Re: [Goanet] Why The Emigration?

[W.F.]

 WOW thats great God Bless 
On Sunday, January 24, 2021, 11:15:34 PM GMT+4, Gabe Menezes 
 wrote:  
 
 I am more than impressed!

I was born in Nairobi, Kenya. Went to London straight after school.  Joined
the RAF, left and joined Mitsui and Co, s major Japanese Trading Co. Left
and joined an USA Bank, in London, whose address was 1 Wall Street NYK.
Never looked back after that! Left them went to Saudi, with RIYADH BANK.
Finishing off working for a Saudi a prince. I'D do it all over again. I
retired @ 45. Amen.

On Sun, 24 Jan 2021, - A

> Reminiscent Tour.  2012; Goa,1556.]
> --
> FN* फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا‎ +91-9822122436
>
  

Re: [Goanet] Why The Emigration?

[Mervyn Lobo]

 On Sunday, January 24, 2021, 08:03:02 a.m. CST, Frederick Noronha 
 wrote:
 Why do Goans migrate? Just tried to list some reasons... let me know if you
feel some don't swim... FN

01 Aspiring to a better life, at times illusory
-snip-
101 Above all, it's a personal decision, something no logic


FN,The biggest reason Goans migrate is because they have a sense of adventure. 
Without that, you will remain in your parents house till the day you die. The 
more adventure there is in you, the stronger the call is.

Secondly, I had an ideal, pampered life in Tanzania when I decided to move. The 
unknown is more enticing than the known, to many. 

Lastly, Goa is always ready to embrace its prodigal sons. You can roam the 
umpteen seas - but will always be welcomed back. 

Mervyn



  

Re: [Goanet] Why The Emigration ....Indeed Lets Rethink...Beyond the Great Prof. Bowman

[Roland Francis]

Viva Adolfo!
See you back in Quepem.

Roland Francis
416-453-3371


> On Jan 24, 2021, at 6:31 AM, Adolfo Mascarenhas  wrote:
> 
> 
> Dear Goa Netter's, I promised a second Part about Diaspora based  In Message: 
> 6 Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2021 12:50:40 -0500
> From: Roland Francis 
> raises on the Subject: Re:in Goanet] [Newsletters]  Why The Emigration? 
> Message-ID: <6a9da9f3-fb94-484b-b005-aaa8a5b37...@gmail.com>
> 
> Let me Go back slightly and discuss the PANDEMIC and perhaps that harmful 
> fellow who  vacated WHITE HOUSE.  The Pandemic we are experiencing is not the 
> first. At the end of World War 1 you had gthe Spanish flu it killed more 
> people than the two World Wars including the two A-Bombs dropped over Japan. 
> :::
> 
> Why do I bring this up ;;;There was this great American President Woodrow 
> Wilson who felt that US should participate in World War I (!914-18) Everybody 
> suffered so the notion of the League of Nations came up. Wilson sailed  to 
> Europe but towards the end apparently lost his senses. His wife returned with 
> him and White House was ruled for several months  by a Petticoat President 
>  
> 
> What is the relevance ;;;World War II (1939-45) and creation of the UNITED 
> NATIONS.  Bowman, was a not a mere Geographer and author ... he held other 
> Portfolios  among others   Isaiah Bowman was President of the Johns Hopkins 
> University; former Director of the American Geographical Society; and above 
> all in our context  he was  
> the adviser to the United States Delegation at the San Francisco Conference. 
> Remember he understood the role of Japanese Pioneers in Peru ...Professor  
> was a very sensible fellowHe realized that there are deep psychological 
> changes wanting the good things of their former homelands and appreciation of 
> their new Homelands (Kenya, Tanganyika, Uganda or Zanzibar or Mozambique) ... 
> Politicians signing treaties do not realize this  Human beings called 
> Goans also bring a whole lot of personal feelings and group sentiments. So 
> some lie Fitz, or Braz or Nazareth  add their own dimension  of interest 
> and opportunities be it Ngorongoro and suddenly realize that the very people 
> close to them are silent in their graves now part of the African soil
> :::.Occasionally it hits one hard...Like at the time when I was caught in 
> the Lockdown In in Quepem .black and white photos ..10 x 8 of my Father 
> and his two friends in Uganda about 1926, Mr Pereira who opened a garage in 
> TABORA  and who was the third suited guy with my father I do not know his 
> name only think he was one of the three fellows who ventured with my Dad and 
> Pereira .and got involved with purchasing Cotton in Uganda It failed, 
> because the British suddenly realized that the India Rupee was becoming the 
> currency of trade (I found a cowrie shell in the garden in my Garden in 
> Makongo Juu ...DSM
> 
> Will what we write for whatever reasons become part of national literature 
> reflecting all the real changing moods of a crazy fellow called Iddi Amin who 
> had a dream ..and we saw related madness a few days ago in the White 
> House ...Back to the normal ..
> 
> My normal is that I am hungry this late afternoon. .Have a Good Goan 
> Sunday (I hope somebody in Goa does not ask FN..what is a Goan Sunday !!
> Grandolfo  
> 
> 
>  
> It is title to sentiments like these, and not merely to so-and-so many square 
> miles of land, that is transferred when
> This article is part of our premium archives.
> To continue reading and get full access to our entire archive, you must 
> subscribe.
> Subscribe
> 
> · 

Re: [Goanet] Why The Emigration?

[Gabe Menezes]

I am more than impressed!

I was born in Nairobi, Kenya. Went to London straight after school.  Joined
the RAF, left and joined Mitsui and Co, s major Japanese Trading Co. Left
and joined an USA Bank, in London, whose address was 1 Wall Street NYK.
Never looked back after that! Left them went to Saudi, with RIYADH BANK.
Finishing off working for a Saudi a prince. I'D do it all over again. I
retired @ 45. Amen.

On Sun, 24 Jan 2021, - A

> Reminiscent Tour.  2012; Goa,1556.]
> --
> FN* फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا‎ +91-9822122436
>

[Goanet] Why The Emigration ....Indeed Lets Rethink...Beyond the Great Prof. Bowman

[Adolfo Mascarenhas]

Dear Goa Netter's, I promised a second Part about Diaspora based  In
Message: 6 Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2021 12:50:40 -0500
From: Roland Francis 
raises on the Subject: Re:in Goanet] [Newsletters]  Why The
Emigration? Message-ID: <6a9da9f3-fb94-484b-b005-aaa8a5b37...@gmail.com>


Let me Go back slightly and discuss the PANDEMIC and perhaps that harmful
fellow who  vacated WHITE HOUSE.  The Pandemic we are experiencing is not
the first. At the end of World War 1 you had gthe Spanish flu it killed
more people than the two World Wars including the two A-Bombs dropped over
Japan. :::


Why do I bring this up ;;;There was this great American President Woodrow
Wilson who felt that US should participate in World War I (!914-18)
Everybody suffered so the notion of the League of Nations came up. Wilson
sailed  to Europe but towards the end apparently lost his senses. His wife
returned with him and White House was ruled for several months  by a
Petticoat President 


What is the relevance ;;;World War II (1939-45) and creation of the UNITED
NATIONS.  Bowman, was a not a mere Geographer and author ... he held other
Portfolios  among others   Isaiah Bowman was President of the Johns Hopkins
University; former Director of the American Geographical Society; and above
all in our context  he was

the adviser to the United States Delegation at the San Francisco
Conference. Remember he understood the role of Japanese Pioneers in Peru
...Professor  was a very sensible fellowHe realized that there are
deep psychological
changes wanting the good things of their former homelands and appreciation
of their new Homelands (Kenya, Tanganyika, Uganda or Zanzibar or
Mozambique) ... Politicians signing treaties do not realize this  Human
beings called Goans also bring a whole lot of personal feelings and group
sentiments. So some lie Fitz, or Braz or Nazareth  add their own dimension
 of interest and opportunities be it Ngorongoro and suddenly realize
that the very people close to them are silent in their graves now part of
the African soil

:::.Occasionally it hits one hard...Like at the time when I was caught
in the Lockdown In in Quepem .black and white photos ..10 x 8 of my
Father and his two friends in Uganda about 1926, Mr Pereira who opened a
garage in TABORA  and who was the third suited guy with my father I do
not know his name only think he was one of the three fellows who ventured
with my Dad and Pereira .and got involved with purchasing Cotton in Uganda
It failed, because the British suddenly realized that the India Rupee
was becoming the currency of trade (I found a cowrie shell in the garden in
my Garden in Makongo Juu ...DSM


Will what we write for whatever reasons become part of national literature
reflecting all the real changing moods of a crazy fellow called Iddi Amin
who had a dream ..and we saw related madness a few days ago in the
White House ...Back to the normal ..


My normal is that I am hungry this late afternoon. .Have a Good
Goan Sunday (I hope somebody in Goa does not ask FN..what is a Goan Sunday
!!

Grandolfo





It is title to sentiments like these, and not merely to so-and-so many
square miles of land, that is transferred when
This article is part of our premium archives. To continue reading and get
full access to our entire archive, you must subscribe.

*Subscribe* 

·

Re: [Goanet] Why The Emigration?

[Frederick Noronha]

Why do Goans migrate? Just tried to list some reasons... let me know if you
feel some don't swim... FN

01 Aspiring to a better life, at times illusory
02 "For the children"
03 Early growth of English edn in Bardez
04 Reverse discrimination in government employment
05 Lack of skills in entrepreneurship
06 Aspirations
07 Demonstration effect of returning/visiting expats
08 $ was Rs7, now Rs70+
09 Relatives have migrated, "doing well"
10 "Whole" villages have migrated, e.g. Agacciam
11 Anglo-Portuguese treaty, 1886, devastated Goa
12 Portuguese passorts open doors to Europe
13 Difficult to adjust to life in Goa by expats
14 Africanders' kids prefer Westernised settings
15 Difficult to build a home on a Goa salary
16 Married someone from outside Goa
17 Whites look 'cool', esp after tourism boom
18 Foreign friends promote wanderlust
19 "We are the world wanderers" --Sardessai
20 Migration abroad is part of wider Goan migration
21 Goa has among highest migration rates worldwide: Newman
22 Trauma of psot-1961 changes for some
23 Goan-style racism
24 Opening up of the Gulf since 1970s oil-boom
25 Craze for ship jobs, especially in Salcete
26 Spreading of migration craze to hinterland
27 Migration is the only life we know
28 In the 1920s, Goa saw poverty and acute food scarcity
29 Early husband deaths caused widow migration earlier
30 Portuguese-language skills opened opportunities
31 Mackinnon Mackenzie
32 Depiction of migrant life in writing, tiatr
33 Gulf "agents"
34 A relative/villager pulled your family into migration
35 Lack of high skills opportunities (e.g. medicine)
36 Easy job opportunities (see Goan docs in UK)
37 Surplus of education, lack of jobs. Then and now.
38 Kudds in Bombay were a welcoming second-home
39 "They earned in gold coins in Africa". Real quote.
40 Declining value of the rupee
41 Sudden demise of Portuguese, post-1961
42 Political reasons for some who went to Portugal
43 Partition, till then Karachi just another part of India
44 Foreign contractors offered jobs (e.g. engineering, IT)
45 Part of the wider, post-1990 Indian diaspora
46 Lifting of racist migration laws in US, UK, Au.
47 Better education facilities in Goa/India
48 British stationing troops around 1799 in Goa
49 Discovery of Goans as a community due to the above
50 Destruction of traditional occupations post-61 in Goa
51 Greater literacy and education growth post 1961 in Goa
52 IT skills growing in Goa, post 1990
53 Liberalisation in 1991, tech and knowledge inflow
54 Growth of the Internet, after 1997, access to ideas
55 Religious intolerance in Pk, outmigration from Karachi
56 Real estate boom in Bombay, causing migration westwards
57 Corruption in Goa/India stifling creativity
58 Economic exile
59 Aspirations growing unsustainably in Goa
60 Property disputes within families
61 Large number of priests in Goa, finding option in migration
62 Village, community, caste networks promoting migration
63 Dispersal of "Goan villages" in Bombay eg Dhobitalao, Cavel
64 Easy Rly jobs in Brit era, some changed names to access
65 Building up of Luso world, from Angola to Timor
66 Major infra projects, like EAfrica rail built by Brits
67 End of British colonialism in East Africa
68 End of Portuguese colonialism in Africa
69 Gulf bulk jobs in catering, teaching English, etc
70 The fact that you can earn ten times as much in Gulf, West
71 Political uncertainity, major bitterness each decade in Goa
72 Religious strife, in 16th century, 20th and 21st Goa
73 Musical skills of Goans
74 Cullinary skills of Goans
75 Goan rice, c'nut planting skills, esp to Karnataka (Keladi)
76 Preference for English education in Belgaum, Poona for eg
77 Padroado inflence, Goan clerics in M'lore, Belgaum, Lanka
78 Late 20thC Goan Cath missionaries going to outside world
79 Fortune-seeking in East Africa [See Note 1]
80 Participation in WWI, eg. Mesopotamia
81 British opening up colonies in Burma, Sindh, etc
82 Raids by neighbouring empires, e.g. Marathas
83 Food shortages in 16th century Goa
84 Access to skills: nursing, teaching, food, photog, advtg
85 Portuguese policies making Goans the musicians of South Asia
86 Changing politics after Independence 1947, Liberation 1961
87 Higher education possibilities esp after 1990s and 2000s
88 Diocesan Catholic priests shifting overseas
89 Religious orders with networks overseas
90 Goans (Hindus/Cs) act as agents/diplomats for Portuguese
91 Influx into non-traditional fields like Indian Army
92 Use of English-lang skills esp in post-1947 India
93 Female migration is a different, complex phenomenon
94 Jobs-edn mismatch; many IT egrs still go to Blore for jobs
95 One person migrates, generations stay overseas
96 Early achievers role models: Abbe (Cator Re Bhaji) Faria
97 Better options for education outside Goa, still
98 Economics pull factors from other centres in the world
99 Repeated devaluation of Indian economy
100 Because family migrates
101 Above all, it's a personal decision, something no logic

NOTE1: Manuel Ant

[Goanet] Why The Emigration ....Indeed Lets Rethink

[Adolfo Mascarenhas]

In Message: 6 Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2021 12:50:40 -0500
From: Roland Francis 
raises on the Subject: Re:in Goanet] [Newsletters]  Why The
Emigration? Message-ID: <6a9da9f3-fb94-484b-b005-aaa8a5b37...@gmail.com>



I saw it last night, but it was approaching the bewitching hour and I was
thinking about responding, and puff the power went off.  What I had read
was sad and annoying. Roland Francis was giving his mind to one individual.
Let me quote

>>>



2  Roland Francis Goes on <<< On Jan 22, 2021, at 6:03 PM, gipsport <
gipsp...@emirates.net.ae> wrote:
I know you have nothing better to do. You are asking a question, you are a
Goan, migrated to Canada, dont you have the answer to your question? Give
us your reason for migrating than ask the world their reasons.Sent from my
Galaxy:

 PEACE ON EARTH of MEN AND WOMEN OF GOOD WILL


Grandolfo’s PHASED  RESPONSE:

I agree with Roland …after 6 hours of sleep awoken by the sounds of
birds..I am now tickled by the Response of RF and FN and others.



More than 60 years ago, still in my first years as an honour student at
Makerere, I  was trying to impress myself, and deliberately stumbled about
an American author (another rebellious move to go beyond what the British
academician).  I say deliberately stumbled because I was interested in
World War Two and the rise of Japan. And efforts to stop this nation from
developing like the “Whites”  There were Japanese migrants in Latin
America, specifically in Peru.  How did they fare???

:::Briefly   ISAIAH BOWMAN author of   Pioneer Fringe  reminds us that::

First are  the THREE classical dimensions of SPACE (land, countries, space) We
move through<<*space>>>* either left or right, forward or backward, up or
down. <<<

FOURTH  (After the above 3) Just consider EVERYTHING from the House I rent
in Makongo Juu including  the plants some of them centuries old like the
Baobao  means that we have to add a fourth dimension called TIMElast
year, the first time I drove in the area in 1961, its  :Historic, ancient
and Prehistoric

FIFTH : Bowman and subsequent writers ADD A FIFTH dimension of
<<<>> From the earliest days of civilization.

 :::SIXTH DIMENSION: Imagination, Determination, Revolution including
Cuban, Digital etc etc

:::SEVENTH DIMENSION: HEAVEN …I know some of you do not believe in Heaven,
others think it is an illusion.  One fellow thinks it is Northern Kenyan, I
have yet to hear of a Goan who attended the Reed Dance in Swaziland, a
couple think its Entebbe and dozens think its Toronto and numerous fellows
think its Goa;

 *:::Second Part on ISAIAH Bowman to Follow It is linked to the
Pandemics:::*

[Goanet] Why The Emigration

[Antonio Menezes]

A very good question by "Roland Francis Jan22,21 and there
could be many answers.
The Goan Catholic emigration  was the result of western education
that was available to him.The incentive for mass migration came
from the departing British troops who were stationed in Goa during
the Napoleonic wars. (1790 - 1810 ) Goans started migrating to
Belgaum, Poona ,Bombay , Karachi etc. mostly to be of help to
European families as they  had healthy respect for non
vegetarian food.
There is probably a far greater reason  to abandon the homeland
and settle down in various parts of the world.
I have lived in Belgaum, Pune,  Bombay, Tanzania and Kenya
besides Goa. and whenever I came across a fellow Goan  abroad
my perennial question was ''from which village do you come from? ""
Many of them simply did now know the village they came from or
some feigned not to know it.  But once  I was told  that his parents
had advised him to forget the name of the village for reasons best
known to  themselves. This could be one of the subtle answers
why some do not want to talk about the ancestral village.and
content to live abroad.

[Goanet] Why The Emigration?

[Roland Francis]

Emigrating from Goa to the four corners of the earth has been going on for 
many, many years.

Yet love of the land and the people who inhabit it has always been as strong if 
not stronger in the Goan heart than any other Indian. But this does not seem to 
have kept people from fleeing, yes fleeing the place whether to nearby Bombay 
to to far away California. To die in a place other than your own for the 
oft-repeated of: To give my children a shot at a better life.

I know the simple and apparently obvious reasons are:
No employment available locally. 
No land available to sustain generations.
Colonial disregard for well being or Indian love for corruption that ultimately 
leads to displacement.

But are there other reasons that are not so obvious, that play a powerful part 
in separating the Goan from his land?

Roland.
Toronto.