Re: [Goanet] the fascinating Portuguese study
Dear Jose, I agree totally with your elegant analysis, and accept Gabriel's explanation. Of course, if IAF fighters took off from Pune at 3.30 in the morning, the planes from Goa were long gone by then. Warm regards to you both, Victor --- On Sat, 10/27/12, J. Colaco < jc> wrote: From: J. Colaco < jc> Subject: Re: the fascinating Portuguese study To: "Gabriel de Figueiredo" Cc: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" , "vrangel...@yahoo.com" Date: Saturday, October 27, 2012, 11:06 AM 1: Gabriel @ http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2012-October/226237.html "the last TAIP flight took off overladen with the last of the families of the Portuguese in the dead of night. The Indian airforce, according to Bharat-Rakshak, was scrambled TO GIVE CHASE" 2: VRR (to Gabriel) @ http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2012-October/226257.html "Contrary to what you say about Indian fighter jets being scrambled TO SHOOT DOWN the fleeing refugee plane" 3: Gabriel (correcting himself by quoting Bharat-Rakshak) @ http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2012-October/226268.html 'After landing at Poona, we were ordered off again (...) TO INTERCEPT a target aircraft heading in a NNW direction off the coast, we never made contact.' Gabriel added: "Give chase" may have been too strong a word that I used. COMMENT: 1: I submit that the phrase "Give chase" is actually milder than the term "Intercept'. 2: In error (no doubt), VRR misread/misquoted "give chase" as "shoot down". jc
Re: [Goanet] the fascinating Portuguese study
1: Gabriel @ http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2012-October/226237.html "the last TAIP flight took off overladen with the last of the families of the Portuguese in the dead of night. The Indian airforce, according to Bharat-Rakshak, was scrambled TO GIVE CHASE" 2: VRR (to Gabriel) @ http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2012-October/226257.html "Contrary to what you say about Indian fighter jets being scrambled TO SHOOT DOWN the fleeing refugee plane" 3: Gabriel (correcting himself by quoting Bharat-Rakshak) @ http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2012-October/226268.html 'After landing at Poona, we were ordered off again (...) TO INTERCEPT a target aircraft heading in a NNW direction off the coast, we never made contact.' Gabriel added: "Give chase" may have been too strong a word that I used. COMMENT: 1: I submit that the phrase "Give chase" is actually milder than the term "Intercept'. 2: In error (no doubt), VRR misread/misquoted "give chase" as "shoot down". jc
Re: [Goanet] the fascinating Portuguese study
"IAF were scrambled to give chase" was what I said. "Give chase" may have been too strong a word that I used - perhaps "investigate" would have been better. The actual word used by the pilot reporting the incident was "intercept". The information comes from a paragraph of http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/1961Goa/1014-Loughran.html "17th/18th Dec. Vamp NF X, No. ID608. After landing at Poona, we were ordered off again at about three thirty, (A/C No. ID 608, same crew) to intercept a target aircraft heading in a NNW direction off the coast, we never made contact. This target turned out to be the Super Connie that took off from Dabolim and hugging the deck went to Karachi [1]. Many years later (1985/86) the Captain of that TAIP Super Connie was flying B 737's with Air Malta.". Gabriel. PS the "funny" aircraft I saw were actually Vampires, not Sea Vixens (they look similar, though, both manufactured by De Havilland). PPS I understand there were actually two aircraft involved in that last-minute evacuation: one piloted by Capt Reis (TAP Constellation), and the very last flight out being piloted by Capt Solano de Almeida (TAIP DC-4). Incidentally, and I may have said this before, Capt Solano de Almeida piloted the first TAIP aircraft (a Heron) to be delivered to Goa, and was the pilot of the last TAIP aircraft (DC-4) to fly out of Goa. This last journey was also described in detail by a paratroop nurse, regretably the site is no longer available, but see http://blogueforanadaevaotres.blogspot.com.au/2012/01/guine-6374-p9348-parabens-voce-367.html : "Tivemos um regresso atribulado a bordo de um DC4 dos TAIP (Transportes Aéreos da ex-Índia Portuguesa), cujo comandante, Solano de Almeida, o tinha conseguido retirar com estilhaços, e fugido com a pista inoperativa, conjuntamente com um avião da TAP que ainda vinha mais esburacado e que ficou a reparar em Carachi." > >From: Jose Colaco >To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" >Cc: estb. 1994!Goa's premiere mailing list ; Gabriel >de Figueiredo ; "vrangel...@yahoo.com" > >Sent: Friday, 26 October 2012 7:03 AM >Subject: Re: the fascinating Portuguese study > > >On Oct 25, 2012, the always elegant and distinguished Victor Rangel-Ribeiro >wrote: > > >Contrary to what you say about Indian fighter jets being scrambled to shoot >down the fleeing refugee plane, the Portuguese researches claim the Indian Air >Force pilots had explicit instructions not to interfere with the flight. I'll >post more on these episodes later in the week. > > >--- > > > > >3: I find it difficult to believe that a civilian plane would have been >attacked by IAF. > > >4: I definitely understand the concern and preventive action on the part of >TAIP. That is the special responsibility of ALL pilots charged with >transporting women, children and other refugees.
Re: [Goanet] the fascinating Portuguese study
On Oct 25, 2012, the always elegant and distinguished Victor Rangel-Ribeiro wrote: There's a fascinating Portuguese study, just become public, that throws an incredible light on that There's a fascinating Portuguese study, just become public, that throws an incredible light on that episode and others connected with the events of December 18, 19, 1961. Contrary to what you say about Indian fighter jets being scrambled to shoot down the fleeing refugee plane, the Portuguese researches claim the Indian Air Force pilots had explicit instructions not to interfere with the flight. I'll post more on these episodes later in the week. --- Comment: 1: crazy as I believe men with 'arms' can be and usually are, 2: bogus as I believe the justifications for unprovoked violence and aggression always are, 3: I find it difficult to believe that a civilian plane would have been attacked by IAF. 4: I definitely understand the concern and preventive action on the part of TAIP. That is the special responsibility of ALL pilots charged with transporting women, children and other refugees. About the 'claims of Portuguese researchers', I will wait to see their research methods and their bibliography. Until that time, I have a box full of salt I can pinch. jc Ena mena Deeka Revisionism maka naka Rum pum po. Rum pum po. ps: anybody did their homework wrt Eric Goemcar Vas . and his chapati? Is he mentioned in Valmiki's book?
