Re: [go-nuts] Go Fonts: request for feedback

[Aram Hăvărneanu]

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 8:12 PM, roger peppe  wrote:
> Perhaps a slightly esoteric request: I'd love to see the fonts made
> available in Plan 9 (acme compatible) font format. I tried doing the
> conversion and all bar one font size looked terrible.

I also ask for this, and confirm that the conversion done by fontsrv
(using either FreeType or Quartz) is not great.

Thanks,

-- 
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Re: [go-nuts] Go Fonts: request for feedback

[Nigel Tao]

On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 12:40 AM, Konstantin Khomoutov
 wrote:
> Compare this to how a set of ubiquitous fonts from Microsoft is
> rendered with the same settings: ms-alias-none-no-hinting.png -- they
> look just great.

Yeah, I believe that Microsoft put a *lot* of work into those fonts, a
couple of decades ago, to make them look OK with no anti-aliasing,
since e.g. 256-color displays weren't uncommon in the 1990s. At least,
look OK at 12 pt. I'm not sure if they'd look as good at 13 pt or 15
pt. When you're off 12 pt (or nice multiples of that), I suspect that
you'll need either anti-aliasing or hinting or both to look OK.

I don't think the Go fonts are going to get that much work put into
them, for custom hinting, or for the bulk of existing glyph vectors to
change drastically. Sorry, I guess that the Go fonts are not for your
configuration.

Tangentially, Bigelow & Holmes did do a vector version of the iconic
Mac system bitmap font called Chicago, and at 12 pt the vector version
produces identical glyphs to the bitmap version. OTOH, at higher pt
values, the font looks kind of blocky. But that was a deliberate
design constraint up front: Susan Kare's bitmap font came first and
was well known by the time B&H were asked to work on a vector version.

More info:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_(typeface)
http://cajun.cs.nott.ac.uk/compsci/epo/papers/volume4/issue3/ep050cb.pdf

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Re: [go-nuts] Go Fonts: request for feedback

[Nigel Tao]

On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 12:12 PM, roger peppe  wrote:
> More unicode coverage would also be nice. Selfishly I'd like characters for
> all those in plan 9's lib/keyboard file
> (https://github.com/0intro/plan9/blob/master/lib/keyboard) so I can read the
> characters that I can easily type. :-)

I can't make any promises on behalf of B&H for major works like
substantially increased unicode coverage, let alone entirely new fonts
like a serif proportional or a sans-serif monospace.

Still, out of curiousity, I wrote a program (using the
work-in-progress golang.org/x/image/font/sfnt package, to run it you
will need to sync and patch in
https://go-review.googlesource.com/#/c/36371/) to see what characters
would need to be added to cover that Plan 9 set. The program is
https://play.golang.org/p/ay08vfPpr3 and its output is:

ƀ U+0180 LATIN SMALL LETTER B WITH STROKE
ƕ U+0195 LATIN SMALL LETTER HV
Ɨ U+0197 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH STROKE
ƛ U+019B LATIN SMALL LETTER LAMBDA WITH STROKE
Ƣ U+01A2 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER OI
ƣ U+01A3 LATIN SMALL LETTER OI
Ʀ U+01A6 LATIN LETTER YR
Ʋ U+01B2 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER V WITH HOOK
Ƶ U+01B5 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER Z WITH STROKE
ƶ U+01B6 LATIN SMALL LETTER Z WITH STROKE
ƻ U+01BB LATIN LETTER TWO WITH STROKE
DŽ U+01C4 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER DZ WITH CARON
Dž U+01C5 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER D WITH SMALL LETTER Z WITH CARON
dž U+01C6 LATIN SMALL LETTER DZ WITH CARON
LJ U+01C7 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER LJ
Lj U+01C8 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER L WITH SMALL LETTER J
lj U+01C9 LATIN SMALL LETTER LJ
NJ U+01CA LATIN CAPITAL LETTER NJ
Nj U+01CB LATIN CAPITAL LETTER N WITH SMALL LETTER J
nj U+01CC LATIN SMALL LETTER NJ
Ǎ U+01CD LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH CARON
ǎ U+01CE LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH CARON
Ǐ U+01CF LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH CARON
ǐ U+01D0 LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH CARON
Ǒ U+01D1 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH CARON
ǒ U+01D2 LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH CARON
Ǔ U+01D3 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U WITH CARON
ǔ U+01D4 LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH CARON
Ǖ U+01D5 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U WITH DIAERESIS AND MACRON
ǖ U+01D6 LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH DIAERESIS AND MACRON
Ǘ U+01D7 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U WITH DIAERESIS AND ACUTE
ǘ U+01D8 LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH DIAERESIS AND ACUTE
Ǚ U+01D9 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U WITH DIAERESIS AND CARON
ǚ U+01DA LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH DIAERESIS AND CARON
Ǜ U+01DB LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U WITH DIAERESIS AND GRAVE
ǜ U+01DC LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH DIAERESIS AND GRAVE
Ǟ U+01DE LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS AND MACRON
ǟ U+01DF LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS AND MACRON
Ǡ U+01E0 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH DOT ABOVE AND MACRON
ǡ U+01E1 LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DOT ABOVE AND MACRON
Ǥ U+01E4 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER G WITH STROKE
ǥ U+01E5 LATIN SMALL LETTER G WITH STROKE
Ǧ U+01E6 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER G WITH CARON
ǧ U+01E7 LATIN SMALL LETTER G WITH CARON
Ǩ U+01E8 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER K WITH CARON
ǩ U+01E9 LATIN SMALL LETTER K WITH CARON
Ǫ U+01EA LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH OGONEK
ǫ U+01EB LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH OGONEK
Ǭ U+01EC LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH OGONEK AND MACRON
ǭ U+01ED LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH OGONEK AND MACRON
ǰ U+01F0 LATIN SMALL LETTER J WITH CARON
ɑ U+0251 LATIN SMALL LETTER ALPHA
ɨ U+0268 LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH STROKE
ʉ U+0289 LATIN SMALL LETTER U BAR
ʋ U+028B LATIN SMALL LETTER V WITH HOOK
ʣ U+02A3 LATIN SMALL LETTER DZ DIGRAPH
ϑ U+03D1 GREEK THETA SYMBOL
ϕ U+03D5 GREEK PHI SYMBOL
ϰ U+03F0 GREEK KAPPA SYMBOL
․ U+2024 ONE DOT LEADER
‥ U+2025 TWO DOT LEADER
‽ U+203D INTERROBANG
⁰ U+2070 SUPERSCRIPT ZERO
ⁱ U+2071 SUPERSCRIPT LATIN SMALL LETTER I
⁴ U+2074 SUPERSCRIPT FOUR
⁵ U+2075 SUPERSCRIPT FIVE
⁶ U+2076 SUPERSCRIPT SIX
⁷ U+2077 SUPERSCRIPT SEVEN
⁸ U+2078 SUPERSCRIPT EIGHT
⁹ U+2079 SUPERSCRIPT NINE
⁺ U+207A SUPERSCRIPT PLUS SIGN
⁻ U+207B SUPERSCRIPT MINUS
⁼ U+207C SUPERSCRIPT EQUALS SIGN
⁽ U+207D SUPERSCRIPT LEFT PARENTHESIS
⁾ U+207E SUPERSCRIPT RIGHT PARENTHESIS
₀ U+2080 SUBSCRIPT ZERO
₁ U+2081 SUBSCRIPT ONE
₂ U+2082 SUBSCRIPT TWO
₃ U+2083 SUBSCRIPT THREE
₄ U+2084 SUBSCRIPT FOUR
₅ U+2085 SUBSCRIPT FIVE
₆ U+2086 SUBSCRIPT SIX
₇ U+2087 SUBSCRIPT SEVEN
₈ U+2088 SUBSCRIPT EIGHT
₉ U+2089 SUBSCRIPT NINE
₊ U+208A SUBSCRIPT PLUS SIGN
₋ U+208B SUBSCRIPT MINUS
₌ U+208C SUBSCRIPT EQUALS SIGN
₍ U+208D SUBSCRIPT LEFT PARENTHESIS
₎ U+208E SUBSCRIPT RIGHT PARENTHESIS
ℂ U+2102 DOUBLE-STRUCK CAPITAL C
ℊ U+210A SCRIPT SMALL G
ℋ U+210B SCRIPT CAPITAL H
ℍ U+210D DOUBLE-STRUCK CAPITAL H
ℏ U+210F PLANCK CONSTANT OVER TWO PI
ℐ U+2110 SCRIPT CAPITAL I
ℒ U+2112 SCRIPT CAPITAL L
ℕ U+2115 DOUBLE-STRUCK CAPITAL N
℗ U+2117 SOUND RECORDING COPYRIGHT
℘ U+2118 SCRIPT CAPITAL P
ℙ U+2119 DOUBLE-STRUCK CAPITAL P
ℚ U+211A DOUBLE-STRUCK CAPITAL Q
ℛ U+211B SCRIPT CAPITAL R
ℝ U+211D DOUBLE-STRUCK CAPITAL R
ℤ U+2124 DOUBLE-STRUCK CAPITAL Z
ℬ U+212C SCRIPT CAPITAL B
ℯ U+212F SCRIPT SMALL E
ℰ U+2130 SCRIPT CAPITAL E
ℱ U+2131 SCRIPT CAPITAL F
ℳ U+2133 SCRIPT CAPITAL M
ℴ U+2134 SCRIPT SMALL O
⅓ U+2153 VULGAR FRACTION ONE THIRD
⅔ U+2154 VULGAR FRACTION TWO THIRDS
⅕ U+2155 VULGAR FRACTION ONE FIFTH
⅖ U+2156 VULGAR FRACT

Re: [go-nuts] Go Fonts: request for feedback

[Konstantin Khomoutov]

On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 11:25:20 +1100
Nigel Tao  wrote:

> Bigelow & Holmes, the designers of the Go Fonts, are preparing an
> update to those fonts.
[...]
> If you have any other bug reports, feature requests, or just like to
> comment in general, please reply to the discussion group here, and
> I'll pass it on to B&H.

I'm not really sure my concerns have chances to be addressed these
days, but oh well... ;-)

I, for one, despise antialiasing of fonts.  I have no clear idea about
why is it, but I just can't live with fuzzy-looking letters.  No matter
how great antialiasing algorythm is (I tried ClearType on Windows,
whatever Apple uses in its Mac OS, and FreeType library on GNU/Linux,
I don't like the results).

So, on the systems where I work, I have any sort of antialiasing
disabled.

For some reason some TrueType/OpenType fonts are rendered just OK in
these settings, while others are not.  Unfortunately, Go fonts -- while
I otherwise very much like how they look -- fall into the second
category.  I've attached a bunch of screenshots taken on my GNU/Linux
system which uses FreeType 2.6.3 -- with different font antialiasing
settings.  In particular, please look how Go fonts look on
go-alias-full-no-hinting.png and go-alias-none-no-hinting.png; on the
latter, they are just awkward.

Compare this to how a set of ubiquitous fonts from Microsoft is
rendered with the same settings: ms-alias-none-no-hinting.png -- they
look just great.

For completeness, go-alias-none-full-hinting.png shows that hinting
apparently does not affect the rendering.

(All the screenshots have all text rendered at 12pt on a 97 DPI
display.)

I'm not sure whether this can be fixed (as I have basically zero
knowledge of the inner workings of True/Open-Type fonts) but I would
very much like it fixed, if at all possible.

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Re: [go-nuts] Go Fonts: request for feedback

[Micky]

There are several characteristics of a typeface, which only a typeface
designer can truly understand (unless I'm mistaken if you're one). In
particular, the non-uniform ascenders, crossbar and apex of humanistic
style give the font it's weird typical classic shape.

Most people would know about this non-modern look when I referred to other
modern fonts in my previous reply.

On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 11:39 AM, andrey mirtchovski 
wrote:

> I think the original asked for what exactly is bugging you about the
> font, not a general statement that somebody somewhere doesn't like it
> with a link to a broad discussion on the subject of programming fonts.
> Do you have anything that bothers you about them, maybe in
> relationship with the list of fonts that you cited? What's not
> "looking great" to you?
>
> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 11:20 PM, Micky  wrote:
> > This is a nice initiative.
> >
> > But the font doesn't look great compared to what we already have in the
> OSS
> > toolbelt, e.g. Roboto, Inconsolata, Fira, Open Sans, Office Code, etc.
> >
> > I was hoping for something more extravagant.  Like most people on Hacker
> > News, the font doesn't give me butterflies.
> >
> > That obviously doesn't mean, why others won't find it useful in their
> > projects.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 5:25 AM, Nigel Tao  wrote:
> >>
> >> Bigelow & Holmes, the designers of the Go Fonts, are preparing an
> >> update to those fonts. The changes so far are:
> >>
> >> • adjusted box/chart/shade/split-integral to align vertically
> >> • adjusted shade characters to align vertically & horizontally (more
> >> or less aesthetically)
> >> • merged the contours of ring of Aring U+00C5 with the A
> >> • renamed U+02C9 -> uni02C9 in Bold and Bold Italic to conform to name
> >> in Regular and Italic and avoid name conflict with "macron"
> >> • added U+FFFD "Replacement" character
> >>
> >> If you have any other bug reports, feature requests, or just like to
> >> comment in general, please reply to the discussion group here, and
> >> I'll pass it on to B&H.
> >>
> >> --
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> Groups
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> >
> >
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Re: [go-nuts] Go Fonts: request for feedback

[andrey mirtchovski]

I think the original asked for what exactly is bugging you about the
font, not a general statement that somebody somewhere doesn't like it
with a link to a broad discussion on the subject of programming fonts.
Do you have anything that bothers you about them, maybe in
relationship with the list of fonts that you cited? What's not
"looking great" to you?

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 11:20 PM, Micky  wrote:
> This is a nice initiative.
>
> But the font doesn't look great compared to what we already have in the OSS
> toolbelt, e.g. Roboto, Inconsolata, Fira, Open Sans, Office Code, etc.
>
> I was hoping for something more extravagant.  Like most people on Hacker
> News, the font doesn't give me butterflies.
>
> That obviously doesn't mean, why others won't find it useful in their
> projects.
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 5:25 AM, Nigel Tao  wrote:
>>
>> Bigelow & Holmes, the designers of the Go Fonts, are preparing an
>> update to those fonts. The changes so far are:
>>
>> • adjusted box/chart/shade/split-integral to align vertically
>> • adjusted shade characters to align vertically & horizontally (more
>> or less aesthetically)
>> • merged the contours of ring of Aring U+00C5 with the A
>> • renamed U+02C9 -> uni02C9 in Bold and Bold Italic to conform to name
>> in Regular and Italic and avoid name conflict with "macron"
>> • added U+FFFD "Replacement" character
>>
>> If you have any other bug reports, feature requests, or just like to
>> comment in general, please reply to the discussion group here, and
>> I'll pass it on to B&H.
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "golang-nuts" group.
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>> email to golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>
>
> --
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Re: [go-nuts] Go Fonts: request for feedback

[Micky]

This is a nice initiative.

But the font doesn't look great compared to what we already have in the OSS
toolbelt, e.g. Roboto, Inconsolata, Fira, Open Sans, Office Code, etc.

I was hoping for something more extravagant.  Like most
 people on Hacker News, the
font doesn't give me butterflies.

That obviously doesn't mean, why others won't find it useful in their
projects.

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 5:25 AM, Nigel Tao  wrote:

> Bigelow & Holmes, the designers of the Go Fonts, are preparing an
> update to those fonts. The changes so far are:
>
> • adjusted box/chart/shade/split-integral to align vertically
> • adjusted shade characters to align vertically & horizontally (more
> or less aesthetically)
> • merged the contours of ring of Aring U+00C5 with the A
> • renamed U+02C9 -> uni02C9 in Bold and Bold Italic to conform to name
> in Regular and Italic and avoid name conflict with "macron"
> • added U+FFFD "Replacement" character
>
> If you have any other bug reports, feature requests, or just like to
> comment in general, please reply to the discussion group here, and
> I'll pass it on to B&H.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> email to golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>

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Re: [go-nuts] Go Fonts: request for feedback

[roger peppe]

Perhaps a slightly esoteric request: I'd love to see the fonts made
available in Plan 9 (acme compatible) font format. I tried doing the
conversion and all bar one font size looked terrible. I've gone with that
size and am really enjoying being able to distinguish my els from my pipes,
but it would be great to have more choice. (Of course if anyone has a
decent way of converting already I'd love to know)

More unicode coverage would also be nice. Selfishly I'd like characters for
all those in plan 9's lib/keyboard file (
https://github.com/0intro/plan9/blob/master/lib/keyboard) so I can read the
characters that I can easily type. :-)

  cheers,
rog.

On 3 Feb 2017 15:48, "Matthew Singletary"  wrote:

I would just like to say as a user, the fonts are great and i appreciate
that they are continuing to work on them at all.

Thanks B&H!


On Feb 2, 2017 7:25 PM, "Nigel Tao"  wrote:

Bigelow & Holmes, the designers of the Go Fonts, are preparing an
update to those fonts. The changes so far are:

• adjusted box/chart/shade/split-integral to align vertically
• adjusted shade characters to align vertically & horizontally (more
or less aesthetically)
• merged the contours of ring of Aring U+00C5 with the A
• renamed U+02C9 -> uni02C9 in Bold and Bold Italic to conform to name
in Regular and Italic and avoid name conflict with "macron"
• added U+FFFD "Replacement" character

If you have any other bug reports, feature requests, or just like to
comment in general, please reply to the discussion group here, and
I'll pass it on to B&H.

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[go-nuts] Go Fonts: request for feedback

[lei wu]

the font is great. i wondered whether it is possible to add a sans monospaced 
font. some wierd guy like me myself prefer sans to sans-serif and serif. thanks

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Re: [go-nuts] Go Fonts: request for feedback

[Matthew Singletary]

I would just like to say as a user, the fonts are great and i appreciate
that they are continuing to work on them at all.

Thanks B&H!

On Feb 2, 2017 7:25 PM, "Nigel Tao"  wrote:

Bigelow & Holmes, the designers of the Go Fonts, are preparing an
update to those fonts. The changes so far are:

• adjusted box/chart/shade/split-integral to align vertically
• adjusted shade characters to align vertically & horizontally (more
or less aesthetically)
• merged the contours of ring of Aring U+00C5 with the A
• renamed U+02C9 -> uni02C9 in Bold and Bold Italic to conform to name
in Regular and Italic and avoid name conflict with "macron"
• added U+FFFD "Replacement" character

If you have any other bug reports, feature requests, or just like to
comment in general, please reply to the discussion group here, and
I'll pass it on to B&H.

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Re: [go-nuts] Go Fonts: request for feedback

[Sebastien Binet]

hi,

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 1:25 AM, Nigel Tao  wrote:

> Bigelow & Holmes, the designers of the Go Fonts, are preparing an
> update to those fonts. The changes so far are:
>
> • adjusted box/chart/shade/split-integral to align vertically
> • adjusted shade characters to align vertically & horizontally (more
> or less aesthetically)
> • merged the contours of ring of Aring U+00C5 with the A
> • renamed U+02C9 -> uni02C9 in Bold and Bold Italic to conform to name
> in Regular and Italic and avoid name conflict with "macron"
> • added U+FFFD "Replacement" character
>
> If you have any other bug reports, feature requests, or just like to
> comment in general, please reply to the discussion group here, and
> I'll pass it on to B&H.
>

as reported here [1] and there [2], it would be great if "Go Fonts"
provided proportional-width serif fonts
(ie: Times-{Roman,Bold,Italic,BoldItalic}).
that would allow gonum/plot to migrate from Liberation to Go fonts.

-s

[1]: https://github.com/golang/go/issues/17964
[2]: https://github.com/gonum/plot/issues/326

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[go-nuts] Go Fonts: request for feedback

[Nigel Tao]

Bigelow & Holmes, the designers of the Go Fonts, are preparing an
update to those fonts. The changes so far are:

• adjusted box/chart/shade/split-integral to align vertically
• adjusted shade characters to align vertically & horizontally (more
or less aesthetically)
• merged the contours of ring of Aring U+00C5 with the A
• renamed U+02C9 -> uni02C9 in Bold and Bold Italic to conform to name
in Regular and Italic and avoid name conflict with "macron"
• added U+FFFD "Replacement" character

If you have any other bug reports, feature requests, or just like to
comment in general, please reply to the discussion group here, and
I'll pass it on to B&H.

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