Re: [google-appengine] Re: Understanding Data Writes

[Robert Kluin]

Hey Richard,
  I think a factor could well be the small number of entities you're
removing.  I'm sure there is a good bit of overhead for that small a
batch, but I don't have an exact figure for you (without looking over
their code or doing some tests).

  For 1300 entities, I would try doing:
db.delete(ThatKind.all(keys_only=True).fetch(2000)).  That should take
only a second to run.  If you don't want to bother with uploading
code, set the datastore viewer to show 200 entities and manually
remove them (there's a select all button).  Frankly by doing just a
little more than "db.delete(ThatKind.all(keys_only=True).fetch(500))"
inside a loop within a task you can very rapidly delete quite a lot of
data.

  cursor = None
  while True:
query = ThatKind.all(keys_only=True)
if cursor:
  query.with_cursor(cursor)
keys = query.fetch(500)
cursor = query.cursor()
db.delete(keys)
if len(keys) < 500:
  break

  So, the first thing to note is that I've never been able to
successfully estimate the space exactly.  I can usually get close by
using the numbers in the article, then adding somewhere between a 15%
and 30% "fuzz" factor.  I assume that is the pb overhead, etc
Your estimate will get you in the ballpark though.  The basic idea is
entity count *  (len(your appid) + len(namespace) + len(kind name) +
len(property name) + len(avg property value) + len(avg str(entity
key))).  There's also whatever field separators they're using, so
probably another 5 or so bytes.  As I said, I've got spreadsheets I
use to estimate all this, but it isn't exact.


Robert



On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 04:41, Richard Arrano  wrote:
> Hi Robert,
> Thanks for the quick response! I gathered that the admin would be
> incurring some overhead, but does it seem reasonable that it could
> account for my estimate having been off by nearly a factor of 10? It
> seems like in that case, it would be far cheaper to just write a
> custom entity delete task that does a keys only query and calls
> db.delete on them.
>
> Thanks for the article, I think I understand. To clarify, in the
> example I mentioned, would adding a non-composite EntitiesByProperty
> ASC type index then require 12,000 * (size of EntitiesByProperty ASC
> i.e. 3 str + key + property value) on top of the original storage
> space?
>
> Thanks,
> Rick
>
> On Feb 8, 11:18 pm, Robert Kluin  wrote:
>> Hi Richard,
>>   The datastore admin also incurs some overhead.  At the minimum it
>> will be querying to find the keys that need deleted, so you'll have
>> *at least* 1 additional small operation per entity deleted.  In
>> addition you'll have overhead from the queries, and the shards getting
>> / writing their status entities -- so several more datastore
>> operations per task that was run.  All those add up pretty fast.
>>
>>   You can see how many write operations an entity needs in the SDK's
>> datastore view.  There's not a really good way to easily determine the
>> storage used by an index, I've got a feature request to at least
>> provide details on what existing indexes are using:
>>  http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=2740
>>
>>   There's also an article where this is discussed, note that the
>> article is a little out of date.  It doesn't account for namespaces,
>> so you'll need to factor those in if you're using them.  I usually do
>> my estimates in a spreadsheet.
>>    http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/storage_breakdown.html
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 00:44, Richard Arrano  wrote:
>> > Hello,
>> > I'm having some trouble understanding the billing figures for when I
>> > perform data writes. I had 1300 entities with 1 property indexed and I
>> > kicked off a job via the Datastore Admin to delete them all. Given
>> > that:
>>
>> > Entity Delete (per entity)      2 Writes + 2 Writes per indexed property
>> > value + 1 Write per composite index value
>>
>> > It seems like in that case, for each entity there would be 2 writes +
>> > 2 writes for the 1 indexed property = 4 writes per entity, so 4 * 1300
>> > = 5200 writes used, or ~10% of the daily quota for writes consumed.
>> > However, within seconds, the data was indeed deleted but 100% of my
>> > quota had been consumed(0% had been consumed prior). How was I somehow
>> > off by a factor of 10?
>>
>> > On a related note, is there any tool out there for estimating how much
>> > space will be consumed by a certain object? I.e. I have a huge amount
>> > of one object, around 12,000 and I would love to see how much space
>> > would be consumed with one property indexed as opposed to two.
>>
>> > Thanks,
>> > Rick
>>
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Re: [google-appengine] check number of users (sessions) using my sight

[Robert Kluin]

Unless those are actively cleaned up, the count probably won't be meaningful.



Robert






On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 19:53, Ikai Lan (Google)  wrote:
> You should be able to look at the number of sessions in the datastore (this
> uses the _ah_session Kind), but I don't know how useful this information
> will be for you. What information are you trying to find?
>
> --
> Ikai Lan
> Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
> plus.ikailan.com
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 11:54 AM, tubin gen  wrote:
>>
>> Is there a way to check number of users or httpsession  using my site
>> through admin console ?
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Question about query equality operator docs

[Robert Kluin]

Hi,
  There should be no difference;  the usage is not even consistent within
the SDK code.

  Operator list:

http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/source/browse/trunk/python/google/appengine/ext/db/__init__.py#264

  For some example inconsistencies, read over this method:

http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/source/browse/trunk/python/google/appengine/ext/db/__init__.py#2422

  They default to '==', yet for the 'in' query '=' is used.


Robert




On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 14:12, ckhan  wrote:

> This page
> http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/python/datastore/queries.html lists
> the equality operator as '==' :
>
> The comparison operator can be any of the following:
> OperatorMeaning==Equal to
>
>
> But the examples on that page, and the reference for Query.filter
> http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/python/datastore/queryclass.html#Query_filter
>  use
> '='
>
>
> q.filter("last_name =", "Smith")
>
>
>
> My experiments seem to indicate that either will work.
> Is the table just a typo, or is there a difference?
> -ckhan
>
>
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Re: [google-appengine] check number of users (sessions) using my sight

[Simon Knott]

Hi,

Since the sessions in the datastore aren't cleaned up automatically, isn't 
this likely to just give the total number of sessions that have ever been 
created?

Cheers,
Simon

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RE: [google-appengine] Task Queue Quota Errors, but I have enough quota

[Brandon Wirtz]

Did you tweak your buck and token rate? I have never tried to see how far I
could take it.






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Re: [google-appengine] Task Queue Quota Errors, but I have enough quota

[Robert Kluin]

Hi John,
  BulkAdd is just a level down in the taskqueue stuff, so you're
calling it just not "directly."  I've also occasionally hit this quota
in short bursts, then it will go away.  Are you seeing this for a
prolonged period or just periodically seeing small bursts of the error
in your logs?

  Are you adding 3000 tasks one at a time or in batch inserts?  And
are you saying that each entity produces 10 to 3000 tasks or that
there will be between 10 and 3000 tasks in total?

  If you're inserting very large numbers of tasks rapidly, what
happens if you throttle that back a little?

Robert






On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 15:45, John Wheeler  wrote:
> Hi Robert and Johann, I am not calling BulkAdd at all. However, I am using
> MapReduce, and that might be calling BulkAdd. Inside my MapReduce job, I am
> just adding tasks one at a time to the task queue.
>
> I might add as many as a few thousand tasks per minute.
>
> MapReduce job -> each entity -> 10-3000 tasks
>
> I do not remember having this problem before, but my app has been growing in
> size.
>
> Please advise
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Select field value in the view

[Robert Kluin]

Hi,
  What part doesn't work?  When you view the HTML are the key values
there?  Are you sure the form is submitted via POST and not via GET?
What happens if you use self.request.get('identity')?


Robert




On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 13:38, tejinderss  wrote:
> I have 2 models, 'Identity' and 'Event'. Identity is a
> structuredProperty() in Event model, so in the form i want to pass all
> identities so that i could select while creating Event. So i passed
> all the identities in template like identities = Identitity.query().
> And in the template i could do:
>
> 
> {% for identity in identities %}
> {{ identity.username or
> identity.email }}
> {% endfor %}
>
> Now how do i fetch the identity in the view using this form value?
> identity = self.request.POST.get('identity') does not work. How can i
> fetch it. Please somebody guide me. I am using ndb models.
>
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[google-appengine] Re: Why is App Engine so sloww..

[timh]

The free accounts do use the same infrastructure. Are you sure it's not 
your application.  Also tuning in the control panel for idle instances 
etc... can help.

But you haven't really provided any information on your application, how 
long startup takes, (it looks like 20secs from the image).

You should use appstats to profile your application. Then you can see what 
is in fact going on.

A naively (in terms of how appengine works) developed application is more 
than likely going to run slow.
You need to look at how you are using caching, data model. etc.

Just tried gomez myself for the first time. - Doesn't seem to be very 
reliable.

T

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RE: [google-appengine] Re: Warning: This application is hidden by an alias.

[Brandon Wirtz]

>version should not have "." (dots) like 1.0.1 - should be only integer
numbers!

That's not a bug.  That's a feature. You only get to have Real releases, no
"service releases" those are for wusses. Real programmers don't release
until it's "done".




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[google-appengine] Re: Warning: This application is hidden by an alias.

[Laurentiu Florin Moisa]

found the bug.

version should not have "." (dots) like 1.0.1 - should be only integer 
numbers!

hope it helps!.

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[google-appengine] Re: Warning: This application is hidden by an alias.

[Laurentiu Florin Moisa]

same issue here! newly created app!!

any solution to this?

I can't deploy it ...

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Re: [google-appengine] check number of users (sessions) using my sight

[Ikai Lan (Google)]

You should be able to look at the number of sessions in the datastore (this
uses the _ah_session Kind), but I don't know how useful this information
will be for you. What information are you trying to find?

--
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Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
plus.ikailan.com



On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 11:54 AM, tubin gen  wrote:

> Is there a way to check number of users or httpsession  using my site
> through admin console ?
>
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>

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RE: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Brandon Wirtz]

> >> Brandon, can you set your font back to normal? For some reason I find
> >> that my eyes tend to scan past the blue Times New Roman (that is Times,
> right?).

I live in outlook, I'm trying to pick settings that work for all of you and
for me internally... and things get messed up when I reply in HTML Mode.

But the fix I had pissed off the Azure forum guys.

I am considering setting up an email address just for GAE, but I like that
right now it all dumps in with my other cloud forums... Oh well.



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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Robert Kluin]

I also started noticing that on Brandon's posts a day or two ago I think.



Robert


On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 14:55, Jeff Schnitzer  wrote:
> I don't mind the font, but Brandon whatever you're doing now shows a
> vertical bar to the left of your content exactly the same as Gmail formats
> quoted content.  I keep going through your posts and wondering where the new
> text is only to realize that it is masquerading as quoted content.  Example:
>
> https://img.skitch.com/20120209-nsxbc5tuqf58fmfc4nxmhxp8fs.jpg
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Ikai Lan (Google)  wrote:
>>
>> Brandon, can you set your font back to normal? For some reason I find that
>> my eyes tend to scan past the blue Times New Roman (that is Times, right?).
>> I don't want to miss your messages because the more you post, the more
>> ammunition I can collect for trolling you =P.
>>
>> Jeff, a few of us are using RSS to track new questions. Example feed URL:
>>
>> http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag?tagnames=google-app-engine&sort=newest
>>
>> --
>> Ikai Lan
>> Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
>> plus.ikailan.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >I fear that Neptune has not blessed me with such minions.  Perhaps I'm
>>> > wearing the wrong outfit :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you have kids. I hear they can be trained.  I have a Cat. She doesn’t
>>> do so well with keyboard dexterity which is why there are so many typos in
>>> my posts on days Ivy (PA) isn’t in the office
>>>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Problem with mail quota

[Ikai Lan (Google)]

We're running a batch job right now to fix the issue. Stay tuned.

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On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Greg  wrote:

> I have a large (paid) quota for email, and got a quota exception two
> hours ago. I'm guessing there was a glitch in the mail quota about
> that time.
>
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[google-appengine] Re: What is the email situation now?

[Greg]

We send a few thousand emails a day, and don't suffer too much spam
filtering. It does require work though. Make sure...

- Your messages are unlikely to be flagged as spam.
- You use your own domain name, not *.appspot.com.
- Set up SPF records
- Follow up with ISPs that are filtering and get them to stop.
- Star this issue http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=3161

Cheers
Greg.

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[google-appengine] Re: Problem with mail quota

[Greg]

I have a large (paid) quota for email, and got a quota exception two
hours ago. I'm guessing there was a glitch in the mail quota about
that time.

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Re: [google-appengine] and this, kids, is why we use app engine...

[Jeff Schnitzer]

See:

http://stackexchange.com/about/team

Note:

13 "Software Developer" and 3 "System Administrator", not counting any
potential crossover roles like CTO or Product Manager.

They monkey with hardware because they have lots of bodies with those
particular skills.

Me, I'm allergic to headcount.

Jeff

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 3:31 PM, Richard Watson wrote:

> Andrin, it's pretty much answered here:
>
> http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2010/12/re-launching-stack-exchange-data-explorer/
>
>
> Moved their data explorer service from (free!) Azure to their own servers.
> They like full control, like easy backups, don't like restrictions, know
> their tooling well.  Also, they're likely building out the Nth generation
> of tweaks to a perfectly running money-making engine. Why would they fiddle
> around moving platforms, which would introduce significant
> short/medium/long-term risks? Rather buy a few bigger hard drives and spend
> the time counting their money. Besides, Joel said years ago - never
> rewrite. He'd have a hundred fits if anybody suggested it.
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Task Queue Quota Errors, but I have enough quota

[John Wheeler]

Hi Robert and Johann, I am not calling BulkAdd at all. However, I am using 
MapReduce, and that might be calling BulkAdd. Inside my MapReduce job, I am 
just adding tasks one at a time to the task queue. 

I might add as many as a few thousand tasks per minute.

MapReduce job -> each entity -> 10-3000 tasks

I do not remember having this problem before, but my app has been growing 
in size.

Please advise

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Re: [google-appengine] and this, kids, is why we use app engine...

[Richard Watson]

Andrin, it's pretty much answered here:
http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2010/12/re-launching-stack-exchange-data-explorer/
 

Moved their data explorer service from (free!) Azure to their own servers. 
They like full control, like easy backups, don't like restrictions, know 
their tooling well.  Also, they're likely building out the Nth generation 
of tweaks to a perfectly running money-making engine. Why would they fiddle 
around moving platforms, which would introduce significant 
short/medium/long-term risks? Rather buy a few bigger hard drives and spend 
the time counting their money. Besides, Joel said years ago - never 
rewrite. He'd have a hundred fits if anybody suggested it.

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Johan Euphrosine]

I think that might be due to:
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:55 PM, Jeff Schnitzer  wrote:
> I don't mind the font, but Brandon whatever you're doing now shows a
> vertical bar to the left of your content exactly the same as Gmail formats
> quoted content.  I keep going through your posts and wondering where the new
> text is only to realize that it is masquerading as quoted content.  Example:
>
> https://img.skitch.com/20120209-nsxbc5tuqf58fmfc4nxmhxp8fs.jpg
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Ikai Lan (Google)  wrote:
>>
>> Brandon, can you set your font back to normal? For some reason I find that
>> my eyes tend to scan past the blue Times New Roman (that is Times, right?).
>> I don't want to miss your messages because the more you post, the more
>> ammunition I can collect for trolling you =P.
>>
>> Jeff, a few of us are using RSS to track new questions. Example feed URL:
>>
>> http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag?tagnames=google-app-engine&sort=newest
>>
>> --
>> Ikai Lan
>> Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
>> plus.ikailan.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >I fear that Neptune has not blessed me with such minions.  Perhaps I'm
>>> > wearing the wrong outfit :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you have kids. I hear they can be trained.  I have a Cat. She doesn’t
>>> do so well with keyboard dexterity which is why there are so many typos in
>>> my posts on days Ivy (PA) isn’t in the office
>>>
>>> --
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>>> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>>
>>
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>
>
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[google-appengine] Re: Problem with mail quota

[Kaan Soral]

Me

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Jeff Schnitzer]

I don't mind the font, but Brandon whatever you're doing now shows a
vertical bar to the left of your content exactly the same as Gmail formats
quoted content.  I keep going through your posts and wondering where the
new text is only to realize that it is masquerading as quoted content.
 Example:

https://img.skitch.com/20120209-nsxbc5tuqf58fmfc4nxmhxp8fs.jpg

Jeff


On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Ikai Lan (Google)  wrote:

> Brandon, can you set your font back to normal? For some reason I find that
> my eyes tend to scan past the blue Times New Roman (that is Times, right?).
> I don't want to miss your messages because the more you post, the more
> ammunition I can collect for trolling you =P.
>
> Jeff, a few of us are using RSS to track new questions. Example feed URL:
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag?tagnames=google-app-engine&sort=newest
>
> --
> Ikai Lan
> Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
> plus.ikailan.com
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:
>
>> ** **
>>
>> >I fear that Neptune has not blessed me with such minions.  Perhaps I'm
>> wearing the wrong outfit :-)
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Do you have kids. I hear they can be trained.  I have a Cat. She doesn’t
>> do so well with keyboard dexterity which is why there are so many typos in
>> my posts on days Ivy (PA) isn’t in the office
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Google App Engine" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>>
>
>  --
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[google-appengine] check number of users (sessions) using my sight

[tubin gen]

Is there a way to check number of users or httpsession  using my site
through admin console ?

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[google-appengine] Re: and this, kids, is why we use app engine...

[Rick Mangi]

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35zzsl/

On Feb 7, 3:27 pm, "Ikai Lan (Google)"  wrote:
> http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35xwv3/(great series if you haven't read it
> before, my highest recommendations - thank you Nick Johnson for
> consistently good book recommendations)
>
> Did you sign up for the trusted tester program? Now with less deleting of
> data (please don't index data that you don't want wiped during the trusted
> tester - back it up in datastore).
>
> --
> Ikai Lan
> Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
> plus.ikailan.com
>
> On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Kenneth wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >http://nickcraver.com/blog/2012/02/07/stack-overflow-short-on-space/
>
> > (ok, so it might be a bit expensive, and we still need full text search)
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Google App Engine" group.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/FZHq2cjNAQoJ.
> > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.

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[google-appengine] Question about query equality operator docs

[ckhan]

This page 
http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/python/datastore/queries.html lists 
the equality operator as '==' :

The comparison operator can be any of the following:
OperatorMeaning==Equal to


But the examples on that page, and the reference for Query.filter 
http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/python/datastore/queryclass.html#Query_filter
 use 
'='


q.filter("last_name =", "Smith")



My experiments seem to indicate that either will work.
Is the table just a typo, or is there a difference?
-ckhan


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[google-appengine] Select field value in the view

[tejinderss]

I have 2 models, 'Identity' and 'Event'. Identity is a
structuredProperty() in Event model, so in the form i want to pass all
identities so that i could select while creating Event. So i passed
all the identities in template like identities = Identitity.query().
And in the template i could do:


{% for identity in identities %}
{{ identity.username or
identity.email }}
{% endfor %}

Now how do i fetch the identity in the view using this form value?
identity = self.request.POST.get('identity') does not work. How can i
fetch it. Please somebody guide me. I am using ndb models.

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Re: [google-appengine] Python Devs near Phoenix AZ (or remote)

[Ikai Lan (Google)]

Hey, congrats, Brandon! Best of luck. I'm guessing you're posting here
because this is launching on GAE? It wasn't clear in the original email.

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On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 11:36 PM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

> My signature may change shortly. I have taken a position with a startup
> that I am very excited about. I’d tell you a lot more but it’s pretty
> stealth.
>
> ** **
>
> I am looking for 2 Python devs, who are located near, or willing to be in
> Scottsdale, AZ.   I promise you shit pay, and lots of work. But you get to
> work with me, and as you have seen from this list I’m grumpy, evil, funny,
> and rarely dull. 
>
> ** **
>
> I have only spent 12 hours total in AZ so I can’t tell you if the weather
> is awesome.  We don’t have the Office yet, so I can’t tell you if you get a
> private office or a just a desk.  We are well funded ($2m First round). **
> **
>
> ** **
>
> We will be building a series of API’s that connect to a client that
> another team under me will be building. But if you really enjoy writing
> “Lego Pieces” this is your chance. I’m not going to bog you down with
> UX/UI. None of that pesky is my response HTML5 compliant. This is
> programming for those of us who stare in to the matrix.
>
> ** **
>
> Drop me a line off list if you want to apply.   I am giving first
> preference to people who are nearby, but if you can work remotely that I
> can consider that as well.   Be prepared to video conference, and that
> means putting on a shirt and pants.
>
> ** **
>
> -Brandon
>
> CTO / VP Product Development at Undisclosed Startup in AZ
>
> ** **
>
> *Brandon Wirtz
> *BlackWaterOps: President / Lead Mercenary 
>
> [image: Description:
> http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/bg_slate_385x42.jpg]
>
> *Work:* 510-992-6548
> *Toll Free:* 866-400-4536 
>
> *IM:* drak...@gmail.com (Google Talk)
> *Skype:* drakegreene
> *YouTube:* BlackWaterOpsDotCom
>
> 
>
> BlackWater Ops 
>
> Cloud On A String Mastermind Group *
>
> *
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> --
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<>

Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Robert Kluin]

This is actually my biggest complaint about SO as well.  It is far
outside my usual workflow.  I also prefer the "gmail groups
interface."  I guess I need to try the RSS stuff, but I don't
currently watch any RSS feeds -- so this is outside my normal flow as
well.



Robert


On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:02, Jeff Schnitzer  wrote:
> What's a good workflow for dealing with stackoverflow that doesn't involve
> going and checking on the actual website?  If it doesn't show up in my inbox
> or RSS reader (or sometimes hackernews) it might as well not exist to me.
>
> So far getting an email digest for the google-app-engine just does not cut
> it.  My workflow here in Gmail is reasonable - I have a list of all the
> appengine-related emails stored in a label, with filters that automatically
> star messages a few choice keywords.  The stackoverflow digest not only
> evades my priority filter but actually forces me to read through a lengthy
> email.  Not going to happen.
>
> Is RSS the way to go?  Any special tricks?
>
> Jeff
>
> --
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Ikai Lan (Google)]

Brandon, can you set your font back to normal? For some reason I find that
my eyes tend to scan past the blue Times New Roman (that is Times, right?).
I don't want to miss your messages because the more you post, the more
ammunition I can collect for trolling you =P.

Jeff, a few of us are using RSS to track new questions. Example feed URL:

http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag?tagnames=google-app-engine&sort=newest

--
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Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
plus.ikailan.com



On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

> ** **
>
> >I fear that Neptune has not blessed me with such minions.  Perhaps I'm
> wearing the wrong outfit :-)
>
> ** **
>
> Do you have kids. I hear they can be trained.  I have a Cat. She doesn’t
> do so well with keyboard dexterity which is why there are so many typos in
> my posts on days Ivy (PA) isn’t in the office
>
> --
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> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>

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RE: [google-appengine] and this, kids, is why we use app engine...

[Brandon Wirtz]

>I think the only reason why one shouldn't use AppEngine is restrictions and
the hardness of overcoming those restrictions

 

I think a Girlfriend said the same thing about me once.

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RE: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Brandon Wirtz]

 

>I fear that Neptune has not blessed me with such minions.  Perhaps I'm
wearing the wrong outfit :-)

 

Do you have kids. I hear they can be trained.  I have a Cat. She doesn't do
so well with keyboard dexterity which is why there are so many typos in my
posts on days Ivy (PA) isn't in the office

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Jeff Schnitzer]

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

> >Is RSS the way to go?  Any special tricks?
>
> ** **
>
> I have my personal assistant read all the messages and flag the important
> ones, and occasionally post my canned response if I have posted the same
> thing more than once.  Probably getting your PA to do the same would be
> good, at least until he/she can build a set of filters to do all of that
> for you.
>
>
I fear that Neptune has not blessed me with such minions.  Perhaps I'm
wearing the wrong outfit :-)

I'll try adding the tags to Google Reader.  The Chrome Plugin is
interesting but it's still outside my normal workflow.  I have to admit
that I have mixed feelings about this particular change, although I can see
the greater good.

Jeff

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RE: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Brandon Wirtz]

>Is RSS the way to go?  Any special tricks?

 

I have my personal assistant read all the messages and flag the important
ones, and occasionally post my canned response if I have posted the same
thing more than once.  Probably getting your PA to do the same would be
good, at least until he/she can build a set of filters to do all of that for
you.

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Johan Euphrosine]

Hi Jeff,

You can also check this Chrome extension which tracks pending
questions for a list of tags:
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/bnnkhapbhkejookmhgpgaikfdoegkmdp

Currently the lowest level of granularly for email is a digest every
15 min, monitoring tag RSS feeds with an email gateway (built on App
Engine!) might be a good way to get instant email notification for
individual question.

There seems to be a few projects already doing that:
https://github.com/jmhobbs/RSS-Engine

Let us know if you would be interested by setting up something like
this for the community.

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Jeff Schnitzer  wrote:
> What's a good workflow for dealing with stackoverflow that doesn't involve
> going and checking on the actual website?  If it doesn't show up in my inbox
> or RSS reader (or sometimes hackernews) it might as well not exist to me.
>
> So far getting an email digest for the google-app-engine just does not cut
> it.  My workflow here in Gmail is reasonable - I have a list of all the
> appengine-related emails stored in a label, with filters that automatically
> star messages a few choice keywords.  The stackoverflow digest not only
> evades my priority filter but actually forces me to read through a lengthy
> email.  Not going to happen.
>
> Is RSS the way to go?  Any special tricks?
>
> Jeff
>
> --
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-- 
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Jeff Schnitzer]

What's a good workflow for dealing with stackoverflow that doesn't involve
going and checking on the actual website?  If it doesn't show up in my
inbox or RSS reader (or sometimes hackernews) it might as well not exist to
me.

So far getting an email digest for the google-app-engine just does not cut
it.  My workflow here in Gmail is reasonable - I have a list of all the
appengine-related emails stored in a label, with filters that automatically
star messages a few choice keywords.  The stackoverflow digest not only
evades my priority filter but actually forces me to read through a lengthy
email.  Not going to happen.

Is RSS the way to go?  Any special tricks?

Jeff

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Re: [google-appengine] What is the email situation now?

[Johan Euphrosine]

Hi Kaan,

App Engine relies on Google infrastructure to send email, and if your
contents get marked as spam by users the reputation of the sender
address will be affected.

You should review Bulk Senders Guidelines for best practices:
http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=81126

Also if you are sending email from a Google Apps domain, your trust
also depend from your Google Apps plan.

Hope that helps.

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 7:54 AM, James Broberg  wrote:
> Use Amazon SES and save yourself the heartache.
>
> On 9 February 2012 17:21, Robert Kluin  wrote:
>> Yes, it frequently happens.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 11:51, Kaan Soral  wrote:
>>> Is it still the same? Are emails sent from gae marked as spam?
>>> Thanks in Advance
>>>
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Re: [google-appengine] Task Queue Quota Errors, but I have enough quota

[Johan Euphrosine]

Hi John,

How often are you calling BulkAdd per minute?

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:05 AM, Robert Kluin  wrote:
> Hey John,
>  Just wondering, are you seeing those when inserting really large
> batches or just a few tasks?
>
>
>
> Robert
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 21:31, John Wheeler  wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am experiencing the error: The API call taskqueue.BulkAdd() required more
>> quota than is available.
>>
>> I am sure I have enough quota. I have 1 Gig allocated to task queue stored
>> task bytes (and the green meter on the task queue page goes less than
>> half-way), and I'm nowhere near even the free stored task call and API call
>> limits.
>>
>> This seems to be a new problem I've been experiencing (last few days).
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> John
>>
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Re: [google-appengine] Python Devs near Phoenix AZ (or remote)

[alex]

Wait.. what? A shirt? 
Damn, there I was hoping for a mermaid costume. That's the real deal 
breaker.

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[google-appengine] Re: newbie: Javadoc on Eclipse

[Criscoso]

Another user asked me for a work around, I found a work around for
that, but I forgot to post it here, sorry.

Workaround:
1- Find the real jar files path from App Engine (/eclipse/plugins/
com.google...), you can find the exact path by expanding the App
Engine SDK node in your project.
2- Edit your project properties, go to Java Build Path, Libraries tab,
and add those same jar files as External JARs. Go to Order tab and put
those new external references before the App Engine SDK and Apply
(close).
3- Then go to Referenced Libraries node in your project and edit the
javadoc location for those external JARs. Eclipse will remember the
javadoc locations!!!
Remember to repeat this if you change or update the App Engine.

By the way, a little more help (from Google) to new users will be
really appreciated!!
El jueves 22 de septiembre de 2011 17:45:36 UTC+2, Criscoso escribió:
>
> Hi all, 
>
> I'm new on Google App Engine and relatively new on Eclipse-Indigo 
> (I've been playing around with Android development for several 
> months). 
>
> I successfully created and ran an online app engine sample project. 
> I'm new to many of the Java classes involved, so I would like to have 
> Javadoc for basically javax and jdo, but is not available in the SDK. 
>
> I fight for that for hours (Eclipse is big and has many many options) 
> and finally find a way to activate Javadoc on Eclipse, by changing the 
> Javadoc path for servlet-api.jar and jdo2-api-2.3-eb.jar packages on 
> the App Engine SDK node in my project. 
>
> I've installed glassfish3 to get javadoc for servlet (path: file:/ 
> Users/cristian/glassfish3/glassfish/docs/api/) 
> I couldn't find the javadoc zip file for jdo 2.3, only jdo 2.2 or jdo 
> 3, and find somewhere that location 
> http://db.apache.org/jdo/api23/apidocs/, 
> that works fine. 
>
> Everything seems to work fine but, after each Eclipse restart, this 2 
> paths are forgotten and replaced by the default SDK paths. 
>
> Please! someone can brought me some light on that? 
> Which is the correct way to enable Javadoc for the packages that don't 
> have documentation in the SDK? 
>
> Thanks a lot!! 
>
> Cristian

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[google-appengine] Re: newbie: Javadoc on Eclipse

[Criscoso]

Another user asked me for a work around, I found a work around for
that, but I forgot to post it here, sorry.

Workaround:
1- Find the real jar files path from App Engine (/eclipse/plugins/
com.google...), you can find the exact path by expanding the App
Engine SDK node in your project.
2- Edit your project properties, go to Java Build Path, Libraries tab,
and add those same jar files as External JARs. Go to Order tab and put
those new external references before the App Engine SDK and Apply
(close).
3- Then go to Referenced Libraries node in your project and edit the
javadoc location for those external JARs. Eclipse will remember the
javadoc locations!!!
Remember to repeat this if you change or update the App Engine.

By the way, a little more help (from Google) to new users will be
really appreciated!!

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Re: [google-appengine] Resetting a appengine app

[Johan Euphrosine]

Hi Davey,

There is currently no quick (and cheap) way to reset the datastore of
an application.

I would suggest deploying your code to a new application if you want
to get rid of all your data.

Hope that helps.

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 1:34 AM, Davey  wrote:
> Id like to reset my appengine app, deleting EVERYTHING that happened to it,
> is there a way to do this without deleting the project itself?
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Understanding my Quota

[Johan Euphrosine]

Hi Sep,

Datastore operations and how they map to API calls is documented here:
http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/billing.html

Hope that helps.

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:30 AM, sep  wrote:
> Hi I would like to understand the difference between a Datastore Read
> Operations and a UrlFetch API Calls i was thinking that i could call
> my service 657,084 times for free per day, but I used 14% of my
> Datastore Read Operations doing hardly any calls... so I am confused :
> ( and could you tell me was is this "0.00 of 0.05 Million Ops"
> means ???
>
> Thanks ( sorry for the noob questions... )
>
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[google-appengine] Re: Warning: This application is hidden by an alias.

[Rory Haddon]

Getting the same problem here also. There's no good explanation for
it.

On Feb 4, 3:09 pm, "Wire C. Allmaps"  wrote:
> I'm receiving the following error for any Google App Engine app I try to
> create:
>
> Warning: This application is hidden by an alias.
> The application  has an alias that causes it to recieve all
> traffic normally directed at this one. Unless you are looking for
> historical data, you probably want to see that application.
>
> Clicking on the link takes me to the same page with the same error.
>
> Thanks!

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[google-appengine] Re: How to achieve Twtter of FB-like dynamism on Appengine

[Marcelo Nunes]

This is an idea that I just had. 

What if you group users in clusters? On Facebook I have friends that are 
relatives, coworkers, other professional contacts, classmates from college, 
dozens of fellow Rush fans, some celebrities with millions of followers, 
and some people that I randomly met. Each of these groups of friends makes 
a cluster which  is possible to identify automatically by analyzing the 
graph of relationships among users. I think, every good book on graphs and 
data structures has a couple of algorithms that does just that.

I believe that an user with 1k relationships may be a member of no more 
than one or two dozens of clusters, thus you could record updates on a 
"Cluster entity and not on the user and when the user queries its updates 
you just have to read the updates on all clusters that the user is a member 
of. 

You could even use a cache for online users, make smaller clusters for most 
active users, organize clusters on an hierarchical mode to make it more 
scalable, and so on. But, of course it is just an idea that I haven't 
tested. 

[]s


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[google-appengine] Understanding my Quota

[sep]

Hi I would like to understand the difference between a Datastore Read
Operations and a UrlFetch API Calls i was thinking that i could call
my service 657,084 times for free per day, but I used 14% of my
Datastore Read Operations doing hardly any calls... so I am confused :
( and could you tell me was is this "0.00 of 0.05 Million Ops"
means ???

Thanks ( sorry for the noob questions... )

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[google-appengine] Resetting a appengine app

[Davey]

Id like to reset my appengine app, deleting EVERYTHING that happened to it, 
is there a way to do this without deleting the project itself?

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[google-appengine] Re: Understanding Data Writes

[Richard Arrano]

Hi Robert,
Thanks for the quick response! I gathered that the admin would be
incurring some overhead, but does it seem reasonable that it could
account for my estimate having been off by nearly a factor of 10? It
seems like in that case, it would be far cheaper to just write a
custom entity delete task that does a keys only query and calls
db.delete on them.

Thanks for the article, I think I understand. To clarify, in the
example I mentioned, would adding a non-composite EntitiesByProperty
ASC type index then require 12,000 * (size of EntitiesByProperty ASC
i.e. 3 str + key + property value) on top of the original storage
space?

Thanks,
Rick

On Feb 8, 11:18 pm, Robert Kluin  wrote:
> Hi Richard,
>   The datastore admin also incurs some overhead.  At the minimum it
> will be querying to find the keys that need deleted, so you'll have
> *at least* 1 additional small operation per entity deleted.  In
> addition you'll have overhead from the queries, and the shards getting
> / writing their status entities -- so several more datastore
> operations per task that was run.  All those add up pretty fast.
>
>   You can see how many write operations an entity needs in the SDK's
> datastore view.  There's not a really good way to easily determine the
> storage used by an index, I've got a feature request to at least
> provide details on what existing indexes are using:
>  http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=2740
>
>   There's also an article where this is discussed, note that the
> article is a little out of date.  It doesn't account for namespaces,
> so you'll need to factor those in if you're using them.  I usually do
> my estimates in a spreadsheet.
>    http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/storage_breakdown.html
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 00:44, Richard Arrano  wrote:
> > Hello,
> > I'm having some trouble understanding the billing figures for when I
> > perform data writes. I had 1300 entities with 1 property indexed and I
> > kicked off a job via the Datastore Admin to delete them all. Given
> > that:
>
> > Entity Delete (per entity)      2 Writes + 2 Writes per indexed property
> > value + 1 Write per composite index value
>
> > It seems like in that case, for each entity there would be 2 writes +
> > 2 writes for the 1 indexed property = 4 writes per entity, so 4 * 1300
> > = 5200 writes used, or ~10% of the daily quota for writes consumed.
> > However, within seconds, the data was indeed deleted but 100% of my
> > quota had been consumed(0% had been consumed prior). How was I somehow
> > off by a factor of 10?
>
> > On a related note, is there any tool out there for estimating how much
> > space will be consumed by a certain object? I.e. I have a huge amount
> > of one object, around 12,000 and I would love to see how much space
> > would be consumed with one property indexed as opposed to two.
>
> > Thanks,
> > Rick
>
> > --
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Re: [google-appengine] one-to-many pricing of GAE

[Iván Rodríguez]

Depends on the shape of your data. I recommend you to use indexed key or
relation index "pattern", only if the size is bigger than 100.

IF (List>.size() > 100) USE indexed property or relation index.

I hope it will help.



2012/2/9 Robert Kluin 

> Hi Steven,
>  Some responses inline.
>
> Robert
>
> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 11:26, steven  wrote:
> > Hi:
> >
> > Thank you in advance
> >
> > I have a question about Datastore API calls.
> >
> > Suppose I have a one-to-many relation ship, with two solutions as
> > below:
> >
> > 1) solution 1
> > class A
> > {
> >set keys_for_B
> > }
> >
> > the instance is a1 contains 
> >
> > if I query for a1, and then I can get keys of b1, b2, b3; and then I
> > read the b1, b2, b3.
> > Does it mean there are 4 calls to datastore API calls?
>
> If you *query* for a1, then do a bulk get on those keys you'll have:
> query -> 1 scan + 1 fetch = 2 reads
> bulk get -> 3 reads
>
> So you'll have 5 reads.  If you know A1's key, then you could do a get
> there too which would save 1 read.
>
>
> >
> >
> > 2) solution 2
> > I build a "big-table" as
> > a1, b1
> > a1, b2
> > a1, b3
> >
> > and then query as "select * from mytable where a_id = a1_id", to get 3
> > rows
> > I guess there is just one call, to datastore.
>
>
> Generally, I would prefer the first design over introducing a third
> lookup table.
>
>
> Another solution here might be to include a1 as a property on your "B"
> entities, possibly as an indexed list property.  Then you could do one
> query for Bs where a = 'a1'.  This would give you 4 reads, 1 for the
> scan + 3 for the entities.
>
>
>
>
> >
> > comparing solution 1 and 2, does it mean Google will charge me 4 times
> > money for solution 1?
> >
> > thank you very much,
> > Sincerely,
> > Steven
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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> >
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Re: [google-appengine] How to achieve Twtter of FB-like dynamism on Appengine

[Pieter Coucke]

If you need more memcache, did anybody check Amazon Elasticache (
http://aws.amazon.com/elasticache/) ?

Not sure if the network latency makes it better than the datastore and how
to secure it to have only access from our app



On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

> GAE memcache is limited. 
>
> ** **
>
> I’m about to crash so here is how  I’d do it really fast.
>
> ** **
>
> User A posts update. 
>
> All Subscribed users get marker to check for updates
>
> 
>
> If UserB has Marker to check for updates he does.
>
> If no marker last “report” is repeated.
>
> ** **
>
> Marker is a single byte you can keep lots of them in memcache.
>
> ** **
>
> GAE is going to be expensive because you basically have to plan on 1 read
> and write per update from the user and 1 read for each updated online
> friend, and 1 write for the final version
>
> ** **
>
> If average user is online 1 hour a day, and during their hour they see 20
> updates. That is  40 reads and 20 writes
>
> ** **
>
> And you can’t very well miss stuff, though Fb and twitter do… but they
> have as much memcache as they want. We don’t.
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *Brandon Wirtz
> *BlackWaterOps: President / Lead Mercenary 
>
> [image: Description:
> http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/bg_slate_385x42.jpg]
>
> *Work:* 510-992-6548
> *Toll Free:* 866-400-4536 
>
> *IM:* drak...@gmail.com (Google Talk)
> *Skype:* drakegreene
> *YouTube:* BlackWaterOpsDotCom
>
> 
>
> BlackWater Ops 
>
> Cloud On A String Mastermind Group *
>
> *
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> google-appengine@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Kaan Soral
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:14 AM
> *To:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* [google-appengine] How to achieve Twtter of FB-like dynamism
> on Appengine
>
> ** **
>
> I have searched "twitter" in this group and went back 1 year in posts but
> couldn't find anything but I remember a discussion like this before
>
> *Problem:*
> On both Twtter and FB, when you visit their Homepage, you see a summary of
> what your friends or interests are doing.
> You might have up to 1000 of these on average.
> How to combine this information?
>
> *Some thinking:
> *a) A naive approach would be to query for everyone, every time =
> impossible-ish
> b) To make this naive approach work we might determine popular friends of
> a user and achieve a query once, construct a callback for near time updates
> approach (to achieve real time info)
> c) Another approach is to not query at all but update everyone who are
> subscribed to a user, when that user posts an action
> This would work for FB I guess, but for Twtter, considering some people
> have 1Ms of followers, this may be a problem
> But the complexity is the sum of all followers over the network, and this
> number may be low, considering not everyone has that many followers, so
> this might be worth it
>
>
> I am leaning over the (c) method, what do you guys think, how would you
> implement these Social Networks?
> (I combined these 2 networks in the problem definition, but you may
> provide separate solutions)
>
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-- 
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RE: [google-appengine] How to achieve Twtter of FB-like dynamism on Appengine

[Brandon Wirtz]

GAE memcache is limited. 

 

I'm about to crash so here is how  I'd do it really fast.

 

User A posts update. 

All Subscribed users get marker to check for updates



If UserB has Marker to check for updates he does.

If no marker last "report" is repeated.

 

Marker is a single byte you can keep lots of them in memcache.

 

GAE is going to be expensive because you basically have to plan on 1 read
and write per update from the user and 1 read for each updated online
friend, and 1 write for the final version

 

If average user is online 1 hour a day, and during their hour they see 20
updates. That is  40 reads and 20 writes

 

And you can't very well miss stuff, though Fb and twitter do. but they have
as much memcache as they want. We don't.

 

 

 


Brandon Wirtz 
BlackWaterOps: President / Lead Mercenary 

Description: http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/bg_slate_385x42.jpg



Work: 510-992-6548 
Toll Free: 866-400-4536 

IM: drak...@gmail.com (Google Talk) 
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  Cloud On A String Mastermind Group





 

 

From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
[mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kaan Soral
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:14 AM
To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
Subject: [google-appengine] How to achieve Twtter of FB-like dynamism on
Appengine

 

I have searched "twitter" in this group and went back 1 year in posts but
couldn't find anything but I remember a discussion like this before

Problem:
On both Twtter and FB, when you visit their Homepage, you see a summary of
what your friends or interests are doing.
You might have up to 1000 of these on average.
How to combine this information?

Some thinking:
a) A naive approach would be to query for everyone, every time =
impossible-ish
b) To make this naive approach work we might determine popular friends of a
user and achieve a query once, construct a callback for near time updates
approach (to achieve real time info)
c) Another approach is to not query at all but update everyone who are
subscribed to a user, when that user posts an action
This would work for FB I guess, but for Twtter, considering some people have
1Ms of followers, this may be a problem
But the complexity is the sum of all followers over the network, and this
number may be low, considering not everyone has that many followers, so this
might be worth it


I am leaning over the (c) method, what do you guys think, how would you
implement these Social Networks?
(I combined these 2 networks in the problem definition, but you may provide
separate solutions)

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<>