[Goanet] UNDERSTANDING THE JESUITS IN GOA

2020-05-01 Thread Adolfo Mascarenhas
*GL

Referring  Message: 3 Message-ID: <
1584186758.63154.1588279942...@mail.yahoo.com> Of Thu, 30 Apr 2020 20:52:22
+ (UTC) in response  To Noronha

You both make the following SIX points

First *I agree that* the rise and the decline  of the Jesuits in Goa is a
complex story.?

Secondly,  Fr Naik does a good job in letting critical perspectives go
through.? He cites other Jesuit work (Dr Charles how SJs in past centuries
"bought lands, received donations and endow? In the process they became
powerful landlords and financiers."

Third GL responding states :” White plantocracy ( Is PLANTOCRACY a  mere
typo or did the SJ bexome Plantation Owners in Brazil as FN suggests.
Whether  Part of chasing away the natives from Goa and settling retired
white soldiers was colonial policy and had little to do with the
*Inquisition;* and really occurred before the Inquisition was introduced to
Goa.?

Fourth Unfortunately some historians and writers merge everything
together. *Yes
very much so and it would require serious research work *

Fifthly, religion and colonialism (Portugese , British, Dutch Spanish) go
to together by displacing the native population and acquiring their land
was the whole basis of colonialism  rewarded their soldiers with new land.

Sixth  Your view, ancestors of most present-day land-owners came to Goa in
the 18th century, after the White plutocracy left Goa for Brazil.? And much
of the conversion occurred in the 18th century rather than in the 16th
century.?

Feed-back welcomed
Regards, GL

*My ten cents bit is as follows*

First *I agree that* the rise and the decline  of the Jesuits in Goa is a
complex story? I hope that with the transport situation returning to Normal
I can purchase the two books on the Jesuits and also have an opportunity to
read the footnotes.

Secondly,  Fr Naik seems to suggest that the SJs became powerful, accruing
wealth, land, lending money etc could be that they became the new
PLUTOCRATS who did the same thing in Brazil and now in the 21 Century,  the
Brazilian head of State, an Italian migrant, wants to drive away all
Africans. Africans did not come to Brazil in rowing boats..they were taken
as SLAVES

Thirdly regarding :” White plantocracy ( Is PLANTOCRACY a  mere typo or did
the SJ beome Plantation Owners in Brazil as FN suggests.  Whether  Part of
chasing away the natives from Goa and settling retired white soldiers had
little to do with the *Inquisition;* and really occurred before the
Inquisition was introduced to Goa.?  My concern is the INQUISITION . The
Society was of Jesus and St Francis were simply not responsible.  Put the
blame on the DOMINICANS.  Jesus did not force anybody to follow him.

Fourth I agree that some historians and writers merge everything together. *Yes
very much so and it would require serious research work  The RC church keep
very good records of births deaths etc, It could be a lot of work
especially as the number of Portugee speaking Goans has declined  *

Fifthly, religion and colonialism (Portugese , British, Dutch Spanish) go
to together by displacing the native population and acquiring their land
was the whole basis of colonialism  rewarded their soldiers with new land.

I saw blatant examples of this in Zimbabwe….expecially after World War 11

 Sixth  Your view, ancestors of most present-day land-owners came to Goa in
the 18th century, after the White plutocracy left Goa for Brazil.? And much
of the conversion occurred in the 18th century rather than in the 16th
century.?

Seven your view that “” ancestors of most present-day land-owners came to
Goa in the 18th century, after the White plutocracy left Goa for Brazil.?
And much of the conversion occurred in the 18th century rather than in the
16th century.? Once again it is really a very mixed bag including what
happened in Quepem.

 Finally. A really burning and itching questions??

Why did the early Jesuits simply not want to hear of the Pre European
Catholics…and indeed destroy the records.Surely they heard about the epic
journey of Apostles Thomas and Bartholomew from Jerusalem through Persia,
Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bombay and possiby Goa (Betul)

Grandolfo

In Quepem


[Goanet] Understanding the Jesuits in Goa

2020-04-30 Thread Goanet Reader
Understanding the Jesuits in Goa

By Frederick Noronha
fredericknoron...@gmail.com

  They have been called the "schoolmasters of
  Europe".  For decades, if not centuries, this
  religious Order has played a key role in exchanging
  information, about science and plants, between
  India and Europe.  At times, they were
  conservatives, and at other times, they've been
  almost radical.  The Jesuits -- or Society of Jesus
  -- has also played a crucial, though sometimes
  challenged and critiqued, role in Goa as well.

So, it is not surprising to see a book titled 'Jesuits of the
Goa Province: A Historical Overview (1542-2000)' emerge on
the bookstands.  Even if this title may have not got the
attention it deserves, thanks to what seems to be like low
reading habits currently in Goa.

The book is authored by the veteran Jesuit, Gregory Naik SJ,
and has been published by Cinnamon Teal.  Naik served the
Jesuit Headquarters in Rome, the Jesuit Educational
Association for South Asia in New Delhi, and was also the SJ
(or Society of Jesus) Provincial in Goa itself.  Since 2009,
he established the Goa Jesuit Archives, and has been engaged
with it since despite his age and health.

The Jesuit link with Goa has been rather strong, from very
early times.  They first landed here in 1542.  That is very
early in the history of the Society, which was officially
founded only in 1540 itself, or barely two years earlier.

The Jesuits have played a role in shaping Goa's history,
though today they run only a handful of schools like Britto
in Mapusa and Loyola in Margao.  They lack a single college
in their Goa Jesuit Province (which extends, actually, quite
some way beyond the borders of Goa).  More on that latter

  Depending on how you see it, this can be quite an
  interesting book or an official version.  You may
  or may not be a fan of the Jesuits, but this book
  is packed with colourful information and useful
  facts.  Even if these pages are written by a Jesuit
  himself, it makes for an interesting read
  nonetheless.

How did the Jesuits land in Goa?  What was Goa like in the
1540s?  How did the Jesuit Province of Goa -- sometimes also
called the Province of India -- come about in 1549?  Is it
true that this was the first Jesuit Province outside of
Europe, and only the third after Portugal and Spain?  Or that
its this Goa-based provice's area spread from the southern
tip of Africa to Japan in the east?  Read and find out

The Jesuit story is rich and complex, and at times it is also
bizarre and unbelievable.  The geographical spread of the
Society -- even from their base in tiny Goa itself -- is just
one part of the meandering and often surprising story.  Their
achievements in various fields is another part of the story.

Recently, while working to comprehend the early linguistic
influences of Goa-linked individuals on India, I was
surprised to realise the extent of the role played by Jesuits
in fields such as Tamil (Fenicio, de Nobili), Sanskrit (Henry
Roth, de Nobili, Arnos Padiri or Ernest Hanxleden who
contributed to both Sanskrit and Malayalam); or Tamil
(Enrique Enriquez, Beschi) and of course in Konkani (Thomas
Stephens, who had in the late 20th century a Jesuit institute
named after him at Porvorim), just to name a few.

  They were astronomers (Matteo Ricci), and Claude
  Boudier and John Baptist Pons who helped the
  maharaja of Jaipur set up his famous astronomical
  observatory (jantar mantar), or explorers like
  Brother Bento Goes who travelled overland from
  Lahore to China via Kabul and others like
  Castiglione who was famous for his paintings of
  imperial horses in China.

And this is only the tip of the iceberg.  On reading books of
these kind, it becomes clear that tiny Goa has indeed played
a major role in global history, though it might not be
politically correct to say so in these times.

Jesuits shaped the churches of Goa, particularly those of
Ilhas (Tiswadi) and Salcete.  Besides, of course, some
prominent ones at Old Goa, as the scholar Christina Oswald
has pointed out elsewhere.  Page 29 lists all the many Goa
churches, built by the Jesuits -- about 20 in Tiswadi
(Azossim to Vanxim and a dozen and half in between), and 25
more in Salcete (from Assola to Benaulim, Betalbatim,
Cansaulim, to Varca, Vasco, Velsao and Verna, among others).

The rise and decline of the Jesuits in Goa is a complex
story.  Fr Naik does a good job in letting critical
perspectives go through.  He cites other Jesuit work (Dr
Charles Borges') to state how the Society of Jesus in past
centuries "bought lands, received donations and endowments
from pious lay folk, got a flourishing palm-grove business
going, sublet lands, accepted pawned goods and mortgages, and
helped the State with funds whenever the need arose.  In