Re: [Goanet] GAUNKARS - COMUNIDADE - ORIGINS
Thanks Tony. Very enlightening. Roland > On Dec 3, 2020, at 9:49 AM, Tony de Sa wrote: > > Roland Francis: " Tony, have there been attempts by the Govt to grab > communidade land let?s say in your own Moira experience." > > Roland not any major attempts during my tenures, but way back, the > government acquired a large tract of land for the "20 Point Programme". The > Committee was literally bulldozed into granting the land to the government. > Today, there is a glorified slum there. The plots are supposed to be of 100 > Sq. m dimensions and they are supposed to be one room tenements, but there > are inadequate roads within the colony and many of the dwellers have built > storied buildings there. The local name for the place is "Fukot Nagar" - > FreeTown. This is an eye sore and in the view of some villagers a curse to > the village. Every now and then the Panchayat lays down tarred roads in > comunidade lands without any by your leave from the Comunidade. > > For your information, if I am not mistaken, Assagao paid around Rs. 5000 > two years back as Jono. This I came to know through casual talk with one of > the committee members. Assagao today, is not what it was years ago during > your time Roland. It has completely transformed itself along with a few > other villages like Sangolda, or Porvorim. There are a great many > restaurants there, some of them gourmet restaurants. It has a lot of > 'birthing centres' where women can have deliveries in water. There are all > sorts of Yoga centres and clinics. The roads, even the interior ones are > hot mixed. It has a school, a higher Secondary School, an Arts, Science and > Commerce college which offers studies to the post graduate level. It also > has an engineering college set up by the Pilar Fathers on land donated by > the Assagao Comunidade. So today, you would probably get a couple of > bottles of imported whiskey for the Jono that you receive if your name is > still registered with the Comunidade. For those who do not know, every > Joneiro has to 'renew' his registration in the month of May every year to > be eligible to receive the Jono. Something akin to the journey to Bethlehem > made by the Holy Family. > > As for the "mezzache poixe" Every committee member is entitled to a sitting > fee for managing committee meetings. But I haven't claimed any for the past > six years and neither have the other committee members. In fact we incur > out of pocket expenses in the form of phone calls, transport to Mapusa/ > Panjim, printing, a lot of which we do on our own machines. The comunidade > has a desktop and a printer, but it is open only on Fridays because the > Escirvao (Clerk deputed by the Administrator) serves 7 comunidades and > comes to Moira only on Friday. So if there is some urgent communication to > be done, we do it from our home machines. > > Hope this gives some insight into the Comunidades. > > Tony de Sa
Re: [Goanet] GAUNKARS - COMUNIDADE - ORIGINS
Roland Francis: " Tony, have there been attempts by the Govt to grab communidade land let?s say in your own Moira experience." Roland not any major attempts during my tenures, but way back, the government acquired a large tract of land for the "20 Point Programme". The Committee was literally bulldozed into granting the land to the government. Today, there is a glorified slum there. The plots are supposed to be of 100 Sq. m dimensions and they are supposed to be one room tenements, but there are inadequate roads within the colony and many of the dwellers have built storied buildings there. The local name for the place is "Fukot Nagar" - FreeTown. This is an eye sore and in the view of some villagers a curse to the village. Every now and then the Panchayat lays down tarred roads in comunidade lands without any by your leave from the Comunidade. For your information, if I am not mistaken, Assagao paid around Rs. 5000 two years back as Jono. This I came to know through casual talk with one of the committee members. Assagao today, is not what it was years ago during your time Roland. It has completely transformed itself along with a few other villages like Sangolda, or Porvorim. There are a great many restaurants there, some of them gourmet restaurants. It has a lot of 'birthing centres' where women can have deliveries in water. There are all sorts of Yoga centres and clinics. The roads, even the interior ones are hot mixed. It has a school, a higher Secondary School, an Arts, Science and Commerce college which offers studies to the post graduate level. It also has an engineering college set up by the Pilar Fathers on land donated by the Assagao Comunidade. So today, you would probably get a couple of bottles of imported whiskey for the Jono that you receive if your name is still registered with the Comunidade. For those who do not know, every Joneiro has to 'renew' his registration in the month of May every year to be eligible to receive the Jono. Something akin to the journey to Bethlehem made by the Holy Family. As for the "mezzache poixe" Every committee member is entitled to a sitting fee for managing committee meetings. But I haven't claimed any for the past six years and neither have the other committee members. In fact we incur out of pocket expenses in the form of phone calls, transport to Mapusa/ Panjim, printing, a lot of which we do on our own machines. The comunidade has a desktop and a printer, but it is open only on Fridays because the Escirvao (Clerk deputed by the Administrator) serves 7 comunidades and comes to Moira only on Friday. So if there is some urgent communication to be done, we do it from our home machines. Hope this gives some insight into the Comunidades. Tony de Sa
Re: [Goanet] GAUNKARS - COMUNIDADE - ORIGINS
On Wednesday, December 2, 2020, 02:06:34 p.m. CST, Tony de Sa wrote: To all those who wished to know about the Comunidades, here's my two cents. I speak with some authority here having been a Treasurer of the Comunidade de Moira in a previous term and now for immediate previous term and the present term. -snip-Government could have been more proactive. Comunidades could have been named as local bodies. This would save us from paying income tax. As it stands, Most comunidades pay about 30% of their income as income tax. In cases of land grabbing and squatting, Government could have done better by assisting the comunidades. Alas, there is no help forth coming. And all this talk about giving ladies rights to Jono, don't open a pandora's box. Anybody needing any clarification, I'll be pleased to help if I can. Nice info, Tony de Sa, It is nice to read about the system in a book. It is also a different eye opener to hear about the system as it operates today. I am looking forward to more practical info from you. Mervyn
Re: [Goanet] GAUNKARS - COMUNIDADE - ORIGINS
Tony, have there been attempts by the Govt to grab communidade land let’s say in your own Moira experience. I last collected my annual share from the Assagao communidade in 1966 in person for a princely sum of 6 rupees which turned out to be 24 rupees per the receipt since it was not collected by an aunt for 4 years. Assagao it appeared, was one of the poorest paying compared to my mother’s village Loutolim which was 1,500 rupees or so in the same years. The escrivão gave me only 20 rupees, saying when questioned, the rest was ‘mezzak’ (for the desk, meaning him). The aunt insisted I give the 20 rupees to the St Cajetan Church priest for masses for my ancestors. Net result a wasted effort specially since I had planned to buy a Hercules XXX rum out of the proceeds. But I was told I had done right to ‘exercise my rights’. Roland. > On Dec 2, 2020, at 1:18 PM, Tony de Sa wrote: > > To all those who wished to know about the Comunidades, here's my two cents. > I speak with some authority here having been a Treasurer of the Comunidade > de Moira in a previous term and now for immediate previous term and the > present term. > > For those who wish to know about "Jono" (that's the official term and those > who receive the Jono are "Joneiros"), basically, the Jono is a dividend > paid to the shareholders or Joneiros. Every Comunidade has Joneiros and > some have shareholders too. Among the joneiros, there are "Vangors" or > clans. There are also Kulacharis who were people who performed services for > the Comunidade and were granted a portion of the Jono as a token of payment > for their services. The amount to be paid to Joneiros and Kulacharis is > codified in the Code of Comunidades. In fact if you read the code, it is > interesting as payments are prescribed for various works and services, > though the system of currency Escudos is no longer in use. There are forms > for accounts and various ledgers to be maintained. Procedures are laid down > for various acts. In fact it is a complete manual for running the affairs > of the Comunidade. > > For those who wish to know, Jono is calculated by estimating the income and > expenditure and then dividing the profits equally among the Joneiros as per > the rules of distribution of Jono. In Moira, for example, Vangors 1 to % > get a full share. Escrivaes, another set of people who worked as clerks, > get a full share. Kulacharis get half share and we have a group called > Calvekars who get three fourth share. Among the expenses is a fee called a > Derama which we pay to the Administrator of Comunidades of the Zone for > deputing the Escrivao to our Comunidade and other services. For those who > wanted to know figures of payment, we in Moira have paid various amounts. > Last year it was Rs. 1300/- There are comunidades like Chicalim which pay > tens of thousands. It would be a very poorly maintained Comunidade which > does not pay Jono. Also, the rules of accumulation of Jono vary from > comunidade to comunidade as per that comunidades bye laws. > > The comunidades of Goa are not moribund. This despite the fact that we get > no support from the Governement. There are determined efforts by various > vested interests to by hook or crook to rob us of our heritage's most > precious commodity. We have formed a Whatsapp group called the "Association > of Componentes of Comunidades of Goa" to solve our problems unitedly. There > are good people in every comunidade who devote their time to the running of > this venerable institution even though it is a thankless job. There is an > awakening among the comunidades and we are trying to save our lands. But > there are rotten apples in every society and so in the comunidades too. In > many cases the downfall of the comunidades has been aided and abetted by > our own people. > > Government could have been more proactive. Comunidades could have been > named as local bodies. This would save us from paying income tax. As it > stands, Most comunidades pay about 30% of their income as income tax. In > cases of land grabbing and squatting, Government could have done better by > assisting the comunidades. Alas, there is no help forth coming. > > And all this talk about giving ladies rights to Jono, don't open a > pandora's box. Anybody needing any clarification, I'll be pleased to help > if I can. > > Tony de Sa
Re: [Goanet] GAUNKARS - COMUNIDADE - ORIGINS
To all those who wished to know about the Comunidades, here's my two cents. I speak with some authority here having been a Treasurer of the Comunidade de Moira in a previous term and now for immediate previous term and the present term. For those who wish to know about "Jono" (that's the official term and those who receive the Jono are "Joneiros"), basically, the Jono is a dividend paid to the shareholders or Joneiros. Every Comunidade has Joneiros and some have shareholders too. Among the joneiros, there are "Vangors" or clans. There are also Kulacharis who were people who performed services for the Comunidade and were granted a portion of the Jono as a token of payment for their services. The amount to be paid to Joneiros and Kulacharis is codified in the Code of Comunidades. In fact if you read the code, it is interesting as payments are prescribed for various works and services, though the system of currency Escudos is no longer in use. There are forms for accounts and various ledgers to be maintained. Procedures are laid down for various acts. In fact it is a complete manual for running the affairs of the Comunidade. For those who wish to know, Jono is calculated by estimating the income and expenditure and then dividing the profits equally among the Joneiros as per the rules of distribution of Jono. In Moira, for example, Vangors 1 to % get a full share. Escrivaes, another set of people who worked as clerks, get a full share. Kulacharis get half share and we have a group called Calvekars who get three fourth share. Among the expenses is a fee called a Derama which we pay to the Administrator of Comunidades of the Zone for deputing the Escrivao to our Comunidade and other services. For those who wanted to know figures of payment, we in Moira have paid various amounts. Last year it was Rs. 1300/- There are comunidades like Chicalim which pay tens of thousands. It would be a very poorly maintained Comunidade which does not pay Jono. Also, the rules of accumulation of Jono vary from comunidade to comunidade as per that comunidades bye laws. The comunidades of Goa are not moribund. This despite the fact that we get no support from the Governement. There are determined efforts by various vested interests to by hook or crook to rob us of our heritage's most precious commodity. We have formed a Whatsapp group called the "Association of Componentes of Comunidades of Goa" to solve our problems unitedly. There are good people in every comunidade who devote their time to the running of this venerable institution even though it is a thankless job. There is an awakening among the comunidades and we are trying to save our lands. But there are rotten apples in every society and so in the comunidades too. In many cases the downfall of the comunidades has been aided and abetted by our own people. Government could have been more proactive. Comunidades could have been named as local bodies. This would save us from paying income tax. As it stands, Most comunidades pay about 30% of their income as income tax. In cases of land grabbing and squatting, Government could have done better by assisting the comunidades. Alas, there is no help forth coming. And all this talk about giving ladies rights to Jono, don't open a pandora's box. Anybody needing any clarification, I'll be pleased to help if I can. Tony de Sa
