Re: [Goanet] Indian colonialism - FN
INTERACTIVE DISCUSSION: Alternative Publishing - Is it viable to traditional publishing? WHERE: Art Lounge - Sunaparanta, Near Lar de Estudantes, Altinho, Panaji WHEN: September 30, 2009 - 5:30pm http://www.facebook.com/n/?event.phpeid=146588805806mid=12a68daG1df3c3d3G2ac936fG7 The illustrious Frederick [FN] Noronha wrote in true GoaJourno style - 1: Ah ha! 2: I note that JC has neatly side-stepped the substantial issues of my post (my view of the reasons for 1961 looking less of a Liberation today) 3: Since lastwordism isn't one of my virtues, 4: Secondly, I didn't travel to Brazil. I only returned from there :-) 5: Thirdly, the decision of my folks to move to Brazil had zilch to do with Lusostalgia, 6: Over to you for the last word. Or last many words :-) FN Dear Frederick Noronha, For a guy who behaves like a tinpot Sala_Czar i.e. dictator of GoaNet, you deserve commendation for your brilliant pseudo-response. I will accept that last-wordism is not one of your virtues; though, your dictatorial behaviour on GoaNet appears to be one of your vices. I wonder where you got the impression that anyone had suggested that you (FN) had traveled to Brazil. Do you think that most Goans are as brilliant as the GoaJournos? Do not all and sundry know (already) that you were born in Brazil? I notice your Secondly and Thirdly - Where is your Firstly? Oh ...so 'solly' for ignoring your 'Analysis' . I hope you will read back your own first semi-mild flame in this conversation. The point I was making had zilch (if I can borrow the kaiser's word) to do with circa 1961 (Italian Brasilian Obstetrician's comments - which you obviously heard) or your long winded revisionist explanation of the WHYs. My point was quite specific even a non-legal mind or a GoaJourno could understand it ...if he would engage his brain before running his mouth (via the keyboard)...i.e. No reasonable individual BELIEVES the liberation propaganda.(in 2009) Liberation as quite separate and apart from liberation from the Salazarian Portuguese. Though ...I am not so sure that Goans or GoaNet have been truly liberated from Salazar. Now if this post passes the GoaNet censor . You can develop the virtue od Last-wordism and have it at the same time. jc PS: Did notice how neatly you side-stepped the questions related to the Money. Nice Try.
Re: [Goanet] Indian colonialism - FN
INTERACTIVE DISCUSSION: Alternative Publishing - Is it viable to traditional publishing? WHERE: Art Lounge - Sunaparanta, Near Lar de Estudantes, Altinho, Panaji WHEN: September 30, 2009 - 5:30pm http://www.facebook.com/n/?event.phpeid=146588805806mid=12a68daG1df3c3d3G2ac936fG7 Even though Frederick Noronha has needlessly injected his parents' personal decisions into this e-discussion, I will AVOID involving them is this - as it will mean asking questions like: a: Most people who were disgusted by Salazar's dictatorship left Goa and went to nearby places. Why did you travel to Brazil ? - Isn't (Wasn't) Bombay or Poona closer? b: What qualifications did you have to survive in Brazil ? c: How did you plan to support yourself and your family in a new land? d: What did you do in Brazil? e: etc etc. FN gives us the snippet of what the Brazilian (Italian) doctor is reported to have said in 1960-something. Is that the example FN gives to counter the assertion that no sensible person BELIEVES in the 'Liberation' propaganda. Believes (present tense) as in 2009? And on what basis does FN equate (fully) the terms Liberation with Liberation from the Portuguese? Are they really the same? I do not believe so - even though reasonable people might justifiably disagree with me on this point. Granted that there is rampant corruption in Goa today, I ask you to consider the following: 1: How much does Goa earn from taxation? 2: What happens to it? 3: How much does Goa earn from tourism? 4: How are those funds accounted for? 5: What really went down with the transfer of Anjediva to the military? 6: Why is the military occupying central places in Ponnje? 7: Why are liberated Goans not allowed to worship at the church in Anjediva? 8: What sort of discussion took place with Goans before the above restrictions were placed in situ? There are others but I will stop and wait for your enlightened responses. jc Frederick Noronha wrote: JC is as far as the truth as the distance between the Bahamas and Goa when he says no sensible person BELIEVES in the 'Liberation' propaganda. A large bulk of Goans, including all those who had been actively excluded (or deprived) of been part of the tiny priviledged classes in colonial times have accepted the demise of Portuguese rule in Goa without as much as a tear. My brother was being born on this day, in Brazil. An Italian doctor told my mum, even as she had delivered, Your country is free. My parents were among those who returned back, enthusiastic.
Re: [Goanet] Indian colonialism - FN
INTERACTIVE DISCUSSION: Alternative Publishing - Is it viable to traditional publishing? WHERE: Art Lounge - Sunaparanta, Near Lar de Estudantes, Altinho, Panaji WHEN: September 30, 2009 - 5:30pm http://www.facebook.com/n/?event.phpeid=146588805806mid=12a68daG1df3c3d3G2ac936fG7 Ah ha! This is something only the one and only JC can do! He will avoid needlessly injecting something into the debate, and then go right ahead and raise precisely those very questions which he wants to avoid raising :-) Welcome to the party I note that JC has neatly side-stepped the substantial issues of my post (my view of the reasons for 1961 looking less of a Liberation today, the scapegoating of others -- specially migrants -- as an excuse for all our ills, Lusostalgia, wanting the benefits of a big market but not the price, the fact that many Goans -- whether Catholic, Hindu or Muslim or whatever -- did feel suffocated under Portuguese rule and didn't shed a tear on its demise, apart from other points raised to Arwin about the famed Supreme Court judgement of Goa becoming part of India due to invasion or annexation or whatever). JC's idea of debate, of course, is firing a Kalashnikov full of questions in answer, or to at least cloud up the context! To take this debate further, I'd need to answer some of the 16 (hope I counted right) wide-ranging and unending queries, raised below! Since lastwordism isn't one of my virtues, I'll end my (non-legal :-)) submissions here. But, before that, let me disappoint JC on one specific issue -- one of the many assumptions he makes while finding any evidence whatsoever to defend his thesis. 2009/9/29 J. Colaco jc cola...@gmail.com: Even though Frederick Noronha has needlessly injected his parents' personal decisions into this e-discussion, I will AVOID involving them is this - as it will mean asking questions like: a: Most people who were disgusted by Salazar's dictatorship left Goa and went to nearby places. Why did you travel to Brazil ? - Isn't (Wasn't) Bombay or Poona closer? Closer to what? You would surely know the levels of Goan outmigration during pre-1961 times, and a statement of this kind could well be making some wrong assumptions. Secondly, I didn't travel to Brazil. I only returned from there :-) Thirdly, the decision of my folks to move to Brazil had zilch to do with Lusostalgia, or anything remotely related to that. In fact, it had more to do with the Third World economics and US capitalism's history of those times. To be specific: a US firm (Kaiser's) had finished their contract in building or restructuring the Tata's steel plant in Jamshedpur, and had a similar project coming up in Santos, Brazil. My dad was offered a job there, and that was the reason for his migration. Had the economics and manpower needs worked different, he might have gone to Timbucktoo instead, as a nun from Moira-Net [http://groups.google.com/group/moira-net] has recently done. Sorry to disappoint and question the logic of your assumptions. Over to you for the last word. Or last many words :-) FN -- FN +91-9822122436 P +91-832-2409490 Updated: http://goabooks.wordpress.com
