wrote:
> 
> This article is from the blog res gestae
> (www.rajivndesai.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> you can reach the person managing the list at i...@comma.in
> 
> 
> Wednesday, February 9, 2011
> 
> 
> India:
>  tml>  Hostage to a Demented Culture
> 
> 
> My father, who is in his 90s, suffers from dementia. As
> such, he has no
> memory of the past and no idea of the future. He lives in
> the here and now. 
> 
> Just the other day, he fell and hurt his head. We took him
> to the emergency
> room at a local hospital, where the doctor examined him and
> declared him
> fit. 
> 
> The nurses cleaned the superficial cut on his head and
> released him. In the
> interim, I was heart broken to hear him utter the words,
> "internal sorrow,"
> not once but twice.
> 
> As I got to thinking about his condition, I couldn't help
> marvel how closely
> it parallels the state in which India finds itself: without
> any wisdom from
> the past, without any vision of the future; just the here
> and now. 
> 
> The words "internal sorrow" are often expressed and lived
> out in the myriads
> of petty conflicts and self-centered postures.
> 
> India is in a state of dementia, largely because of the
> here-and-now culture
> that has taken hold since the turn of the millennium. It is
> hard to discern
> if there is anything learned from the past or if there are
> any plans for the
> future. And let's not blame just the government or
> politicians; the
> citizenry has a lot to answer for. 
> 
> At a recent lunch in the Delhi Golf Club, I saw the
> unseemly spectacle of a
> child fooling around with the lawn umbrella, changing its
> incline in
> dangerous ways while his mother shoveled food into his
> mouth; or on a
> Spicejet flight a few weeks ago, where a mother, diverted
> her bawling son's
> attention by allowing him to play with the call button that
> summons a
> stewardess.
> 
> Both taught their sons to be oblivious of other people who
> might be
> disturbed and diverted their attention rather than
> discipline them.
> 
> Such children grow up to be inconsiderate adults, rich or
> poor, educated or
> illiterate, who have no restraints on public behavior and
> the need to be
> alive to the privacy and wellbeing of others. Thus, on an
> automated walkway
> at Delhi's dysfunctional Terminal 3, a couple, obviously
> well educated and
> affluent, walked abreast, not giving way, unmindful of me
> right behind them,
> in a hurry to get to the gate where my flight had been
> called. 
> 
> These child rearing practices have bred a uni-dimensional
> culture. Such
> cultures are demented in the sense that only a self-serving
> present matters;
> there is no learning from the past, no dimension of a
> better future other
> than instant gratification. Barbaric rituals and
> hypoglycemic hypocrisy are
> the hallmarks of such a culture.
> 
> In the grip of this demented culture, India is increasingly
> rich but less
> modern; increasingly powerful but less civilized. And
> government and
> politics and corruption and inequity have little to do with
> it.
> 
> Some years ago, I complained to a senior police official
> about the inability
> of his force to ensure the smooth flow of traffic. He
> looked me squarely in
> the eye and said, "I could have five million traffic cops
> on the streets b

[Goanet] India: Hostage to a Demented Culture

[Carvalho]

Rajiv Desai wrote:
What's more, parents fail to understand that "success" does not come just
being "well educated." The most important thing is for their children to be
"well bred." This means that their children should not just be knowledgeable
and bright but aware of their civic responsibilities: don't drive like
lunatics, don't litter, don't pee in public, give a thought for others and
be courteous.

---

 
I love reading Rajiv Desai's articles. He is one of the sanest voices I have 
read and I will never miss reading them when they appear. Please do write more 
frequently.
 
Thank God he lives in India, otherwise he would be accused of "looking down on 
Indians" or worse still he might have had to hear a long, moralising, 
sermonising lecture on the many vices of prejudgement and prejudice.
 
Then again perhaps those are only reserved for people with Portuguese sounding 
names. I wonder if hypocrisy too is a vice?
 
Best,
selma


 

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[Goanet] India: Hostage to a Demented Culture

[Comma Consulting]

This article is from the blog res gestae (www.rajivndesai.blogspot.com
 )


you can reach the person managing the list at i...@comma.in


Wednesday, February 9, 2011


India:
  Hostage to a Demented Culture

 

 

My father, who is in his 90s, suffers from dementia. As such, he has no
memory of the past and no idea of the future. He lives in the here and now. 

 

Just the other day, he fell and hurt his head. We took him to the emergency
room at a local hospital, where the doctor examined him and declared him
fit. 

 

The nurses cleaned the superficial cut on his head and released him. In the
interim, I was heart broken to hear him utter the words, "internal sorrow,"
not once but twice.

 

As I got to thinking about his condition, I couldn't help marvel how closely
it parallels the state in which India finds itself: without any wisdom from
the past, without any vision of the future; just the here and now. 

 

The words "internal sorrow" are often expressed and lived out in the myriads
of petty conflicts and self-centered postures.

 

India is in a state of dementia, largely because of the here-and-now culture
that has taken hold since the turn of the millennium. It is hard to discern
if there is anything learned from the past or if there are any plans for the
future. And let's not blame just the government or politicians; the
citizenry has a lot to answer for. 

 

At a recent lunch in the Delhi Golf Club, I saw the unseemly spectacle of a
child fooling around with the lawn umbrella, changing its incline in
dangerous ways while his mother shoveled food into his mouth; or on a
Spicejet flight a few weeks ago, where a mother, diverted her bawling son's
attention by allowing him to play with the call button that summons a
stewardess.

 

Both taught their sons to be oblivious of other people who might be
disturbed and diverted their attention rather than discipline them.

 

Such children grow up to be inconsiderate adults, rich or poor, educated or
illiterate, who have no restraints on public behavior and the need to be
alive to the privacy and wellbeing of others. Thus, on an automated walkway
at Delhi's dysfunctional Terminal 3, a couple, obviously well educated and
affluent, walked abreast, not giving way, unmindful of me right behind them,
in a hurry to get to the gate where my flight had been called. 

 

These child rearing practices have bred a uni-dimensional culture. Such
cultures are demented in the sense that only a self-serving present matters;
there is no learning from the past, no dimension of a better future other
than instant gratification. Barbaric rituals and hypoglycemic hypocrisy are
the hallmarks of such a culture.

 

In the grip of this demented culture, India is increasingly rich but less
modern; increasingly powerful but less civilized. And government and
politics and corruption and inequity have little to do with it.

 

Some years ago, I complained to a senior police official about the inability
of his force to ensure the smooth flow of traffic. He looked me squarely in
the eye and said, "I could have five million traffic cops on the streets but
still you will not have order; the culture seems to breed chaos."

 

More recent: another senior policeman told me last week the problem is that
despite clear-eyed laws, "we are told to encourage consensus even in the
face of flagrant violations." In other words, "adjust!"

 

Yet, civil society groups, the media, the business elite and the
intellectual set would have us believe that the system works but is
subverted by corrupt businessmen, politicians and bureaucrats. The arguments
are essentially messianic based on a belief that ascetic figures like Medha
Patkar and Anna Hazare; brand ambassadors like Sachin Tendulkar and Amitabh
Bachchan or soothsayers like Sri Sri Ravi Shankar and Satya Sai Baba could
restore values and bring order into public life

 

Messianic zeal in Indian public affairs is the legacy of Mohandas Gandhi,
who acquiesced in his lifetime to the title, "Mahatma." He was indeed a
great soul who challenged and ultimately defeated the British Raj.

 

Trouble is Gandhi had a lifelong problem with modernity. His book, Hind
Swaraj, was a diatribe against modern culture, which he equated with
Westernization. His retort on Western civilization, ("I think it would be a
good idea") remains in my mind the tipping point in his conversion from
political strategist to the Mahatma.

 

In that flippant remark, Gandhi dismissed the Renaissance and the
Enlightenment that brought modernity and economic prosperity to the West.
Gandhi's view of the West still has acolytes in 21st century India.

 

That is one reason why economic prosperity is there for all to see in India
today; but modernity, defined as civil values stemming from a concern for
others, is a long way away.

 

The key to India's modernization is ed