Re: [Goanet] Sanal ani CSF (final ....I hope)

2012-05-23 Thread Santosh Helekar
Continuing this interesting discussion further, let me point out how a 
religious loyalty/political campaign in Goan forums has propagated the 
following falsehoods, either explicitly or by implication:

1. That the dripping statue was never claimed to be an unexplained miraculous 
phenomenon at any time by the people who filed the criminal law suit against 
Sanal.
2. That Sanal's offense was not his blasphemy of exposing the fake miracle, 
but the hurt feelings from some unproven extraneous statements that he has 
alleged to have made.
3. Those who file a criminal complaint under this law mean to use it, not as a 
blasphemy law, but as a hate speech law.

The following direct quote of the general secretary of the CSF, which has filed 
one of the criminal lawsuits, and mass emailed that crappy disingenuous 
newsletter that was recycled in this forum over and over again by one of its 
apologists, clearly demonstrates that this guy believed that the dripping 
statue was an abnormal phenomenon with no plausible explanation just because it 
was captured on TV, and providing a natural scientific explanation for it was 
therefore blasphemy.

QUOTE
Joseph Dias, from the Catholic-Christian Secular Forum, a national activist 
community group, has labeled his statements on the statue intolerable. 

His remarks were blatantly false, Dias said. The abnormal phenomenon was 
captured live on TV and the media for two days and no plausible explanation 
could be found as to why the crucifix was dripping with water. This was 
blasphemy, lies and defamation. 

UNQUOTE

Please 
see: http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/18431327/genuine-miracle-or-just-bad-plumbing-weeping-jesus-statue-stirs-up-blasphemy-row-in-india

Cheers,

Santosh

- Original Message -
 From: J. Colaco   jc cola...@gmail.com
 To: goa...@goanet.org
 Cc: 
 Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 11:57 AM
 Subject: Re: [Goanet] Sanal ani CSF (final I hope)
 
 Preface: I hope that this will mark the end of this thread. Not that the
 discussion was not interesting, BUT because it was tangential, unworthy of
 being called a discussion (because of the intransigent positions taken by
 individuals who differed with each other) and truly AWFULLY FORMATTED for
 anyone to follow without Panadol..
 
 As far as I am concerned, the discussion was totally useless and was doing
 nothing to bring about any understanding.
 
 Allow me please to (very briefly) restate my points:
 
 1: Individuals like Sanal, Salazare and organizations like the CSF are very
 useful for the purposes of keeping people (besides themselves) in check.
 
 2: These useful but unaccountable folks should NEVER be allowed to
 supersede those individuals (i.e. govt officials incl judges  elected
 officials) who are answerable to the population by way of Judicial Review
 or Electoral Approval/Rejection.
 
 3: Any other way, and we have a recipe for unaccountable nutty folks
 running amok -  and the resultant breakdown of a democratic system.
 
 4: IF Sanal has accused the clergy of presenting this miracle for 
 the
 purpose of funds (I am paraphrasing here), he needs to provide the proof
 for this OR withdraw it. The ENTRAPMENT  claim ignored the principle 
 of
 balance of power between a normally powerful state authority and an
 individual with limited or zero authority.
 
 5: Even if Sanal refuses to withdraw it, the members of the Church would do
 well to move ahead. Are you not the folks who preach turn the other
 cheek? Practise it.
 
 6: This business about suing this one and that one, not only gives
 unwarranted attention to a veritable nut (even one with with good
 intentions), it also brings the Church into the sewage (pun intended). The
 only folks who gain anything are the lawyers.
 
 7: Please (and I am speaking to reasonable folks), Please allow free
 speech. ...The more you ignore it, the more comfortable you will be.
 and the more miserable the NUTS will be.
 
 8: Pay NO mind to these so called 'blasphemy laws'. Remember that these
 types of 'unreasonable' laws can and WILL come back to bite 
 us in strange
 places. You like to play with such toys, feel free.
 
 So much from me
 
 jc



Re: [Goanet] Sanal ani CSF (final ....I hope)

2012-05-20 Thread J. Colaco jc
Preface: I hope that this will mark the end of this thread. Not that the
discussion was not interesting, BUT because it was tangential, unworthy of
being called a discussion (because of the intransigent positions taken by
individuals who differed with each other) and truly AWFULLY FORMATTED for
anyone to follow without Panadol..

As far as I am concerned, the discussion was totally useless and was doing
nothing to bring about any understanding.

Allow me please to (very briefly) restate my points:

1: Individuals like Sanal, Salazare and organizations like the CSF are very
useful for the purposes of keeping people (besides themselves) in check.

2: These useful but unaccountable folks should NEVER be allowed to
supersede those individuals (i.e. govt officials incl judges  elected
officials) who are answerable to the population by way of Judicial Review
or Electoral Approval/Rejection.

3: Any other way, and we have a recipe for unaccountable nutty folks
running amok -  and the resultant breakdown of a democratic system.

4: IF Sanal has accused the clergy of presenting this miracle for the
purpose of funds (I am paraphrasing here), he needs to provide the proof
for this OR withdraw it. The ENTRAPMENT  claim ignored the principle of
balance of power between a normally powerful state authority and an
individual with limited or zero authority.

5: Even if Sanal refuses to withdraw it, the members of the Church would do
well to move ahead. Are you not the folks who preach turn the other
cheek? Practise it.

6: This business about suing this one and that one, not only gives
unwarranted attention to a veritable nut (even one with with good
intentions), it also brings the Church into the sewage (pun intended). The
only folks who gain anything are the lawyers.

7: Please (and I am speaking to reasonable folks), Please allow free
speech. ...The more you ignore it, the more comfortable you will be.
and the more miserable the NUTS will be.

8: Pay NO mind to these so called 'blasphemy laws'. Remember that these
types of 'unreasonable' laws can and WILL come back to bite us in strange
places. You like to play with such toys, feel free.

So much from me

jc