[Goanet] The Inquisition (Spanish)... two views
How Bad was the Spanish Inquisition? (Short Animated Documentary) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrjbtvKfPFk Timewatch: The Myth of the Spanish Inquisition (1994) BBC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY-pS6iLFuc&t=115s ᐧ
[Goanet] The Inquisition & SFX And The Trade In KILWA
Part II Last Friday in tasic Message was *Did SFX torture and force Hindus, Early Christians and Moslem to became Catholics? Was he the *Grand Inquisitor. NO! NO ! Perhaps the Dominicans SFX preached the Gospel, cared for the sick. He was a linguist. He suffered a lot during his travels. During one trip when the boat sunk and he lost his cross, the crab dropped the cross near him. (Talk of Goans & Crab Mentality) He spent only 10 months in India but he was more impressed by the Far East. Malaysia, Japan and China. The reality in today's world from Trump to Modi, Brazil to Philippines is that there is the mixing of Politics and Religion it causes Greed and substitutes Gods I PART II A Focus On Kilwa Kilwa is a name of a district in present day Tanzania, It is also the name of a port and a settlement. In 1489 / 90 A Portuguese scout named Pero da Covilha disguised as an Arab merchant, did a lot of intelligence gathering and after visiting Malindi, Sofala and eventually landed in Lisbon where he presented his report, In 1496 Vasco da Gama armed with Covilha’s report left Lisbon with his flotilla of ships on his epic journey to India and the East. The following year, in 1497 he reached the Sultanate of Kilwa where he tried to make contact with Kilwa vassals in Mozambique. Mombasa and Malindi seeking their cooperation as staging posts for the Portugese fleets on trading missions. In 1500, the second Armada under Pedro Alvares Cabral arrived in Kilwa but failed to negotiate with the sultanate. For the next decade or so there were intrigues, double crossing and counter coups and assassinations by and within family members of the local leaders and the Portuguese slowly succeeded in establishing footholds in Eastern Africa and even erected the fortress of Santiago on Kilwa and left a garrison behind, under the command of Pedro Ferreira Fogaça. Meanwhile Goa was a mosquito ridden swamp, with Hindus. Muslims clashing with each other and intrigues and alliances enacted all over again. Portuguese rule was not very welcome by the various vassals . Particularly grating was the mposition of Portuguese Mercantilist laws on the sultanate, forbidding all but Portuguese ships to carry trade in the principal coastal towns. The majority of traders and merchants from Kilwa were thrown out of business.including the lucrative trade in gold, ivory, gum etc. Eventually trading companies from England, the Netherlands, France would dominate . Those responsible for inquisition were lustful (yes ) psychopaths, greedy to the core, more interested in acquiring land and wealth of those they enjoyed torturing, burning etc. Was SFX disgusted with what he saw in Goa.? Jesuits, like SFX converted people by making them understand.so language, customs were important/ Soon the Jesuits would earn the wrath of the conservative Bishops and Popes ! Some time ago, I picked the book “ Slaves And Sultans” Alan Machado Prabhu who comes from Aldona, where my maternal Grandfather and Grandmother built their home. Most of Machado’s family were lost. After numerous examples of heroism, for instance Mendes who sacrificed his life by pretending he was Tippu, Pinto who organized an escape route Pascal Gonsalves who defied authorities to visit his aged mother. Peter Rego who defied the authorities and built a chapel in Manglore. Therefore in his conclusion he states: *These and many ordinary men and women, boy and girls mainly unsung and unknown are and will continue to be, the real heroes” * Nelson who raised the whole issue of being a Christian, came to the conclusion that following the Beatitudes was more important than merely following rituals. I agree. Christ himself did not live in the temple, he preached, he cured, he asked the Samaritan woman for water, Finally there are more than a millionCatholics all over the world. Are they all stupid to believe that there is a Higher Being, that we humans. While the vast majority profess a belief be it Hinduism, Moslems or Buddhist , there is no war between the Gods. Therefore . Pray can anyone explain why SFX did not impose the Inquisition in Japan or Malaysia etc
Re: [Goanet] The Inquisition Lore
Dearest Gilbert, Blessings! Thank you so much for your valuable inputs. Our Trust is definitely focused to research, collect and assemble hidden facts, as well as segregate distorted facts as presented in today's day and age. We would definitely love to share notes on the subjects, and together take things forward for a better Goa. As is our vision. We could also be glad and look forward to actually meet up. warm regards, Adrian Simoes Managing Director; The Judeo-Christian Heritage of the West Coast of India Trust Panjim - Goa On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 7:17 AM, Gilbert Lawrence wrote: > Adrian Simoes wrote: Managing Director; The Judeo-Christian Heritage of > the West Coast of India. > Panjim - Goa > > > it was just a "holy purging", 3000 Jews including Garcia de Orta's sister > being killed in Ela, Old Goa was an exaggeration! Was it? > GL Responds: > Yes! What you have quoted above is a gross exaggeration if not fiction. I > would have expected better with your title. Please read some factual > accounts and the following are a few of them. So thanks for giving me the > opportunity to present them. > The Inquisition period extended from 1560 to 1812 with a short period when > it was abolished. During the approximate 250 years, authoritative > historians report fifty seven (57) perpetrators (Europeans and Indians) > were sentenced to death and executed. An equal number died in effigy; > suggesting the desire of the authorities to use the Auto de Fe event as a > deterrence to crime for the local population. > My reading of Goan history: During the interim period when the > inquisition was abolished, a few hundred Goans died in forced labor camps > in the efforts of the Portuguese colonial authorities to build its capital > in Vasco and later at Panjim. Likely the lack of an "Inquisition > authority" over the governor permitted the colonial government to brutalize > the native population as a whole with more vicious measures with compulsory > forced displacement of the native male population from their villages to > labor camps. > Absolute power and atrocities of the monarchs during this period of > "Absolute Monarch" (16th -19th centuries) was not confined only to Europe. > Similar state-ruler atrocities / cruelties were committed by Hindu Rajas > and Muslim Sultans in the Indian subcontinent. A visit to Hampi and > Bijapur displays the prisons and torture techniques. While Europe saw the > kings rule by "divine right" after the 16th century, that cloak of divine > authority was assumed in India much earlier as seen by the royal titles of > the Indian kings. > Some of the old uncivilized torture techniques even exist today as > water-boarding, electric shocks etc in several civilized countries of > Europe, Americas and Middle East. > Regards, GL >
Re: [Goanet] The Inquisition Lore
Adrian Simoes wrote: Managing Director; The Judeo-Christian Heritage of the West Coast of India. Panjim - Goa it was just a "holy purging", 3000 Jews including Garcia de Orta's sister being killed in Ela, Old Goa was an exaggeration! Was it? GL Responds: Yes! What you have quoted above is a gross exaggeration if not fiction. I would have expected better with your title. Please read some factual accounts and the following are a few of them. So thanks for giving me the opportunity to present them. The Inquisition period extended from 1560 to 1812 with a short period when it was abolished. During the approximate 250 years, authoritative historians report fifty seven (57) perpetrators (Europeans and Indians) were sentenced to death and executed. An equal number died in effigy; suggesting the desire of the authorities to use the Auto de Fe event as a deterrence to crime for the local population. My reading of Goan history: During the interim period when the inquisition was abolished, a few hundred Goans died in forced labor camps in the efforts of the Portuguese colonial authorities to build its capital in Vasco and later at Panjim. Likely the lack of an "Inquisition authority" over the governor permitted the colonial government to brutalize the native population as a whole with more vicious measures with compulsory forced displacement of the native male population from their villages to labor camps. Absolute power and atrocities of the monarchs during this period of "Absolute Monarch" (16th -19th centuries) was not confined only to Europe. Similar state-ruler atrocities / cruelties were committed by Hindu Rajas and Muslim Sultans in the Indian subcontinent. A visit to Hampi and Bijapur displays the prisons and torture techniques. While Europe saw the kings rule by "divine right" after the 16th century, that cloak of divine authority was assumed in India much earlier as seen by the royal titles of the Indian kings. Some of the old uncivilized torture techniques even exist today as water-boarding, electric shocks etc in several civilized countries of Europe, Americas and Middle East. Regards, GL
[Goanet] The Inquisition Lore
Santosh Helekar writes: Priolkar's book relies naturally on secondary sources. But it was well-received by eminent historians such as C. R. Boxer. Regarding Dellon and Buchanan, I should have said that they are eyewitness accounts rather than well-researched. No independent facts contradict what they have written. They have been maligned based on pure speculations and biases of their detractors, and generalization of such ideological concoctions as the "Black Legend" to the Goan situation. GL responds: Eyewitness accounts too can have biases and an ax to grind. It is for later readers to sift through the facts or see through the account presented on the issues; with the benefit of hindsight. FACT: Dellon was a French physician practicing in Diu having an amorous affair with his patient; who happened to be the mistress of the (Portuguese) governor of Diu. What would be the punishment for that offence be TODAY? Loss of medical license and a charge of rape of the patient. (there is nothing like consensual sex between a physician and the patient). Dr. Dillon (by his own account) was given opportunities to repent and leave Diu and Goa. But the French physician may have thought he was smarter than the Portuguese. What should the authorities have done to the doctor when the complaints were made against him? What would have been done TODAY if a physician had these undeniable complaints lodged against him? Reading Dillon's work, the author maligns himself as a nobel professional with poor judgment and poor character who took advantage of his position; and who just refused to accept his mistakes and misjudgments.Regards, GL
[Goanet] The Inquisition Lore
By Frederick Noronha It's 2012 and Vincent and Martha are falling "instantly in love with Goa". Four sentences into Ashwin Sanghi's The Rozabal Line (Westland, 2008), we encounter the Inquisition. Predictable? Like few others, the Inquisition motif is one which comes up repeatedly in writing on Goa. It does so once more in "India's bestselling theological thriller". This has happened with so much regularity, that we just seem to take it as a given now. >From novels to works in Konkani, translated texts, video CDs and even official accounts of Goa's history, this story is writ large. But how much of this is really true? You get a hint of something not quite being right if search up for information on the Black Legend. Put briefly, the Black Legend is a style of writing - or propaganda - that demonises the Spanish Empire, its people and its culture. As if to suggest that the blackest were the Spaniards, while other colonial empires were rather pleasantly-run enterprises. For understandable reasons, this at times extends to the Portuguese too. Spanish history gets projected in a deeply negative light; the reasons why this happens is interesting in itself but beyond the scope of this discussion. Suffice to note that depicting exaggerated versions of the Spanish Inquisition form a key part of this. Ever since Priolkar's book on the subject (The Goa Inquisition: The Terrible Tribunal for the East), published thrice by a State university, a Hindutva publishing house, and locally, the first time being just before Liberation, this motif is taken for granted in Goa too. Expectedly, over time, it gets new life of its own. Scratch a bit below the surface, and it becomes obvious that there's a whole different reality out there. Globally too, questions are being asked. One place to start unwrapping the knotted ball of thread and mythification is perhaps a 1994 BBC documentary on the myths of the Spanish Inquisition. See it online at http://bit.ly/BBCSpIn. Turns out from a detailed and closer look that not only were accounts of the Inquisition grossly exaggerated, but there was in fact also a whole industry of creating these myths that survived centuries. It was promoted by various quarters, from manifold reasons. What one learn in the above documentary would go so much against what one is used to believing, that it takes quite some time for the reality to soak it in. In Goa itself, the accounts of the Inquisition depend largely on the versions of Buchanan (1766-1815) and Dellon (1650-1710). The first was a Scottish theologian, whose biases about faiths other than his own have been documented elsewhere. David Higgs (in The Inquisition in Late Eighteenth-Century Goa, in Goa; Continuity and Change, edited by Narendra K Wagle and George Coelho, University of Toronto 1995) gives us another perspective when he acknowledges the role Priolkar's 1961 study played in shaping the debate. Higgs writes: "Priolkar drew heavily on secondary sources in his sketch on the Goan Inquisition, especially on a late seventeenth-century Frenchman, Gabriel Dellon, arrested in Goa, whose case was made famous by the denunciatory account of his experiences published after his return from France". He calls Dellon's version an "exuberant account of his misfortunes". Likewise, Higgs points out, Priolkar also used the "over-imaginative account of a British clergyman, C Buchanan, who wanted to think that what he was not allowed to see in Old Goa in 1808 was what Dellon inveighed at more than a century earlier". >From the time these accounts first came about, they were taken to by a number of diverse quarters. For different reasons. Jansenists, Gallicians, pro-Protestants and anti-Spanish Frenchmen highlighted such writing. Dellon has himself been identified with pro-Calvanism and the Gallician policy of Louis XIV, to whose court Dellon had been admitted. Since then, the mythification of the Inquisition has been used to push 21st century communal battles. Perspectives from Judaism and Hindutva also take the debate along a road of its own. But it is not only the world of fiction that is shaped by the assiduously created Inquisition lore. When former top cop Julio Ribeiro voices alarm over the communalisation of Indian public life, someone in cyberspace thinks it fit to remind him: "We, perforce, have to talk about the utterly violent and murderous record of Christianity in India, with specific reference to the Portuguese Inquisition in Goa". In a recent online thread, the noted Indo-Portuguese historian Teotonio R de Souza spoke out publicly about how his writing on the Inquisition had been mauled and manipulated, to project a certain vision. He complained of his writing being hijacked, and text which he never wrote added under his name. Commented Souza: "One first paragraph is drawn from an article of mine in a book edited by M D David, and the rest is all added from elsewhere and with orthographic and syntax mistakes galore. That arti
[Goanet] THE INQUISITION LORE
The "Inquisition Lore" in today's "Navhind Times' Panorama" written by the great writer, journalist and book publisher Mr. Frederick Noronha is an excellent article. It is an appropriate commentary to various writings on Inquisition and touches on contentious statements and nails the terrible lies that have been spread on the subject. I wish it is read by all including one netizen who uses rabid language out of context. Dr. Francisco Colaco
Re: [Goanet] The Inquisition
--- On Mon, 6/22/09, Mario Goveia wrote: > > I looked in vain in for any evidence that the Inquisition > had anything to do with Christians being attacked in India > the last couple of years, or to support Gilbert's assertion, > "More Christians likely were killed for their religion in > those episodes (without charges and trial) last year than > individuals killed for their religion in the over 350 years > of Inquisition." > Perhaps, someone can now start a hate-Hindu blog or website displaying this assertion of Gilbert. Wait a minute! This is what he meant when he asked me to "modulate" the hate-Christian blogs and websites. Now I have got to purchase a powerful modulator-demodulator to do this "modulation". The one my computer has currently might not be good enough for the job. Cheers, Santosh --- On Mon, 6/22/09, Mario Goveia wrote: > Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 20:03:16 -0700 (PDT) > From: Gilbert Lawrence > > Some claim the Inquisition is past history for which > current Christians are not responsible. They, need to > browse the web for the hate-Christian web sites. Many of the > anti-Christian riots last year across several states in > India did not occur in a vacuum. More Christians likely were > killed for their religion in those episodes (without charges > and trial) last year than individuals killed for their > religion in the over 350 years of Inquisition. > http://www.cbcisite.com/cbcinews2821.htm > > Mario responds: > > I would like Gilbert to disprove the claim that the > Inquisition is past history for which current Christians are > not responsible. > > I looked in vain in for any evidence that the Inquisition > had anything to do with Christians being attacked in India > the last couple of years, or to support Gilbert's assertion, > "More Christians likely were killed for their religion in > those episodes (without charges and trial) last year than > individuals killed for their religion in the over 350 years > of Inquisition." > > Then I noticed the adjective "likely" and began to realize > that this was just another trademark Gilbert straw > man. Is this is the standard by which the Inquisition > should be discussed, or obfuscated, as we have seen in this > forum? >
Re: [Goanet] The Inquisition
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 15:34:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Gilbert Lawrence Not long ago, a poster from Holland wrote to me privately requesting information on the inquisition in Goa. I asked the poster if she had researched the atrocities of the Dutch in its colonies; of which we only know only a little, when we read about Fr. Joseph Vaz in Ceylon. She declined to continue the dialog. I guess this is the modern day version of the Dutch-Portuguese animosity, which still is alive. Mario observes: More likely, the poster from Holland sensed that she would be unable to carry on a rational dialog withh someone who asks whether one has "researched" the Dutch Inquisition when asked about the Portuguese Inquisition. Gilbert wrote: I am also most intrigued by the veneration given to Dellon's writings. Yet if Dr. Charles Dellon TODAY committed the same offense in USA, he would permanently loose his medical license (for having a sexual relation with his patient), and be literally sued for all he is worth. Mario observes: The answer certainly lies in the fact that a) Dr. Dellon did not commit his offense TODAY in the USA, and b) Dellon's "venerated" writings were about his personal observations and experiences and the Inquisition, not some medical opinions that would lose objectivity because of a sexual relationship with a patient. By some accounts Dellon was considered an awesome describer of things he had personally observed and experienced, including the Portuguese Inquisition. See the following excerpt from the book, "Distant Lands and Diverse Cultures", Page 164: http://books.google.com/books?id=phdWSnCIMwwC&pg=PA163&lpg=PA163&dq=Dr.+Charles+Dellon&source=bl&ots=dL-uZqq9dj&sig=0GRJ9ZmdTgQmZS0H7J8BP40uZ7o&hl=en&ei=wcw_SpDCIY_EMfKwtLAO&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9 Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 20:03:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Gilbert Lawrence Some claim the Inquisition is past history for which current Christians are not responsible. They, need to browse the web for the hate-Christian web sites. Many of the anti-Christian riots last year across several states in India did not occur in a vacuum. More Christians likely were killed for their religion in those episodes (without charges and trial) last year than individuals killed for their religion in the over 350 years of Inquisition. http://www.cbcisite.com/cbcinews2821.htm Mario responds: I would like Gilbert to disprove the claim that the Inquisition is past history for which current Christians are not responsible. I looked in vain in for any evidence that the Inquisition had anything to do with Christians being attacked in India the last couple of years, or to support Gilbert's assertion, "More Christians likely were killed for their religion in those episodes (without charges and trial) last year than individuals killed for their religion in the over 350 years of Inquisition." Then I noticed the adjective "likely" and began to realize that this was just another trademark Gilbert straw man. Is this is the standard by which the Inquisition should be discussed, or obfuscated, as we have seen in this forum? The web site Gilbert has cited has this paragraph, "While the Orissa Government has acknowledged only 32 riot related deaths, he said an affidavit containing names of 75 killed have already been submitted to the Supreme Court by the Christian organisations."
Re: [Goanet] The Inquisition Trinity
In the post appended below, Gilbert has deliberately distorted my earlier post in this thread. He has cherry-picked sentences and truncated them around his own name to make himself the center of attention. After intentionally excising the facts that I had provided in that post he is comically asking me now to provide those facts. Please refer to my original untruncated and undoctored post in the link below to learn about the facts that I had stated: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-June/179079.html Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 6/21/09, Gilbert Lawrence wrote: > > The topic of this thread as clearly > seen from its title is Inquisition and the 'Trinity'. > To help Santosh, his post should have been, "I disagree > with Gilbert's post on several fronts"... and then go on to > post his own set of facts and information. > Please add to this discussion with facts (if you have > any). > Gilbert - is not the topic of this thread, however much > you may like to change the subject. > > Regards, GL > > > Santosh Helekar > > I don't know how Gilbert knows that his "writings" are less > deserving of condemnation that those of the three > individuals . > Neither Gilbert nor Noronha appears likely to have more > authentic knowledge about Goan inquisition than them. > Is Gilbert claiming that > Is he also claiming that historical figures > Gilbert is right to point out, > It is unlikely that Gilbert has access to more accurate and > better information about the inquisition than the > eyewitnesses and historians listed above. > >
[Goanet] The Inquisition Trinity
The topic of this thread as clearly seen from its title is Inquisition and the 'Trinity'. To help Santosh, his post should have been, "I disagree with Gilbert's post on several fronts"... and then go on to post his own set of facts and information. Please add to this discussion with facts (if you have any). Gilbert - is not the topic of this thread, however much you may like to change the subject. Regards, GL Santosh Helekar I don't know how Gilbert knows that his "writings" are less deserving of condemnation that those of the three individuals . Neither Gilbert nor Noronha appears likely to have more authentic knowledge about Goan inquisition than them. Is Gilbert claiming that Is he also claiming that historical figures Gilbert is right to point out, It is unlikely that Gilbert has access to more accurate and better information about the inquisition than the eyewitnesses and historians listed above.
Re: [Goanet] The Inquisition
The following post of Gilbert contains inane falsehoods. Without knowing, understanding or remembering anything about what Fr. Basilio Monteiro and I have read and written, he is fabricating imaginary nonsense or confabulating from his failing memory. Basilio will likely ignore his garbage. But let me point out his bogus assertions below: "Santosh, the only person who responded to up my posts was doing so without reading any books other than web-browsing, a source which I also use. To me the web's multiple articles/ perspectives is one useful tool – no different than going to a library. But what surprised me was Santosh did not have and had not read even Pirolkar's book, though he referred to him extensively. I find his recent statement interesting. He insists Pirolkar is a historian, after most likely still not reading his book, nor what others have described as Pirolkar's works, interest and occupation. So suddenly Santosh's purist/scientific mindset is out of the window.d had not read even Pirolkar's book, though he referred to him extensively." Gilbert Lawrence The truth is I have read several scholarly monographs and articles from peer-reviewed journals on the Goan Inquisition and the inquisition period, especially in relation to the medical history of Goa and Garcia d’Orta. I obtained this material in the libraries of Rice University, University of Texas, Hunter College and Texas Medical Center. Indeed, Basilio is aware of my efforts to obtain an original reference to an autopsy on St. Francis Xavier from the dusty archives of the Hunter College library in New York City. I have provided on Goanet many of these references upon request by Gilbert and/or others. Gilbert has now forgotten about these references or is deliberately distorting what I have done. Regarding Priolkar, Gilbert’s claims that I have cited him extensively without reading his book, and that he is not a historian are humbug. I may have referred once to a single quote from his book given by some other scholarly author such as J. M. de Figueiredo or S. K. Pandya. That he was a historian is widely recognized by historians such as Teotonio D’Souza and Gerald M. Moser. Besides the book on Goan inquisition, he has written at least one other scholarly book on the history of the printing press in India. His writings have been cited extensively by historians and scholars interested in Goa. Given these indisputable facts and the fact that Gilbert has provided false information about me on Goanet, I would like to ask him the following questions: 1. What facts support Gilbert’s claim that Anant Priolkar is not a historian? 2. Has Gilbert read Priolkar’s book on the Goan inquisition? 3. What books and/or articles has Gilbert read on the Goan Inquisition? Can he list their titles and authors? 4. What assertions and facts stated by Alfredo de Mello and A. K. Priolkar would Gilbert want to refute or dispute, and on what basis? 5. Since he is asking Goanetters to condemn people like de Mello and Priolkar, and requesting "hard facts" from Goan "experts", how would he recognize what are the hard facts and who are the Goan experts? 6. What criteria would he use to condemn people on Goanet? In my opinion, if Gilbert does not answer the above basic questions about his beliefs and biases, and about sources, or lack thereof, of his knowledge and opinions, it should be much harder for people to take him seriously on this or any other issue, except radiation oncology. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 6/21/09, Gilbert Lawrence wrote: > > Fr. Monetiro's recent post was a platitudinous > dissertation on History and the Inquisition without a > solitary factual iota; of what most likely he was (or should > have been) taught in a scientific / non-biased > manner, during his years of priesthood training in Goa. > Goanet moderators are certainly not known to block posts > related to Goa. If facts are not known, then factual and > opinionated statements made by the likes of Alfredo De Mello > (in Memoirs of Goa) should be condemned, instead of he being > showered with praises from the Goa elite. We cannot blame > the Hindutva blogs after Goan Catholics have provided them > the fodder. > > So Indians (Catholics and Hindus) are left with reading the > blogs from the Hindutva sources whose writings are culled > from Western and Goan writers, which as Fred Noronha has > shown have for a minimum an ax to grind, and most likely > have little hard data to base their opinions on. So can > the Goan experts provide some hard facts instead of going > AWOL (absent without leave)? Clearly individuals like > Sapna and others are thirsting for information on Goa's > Inquisition and have only "the Rough Guide" to go by. > Intellectual platitudes can only go so far. If manpower is > needed, a young dynamic student / seminarian can work on the > project under the guidance of a professor.:=)) That is how > it is done i
[Goanet] The Inquisition
My first interest in this topic started with the many Inquisition posts on Goanet, mostly by Goan Catholics. But as a history buff, most of what I read were pontificating opinions with very little hard data - nature of crimes, number of victims, quotes of contemporary writers, etc etc. So clearly I was missing something. Some may remember, several years ago my repeated requests on Goanet requesting postings of "hard facts" on the Goa-Inquisition. I also wrote privately to these posters. There was one response. Few of the opinon-makers suggested possible sources, where I may have better luck with actual data. This confirmed my suspicion that there was a fair amount of hot-air on this topic on Goanet. Santosh, the only person who responded to up my posts was doing so without reading any books other than web-browsing, a source which I also use. To me the web's multiple articles/ perspectives is one useful tool - no different than going to a library. But what surprised me was Santosh did not have and had not read even Pirolkar's book, though he referred to him extensively. I find his recent statement interesting. He insists Pirolkar is a historian, after most likely still not reading his book, nor what others have described as Pirolkar's works, interest and occupation. So suddenly Santosh's purist / scientific mindset is out of the window. Fr. Monetiro's recent post was a platitudinous dissertation on History and the Inquisition without a solitary factual iota; of what most likely he was (or should have been) taught in a scientific / non-biased manner, during his years of priesthood training in Goa. Goanet moderators are certainly not known to block posts related to Goa. If facts are not known, then factual and opinionated statements made by the likes of Alfredo De Mello (in Memoirs of Goa) should be condemned, instead of he being showered with praises from the Goa elite. We cannot blame the Hindutva blogs after Goan Catholics have provided them the fodder. So Indians (Catholics and Hindus) are left with reading the blogs from the Hindutva sources whose writings are culled from Western and Goan writers, which as Fred Noronha has shown have for a minimum an ax to grind, and most likely have little hard data to base their opinions on. So can the Goan experts provide some hard facts instead of going AWOL (absent without leave)? Clearly individuals like Sapna and others are thirsting for information on Goa's Inquisition and have only "the Rough Guide" to go by. Intellectual platitudes can only go so far. If manpower is needed, a young dynamic student / seminarian can work on the project under the guidance of a professor.:=)) That is how it is done in other academic fields. Regards, GL - Frederick [FN] Noronha How should the current-day Goan position himself/herself vis a vis the rivalries of the past (which have, in significant measure, lead to the building of the Black Legend about Portuguese Goa, the Inquisition in Goa, etc) I would not see things in terms of Them (the Dutch, the Protestants, the Jews, the Hindutva lobby) versus Us (the Catholics or 'Portuguese side' of the story). At best we are only the section that gets hit as part of the collateral damage of these myths in today's world. The challenge is to build a post-colonial understanding that doesn't get caught up in mere side-taking, but in building an independent perspective (to whatever extent this is possible) that is both accurate and not caught up in the colonial (and other) rivalries of the past.
Re: [Goanet] The Inquisition
Again, some difference of opinion How should the current-day Goan position himself/herself vis a vis the rivalries of the past (which have, in significant measure, lead to the building of the Black Legend about Portuguese Goa, the Inquisition in Goa, etc)? I would not see things in terms of Them (the Dutch, the Protestants, the Jews, the Hindutva lobby) versus Us (the Catholics or 'Portuguese side' of the story). At best we are only the section that gets hit as part of the collateral damage of these myths in today's world. We were never intended to be part of the story, at least not until the 20th century, when local electoral rivalries entered the phase, and the post-1961 dynamics came into play. The challenge is to build a post-colonial understanding that doesn't get caught up in mere side-taking, but in building an independent perspective (to whatever extent this is possible) that is both accurate and not caught up in the colonial (and other) rivalries of the past. FN 2009/6/21 Gilbert Lawrence : > Not long ago, a poster from Holland wrote to me > privately requesting information on the inquisition > in Goa. I asked the poster if she had researched > the atrocities of the Dutch in its colonies; of which > we only know only a little, when we read about > Fr. Joseph Vaz in Ceylon. She declined to continue > the dialog. I guess this is the modern day version > of the Dutch-Portuguese animosity, which still is alive. -- FN * http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com http://twitter.com/fn M +91-9822122436 P +91-832-2409490
Re: [Goanet] The Inquisition
Not long ago, a poster from Holland wrote to me privately requesting information on the inquisition in Goa. I asked the poster if she had researched the atrocities of the Dutch in its colonies; of which we only know only a little, when we read about Fr. Joseph Vaz in Ceylon. She declined to continue the dialog. I guess this is the modern day version of the Dutch-Portuguese animosity, which still is alive. It is my understanding that the Dutch stole the science behind ship building from the Portuguese. Perhaps someone can shed light who / why on the Portuguese traitor who passed on those ship designs to the North Europeans. I am also most intrigued by the veneration given to Dellon's writings. Yet if Dr. Charles Dellon TODAY committed the same offense in USA, he would permanently loose his medical license (for having a sexual relation with his patient), and be literally sued for all he is worth. Every year tens-of-thousand of doctors are sued in the USA (for thousands to a million + dollars) and more than a thousand physicians loose their medical license for professional misconduct. http://jrsm.rsmjournals.com/cgi/content/full/97/5/211 http://www.health.state.ny.us/publications/1445/ Regards, GL --- Frederick [FN] Noronha I made these comments particularly in the case of Buchanan, Dellon and Priolkar. Even for someone not defensive about the record of Christianity or the Catholic Church, the role of these much-cited authors on the Inquisition is intriguing to say the least. At the same time, much of our understanding of the Inquisition, I would argue, is based on the attitudes (far from neutral or un-interested) of the Protestant world, Jews, the North European rivals of (then powerful) South European colonialism, and, more latterly, the Hindutva world view. Yet, one needs to keep in mind the logic of "who said what and why".
Re: [Goanet] The Inquisition Trinity
--- On Sat, 6/20/09, Gilbert Lawrence wrote: > > It is nice to know that the members of the 'The Inquisition > Trinity' named by Fred, none of them is a historian. > Yet individuals who condemned my writings were > referring (without reading) the writings of these > individuals whom Fred gave a good expose. > I don't know how Gilbert knows that his "writings" are less deserving of condemnation that those of the three individuals selectively referred to by Frederick Noronha in an arbitrary and misleading manner. Neither Gilbert nor Noronha appears likely to have more authentic knowledge about Goan inquisition than them. Is Gilbert claiming that Anant Kakba Priolkar who wrote "The Goa Inquisition, Being a Quatercentenary Commemoration Study of the Inquisition in India", a book published by Bombay University Press, is not a historian? Is he also claiming that historical figures who visited Goa during the inquisition period or little later, namely Charles Dellon and Claudius Buchanan did not witness or learn what they were writing about? Gilbert is right to point out, however, the distortion of selective reporting engaged in by Frederick Noronha. Noronha misled readers into believing that there were only three sources for historical accounts about the Goan inquisition. Gilbert rightly provided Alfred de Mello's article that gives several 19th century or prior descriptions of the inquisition. The historians and eyewitnesses referred to by de Mello, which Noronha ignored, are: Teófilo Braga Judges Magalhães and Lousada Ferdinand Denis Joao Felix Pereira Coelho da Rocha J.C. Barreto Miranda Alexandre Herculano Alfred Demersay It is unlikely that Gilbert has access to more accurate and better information about the inquisition than the eyewitnesses and historians listed above. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] The Inquisition Trinity
2009/6/20 Gilbert Lawrence > By selecting the title as "Trinity", likely Fred > was constrained to refer to only three names > often quoted by the Goa-Inquisition bashers. > However if one surfs the web for the hate-Goa > (specially hate-Christian) sites, one > encounters several other names excluded > from "The Inquisition trinity" I do not believe that what one could call the Black Legend about the Inquisition in Goa should be portrayed as "hate-Goa" or "hate-Christian". This doesn't do justice to the debate, and the wider issues involved. As I see it, this centuries-old debate is simply inaccurate, exaggerated and politically-motivated. As was the case with the Black Legend created about Spain by the Dutch, for instance. What is probably also true is that a number of well-intentioned, waiting-to-make-amends individuals might have also bought into this depicition of the Inquisition, specially at times when it was not possible to get counter-views that challenge such a portrayal. I'm more concerned about its political deployment in current times, specially since the 1960s particularly and Priolkar's work, because this is something which markedly affects our understanding of Goa and equations here. FN -- FN * http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com http://twitter.com/fn M +91-9822122436 P +91-832-2409490 http://fredericknoronha.multiply.com/ http://goa1556.goa-india.org "If you would lift me up you must be on higher ground." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
[Goanet] The Inquisition Trinity
By selecting the title as "Trinity", likely Fred was constrained to refer to only three names often quoted by the Goa-Inquisition bashers. However if one surfs the web for the hate-Goa (specially hate-Christian) sites, one encounters several other names excluded from "The Inquisition trinity". A listing can be obtained for the many already existing 'well researched' blogs about the Inquisition in Goa one of which is: http://www.dightonrock.com/inquisition_goa.htm The link shows the publicity given to events in Goa based on history from "historians". These include Memoirs of Goa authored by Alfred de Mello; who was much feted on Goan web-sites and celebrated in Goa last year. The Joao Felix Pereira is another author in the web-page . He states about Goa "thousands of victims died at the stake in flames" (Historia de Portugal, 3rd edition, pg 235). The same claim is made by some on Goanet repeatedly. The problem with Pereira's account is the "thousand of victims died at the stake in flames" is not corroborated by any document researched by contemporary historians. I find it interesting that as a history buff, when I was pursuing and analyzing the writings on Goanet and elsewhere, about the much talked about Goa's Inquisition, I was pilloried with claims that I was no historian. I am sure the authors of these posts and the many seasoned goanetters remember those posts. It is nice to know that the members of the 'The Inquisition Trinity' named by Fred, none of them is a historian. Yet individuals who condemned my writings were referring (without reading) the writings of these individuals whom Fred gave a good expose. Regards, GL - Frederick Noronha I've long wondered over the identity and ideology of a small set of people who have shaped the globe's understanding of the Goa Inquisition. Recently, coming across more critical views[1] that challenges our traditional understanding of the Inquisition only made one more puzzled.
[Goanet] The Inquisition trinity
I've long wondered over the identity and ideology of a small set of people who have shaped the globe's understanding of the Goa Inquisition. Recently, coming across more critical views[1] that challenges our traditional understanding of the Inquisition only made one more puzzled. About Anant Kakba Priolkar, it is a bit of a puzzle to understand the man and his ideas, perhaps because of the fact that he wrote around the 1960s, and often in Marathi. I wish I had been more fluent in that language! Priolkar's book "The Goa Inquisition: The Terrible Tribunal for the East" was published in 1961, and printed at the Bombay University Press (Fort, Bombay). It was reprinted by a private firm in Goa this year. In between, the Hindutva-oriented Delhi-based Voice of India press published a second impression in 1991. To understand the VoI's ideology, google for a list of books published by it, or check the Geocities page here [2] Historian Dr Teotonio R de Souza writes: A.K. Priolkar was a Bombay-based Goan Saraswat Brahmin who produced literary output as linguist and historian in the 1960s. His research served to buttress pro-Marathi and pro-Hindu interests. he emphasized the excesses of [the] Inquisition and the cultural backwardness of Goan Christians and their Conkani 'dialect'. He reserved to Marathi the distinction of being the true literary and cultural language of Goa I wish to classify this type of writings as "Priolkar-Angle literature". [3] One may not agree with some of the categorisations above, but that's hint enough about the interest-groups who give current-day fuel to the Inquisition flames. (The Angle being referred to is Prabhakar Angle, who represented one particular perspective on Goa, like many of us have our own perspectives or biases.) In his book, Priolkar relies heavily on the accounts of Buchanan and Dellon, the latter who lived through the Inquisition. Who were these persons, really? Dig a little and one finds that Claudius Buchanan (1766-1815) was "a Scottish theologian, an ordained minister of the Church of England, and an extremely 'low church' missionary for the Church Missionary Society." [4] Nothing wrong with that, of course. But for more interesting insights, you need to go here [5]. Keep reading around these pages, as it's not easy to capture the essence of a book in a few cut-and-paste paragraphs here. We learn, among other things, that Buchanan "resorted to a simple juxtaposition to demonstrate the superiority of rational Christian life to a morally repugnant Hindu culture. Christianity and Hinduism were [to him] inverse reflections of one another, but Christianity had demonstrated its effects and the civilizing power to overcome all the crimes and superstitions that tormented India." His "encounters" while touring India are interesting too. He meets native Syrian Christian communities along southwestern India's coast, who trace their lineage to a legendary first-century visit by Jesus' own apostle, Thomas. Buchanan wanted to see the Syrian branch transplanted on the Church of England. He visits Roman Catholic populations in the south, and is shocked to find priests "better acquainted with the Veda of Brahma than with the Gospel of Christ". His encounter with the Inquisition is described from page 91 onwards of the book Was Hinduism invented? [5] by Brian Kemble Pennington. As Priolkar mentions, he visited Goa at the time when British troops were stationed here. (Or, in Priolkar's words, "The forts in the harbour of Goa, were then occupied by British troops [two King's regiments, and two regiments of Native infrantry] to prevent its falling into the hands of the French.") Author Brian Kemble Pennington says Buchanan's "resulting account of Catholicism in India included not only clerical abuse, empty ritual, moral laxity, and papal tyranny, but even a hint of human sacrifice." Interestingly, Buchanan was "not less indignant at the Inquisition of Goa, than I had been with the temple of Juggernaut" (sic) In author Brian Kemble Pennington's view: The corpus of Buchanan's writing reveals that his chief object was not the extermination of Hinduism, but the conquest of the idolatrous religious culture that infected both Hinduism and Christianity in India. His crusade for a rational, evangelical, and imperial Anglical establishment there was part of his iconoclastic and anti-clerical campaign against the idols and priests that held India in their grip In Buchanan's dispensational grasp of Indian idolatry, Hindus, Syrian Christians, and Roman Catholics laboured under an enslavement to idols and the priestcraft that administered, mediated, and embodied their power. Anglican external forms, on the other hand, he s
[Goanet] The Inquisition... another point of view
I have always been intrigued why Goans, and I include intelligent Goans (Catholic and Hindus), have a difficult time with the Goan Inquisition. I had my own theory for their difficulty to understand the Inquisition. Yet, this was well articulated by Prof Thomas Madden, in the article posted on this forum by Fred Noronha. More specifically to my theory, most Goans, including some authorities, view the Inquisition as only an "institution" issue. But Prof Madden states below in the very first paragraph of his article. He describes the two components of the Inquisition. In addition to the "institution", the history relates to "a period of time." Everything that happened in this "period of time", related or unrelated to the "institution" is considered "The Inquisition". This specially applied to Goa where during this "period of time" there were 1. Incessant wars with the Muslim Sultanates and later Dutch and British. 2. Population migration, (native and European). 3. Intrigue, double dealing in trade and treaties. 4. Spies, traitors and army deserters. 5. Famine, endemic diseases, appalling social practices. All the above occurred in what today would be described both literally and figuratively as "the melting pot" of Goa. So why do we view the Inquisition merely in the context of an "institution"? Because as Goans and non-Goans, many love to play the 'gottcha' game. And few love to recycle the "same old stuff" from 'intriguing' posts. I would strongly urge all Goans especially Catholics to read the article of Prof Madden. Some Goans present themselves as intellectuals and 'independent thinkers', by merely spouting the role of the Catholic Church in the Inquisition. As usual they have a lot of opinions with few hard facts. Many Hindutva writers state the "institutional linkage" with no mention in their writings (in print and on the web) of the "period of time". Thus were the prisons of the Inquisition period in Goa any different from the Muslim Sultanate prisons in Bijapur and Ahmednagar etc, or those of Hyder Ali and Tipu Sultan in Mysore; or the prisons of the Hindu Vijayanagar kingdom at Hampi? Similarly, one could compare the condition of Goa's prisons to the standards of the time in Europe. In fact the appalling (pest infested) conditions of the Inquisition prisons may not be very different from some Indian prisons today. When it comes to capital punishment in the Inquisition period, England had hanging, boiling, and decapitation, The French had the guillotine and the Iberian countries had the burning at the stake. It would be interesting to know the forms of capital punishment in the various Indian kingdoms. Any enlightenment would be welcome. Please compare the number of people subject to capital punishment in Goa during the entire period of the Inquisition to what went on in England in the link below. This may be comparing apples and oranges, but it does give the readers that capital punishment was a common form of punishment in that period of history. From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_Kingdom Under the reign of Henry VIII some 72,000 people are estimated to have been executed by various methods [citation needed] including boiling, burning at the stake, decapitation and hanging, sometimes with the added punishment of drawing and quartering while still alive. Sir Samuel Romilly, speaking to the House of Commons on capital punishment in 1810, declared that "…[there is] no country on the face of the earth in which there [have] been so many different offences according to law to be punished with death as in England." Known as the "Bloody Code", at its height the criminal law included some 220 crimes punishable by death, including "being in the company of Gypsies for one month", "strong evidence of malice in a child aged 7–14 years of age" and "blacking the face or using a disguise whilst committing a crime". Many of these offences had been introduced to protect the property of the wealthy classes that emerged during the first half of the eighteenth century, a notable example being the Black Act of 1723, which created 50 capital offences for various acts of theft and poaching. Whilst executions for murder, burglary and robbery were common, the death sentences for minor offenders were often not carried out. However, children were commonly executed for such minor crimes as stealing. A sentence of death could be commuted or respited (permanently postponed) for reasons such as benefit of clergy, official pardons, pregnancy of the offender or performance of military or naval duty[1] Between 1770 and 1830, 35,000 death sentences were handed down in England and Wales, but only 7,000 executions were carried out.[2] - I hope in future, Goans will forward links to the Prof Madden article, accompanying the links of Jewish, Dutch or British (Protestant) sources, espec
[Goanet] The Inquisition... another point of view
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:47:54 +0530 From: "Frederick \"FN\" Noronha" >From a Conservative journal, but raises some interesting issues here. FN June 18, 2004, 10:26 a.m. The Real Inquisition Investigating the popular myth. By Thomas F. Madden Excerpt: The Inquisition was not born out of desire to crush diversity or oppress people; it was rather an attempt to stop unjust executions. Yes, you read that correctly. Heresy was a crime against the state. Roman law in the Code of Justinian made it a capital offense. Rulers, whose authority was believed to come from God, had no patience for heretics. Neither did common people, who saw them as dangerous outsiders who would bring down divine wrath. When someone was accused of heresy in the early Middle Ages, they were brought to the local lord for judgment, just as if they had stolen a pig or damaged shrubbery (really, it was a serious crime in England). Yet in contrast to those crimes, it was not so easy to discern whether the accused was really a heretic. For starters, one needed some basic theological training ? something most medieval lords sorely lacked. The result is that uncounted thousands across Europe were executed by secular authorities without fair trials or a competent assessment of the validity of the charge. The Catholic Church's response to this problem was the Inquisition, first instituted by Pope Lucius III in 1184. It was born out of a need to provide fair trials for accused heretics using laws of evidence and presided over by knowledgeable judges. From the perspective of secular authorities, heretics were traitors to God and the king and therefore deserved death. From the perspective of the Church, however, heretics were lost sheep who had strayed from the flock. As shepherds, the pope and bishops had a duty to bring them back into the fold, just as the Good Shepherd had commanded them. So, while medieval secular leaders were trying to safeguard their kingdoms, the Church was trying to save souls. The Inquisition provided a means for heretics to escape death and return to the community. [end of excerpt] Mario responds: This looks like a classic example of how historians can revise history any way they want to. Unfortunately, they often provide clues to their own duplicity. In the case of Thomas F. Madden, we find the clue in one telling sentence, "The result is that uncounted thousands across Europe were executed by secular authorities without fair trials or a competent assessment of the validity of the charge." Thomas Madden asks us to believe that evil "secular" authorities were executing Christian heretics without "fair" trials. Now, I ask you. Why would a "secular" authority be bothered with a religious Christian heretic?
Re: [Goanet] The Inquisition
2009/6/17 Gilbert Lawrence Thanks for allowing me to share my thoughts with you. I find Fred's > question interesting - "Can anyone > enlighten about the ideologies and interests of the repeated-cited authors of > the Goa Inquisition?" I > hope the authors can be upfront in responding to this question. Thank you I made these comments particularly in the case of Buchanan, Dellon and Priolkar. Even for someone not defensive about the record of Christianity or the Catholic Church, the role of these much-cited authors on the Inquisition is intriguing to say the least. At the same time, much of our understanding of the Inquisition, I would argue, is based on the attitudes (far from neutral or un-interested) of the Protestant world, Jews, the North European rivals of (then powerful) South European colonialism, and, more latterly, the Hindutva world view. Of course, this is not to say that such lobbies and interest groups cannot or should not take the stance which suits their interests. After all, the Inquisition itself was staunchly a Catholic product of a particular point of history, and that too connected to the powerful South European colonial structures of the period. Yet, one needs to keep in mind the logic of "who said what and why". I find it amusing that the writings on the Inquisition are taken as the Gospel truth (pun intended!) as it were. For some time now, since reading up about the Black Legend, I've been interested in understanding the logic of this debate. Thanks for raising it here, so that I could further search around for more ideas on this front. And apologies for not responding when the issue was 'hot' as I was travelling and returned from Penang only yesterday morning. Here's an interesting quote that helps us understand some of the background: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Legend#The_Spanish_Inquisition Quote Exaggerations about the Spanish Inquisition have been one of the main elements of the Black Legend since its origin. Its incorporation into anti-Spanish works dates from the sixteenth century, a time of strong Anglo-Spanish and Protestant-Catholic rivalry. Criticisms of the Spanish Inquisition were first written by Protestant authors such as Englishman John Foxe, a polemicist who published the Book of Martyrs in 1554, and the controversial Spanish convert Reginaldo González de Montes, author of Exposición de algunas mañas de la Santa Inquisición Española (Exposition of some methods of the Holy Spanish Inquisition) (1567). The fabricated legend depicts the Spanish Inquisition as cruel and bloodthirsty. The image of moats, chains, cries and rooms of torture is usually attached to it with the intention of creating a sense of mysticism and evil. The myth of thousands of Jews, Muslims, Protestants and non-Catholics being tortured and murdered in the dungeons of the institution by Dominican friars is part of this propaganda. In fact, the Inquisition was a religious institution created by the Spanish monarchy to monitor Christian principles and teachings within the Catholic Church. It was not an institution of persecution or torture as the Black Legend intentionally portrays, or as fictional literature and films depict. Similar religious institutions existed in other parts of Europe, such as the Roman Inquisition and the Portuguese Inquisition. The first such institution was the Medieval Inquisition, created in the 12th century. Legally, the inquisition only had jurisdiction over Catholics and claimed no authority over Jews or Muslims. However, a person who had been baptized into the Catholic faith who was found to be secretly practicing Jewish or Muslim customs was still considered to be a Catholic culpable of heresy - and punishable under the law. Like similar European policies before and after the 15th century, the Alhambra Decree removed the Jews from Spain in 1492, while a decree in 1515 removed the last Muslims. End of quote -- FN * http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com http://twitter.com/fn M +91-9822122436 P +91-832-2409490 http://fredericknoronha.multiply.com/ http://goa1556.goa-india.org "I get to go to lots of overseas places, like Canada." - Britney Spears, Pop Singer
Re: [Goanet] The Inquisition
Hi Maurice and Fred, Hope you did not mind my comments to your post on Goanet. I have not followed all tit-bits of information on the Inquisition in Europe; as I follow regarding the same history in Goa. Yet from the little I know, long before the Inquisition was introduced in Europe, there was a related history that pre-dated it. I will just make three points in relation to what you posted below, which are not mentioned in your post. Nothing in history occurs in isolation. These points are historical occurrences and I am not passing a moral judgment on them. 1. The Spanish monarchs Isabella and Ferdinand, warred with and finally ejected the Moors out of Spain. One of the major reason the Moors were able to be entrenched in Spain was because of the support of native Jews; who prospered (perhaps at the expense of the rest) due to the largess of and relationship with the Muslims. How much of this mind-set, on the part of both Catholics AND Jews, was transferred to the Spanish / Portuguese colonies cannot be ignored. In fact the Jews were sheltered by the Catholics in Italy; but not in Spain / Portugal. This suggest the animosity was related to history and geography rather than religion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabella_of_Castile Jewish-Muslim links in the Portuguese pockets in India must have certainly been intriguing. Trading with the enemies has its big rewards, but also carried big risks. I have not read in the writings of the period in Goa identifying / segregating subset of the Goan population as Jews and Crypto Jews. It is only now that some are claiming victim-hood and identifying themselves as 'special targets'. 2. The socio-economic environment in Europe prior to the period of the Inquisition. Perhaps the best book I can recommend you and others to read is about (preferably the autobiography of) Girolamo Savonarola. A glimpse of this period of history can be seen in the wikipedia of this monk. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savonarola . Such anti-lack-of-morality crusade came to Goa with the European priests; and translated into the working of the Inquisition is an important feature. We know this was the thinking of Francis Xavier. Hindus have a difficult time understanding why would the Inquisition be introduced (to Goa or for that matter to Europe) to persecute the Catholics? So it is easy (in fact so logical) for Hindus to frame the Inquisition as an anti-Hindu action; and for Jews to frame it as an Anti-Jewish action. Yet the largest group that was penalized because of 'guilt by association' was the European religious orders. They were summarily expelled from Goa EN MASS, during the Inquisition for political-economic reasons. 3. Now we know that much of what REALLY happened in Europe (famine, severe weather changes, epidemics, droughts, plagues, etc), pre- and during the Inquisition period was related to weather changes. This is now officially called the "Little Ice Age". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age Thanks for allowing me to share my thoughts with you. I find Fred's question interesting - "Can anyone enlighten about the ideologies and interests of the repeated-cited authors of the Goa Inquisition?" I hope the authors can be upfront in responding to this question. Thank you. Regards, GL - Frederick Noronha I sometimes suspect that the term "Inquisition" is played up by a set of interests who would like to create a contemporary Inquisition -- this time based on political interest, and communal ideologies. Can anyone enlighten about the ideologies and interests of the repeated-cited authors of the Goa Inquisition? Yours provocatively, FN --- MD The Roman Inquisition aimed at eradicating Protestantism throughout Italy, although by the end of the sixteenth century, it primarily dealt with crimes of witchcraft, magic, clerical discipline and Judaizing.
[Goanet] The Inquisition... another point of view
>From a Conservative journal, but raises some interesting issues here. FN June 18, 2004, 10:26 a.m. The Real Inquisition Investigating the popular myth. By Thomas F. Madden When the sins of the Catholic Church are recited (as they so often are) the Inquisition figures prominently. People with no interest in European history know full well that it was led by brutal and fanatical churchmen who tortured, maimed, and killed those who dared question the authority of the Church. The word "Inquisition" is part of our modern vocabulary, describing both an institution and a period of time. Having one of your hearings referred to as an "Inquisition" is not a compliment for most senators. But in recent years the Inquisition has been subject to greater investigation. In preparation for the Jubilee in 2000, Pope John Paul II wanted to find out just what happened during the time of the Inquisition's (the institution's) existence. In 1998 the Vatican opened the archives of the Holy Office (the modern successor to the Inquisition) to a team of 30 scholars from around the world. Now at last the scholars have made their report, an 800-page tome that was unveiled at a press conference in Rome on Tuesday. Its most startling conclusion is that the Inquisition was not so bad after all. Torture was rare and only about 1 percent of those brought before the Spanish Inquisition were actually executed. As one headline read "Vatican Downsizes Inquisition." The amazed gasps and cynical sneers that have greeted this report are just further evidence of the lamentable gulf that exists between professional historians and the general public. The truth is that, although this report makes use of previously unavailable material, it merely echoes what numerous scholars have previously learned from other European archives. Among the best recent books on the subject are Edward Peters's Inquisition (1988) and Henry Kamen's The Spanish Inquisition (1997), but there are others. Simply put, historians have long known that the popular view of the Inquisition is a myth. So what is the truth? To understand the Inquisition we have to remember that the Middle Ages were, well, medieval. We should not expect people in the past to view the world and their place in it the way we do today. (You try living through the Black Death and see how it changes your attitude.) For people who lived during those times, religion was not something one did just at church. It was science, philosophy, politics, identity, and hope for salvation. It was not a personal preference but an abiding and universal truth. Heresy, then, struck at the heart of that truth. It doomed the heretic, endangered those near him, and tore apart the fabric of community. The Inquisition was not born out of desire to crush diversity or oppress people; it was rather an attempt to stop unjust executions. Yes, you read that correctly. Heresy was a crime against the state. Roman law in the Code of Justinian made it a capital offense. Rulers, whose authority was believed to come from God, had no patience for heretics. Neither did common people, who saw them as dangerous outsiders who would bring down divine wrath. When someone was accused of heresy in the early Middle Ages, they were brought to the local lord for judgment, just as if they had stolen a pig or damaged shrubbery (really, it was a serious crime in England). Yet in contrast to those crimes, it was not so easy to discern whether the accused was really a heretic. For starters, one needed some basic theological training — something most medieval lords sorely lacked. The result is that uncounted thousands across Europe were executed by secular authorities without fair trials or a competent assessment of the validity of the charge. The Catholic Church's response to this problem was the Inquisition, first instituted by Pope Lucius III in 1184. It was born out of a need to provide fair trials for accused heretics using laws of evidence and presided over by knowledgeable judges. From the perspective of secular authorities, heretics were traitors to God and the king and therefore deserved death. From the perspective of the Church, however, heretics were lost sheep who had strayed from the flock. As shepherds, the pope and bishops had a duty to bring them back into the fold, just as the Good Shepherd had commanded them. So, while medieval secular leaders were trying to safeguard their kingdoms, the Church was trying to save souls. The Inquisition provided a means for heretics to escape death and return to the community. As this new report confirms, most people accused of heresy by the Inquisition were either acquitted or their sentences suspended. Those found guilty of grave error were allowed to confess their sin, do penance, and be restored to the Body of Christ. The underlying assumption of the Inquisition was that, like lost sheep, heretics had simply strayed. If, however, an inquisitor determined that a particular sheep had purposely left
[Goanet] The Inquisition...
I sometimes suspect that the term "Inquisition" is played up by a set of interests who would like to create a contemporary Inquisition -- this time based on political interest, and communal ideologies. We know the Dutch created a "black legend" about their colonial (and other) rivals, the Spanish [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Legend] Is there a similar playing out in this case too? While one needn't be defensive about the realities of the past, we also need to question how many of these "realities" reflect a realistic portrayal of what went on in those days. Can anyone enlighten about the ideologies and interests of the repeated-cited authors of the Goa Inquisition? Yours provocatively, FN -- FN * http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com http://twitter.com/fn M +91-9822122436 P +91-832-2409490 http://fredericknoronha.multiply.com/ http://goa1556.goa-india.org "Every time I look at you I get a fierce desire to be lonesome." - Oscar Levant
[Goanet] The Inquisition in Goa
For those interested in this area, there are many Inquisition and other related books at the link below: http://www.rbookshop.com/religion/i/Inquisition/Inquisition_Books_R.htm The Goa Inquisition may possibly feature in some of them. regards Sandeep
[Goanet] The Inquisition in Goa
Now that Sapna Shahani has stirred the soup on the Goan Inquisition, I like many others would like to know what the contents of the soup really are. Sapna I am sure will benefit from this too. I have read from time to time excerpts, posts, articles and short stories on the Inquistion in Goa. How much is true and how much fiction I do not know. I beg that someone like Dr. Teotonio de Souza the historian or Valmiki the expert researcher and writer or any one else who is up to it, writes a short series of articles about the Inquisition in Goa on Goanet like the "Good Bye Goa" we are currently reading. In case Dr Teo reacts by pointing out to the volumes he has written about it, I would say please Doctor, one more time with feeling. At the very least please point us to any credible historical account of it in a book that is easily available to readers to purchase. Thanks, Roland. -- Roland Francis http://roland-torontogoan.blogspot.com +1 (416) 453.3371
