Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance (Letter in Goan Daily,,OHeraldo)
I just hope you did not mean me because i did open it on the ferry warf at divar as it was very cold and chilly and a toilet is not in view but then im not a ghanti although i visit the ghats once a year. Do come to bastora and count the number of ghanti shudd goans with ration cards it does make me feel an unshudd goan cheers jeff
Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance (Letter in Goan Daily OHeraldo)
On 29 June 2010 08:20, J. Colaco jc cola...@gmail.com wrote: BTW: The last day to legally prevent uninhibited migration into Goa was Dec 19, 1961 Was there no large-scale migration into Goa before Dec 19, 1961? Where did all the Goans come from then? And were all our rulers before then Goan too? FN PS: I know you will turn around to say the in-migration then wasn't so proportionately large. But please do a fact-check on your history, who is labelled an insider and who an outsider.
Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance (Letter in Goan Daily OHeraldo)
On 29 June 2010 04:57, Frederick Noronha fredericknoro...@gmail.com wrote: Was there no large-scale migration into Goa before Dec 19, 1961? did all the Goans come from then? And were all our rulers before then Goan too? FN == Response: 1: While what FN says is correct, his statement refers to a tangential point I was not making. 2: I invite FN to concentrate on the phrase 'legally prevent uninhibited migration'.as in immigration control, which, I submit once again to Arwin, cannot be applied post 1961. 3: I will further add here that, even to (say) the UK and USA, there has large scale migration. But those countries have had and still do have the capability to 'legally prevent uninhibited migration'. jc Earlier I had stated this: BTW: The last day to legally prevent uninhibited migration into Goa was Dec 19, 1961
Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance (Letter in Goan Daily OHeraldo)
Lets put ur logic to all other Indian States and Other Indian Countries. How are Indian States divided today? Why have borders/identities and lets be a jolly good cocktail? Let everyone do it and perhaps I could agree!! Message: 5 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 14:27:12 +0530 From: Frederick Noronha fredericknoro...@gmail.com To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@lists.goanet.org Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance (Letter in Goan Daily OHeraldo) Message-ID: aanlktimgpghzgkdxjihwvjmw0ettq0kl-sk_v-9ip...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 29 June 2010 08:20, J. Colaco jc cola...@gmail.com wrote: BTW: The last day to legally prevent uninhibited migration into Goa was Dec 19, 1961 Was there no large-scale migration into Goa before Dec 19, 1961? Where did all the Goans come from then? And were all our rulers before then Goan too? FN PS: I know you will turn around to say the in-migration then wasn't so proportionately large. But please do a fact-check on your history, who is labelled an insider and who an outsider.
Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance (Letter in Goan Daily OHeraldo)
Arwin, Are you suggesting that the borders of other states are closed to Goans going and settling there? We already have what you call a jolly good cocktail... and Goans have been benefitting from this for some generations now. FN On 29 June 2010 17:33, Arwin Mesquita arwinmesqu...@gmail.com wrote: Lets put ur logic to all other Indian States and Other Indian Countries. How are Indian States divided today? Why have borders/identities and lets be a jolly good cocktail? Let everyone do it and perhaps I could agree!!
Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance (Letter in Goan Daily OHeraldo)
I agree with Arwin Mesquita on the subject he has written. With regards to us Goans accepting ourselves as part of the Indian Union, we already have. But has India accepted that Goans are part of what collectively defines India? What is India? Is it not a collection of states each with their unique language culture? Together this becomes India. And if Goans want to preserve a part of what defines India, then definitely they should be are well within their rights. With regards to influx of people, it's not about Goan or Indian here. Goa doesn't have sufficient residential land. It's as simple as that. To be able to settle in Goa, rules are blatantly violated resulting in hills being cut, farms being filled etc. If this is acceptable nobody minds an ecological disaster, then fine, we can welcome destruction of the environment. Another fact is more the people more the strain on the civic services. Clean drinking water, proper garbage disposal, power, law enforcement etc, need to keep with the sudden dramatic increase in population. I mean it's not just the rights of the people here. What about the rights of the environment? We accused the colonial powers of exploiting our resources. Are we doing any better? How do we explain in a country thats mostly vegetarian, Tigers are on the brink of extinction? It's nothing but the two predators (human tiger) competing for territory. One needs more land to reside thus one of them has to give we know where that's going. So once the Indian tiger, a symbol of India, disappears, can we blame the colonial powers? I think we should look at Arwin's article understand it thoroughly. Finally, when you analyze it, the focal point really comes down to effective proper planning with a vision for the future. How does the Government of Goa India see Goa 5, 10, 20 years down the line? An overpopulated polluted state with crumbling infrastructure or a state with proper management where it's citizens enjoy healthy environment are proud that their customs traditions are preserved? Planning ( especially for the future) is severely lacking in India which leaves inhabitants frustrated this frustration gets manifested in ways similar to the Marathi agitation against outsiders. Unfortunately, media people are quick to cry react with Traitor or Disloyal to India. I guess this is much easier then solving the root cause of the issue. I mean, hey, why bother providing a solution, just accuse a whole section of people (if they complain) that they don't love India they'll feel bad fall back in line. Indians are extremely emotional anyways. Really easy to keep unhappy people in line, isn't it? In history (Europe), when people were unhappy revolutions occurred. Here, not so I guess. And as I've mentioned in the beginning, it is the parts (states) that make the whole (India). You take away one India ceases to exist. How India would prosper if it ensures that all parts effectively come together in a proper synergy, without strain or preferential treatment on few individual parts. Of course, if the constitution states that conformance of only North Indian or any other particular non-Goan culture is what truly defines India, then in that case, I'm sorry to say that India shouldn't exist. I am proud of my Goan identity culture which contributes to define India India's uniqueness among nations.
Re: [Goanet] Goan Tolerance (Letter in Goan Daily OHeraldo)
Arwin Mesquita arwinmesqu...@gmail.com wrote: We are all Indians, but India is made up of so many cultures and identities, each of which has a right to be preserved and protected. Even European governments today realise that there is a logic in migrant control, and are converting Europe into a sort of fortress, with increasingly tighter immigration policies. Those being accepted are made to undergo compulsory integration into the local population == COMMENT: It is time for Goans to (perhaps, finally) accept that Goa is firmly a part of the Indian Union. Nothing will ever change that. As of December 1961, Goa and Goans are governed as per the Indian Constitution. Until Arwin Mesquita manages to (single or two-handedly) amend the constitution, there is NOTHING he or anyone else can do about the influx of Indian citizens from other parts of India into Goa. No point telling us about Kashmir. At the point of accession, the Kashmiris organised their demands. No such event took place with the freedom fighters of Goa. No point referring to the tighter immigration controls brought about by European countries. First of all, Goa is not a country. It is a State within the Indian Union. Immigration control is not a State responsibility in India. Even in Europe, citizens of the first set of member-states have every right to enter any country within the EU to look for a job.and IF they have funds, to buy a house. Even Konkani-only speaking Goans with Portuguese nationality can do that. In fact, any body from anywhere in the world (who does not have a known criminal record) can buy a house (say) in the UK or Eire (at least). All you need is clean funds. So, I say to Arwin: Get used to the facts of life. Nobody can legally prevent any Indian citizen from migrating to Goa. Not even your new pal, Shri Winston. BTW: The last day to legally prevent uninhibited migration into Goa was Dec 19, 1961 jc
