Re: [Goanet] The rule about names
Hi Fred and other goanet administrators, Please... please ...please ENFORCE the rules. No society can progress without rules. And if the rules are not going to be enforced, they should be removed. Having it both ways is the way things used to be done. Living / writing to rules imparts a discipline and will raise the quality of posts and this site. There is no reason why we cannot insists on a civil dialogue. In the long run it may even make the job of the moderators easier. Kind Regards, GL - Frederick While I believe in free speech and the right of everyone to express their views (howsoever much I disagree with the same), I also believe that we should debate views not persons; insults never convince anyone; and we should use logic not name-calling. And please could we here more from members: would you prefer a tighter interpretation of the rules, or will you just prefer to stand by and stay silent when someone (you know who) accuses your not-so-favourite moderator of being a "censorer"? -- ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] The rule about names
--- "Frederick \"FN\" Noronha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Do you guys remember the time when Herman suspended >a member, sometimes in 1996 or so? I recall though >most of us were angry with that person who got >suspended (I don't recall who it was). But after the >suspension, there was a whole lot of sympathy for him. > If I am not mistaken, the poor guy reacted strongly in private to bigoted private hate-emails from a internet troll called Nguyen or Nyugen, and the latter character then posted his expletive-laced private email on Goanet. The Nguyen guy was really nasty, but he did all his serial abuse in private. Several of us with Hindu-sounding names, or with some affinity towards India or things Indian, were targeted by him. Perhaps, he is still around as a silent netter. He may even have been posting under his real name or another pseudonym. Cheers, Santosh ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] The rule about names & women
Dear Frederick, You may be surprised how many silent women readers there are on the net that don't feel inclined to post. One issue maybe the testosterone-fueled subject range may not hold interest for women. To that end I am trying to write on some subjects that may interest women and hopefully bring them out of hiding. The other reason is, for anyone to survive on forums, one has to be as tough as nails and many women shy away from wanting to swim with the sharks. selma --- "Frederick \"FN\" Noronha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > We had a lot more women members on Goanet then. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] The rule about names
--- Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > But to ease the burden, I think each of us > ought to help in the proper enforcement of the > rules. We ought to point out instances of rule > violation whenever we spot them, without being > concerned about further abuse in retaliation. I > think Gabe, Bosco and you have done this in the > past. I have tried to do this as well. > Mario observes: > In high school we had a name for such people who apparently never look in a mirror to see what they are quick to see in others. > Are the four Goanet moderators suddenly incapable of policing the Goanet Rules dictate from posts written in either plain English or Konkani? > ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] The rule about names
On 18/08/06, Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am in favor of suspension or even expulsion of such > a character if he does not stop the serial abuse Do you guys remember the time when Herman suspended a member, sometimes in 1996 or so? I recall though most of us were angry with that person who got suspended (I don't recall who it was). But after the suspension, there was a whole lot of sympathy for him. In those days, the Net was a far less cynical place. Virii weren't as common (though I was still using Windows then). And spam was virtually unheard of. So, we felt that a terrible thing had happened. We all appealed to Herman (there was no Admin Team yet then). And, Herman, all of 19 or so, after some silence from his part, lifted the suspension. We had a lot more women members on Goanet then. And we were all much younger (obviously). Sometimes I think of James Almeida and Sharon, the two Goanetters known to have actually got married. (Others may have met on Goanet, or via the Cybermatrimonials, but never publicly acknowledged it. Even a promised invite for a wedding -- it's quite safe to send these to me, as I usually play truant -- didn't turn up. Even though I was then maintaining the Cybermatrimonials.) We should have a token $1 prize for the best memories on Goanet's 12th birthday! -- --- Frederick Noronha http://fn.goa-india.org 9822122436 +91-832-240-9490 http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] The rule about names
--- "Frederick \"FN\" Noronha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Hi Santosh, I am glad that a section of Goanetters >are speaking out in favour of a stronger >interpretation of Goanet's rules. > Hi Frederick, Thanks. Anybody who violates the rules more than 50% of the time is a burden on the Goanet administrators. I am in favor of suspension or even expulsion of such a character if he does not stop the serial abuse forthwith. But to ease the burden, I think each of us ought to help in the proper enforcement of the rules. We ought to point out instances of rule violation whenever we spot them, without being concerned about further abuse in retaliation. I think Gabe, Bosco and you have done this in the past. I have tried to do this as well. Cheers, Santosh ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] The rule about names
Hi Santosh, I am glad that a section of Goanetters are speaking out in favour of a stronger interpretation of Goanet's rules. While I believe in free speech and the right of everyone to express their views (howsoever much I disagree with the same), I also believe that we should debate views not persons; insults never convince anyone; and we should use logic not name-calling. You may address your question below to the Goanet Admin Team, since we work collectively and my views expressed -- unless thoroughly discussed and agreed upon among the team in advance -- clearly do not reflect the views of the entire team (Herman Carneiro, Bosco D'Mello, Viviana Coelho and myself). And please could we here more from members: would you prefer a tighter interpretation of the rules, or will you just prefer to stand by and stay silent when someone (you know who) accuses your not-so-favourite moderator of being a "censorer"? --FN PS: And lest you guys have forgotten, please keep your birthday present ready for Goanet. Any 12 year old has a lot of expectations, you know! On 18/08/06, Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > But speaking about interpretation of rules, are the > following rules being properly interpreted, or are > they being re-interpreted differently from my own > interpretation of them? Could you tell us whether they > have ever been enforced? ... > P.S. My questions are addressed more out of curiosity > than criticism of the thankless job you are doing. -- --- Frederick Noronha http://fn.goa-india.org 9822122436 +91-832-240-9490 http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] The rule about names
--- Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > But speaking about interpretation of rules, are the > following rules being properly interpreted, or are > they being re-interpreted differently from my own > interpretation of them? Could you tell us whether > they have ever been enforced? > > RULES THAT MIGHT HAVE AN INTERPRETATION DIFFERENT > FROM MINE > > "Do not use foul, offensive or abusive language. > > Maintain a level of decency and respect to fellow > Goanetters at all times. > > Flame-baits and flame-wars will be rejected. > > Goanet will also reject all posts which are > derogatory or offensive to any group based on > gender, religion, caste, class, nationality, race > or other such grounds. This does not mean that > Goanet disallows discussion and debate on these > issues; but all discussion should be conducted in a > polite, non-derogatory and non-offensive manner. > > Do not engage in personal attacks. > > This includes name-calling of any sort. Discussion > should focus on the facts and ideas being discussed, > and not the person posting the same. > Mario observes: > If just the rules shown above were strictly enforced, 50% of Goanet posts would be rejected, including several posts by Dr. Helekar and myself:-)) > ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] The rule about names
--- "Frederick \"FN\" Noronha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Santosh, That's *your* interpretation of the > rule. To my mind, it seems a very clear >re-intrepretation of the rule :-) > Frederick, I think the rule can be made less subject to interpretation, and unnecessary grief to people like Vivek, Aristo and Bernado Colaco, by simply requiring folks to state their full name and identity at the outset, i.e. when they subscribe. A fine lady such as "Elisabeth" would not have used a pseudonym, and be subjected to embarassment, backbiting and outrageous innuendo from Gilbert and other like-minded elements of the subscribership of this forum. But speaking about interpretation of rules, are the following rules being properly interpreted, or are they being re-interpreted differently from my own interpretation of them? Could you tell us whether they have ever been enforced? RULES THAT MIGHT HAVE AN INTERPRETATION DIFFERENT FROM MINE "Do not use foul, offensive or abusive language. Maintain a level of decency and respect to fellow Goanetters at all times. Flame-baits and flame-wars will be rejected. Goanet will also reject all posts which are derogatory or offensive to any group based on gender, religion, caste, class, nationality, race or other such grounds. This does not mean that Goanet disallows discussion and debate on these issues; but all discussion should be conducted in a polite, non-derogatory and non-offensive manner. Do not engage in personal attacks. This includes name-calling of any sort. Discussion should focus on the facts and ideas being discussed, and not the person posting the same. Do not post spam. Goanet treats repeated postings, commercial posts, lengthy reposts of an original email, cross posts, among other things, as spam. If you're replying to an email and quoting it, quote the minimum and delete the rest. Do not forward private emails to the list without permission from the author. Do not forward copyrighted material to the list in a manner that could lead to objections from the copyright holder." Cheers, Santosh P.S. My questions are addressed more out of curiosity than criticism of the thankless job you are doing. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] The rule about names
Hi Santosh, That's *your* interpretation of the rule. To my mind, it seems a very clear re-intrepretation of the rule :-) I'm clearly not talking here as a member of the Goanet Admin Team (because we speak in that capacity only after we've evolved a consensus or common understanding). But to my mind, the rule means just what it says. No anonymity. Santosh's argument that one can use either the first name or the surname seems to be a subversion of the rule as I understand it. If I sign as Noronha (without a known ID or a new ID that emerges from the skies), it's as good as being anonymous. You can be as anonymous as you want if you want to read Goanet. To post you should have to identify yourself. This is just the bare minimum in terms of conditionalities for participating in the public discourse. Of course, there are other complications. Like the hazards of being a woman on the internet (and particularly patriarchy-dominated Goanet). But, as the rule stands, I don't think it helps to reducing posting to anonymity by subverting the rule with an any-one-name-will-do argument. If this were so, why not just accept my middle names? From tomorrow, can I sign as "Noel John"? Or "N John" if I want to rake up more chauvinism against those "non Goans" while dishing out some unpalatable views? That's my personal view. While talking of names, in the past I was personally mistaken into believing that Ole Xac didn't exist. However much I disagree with his viewpoint, he has a right to express it, if he's willing to sign his name to it (provided these fit into the other rules of Goanet, that is, nondefamatory, etc). And we're all grateful to Teo for coming up with a photograph of the flesh-and-bones man, as he exists in Macau. My apologies to Ole and all concerned for thinking he was a ghost! Such gross errors only remind us that we are human, something we forget while writing off things to a mass audience via the keyboard. Providing an identity check *only* to Goanet Admin could also overturn the need for the no-anonymous-posting clauses. That of openness to all on the community, so that everyone knows where the views are coming from, who (if anyone) is taking responsibility for the same, and who they are dealing with. Of course, some newspapers, in their letters-to-the-editors columns (the closest thing in a traditional media to an open-to-all mailing list) do allow for anonymity, if the editor is convinced of the reasons for the same. Such a rule, as yet, doesn't exist on Goanet's rulebook. All I can say is that the Admin Team is looking at various options. FN PS: Talking about names, of the many names I call myself, one certainly isn't "Fred". This came about because, in the early days (circa 1995), email systems wouldn't take more than eight alphabets as addresses. So as frederick.noronha would not fit, some technician suggested [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- and so many came to believe that my name was what it was not. Maybe I should have just protested earlier :-) But what was that about a thorn being as hurtful under any name? On 17/08/06, Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >On the other hand, the 'Use your real name as the > >sender, not an alias' rule still stands. > > This rule that stands is as follows: > > "*Use your real name as the sender, not an alias. > > *The Goanet Admin team reserves the right to ask > members for proof of identity or contact details, if > it has any reason to suspect their identity. > > Members suspected of using an alias may be suspended > until satisfactory proof of identity is provided." > > Let us look at what this rule means. The rule asks > people to use their name, not necessarily their full > name. So it leaves open the option of using only the > first or the last name. > > Furthermore, it requires that the proof of identity or > contact details be provided to the Goanet Admin team, > and not necessarily announced publicly on Goanet. -- --- Frederick Noronha http://fn.goa-india.org 9822122436 +91-832-240-9490 http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
