Re: [Goanet] London Goenkars, please note!!
Jim, This is not an issue subject to ongoing debate. Only time will tell who the real idiots are. I have made my opinion clear in a response to Velho's when, when, if, when philosophy based on local demand. Even before the growing global economy, the experience of central and south America and Europe is that the demand from locals has little or nothing to do with the increasing value of properties WITH AMBIENCE in tropical climes. As with any investment the buyer has to be able to tell the difference. If someone doesn't think so, it's their money and they have the right to do whatever they please. --- Jim Fernandes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please read my email once again in its entirety, if you'd like to debate on this issue. Jim F. New York. -- Original message -- From: Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- velho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jim Fernandes, If considered in pure economic terms, your post is right on the button. You really would have to be an idiot, if you were a foreign national(of non-Goan descent) buying property in Goa for purely investment purposes in the long term. Mario asks: I know several foreign nationals of non-Goan descent who purchased property in Goa a few years ago, and the property has more than quadrupled in value and the value continues to increase. So, can Jim or Sunith please explain how these people are idiots??? And, while you are at it, can you please explain how property values, which are based on supply and demand, vary depending on whether the investor is a Goan or non-Goan? ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] London Goenkars, please note!!
Hi Mario, The point I was making was from an investment perspective, for a foreign national with no roots in Goa. As is your habit, you have completely misinterpreted the post and have taken it as a personal insult. Unfortunately it will be impossible for me to continue this discussion since your understanding of economics and investing seems to be limited to supply and demand, which you keep repeating montonously. It is quite obvious that you have not read the forecasts for real esate in India from HDFC and other Indian investors with far more knowledge than your NEVER HUMBLE opinion. In the world of economics according to Mario, do economic cycles exist?? Does there exist a field called economic forecasting?? The numbers though approximated are not bogus. The prices on that waterfront for sea facing views are between Rs 40,000-50,000 per sq metre which is very close to the price of real esate in suburbs of Mumbai such as Bandra and Santacruz. Regards Sunith Velho ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] London Goenkars, please note!!
Dear Mario, If you are closely monitoring the real estate situation in Goa and the rest of India, you will find that while property rates have increased manyfold in the last five years the rise in RENTS for residential properties have only increased marginally. Any economist will tell you what this means is that the local DEMAND for residential housing has been satisfied. What is driving prices through the roof is other factors. In Goa's case it is wealthy Indians flocking to Goa for holiday homes. This has all the makings of a BUBBLE. This is being repeatedly pointed out by Swaminathan, Deepak Parekh (chairman HDFC) and others. To give you an example of this, a friend of mine bought a flat in Mumbai for about Rs. 1.5 crores, he rents it out for about Rs. 1.5 lakh a month. For a penthouse close to your residence in Miramar that costs almost Rs. 1.5 crores, you will not find anyone to rent it even for Rs. 30,000. Even the worst performing India specific mutual fund would give you annual returns of 15-25% and much more if you are a smart investor( and invested in S. Korea specific funds). So you are effectively losing upto 37.5 lacs a year in this manner. Secondly, as a foreign national you are losing another significant percentage of your returns because the Rupee is deliberately and continuously weakened against the dollar, pound, euro, etc. The only thing you have going for you as a foreign national who has bought property in Goa is that the property price is increasing very rapidly, however since you are not in touch with the real estate situation in India, you are unaware of all the BUBBLE warnings being issued just as you were unaware of regulations when buying your property from touts( they are not worthy of being called real estate companies). Hence you will be proved an IDIOT in any one of the following ways: 1. When the BUBBLE bursts. 2. When Rane and Co. take over your properties. 3. Now at the height of the real estate boom it is very difficult to sell your property because, all the registrations of sale deeds(of foreign nationals) have been put on hold. 4. When Mopa comes up and the rest of the Konkan coast starts developing(This is a smart investment right now!) But mainly you are an IDIOT because you are investing your money in a volatile market of whose fundamentals you have no idea of. However if you have a Goan connection you will have more access to information regarding the situation in Goa and will find it much easier to dispose of the property at the right time. The Property value WILL remain the same regardless of your ethnic background. Mario, as a man who is interested in economics you should know that residential real estate is a good investment when local DEMAND drives the prices up(since that type of demand always shows predictable behavior). Otherwise your investment is like speculation on the stock exchange. For speculation in real estate you cannot be sitting 5000kms away with no connection to the local scene. Regards Sunith Velho Panjim-Goa I know several foreign nationals of non-Goan descent who purchased property in Goa a few years ago, and the property has more than quadrupled in value and the value continues to increase. So, can Jim or Sunith please explain how these people are idiots??? And, while you are at it, can you please explain how property values, which are based on supply and demand, vary depending on whether the investor is a Goan or non-Goan? ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] London Goenkars, please note!!
Please read my email once again in its entirety, if you'd like to debate on this issue. Jim F. New York. -- Original message -- From: Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- velho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jim Fernandes, If considered in pure economic terms, your post is right on the button. You really would have to be an idiot, if you were a foreign national(of non-Goan descent) buying property in Goa for purely investment purposes in the long term. Mario asks: I know several foreign nationals of non-Goan descent who purchased property in Goa a few years ago, and the property has more than quadrupled in value and the value continues to increase. So, can Jim or Sunith please explain how these people are idiots??? And, while you are at it, can you please explain how property values, which are based on supply and demand, vary depending on whether the investor is a Goan or non-Goan? ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] London Goenkars, please note!!
--- velho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To give you an example of this, a friend of mine bought a flat in Mumbai for about Rs. 1.5 crores, he rents it out for about Rs. 1.5 lakh a month. For a penthouse close to your residence in Miramar that costs almost Rs. 1.5 crores, you will not find anyone to rent it even for Rs. 30,000. Mario asks: Nothing along Miramar is selling for Rs 1.5 crore so your numbers are bogus. Besides most of the people along Miramar are not buying to rent. They are looking at waterfront real estate prices in Goa relative to comparable properties around the world. Velho writes: Hence you will be proved an IDIOT in any one of the following ways: 1. When the BUBBLE bursts. 2. When Rane and Co. take over your properties. 3. Now at the height of the real estate boom it is very difficult to sell your property because, all the registrations of sale deeds(of foreign nationals) have been put on hold. 4. When Mopa comes up and the rest of the Konkan coast starts developing(This is a smart investment right now!) Mario, as a man who is interested in economics you should know that residential real estate is a good investment when local DEMAND drives the prices up (since that type of demand always shows predictable behavior). Mario responds: When, when, If, when. Your analysis is peppered with when's and IF's that are just as likely to be false as true. All you have regurgitated is rank speculation with no regard to the fundamentals of overall supply and demand. In the meantime the prices continue to rise. Local demand means nothing in the growing global economy, where I can look at alternate uses of my funds anywhere in the world. Your worm's eye view doesn't seem to grasp that. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] London Goenkars, please note!!
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Gabe, Like every story, there are two sides to this one, as well. First of all, the Indian Rupee is ever unlikely to get dearer (over long term), against most major western currencies. The logic being: the Indian government works overtime, to ensure the deliberate weakness of its currency. Therefore, if you just hang on to your Pounds, Euros or Dollars, you'd more likely come out a winner over long term basis - roughly, a ten year period. If the British and Indian economies keep cranking at their respective current pace and if you factor in, the expected Indian government's intervention to keep its currency value lower, you could almost guarantee yourself that your Pound would fetch 100 Rupees or more, for every Pound you sell in about 5 years. This brings me to the other side of the story: I have been drawing a quite chuckle, every time I read foreigner's are buying land and other immovable assets in Goa. In my opinion, these guys have no idea what they are getting into! The expected gain in the value of their assets, would almost get wiped out, by the devaluation of the Rupee. Moreover, its risky to purchase land/apartments in Goa, specially, if they get caught up in legal hassles with the locals. Goan courts are notoriously slow in dispensing off cases, should you get entangled in one. To drive my point home, let me explain this scenario with a personal experience: I purchased an apartment in Candolim in the mid-nineties. For arguments sake, lets says I paid 1 million (10 lakh) Rupees. I exchanged my dollars at that time, for something like 32 Rupees to a USD - or a total value of $31,250. Now fast forward to the year 2006 and compare the outcome: The apartment is now valued at 1.5 million (15 lakhs) Rupees. If I sell it and convert the amount back to US Dollars - what do I get back? A lousy $32,600 (at 46 Rupees to a Dollar). And this does not include other costs such as brokerage fees, stamp duty, capital gains tax (if any), currency conversion costs and all the other hassles, one has to go through. Also, note that the US Dollar, is amongst the currencies that grew the least in value, versus the Indian Rupees over that time. Thank god, the Rupee is only at 46 at the moment; had the Rupee gone down to 55 against the USD, I would have gotten clobbered. If I invested $30,000 ten years ago, into some stupid fund, I'd have doubled my money by now. Considering I work on Wall Street and would admit, I am reasonably good at investing on my own (instead of plowing the money in the funds), I could have made much more! So now, do the defensive Goans, see my point ? Let the foreigner's buy as much properties as they want. They aren't going to make much - actually, they would take on more risk and almost always loose. A smart Britisher would be better off, investing his money at the London Stock Exchange. Jim Fernandes. New York. -- Original message -- From: Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sterling is riding high! In Margao you should get at least 87 Rupees to the Pound. Better still sell up and migrate to Goa!! Have a ball, your money will buy more, you will be helping the economy as well! Buy before its too late!! Sterling is high because of USD weakness! -- DEV BOREM KORUM. Gabe Menezes. London, England ___ ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] London Goenkars, please note!!
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Jim Fernandes, If considered in pure economic terms, your post is right on the button. You really would have to be an idiot, if you were a foreign national(of non-Goan descent) buying property in Goa for purely investment purposes in the long term. However if you look at it in terms of a lifestyle investment, it starts to make sense. Where else in the world could you have wonderful weather, beaches, locals who will bend over backwards for you, chauffer driven transport, fine dining, etc. all for less than the monthly rent for a single room in a student residence in London?? While shrewd politicians like Rajan Ghate and Pratapsinh Rane are now using this issue to bolster their 'swadeshi' credentials it must be remembered that the whole issue started because of an RBI notice to the Goa government regarding the disproportionate number of Private Limited Companies(bogus ones!) that were being setup in Goa every year and that these companies were violating existing foreign exchange regulations in their purchase of immovable assets. This fundamental issue has suddenly been sidelined, and the focus has now shifted to colonialism and rising property prices. It is a joke to blame foreign nationals for the rising property prices in Goa. Any person who has bought property in Panjim will testify to the astronomical rise in property prices in the last ten years, and foreigners have not played any part in this. If foreign nationals weren't buying properties in the beach belts, wealthy Indians would be and prices would be the same as they are today. Self righteous goans and crafty politicians have conveniently ignored the fact that the developers and real estate agents are the ones bending the rules and raking in illegal foreign exchange. They are all Goans and not foreign nationals or ghantis or bhaile. If anyone should be punished it is them. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the government is suddenly interested in confiscating these properties for the sole motive of auctioning them off to their cronies at throw away prices. We are not a Banana Republic did someone say?!? Does any Goanetter know the name of the very high ranking RBI official who sent this notice. She is of Goan descent(Lorraine D'Souza???). I remember reading about the notice in the Times of India some time before Rane raked up this issue in the assembly. Regards Sunith Velho Panjim-Goa ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
[Goanet] London Goenkars, please note!!
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Sterling is riding high! In Margao you should get at least 87 Rupees to the Pound. Better still sell up and migrate to Goa!! Have a ball, your money will buy more, you will be helping the economy as well! Buy before its too late!! Sterling is high because of USD weakness! -- DEV BOREM KORUM. Gabe Menezes. London, England ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
