Re: [google-appengine] Re: Cloud NDB is now GA

[Jon Grover]

I've gone through your repos for code examples but it hadn't occurred to me 
to actually pull them down and run them for performance comparisons, but 
I'll do that now. Thanks once again!

Also, so as not to detract from the thread origin too much: Thanks also to 
Andrew and the rest of the Cloud NDB team. They've been incredibly 
responsive on the Github issues tracker and this library is a lifesaver for 
people trying to migrate legacy apps off Python 2. There's a really good 
chance that without this library we might simply have scrapped our app 
completely. Your work is appreciated, guys!

On Sunday, March 1, 2020 at 9:48:55 PM UTC-8, Ryan B wrote:
>
> On Sunday, March 1, 2020 at 2:44:04 PM UTC-8, Jon Grover wrote:
>>
>> I've found that entering/exiting context in the setUp/tearDown methods 
>> (as you do in your example) is adding about 0.7s to each of my tests, so 
>> I'm wondering how you're able to do 500 tests in 52s (works out to 0.1s per 
>> test). Perhaps it's machine dependent; I'm running these tests on a 2015 
>> MacBook Pro, so maybe they'd be faster on something newer.
>>
>
> hmm! i'm actually on a 2014 MBP, so i doubt it's your hardware. feel free 
> to poke at that repo, stack, and test suite if you want to see if you can 
> find a difference. all of the tests use that base HandlerTest class, 
> unittest, and mox3.
>
>  
>
>> On Saturday, February 29, 2020 at 8:22:35 PM UTC-8, Ryan B wrote:
>>>
>>> the datastore emulator is indeed slower than testbed for unit tests, but 
>>> just as another data point, it's not way too slow for me. i routinely use 
>>> it as part of my edit/compile/test loop on an app with a cumulative total 
>>> of >1600 tests. around 500 of them use the datastore heavily, and running 
>>> just those tests takes ~52s. not fast, but manageable, especially when i 
>>> iterate on just a few relevant tests, and then expand to all of them before 
>>> committing.
>>>
>>> also, you don't have to entirely tear down and restart the emulator just 
>>> to clear its data between tests. just POST to 
>>> http://localhost:8089/reset (or whichever port you run the emulator 
>>> on). example: 
>>> https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/blob/master/tests/testutil.py#L282-L289
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, February 24, 2020 at 1:05:33 PM UTC-8, Remko Tronçon wrote:

 On Monday, February 24, 2020 at 9:52:25 PM UTC+1, Andrew Gorcester 
 wrote: 
 > Cloud NDB is compatible with the Cloud Datastore Emulator; we 
 recommend tests be done using that, the same way on Cloud NDB as they 
 would 
 be with the Cloud Datastore library. 

 Using an external emulator is way too slow to use for unit tests, even 
 if you are able to get all your code changed so you don’ have to tear down 
 and clean start the emulator to avoid interference between tests. This is 
 pretty disappointing, and means I (and I expect many others) will be 
 forced 
 to rewrite everything if your app isn’t in pure maintenance mode. 

 Remko 

>>>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Cloud NDB is now GA

[Ryan B]

On Sunday, March 1, 2020 at 2:44:04 PM UTC-8, Jon Grover wrote:
>
> I've found that entering/exiting context in the setUp/tearDown methods (as 
> you do in your example) is adding about 0.7s to each of my tests, so I'm 
> wondering how you're able to do 500 tests in 52s (works out to 0.1s per 
> test). Perhaps it's machine dependent; I'm running these tests on a 2015 
> MacBook Pro, so maybe they'd be faster on something newer.
>

hmm! i'm actually on a 2014 MBP, so i doubt it's your hardware. feel free 
to poke at that repo, stack, and test suite if you want to see if you can 
find a difference. all of the tests use that base HandlerTest class, 
unittest, and mox3.

 

> On Saturday, February 29, 2020 at 8:22:35 PM UTC-8, Ryan B wrote:
>>
>> the datastore emulator is indeed slower than testbed for unit tests, but 
>> just as another data point, it's not way too slow for me. i routinely use 
>> it as part of my edit/compile/test loop on an app with a cumulative total 
>> of >1600 tests. around 500 of them use the datastore heavily, and running 
>> just those tests takes ~52s. not fast, but manageable, especially when i 
>> iterate on just a few relevant tests, and then expand to all of them before 
>> committing.
>>
>> also, you don't have to entirely tear down and restart the emulator just 
>> to clear its data between tests. just POST to http://localhost:8089/reset 
>> (or whichever port you run the emulator on). example: 
>> https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/blob/master/tests/testutil.py#L282-L289
>>
>>
>> On Monday, February 24, 2020 at 1:05:33 PM UTC-8, Remko Tronçon wrote:
>>>
>>> On Monday, February 24, 2020 at 9:52:25 PM UTC+1, Andrew Gorcester 
>>> wrote: 
>>> > Cloud NDB is compatible with the Cloud Datastore Emulator; we 
>>> recommend tests be done using that, the same way on Cloud NDB as they would 
>>> be with the Cloud Datastore library. 
>>>
>>> Using an external emulator is way too slow to use for unit tests, even 
>>> if you are able to get all your code changed so you don’ have to tear down 
>>> and clean start the emulator to avoid interference between tests. This is 
>>> pretty disappointing, and means I (and I expect many others) will be forced 
>>> to rewrite everything if your app isn’t in pure maintenance mode. 
>>>
>>> Remko 
>>>
>>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Cloud NDB is now GA

[Jon Grover]

I've found that entering/exiting context in the setUp/tearDown methods (as 
you do in your example) is adding about 0.7s to each of my tests, so I'm 
wondering how you're able to do 500 tests in 52s (works out to 0.1s per 
test). Perhaps it's machine dependent; I'm running these tests on a 2015 
MacBook Pro, so maybe they'd be faster on something newer.

On Saturday, February 29, 2020 at 8:22:35 PM UTC-8, Ryan B wrote:
>
> the datastore emulator is indeed slower than testbed for unit tests, but 
> just as another data point, it's not way too slow for me. i routinely use 
> it as part of my edit/compile/test loop on an app with a cumulative total 
> of >1600 tests. around 500 of them use the datastore heavily, and running 
> just those tests takes ~52s. not fast, but manageable, especially when i 
> iterate on just a few relevant tests, and then expand to all of them before 
> committing.
>
> also, you don't have to entirely tear down and restart the emulator just 
> to clear its data between tests. just POST to http://localhost:8089/reset 
> (or whichever port you run the emulator on). example: 
> https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/blob/master/tests/testutil.py#L282-L289
>
>
> On Monday, February 24, 2020 at 1:05:33 PM UTC-8, Remko Tronçon wrote:
>>
>> On Monday, February 24, 2020 at 9:52:25 PM UTC+1, Andrew Gorcester wrote: 
>> > Cloud NDB is compatible with the Cloud Datastore Emulator; we recommend 
>> tests be done using that, the same way on Cloud NDB as they would be with 
>> the Cloud Datastore library. 
>>
>> Using an external emulator is way too slow to use for unit tests, even if 
>> you are able to get all your code changed so you don’ have to tear down and 
>> clean start the emulator to avoid interference between tests. This is 
>> pretty disappointing, and means I (and I expect many others) will be forced 
>> to rewrite everything if your app isn’t in pure maintenance mode. 
>>
>> Remko 
>>
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Cloud NDB is now GA

[Ryan B]

the datastore emulator is indeed slower than testbed for unit tests, but 
just as another data point, it's not way too slow for me. i routinely use 
it as part of my edit/compile/test loop on an app with a cumulative total 
of >1600 tests. around 500 of them use the datastore heavily, and running 
just those tests takes ~52s. not fast, but manageable, especially when i 
iterate on just a few relevant tests, and then expand to all of them before 
committing.

also, you don't have to entirely tear down and restart the emulator just to 
clear its data between tests. just POST to http://localhost:8089/reset (or 
whichever port you run the emulator on). example: 
https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/blob/master/tests/testutil.py#L282-L289


On Monday, February 24, 2020 at 1:05:33 PM UTC-8, Remko Tronçon wrote:
>
> On Monday, February 24, 2020 at 9:52:25 PM UTC+1, Andrew Gorcester wrote: 
> > Cloud NDB is compatible with the Cloud Datastore Emulator; we recommend 
> tests be done using that, the same way on Cloud NDB as they would be with 
> the Cloud Datastore library. 
>
> Using an external emulator is way too slow to use for unit tests, even if 
> you are able to get all your code changed so you don’ have to tear down and 
> clean start the emulator to avoid interference between tests. This is 
> pretty disappointing, and means I (and I expect many others) will be forced 
> to rewrite everything if your app isn’t in pure maintenance mode. 
>
> Remko 
>

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[google-appengine] Re: Cloud NDB is now GA

[Ryan B]

congratulations andrew! and to chris, carlos, danny, and everyone else who 
built python 3 ndb. it's been a huge boon for migrating from appengine 
python 2 to python 3. we appreciate all the hard work you all put into it!

On Monday, February 24, 2020 at 11:02:36 AM UTC-8, Andrew Gorcester wrote:
>
> Hello Pythonistas,
>
>
> The Cloud NDB client library for Cloud Datastore and Cloud Firestore in 
> Datastore mode, previously introduced as a beta project in September 2019, 
> has been launched to GA with its 1.0 release.
>
>
> Cloud NDB is an updated version of the App Engine NDB client library for 
> Datastore, adding support for Python 3 and targeting the Datastore API. 
> While it is intended for users migrating from App Engine Python 2.7 to App 
> Engine Python 3, it is fully portable and compatible with other Python 
> platforms. The library can be installed with `pip install google-cloud-ndb` 
> and the source code can be found on Github at 
> https://github.com/googleapis/python-ndb.
>
>
> We also have a migration guide for NDB 
> 
>  
> at, as part of our broader GAE Python migration documentation 
> . 
> We'll continue updating and adding to this documentation and library as 
> part of our migration support effort, so please also continue sending us 
> your feedback.
>
>
> Thank you again for your continued support for App Engine and our Cloud 
> platform. I am looking forward to hearing feedback from the community on 
> this and upcoming efforts.
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Cloud NDB is now GA

['Andrew Gorcester' via Google App Engine]

I'm afraid none of the Cloud API-targeting libraries have testbed support,
as testbed was a solution to App Engine Gen 1-specific problems at the
time. If you have an example of how much slower the datastore emulator is
vs. testbed for your use case, that would be very helpful in prioritizing
further work, either in speeding up the emulator or replicating the testbed
system for Cloud. I'd recommend filing a bug with your experiences at
https://github.com/googleapis/python-ndb/issues (though this would
eventually be tackled by the entire Cloud Client libraries team, rather
than just the NDB team).

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 1:05 PM Remko Tronçon  wrote:

> On Monday, February 24, 2020 at 9:52:25 PM UTC+1, Andrew Gorcester wrote:
> > Cloud NDB is compatible with the Cloud Datastore Emulator; we recommend
> tests be done using that, the same way on Cloud NDB as they would be with
> the Cloud Datastore library.
>
> Using an external emulator is way too slow to use for unit tests, even if
> you are able to get all your code changed so you don’ have to tear down and
> clean start the emulator to avoid interference between tests. This is
> pretty disappointing, and means I (and I expect many others) will be forced
> to rewrite everything if your app isn’t in pure maintenance mode.
>
> Remko
>
> --
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> .
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Cloud NDB is now GA

[Remko Tronçon]

On Monday, February 24, 2020 at 9:52:25 PM UTC+1, Andrew Gorcester wrote:
> Cloud NDB is compatible with the Cloud Datastore Emulator; we recommend tests 
> be done using that, the same way on Cloud NDB as they would be with the Cloud 
> Datastore library.

Using an external emulator is way too slow to use for unit tests, even if you 
are able to get all your code changed so you don’ have to tear down and clean 
start the emulator to avoid interference between tests. This is pretty 
disappointing, and means I (and I expect many others) will be forced to rewrite 
everything if your app isn’t in pure maintenance mode. 

Remko

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Cloud NDB is now GA

['Andrew Gorcester' via Google App Engine]

Cloud NDB is intended as a migration tool for App Engine NDB users who wish
to move to either newer versions of App Engine (App Engine Python 3) or to
other environments. Customers are welcome to use Cloud NDB however they
wish, including on totally new projects that aren't associated with GAE
NDB. However, Cloud NDB will not add support for any new features that
might be added to Cloud Datastore in the future, because that wouldn't
further the goal of aiding migration from GAE NDB; also the NDB concurrency
model was designed around GAE Python 2.7 limitations and might not be the
best model for greenfield projects with no history rooted in App Engine. We
recommend the use of the Cloud Datastore library for new projects when
possible.

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:08 PM Philip  wrote:

> In this ticket  it
> was stated that Google does not recommend NDB for new projects. It is
> merely intended for upgrading from 2.7 to python 3 GAE. It this statement
> still true given the fact that it is now GA?
>
> Am Montag, 24. Februar 2020 20:02:36 UTC+1 schrieb Andrew Gorcester:
>>
>> Hello Pythonistas,
>>
>>
>> The Cloud NDB client library for Cloud Datastore and Cloud Firestore in
>> Datastore mode, previously introduced as a beta project in September 2019,
>> has been launched to GA with its 1.0 release.
>>
>>
>> Cloud NDB is an updated version of the App Engine NDB client library for
>> Datastore, adding support for Python 3 and targeting the Datastore API.
>> While it is intended for users migrating from App Engine Python 2.7 to App
>> Engine Python 3, it is fully portable and compatible with other Python
>> platforms. The library can be installed with `pip install google-cloud-ndb`
>> and the source code can be found on Github at
>> https://github.com/googleapis/python-ndb.
>>
>>
>> We also have a migration guide for NDB
>> 
>> at, as part of our broader GAE Python migration documentation
>> .
>> We'll continue updating and adding to this documentation and library as
>> part of our migration support effort, so please also continue sending us
>> your feedback.
>>
>>
>> Thank you again for your continued support for App Engine and our Cloud
>> platform. I am looking forward to hearing feedback from the community on
>> this and upcoming efforts.
>>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Cloud NDB is now GA

['Andrew Gorcester' via Google App Engine]

Cloud NDB is compatible with the Cloud Datastore Emulator; we recommend
tests be done using that, the same way on Cloud NDB as they would be with
the Cloud Datastore library.

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:59 AM Remko Tronçon  wrote:

>
> We also have a migration guide for NDB
>> 
>> at, as part of our broader GAE Python migration documentation
>> .
>> We'll continue updating and adding to this documentation and library as
>> part of our migration support effort, so please also continue sending us
>> your feedback.
>>
>
> The migration guide doesn't mention how NDB unit tests can be ported.
> AFAIK, the testbed that is currently available in NDB is not available for
> Cloud NDB.
> Is there anything provided for unit testing Cloud NDB code, or do you have
> to abstract out NDB (which sounds like a huge effort and would pretty much
> make Cloud NDB useless).
>
> thanks,
> Remko
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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[google-appengine] Re: Cloud NDB is now GA

[Philip]

In this ticket  it was 
stated that Google does not recommend NDB for new projects. It is merely 
intended for upgrading from 2.7 to python 3 GAE. It this statement still 
true given the fact that it is now GA? 

Am Montag, 24. Februar 2020 20:02:36 UTC+1 schrieb Andrew Gorcester:
>
> Hello Pythonistas,
>
>
> The Cloud NDB client library for Cloud Datastore and Cloud Firestore in 
> Datastore mode, previously introduced as a beta project in September 2019, 
> has been launched to GA with its 1.0 release.
>
>
> Cloud NDB is an updated version of the App Engine NDB client library for 
> Datastore, adding support for Python 3 and targeting the Datastore API. 
> While it is intended for users migrating from App Engine Python 2.7 to App 
> Engine Python 3, it is fully portable and compatible with other Python 
> platforms. The library can be installed with `pip install google-cloud-ndb` 
> and the source code can be found on Github at 
> https://github.com/googleapis/python-ndb.
>
>
> We also have a migration guide for NDB 
> 
>  
> at, as part of our broader GAE Python migration documentation 
> . 
> We'll continue updating and adding to this documentation and library as 
> part of our migration support effort, so please also continue sending us 
> your feedback.
>
>
> Thank you again for your continued support for App Engine and our Cloud 
> platform. I am looking forward to hearing feedback from the community on 
> this and upcoming efforts.
>

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[google-appengine] Re: Cloud NDB is now GA

[Remko Tronçon]

> We also have a migration guide for NDB 
> 
>  
> at, as part of our broader GAE Python migration documentation 
> . 
> We'll continue updating and adding to this documentation and library as 
> part of our migration support effort, so please also continue sending us 
> your feedback.
>
 
The migration guide doesn't mention how NDB unit tests can be ported. 
AFAIK, the testbed that is currently available in NDB is not available for 
Cloud NDB.
Is there anything provided for unit testing Cloud NDB code, or do you have 
to abstract out NDB (which sounds like a huge effort and would pretty much 
make Cloud NDB useless).

thanks,
Remko

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