[Goanet] Priests and their fundamental rights
This message is in reply to Message: 11, Dated: Sun, 1 Feb 2009, from: edward desilva on the subject: Priests and their fundamental rights My precise question to ED is: Please explain me what is 10 commandments visa-vise Deed Sea Scrolls? If you can explain me this I will agree to your saying - Education has FILTERED into non Christian Institutions. These people conviniently forget that the Moral education these days is Christian in Origin. (How come Goanet members did not bounce on spelling and grammatical mistakes on this topic!!) Best regards, Dr. U. G. Barad ED writes quoting exchanges of messages: Fr. Ivo C da Souza wrote: The Church isplaying a very important role in the education of children. Most Hindus andMuslims, besides Christians, have taken its benefit...regards. Fr. Ivo -- Dr Barad said! Before I agree or disagree with the writer I would request the writer toprovide details on the number of education institutions in Goa, as of date,which are run and controlled by Churches (Catholic Organizations included),Hindus organizations, and Muslim Organizations and also number of Hindus,Catholics and Muslims studying in each of these institutions. This factualreality will answer writer?s views / expression. ?Best regards,Dr. U. G. BaradOn -- Reply, I also would like to ask the accusing writer to read Fr Ivo's statement again. I repeat - he says: HAVE taken its benefits - MAY I ASK?- HAVE YOU? That is precisely what I keep sayng, Christian education specially the 10 commandments based education has FILTERED into non Christian Institutions. These people conviniently forget that the Moral education these days is Christian in Origin. Just like Democracy which is Greek in Origin (UK and USA think it is theirs) Democratic Countries just practice it - credit goes to Greece/ Simmilarly the fundamental Moral practice practiced these days is Christian in Origin. School is also Greek in Origin (started by Socrates), Accademy and College to Plato and Archimides. ED. Ministers (Pakistan as well as India) Children are sent to Catholic Schools (prefered over Christian school). ED.
[Goanet] Priests and their fundamental rights
Fr. Ivo C da Souza wrote: The Church isplaying a very important role in the education of children. Most Hindus andMuslims, besides Christians, have taken its benefit...regards. Fr. Ivo -- Dr Barad said! Before I agree or disagree with the writer I would request the writer toprovide details on the number of education institutions in Goa, as of date,which are run and controlled by Churches (Catholic Organizations included),Hindus organizations, and Muslim Organizations and also number of Hindus,Catholics and Muslims studying in each of these institutions. This factualreality will answer writer’s views / expression. Best regards,Dr. U. G. BaradOn -- Reply, I also would like to ask the accusing writer to read Fr Ivo's statement again. I repeat - he says: HAVE taken its benefits - MAY I ASK - HAVE YOU? That is precisely what I keep sayng, Christian education specially the 10 commandments based education has FILTERED into non Christian Institutions. These people conviniently forget that the Moral education these days is Christian in Origin. Just like Democracy which is Greek in Origin (UK and USA think it is theirs) Democratic Countries just practice it - credit goes to Greece/ Simmilarly the fundamental Moral practice practiced these days is Christian in Origin. School is also Greek in Origin (started by Socrates), Accademy and College to Plato and Archimides. ED. Ministers (Pakistan as well as India) Children are sent to Catholic Schools (prefered over Christian school). ED.
Re: [Goanet] Priests and their fundamental rights
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * ANKA SERVICES For all your Goa-based media needs - Newspapers and Electronic Media Newspaper Adverts, Press Releases, Press Conferences www.ankaservices.com kam...@ankaservices.com From: "Carvalho" To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" ; --- On Thu, 1/29/09, Santosh Helekar wrote: --- On Thu, 1/29/09, Fr. Ivo C da Souza wrote: > > **The State is not a model in teaching to "critically discern the truth". >The Church is playing a very important role in the education of children. >Most Hindus and Muslims, besides Christians, have taken its benefit... > I am not sure what he means by this statement. Does state have no role to play in the education of children? - I agree with Sandeep and Santosh's assertions. Religion should not play a role in the academic syllabus of a progressive, secular state. It is grossly immoral to impart falsities to our children in the name of religion. We have to move beyond the medieval concepts of science and morality that the major religions of this world. ***The State has a very important role in the education of children. People prefer schools where values are also imparted. Catholic schools have the duty of imparting values. In our schools religious teaching is also imparted according to the time-table. Religious teaching should be also "progressive". If you refer to creationism, then it is not progressive. But Creation, as taught in the Bible, is not excluding the theory of evolution. Both can be taught in the schools in the Science and Religion classes respectively. Religion does not impart "falsities". I would like to learn from you more about "medieval concepts of science and morality". regards. Fr.Ivo
Re: [Goanet] Priests and their fundamental rights
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * ANKA SERVICES For all your Goa-based media needs - Newspapers and Electronic Media Newspaper Adverts, Press Releases, Press Conferences www.ankaservices.com kam...@ankaservices.com From: "edward desilva" From: "Sandeep Heble" < sandeepheble at gmail.com >> Should Priests and other spiritual figures associated with religion >enjoy an absolute freedom to preach or should their freedom be a > restricted one? ***Yes, provided that they preach with wisdom, responsibility and love (Fr.Ivo). -- Hi Fr Ivo, I did not bother to respond to this topic because. This topic has been dealt with in 'detail' during the elections. (I suppose you have more patience than me). Either some posters here are short of understanding, have short memory OR are pure and simple a chamcha. Are the moderators wasting their time filing away all the topic that was discussed during the elections and etc. topics? Why can't they go back and have a look at what was discussed? ED.. ***I answered this question, because I thought that there were some sweeping statements and accusations... If this point came in the context of elections, it is not limited now to elections. It seems to be a general question. Regarding the elections, priests and spiritual leaders can cerainly guide the people with principles. They should not delve into partisan politics within the premises of the temples or churches, in order to save communion with all the members. Regards. Fr.Ivo
Re: [Goanet] Priests and their fundamental rights
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * ANKA SERVICES For all your Goa-based media needs - Newspapers and Electronic Media Newspaper Adverts, Press Releases, Press Conferences www.ankaservices.com kam...@ankaservices.com From: "Dr. U. G. Barad" ***I did not base myself on any scientific statistics. I know that Catholic schools are preferred all over India. I know that that are so many applications to Catholic schools from Hindus and Muslims. I know that students, studying for some time in excellent schools, are then taken to Catholic schools because of teaching of values... By counting the students and the schools, as U.G.Barad suggests, will not answer the question. The reality will not be uncovered, because there is limited number of Catholic schools and people are seeking both excellence in studies and in values... There is no doubt that "the Church is playing a very important role in the education of children". Regards. Fr.Ivo On Thu, 1/29/09, Fr. Ivo C da Souza wrote: The Church is playing a very important role in the education of children. Most Hindus and Muslims, besides Christians, have taken its benefit...regards. Fr. Ivo
[Goanet] Priests and their fundamental rights
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * ANKA SERVICES For all your Goa-based media needs - Newspapers and Electronic Media Newspaper Adverts, Press Releases, Press Conferences www.ankaservices.com kam...@ankaservices.com For those who have problem clicking here is the news:- (Dr. U. G. Barad) If the revolting images of women being slapped, pushed and molested inMangalore in the name of protecting Hindu culture seemed like the work ofIndia's loony political fringe, think again. --- Hi, Slapping women in India, Hitting women on their ankels and hands in Afghanistan (of a lady surgeon, whose hands were swollen due to this, and could not operate). Burning churches, killing innocent Christians (just because of their Religion). IS DUE TO LACK OF EDUCATION. Is state education sufficient to change this jungle culture, which is emination due to 'lack' of PROPER education? Some people may have had a good education due to direct or filtered Missionary education connections into their curriculum (like Porrikar and such like). Priests do not force children or parents to send their children to be educated or to be converted, (we are not in the dark ages in 2009). But, by the looks of it, I feel that some people 'are', on Goanet (mentally in the dark ages I mean, simply because they belong to other religion than Christianity). ED.
[Goanet] Priests and their fundamental rights
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * ANKA SERVICES For all your Goa-based media needs - Newspapers and Electronic Media Newspaper Adverts, Press Releases, Press Conferences www.ankaservices.com kam...@ankaservices.com Before I agree or disagree with the writer I would request the writer to provide details on the number of education institutions in Goa, as of date, which are run and controlled by Churches (Catholic Organizations included), Hindus organizations, and Muslim Organizations and also number of Hindus, Catholics and Muslims studying in each of these institutions. This factual reality will answer writers views / expression. Best regards, Dr. U. G. Barad On Thu, 1/29/09, Fr. Ivo C da Souza wrote: The Church is playing a very important role in the education of children. Most Hindus and Muslims, besides Christians, have taken its benefit...regards. Fr. Ivo
Re: [Goanet] Priests and their fundamental rights
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * ANKA SERVICES For all your Goa-based media needs - Newspapers and Electronic Media Newspaper Adverts, Press Releases, Press Conferences www.ankaservices.com kam...@ankaservices.com --- On Fri, 1/30/09, edward desilva wrote: > > Actions speak louder than your meaningless 'chamcha' words. > I think what he means by meaningless 'chamcha' words is words such as "dittermined" and "refelct" that have no meaning in the English language taught in a secular school that also teaches Hindi and Marathi. Cheers, Santosh edward desilva wrote: > >How is Good and Bad dittermined? >If you fall back and refelct. >
[Goanet] Priests and their fundamental rights
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * ANKA SERVICES For all your Goa-based media needs - Newspapers and Electronic Media Newspaper Adverts, Press Releases, Press Conferences www.ankaservices.com kam...@ankaservices.com >Most Hindus and Muslims, besides Christians, have taken >its benefit... >> >>I >am not sure what he means by this statement. Does state >have no role >to play >in the education of children? --I agree with Sandeep and Santosh's >assertions. Religion should not play a role in the academic syllabus of a >progressive, secular state. It is grossly immoral to impart falsities to our >children in the name of religion. We have to move beyond the medieval concepts >of science and morality that the major religions of this world propagate.Selma --- Hi, The state schools do not uphold the rights and wrongs in society. Like in the Christian education the 'minimum' to follow are the ten commandments. State schools do not even have that, so how will the state education help - which RULE (measure I mean) do they follow? How is Good and Bad dittermined? If you fall back and refelct - you will find that the principles of 'Christian education' creeps into the psyche of education system as a whole, like it or not. ED.
[Goanet] Priests and their fundamental rights
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * ANKA SERVICES For all your Goa-based media needs - Newspapers and Electronic Media Newspaper Adverts, Press Releases, Press Conferences www.ankaservices.com kam...@ankaservices.com --- On Thu, 1/29/09, Fr. Ivo C da Souza wrote:>>**The State is not a model in teaching to "critically discern the truth". >The Church is playing a very important role in the education of children. >Most Hindus and Muslims, besides Christians, have taken its benefit... >I am not sure what he means by this statement. Does state have no roleto play in the education of children? Only the Church can criticallydiscern the truth for all children, even the Muslim and Hindu ones,because it is playing a very important role in education?Cheers,Santosh --- Hi, The state falls short of the true role of proper education. That is why the ministers send their children (more so in Pakistan) to missionary schools, and then to UK and USA. If the state education in India was good enough, there was no need for children to go Abroad for their education. The Priests just sends the right and TRUE message to the chiildren they teach. The Priests did not force the parents to send their children to them to be taught, it is the parents choice. Porrikar got his education from a Catholic School and in turn he sent HIS children to a Catholic school. Actions speak louder than your meaningless 'chamcha' words. ED.
Re: [Goanet] Priests and their fundamental rights
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * ANKA SERVICES For all your Goa-based media needs - Newspapers and Electronic Media Newspaper Adverts, Press Releases, Press Conferences www.ankaservices.com kam...@ankaservices.com --- On Thu, 1/29/09, Santosh Helekar wrote: > --- On Thu, 1/29/09, Fr. Ivo C da Souza > wrote: > > > > **The State is not a model in teaching to > "critically discern the truth". >The Church is > playing a very important role in the education of children. > >Most Hindus and Muslims, besides Christians, have taken > its benefit... > > > > I am not sure what he means by this statement. Does state > have no role > to play in the education of children? - I agree with Sandeep and Santosh's assertions. Religion should not play a role in the academic syllabus of a progressive, secular state. It is grossly immoral to impart falsities to our children in the name of religion. We have to move beyond the medieval concepts of science and morality that the major religions of this world propagate. Selma
[Goanet] Priests and their fundamental rights
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * ANKA SERVICES For all your Goa-based media needs - Newspapers and Electronic Media Newspaper Adverts, Press Releases, Press Conferences www.ankaservices.com kam...@ankaservices.com From: "Sandeep Heble" < sandeepheble at gmail.com >> Should Priests and other spiritual figures associated with religion >enjoy an absolute freedom to preach or should their freedom be a > restricted one? ***Yes, provided that they preach with wisdom, responsibility and love (Fr.Ivo). -- Hi Fr Ivo, I did not bother to respond to this topic because. This topic has been dealt with in 'detail' during the elections. (I suppose you have more patience than me). Either some posters here are short of understanding, have short memory OR are pure and simple a chamcha. Are the moderators wasting their time filing away all the topic that was discussed during the elections and etc. topics? Why can't they go back and have a look at what was discussed? ED..
Re: [Goanet] Priests and their fundamental rights
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * ANKA SERVICES For all your Goa-based media needs - Newspapers and Electronic Media Newspaper Adverts, Press Releases, Press Conferences www.ankaservices.com kam...@ankaservices.com --- On Thu, 1/29/09, Fr. Ivo C da Souza wrote: > > **The State is not a model in teaching to "critically discern the truth". > >The Church is playing a very important role in the education of children. > >Most Hindus and Muslims, besides Christians, have taken its benefit... > I am not sure what he means by this statement. Does state have no role to play in the education of children? Only the Church can critically discern the truth for all children, even the Muslim and Hindu ones, because it is playing a very important role in education? Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Priests and their fundamental rights
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * ANKA SERVICES For all your Goa-based media needs - Newspapers and Electronic Media Newspaper Adverts, Press Releases, Press Conferences www.ankaservices.com kam...@ankaservices.com From: "Sandeep Heble" Should Priests and other spiritual figures associated with religion enjoy an absolute freedom to preach or should their freedom be a restricted one? ***Yes, provided that they preach with wisdom, responsibility and love. Our freedom is always "situated" in the living context... The holy men being citizens do enjoy fundamental rights under the articles of freedom of speech and expression but a Secular State, liberals, critical journalists, scientists and rationalists should not justify their orthodox and retrograde actions simply because they happen to be the "men of God". ***That is what freedom of speech is... If you have the freedom to say that there is no God, "holy men" have the right and duty to proclaim God and to build up a civilization of love... "Orthodox" or "retrograde" actions are to be critically assessed... For instance, when we know that the Earth is round, a secular State must not allow the priests to get away with preaching to young innocent minds that the Earth is flat, even though some holy books written a few thousand years ago may have said so. **There is no such "stupid" priest, nor Scriptures... What Scriptures have contained from pre-critical and pre-scientific times is to be assessed today in the new light. That is what theology and biblical exegesis teach today. You cannot expect to have everything scientifically new in the holy books of those times. They do not teach you science, but truths about God and relationship of humankind with God... The "men-in robes" should not be allowed to get away with preaching and/or indoctrinating the minds of children and others with values and beliefs which are harmful and incompatible with science and other modern principles like equality, liberty and freedom. ***No "men-in-robes" will "indoctrinate the minds of children" with "values and beliefs" which are "harnful". If they are harmful, they cease to be values. They are to be discarded. Bible teaches principles of equality, liberty and freedom already in the times of "ignorance and scientific illiteracy"... The State needs to deal with these people with the same firmness as it deals with frauds and charlatans. Our children need to grow up to become good rational citizens who will understand to objectively and critically discern the truth. **The State is not a model in teaching to "critically discern the truth". The Church is playing a very important role in the education of children. Most Hindus and Muslims, besides Christians, have taken its benefit... regards. Fr.Ivo
[Goanet] Priests and their fundamental rights
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Should Priests and other spiritual figures associated with religion
enjoy an absolute freedom to preach or should their freedom be a
restricted one?
The holy men being citizens do enjoy fundamental rights under the
articles of freedom of speech and expression but a Secular State,
liberals, critical journalists, scientists and rationalists should not
justify their orthodox and retrograde actions simply because they
happen to be the "men of God".
For instance, when we know that the Earth is round, a secular State
must not allow the priests to get away with preaching to young
innocent minds that the Earth is flat, even though some holy books
written a few thousand years ago may have said so.
Jeffrey Goldberg, an Israeli-American Journalist, studied the
education system of the madrassas in Pakistan some years ago. He later
reported in the New York Times that poor and impressionable children
were kept largely ignorant of the world and were taught a one-
dimensional interpretation of Islam. Students came to see the world
divided in two domains: the peaceful worldwide community of Muslims
("the abode of peace") and everywhere else ("the abode of war").
The harmful effects of the "madarasas" are there for all to see. The
same principles would hold true to children who are imparted orthodox
education in Hindu/ Christian institutions. The children are the
triceps and biceps of our Nation. They are our future. They will shape
the Nation, either for the good, or for the bad.
The "men-in robes" should not be allowed to get away with preaching
and/or indoctrinating the minds of children and others with values and
beliefs which are harmful and incompatible with science and other
modern principles like equality, liberty and freedom.
The State needs to deal with these people with the same firmness as it
deals with frauds and charlatans. Our children need to grow up to
become good rational citizens who will understand to objectively and
critically discern the truth.
We need more Abdul kalams, not Osamas! This is the least a modern
Society owes to posterity.
Cheers
Sandeep Heble
Panjim-Goa
