Re: GWT Grid vs. SmartGWT grid
The Grid class from GWT is a layout handler and not a GUI widget at all. I suspect that you are looking for some kind of data table GUI widget control. The ListGrid control from the SmartGWT project has all the nice bells and whistles but the download can be less than snappy. I don't think that it is too bad though. Check out http://myjsp.dynamicalsoftware.com/kato/ which is a demo containing many SmartGWT widgets including the ListGrid. I wouldn't say that the download was too terrible. SmartGWT works fine on many popular browser/OS combinations. The only place I found of relevance where SmartGWT doesn't work and GWT does is the iPhone. The Grid control from the GXT project might be a nice compromise between eye candy and download time but do check out their license first. @Mariyan has already recommended the PagingScrollTable from the incubator project. Also, you might be interested in this presentation ( see http://www.dynamicalsoftware.com/gwt ) on GWT and some popular yet mature 3rd party libraries. The slide deck covers the very topic that you are asking about. I hope this helps. On Mar 11, 9:12 pm, Ken wrote: > I'm exploring using GWT for future work and for a project I'm looking > at now I'm particularly interested in the Grid widget. The GWT Grid > just doesn't compare to that provided by SmartGWT, but I'm concerned > about using the SmartGWT libraries for several reasons: > > 1) It requires taking the whole library whole and it doesn't do things > in really the same way that GWT does in many cases. > > 2) I'm concerned about browser compatibility since it relies on JSNI > calls to the Smart Client library and not the Java->JavaScript > transformation provided by GWT. > > 3) I'm concerned that by using the SmartGWT library I will be > increasing the load time of the application since it will require > downloading the entire library again. > > So what I would really like is a grid control that has a similar > feature set as that provided by SmartGWT, but doesn't come with all > the extra baggage. > > Does such a widget exist? Is there at least a JavaScript grid that > can be used with GWT that doesn't come with all the baggage of > SmartGWT? > > Am I wrong about the disadvantages to using SmartGWT? Is it a better > choice than I have been led to believe by my research? > > Thank you. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
Re: GWT Grid vs. SmartGWT grid
the right question is.. what do you need? you need simplicity or a lots of built-in features? do you need stand up for millions of users.. or do you control the app users.. and could even train them if you like? in my case i need simplicity and support a lot of users.. low latency.. etc.. and my fear is that third part library could get broken by futures versions of GWT that can change the way it does thing in its roots.. so a lot of rewrites for these fellows Smart its a cool project... but you always need to think if you fill you project with a bunch of features your users may get lost.. and may repeats "Vista" mistakes.. you need to balance when to make developers life easier or user life easier... On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 6:29 PM, ckendrick wrote: > Someone off-list took some of my comments the wrong way. I'd just > like to clarify, as long as GWT is targeting the ultralight use case > of an application that must be as fast as possible on first access, it > makes sense for GWT to rely on browser layout and just provide direct > CSS for skinning. It's not something I'm saying is a flaw in GWT or a > bad design decision, in fact, it's the same decision I would make in > addressing that use case. > > The reason is simply that it takes a certain irreducible amount of > code to really build layouts that don't depend on native browser > behavior, and that's too much to deliver for the ultralight use case. > It's just different designs for different use cases. > > I hope the core GWT widgets continue to focus on the ultralight use > case, because there's just nothing comparable, especially for mobile. > > On Mar 12, 12:44 pm, ckendrick wrote: > > And here are the authors to disagree :) > > > > 1) Yes, we make intentional departures from the GWT way, such as.. > > > > 2)SmartGWThas better cross-browser consistency than GWT itself. > > Why? Because GWT relies on native browser behavior and CSS for > > layout, and this is where all the quirks come from. We do layout with > > layout manager classes, more in the style of Java Swing. Yes, GWT has > > layout managers, but what they're actually doing in many cases is > > relying on the browser interpretation of sizes and layout rules. > > Also, re-skinning your application with GWT is straight CSS, > whereasSmartGWTprovides an abstraction that separates styling-as-such from > > layout. > > > > 3) The library is cached, so you only increase the first-ever load > > time. If you have a site where you are trying to display something as > > fast as possible for a visitor who comes only once, this may matter. > > If you're building an enterprise application and people use it > > regularly, it doesn't matter, the extreme productivity benefits of > theSmartGWTgrid (and other components) are much more important. On > > broadband,SmartGWTapplications come up faster than the launch time > > of Word or Acrobat, so it's right in line with user expectations for > > enterprise/desktop applications. > > > > As far as the future, my take is that GWT cannot both retain an > > ultralight footprint *and* provide the features of an enterprise > > platform likeSmartGWT- static code analysis just isn't a strong > > enough approach to code trimming to enable this. I covered this in > > depth here: > > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com/msg34... > > > > You've also got to consider the state of the art, of course. Will > > your customers be doing a head-to-head comparison on functionality and > > productivity between your competitor, who usedSmartGWT, and your app, > > which uses plain GWT grids? That's going to go very badly against > > you. > > > > On Mar 12, 1:58 am, Nathan Wells wrote: > > > > > I would say you are correct on the disadvantages ofSmartGwt. There > > > are those (most notably the author(s)) who I know disagree with me. > > > GWTers recognize the need for a more robust, data-backed table > > > solution, and it's currently in the works, targeted for 2.1. Our > > > company decided to go withSmartGwtfor now, then migrate to a more > > > "Gwtfull" solution later. > > > > > On Mar 12, 1:29 am, mariyan nenchev wrote: > > > > > > Try scroll paging table from gwt incubator, i think it was updated to > gwt > > > > 2.0. > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google Web Toolkit" group. > To post to this group, send email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://
Re: GWT Grid vs. SmartGWT grid
Someone off-list took some of my comments the wrong way. I'd just like to clarify, as long as GWT is targeting the ultralight use case of an application that must be as fast as possible on first access, it makes sense for GWT to rely on browser layout and just provide direct CSS for skinning. It's not something I'm saying is a flaw in GWT or a bad design decision, in fact, it's the same decision I would make in addressing that use case. The reason is simply that it takes a certain irreducible amount of code to really build layouts that don't depend on native browser behavior, and that's too much to deliver for the ultralight use case. It's just different designs for different use cases. I hope the core GWT widgets continue to focus on the ultralight use case, because there's just nothing comparable, especially for mobile. On Mar 12, 12:44 pm, ckendrick wrote: > And here are the authors to disagree :) > > 1) Yes, we make intentional departures from the GWT way, such as.. > > 2)SmartGWThas better cross-browser consistency than GWT itself. > Why? Because GWT relies on native browser behavior and CSS for > layout, and this is where all the quirks come from. We do layout with > layout manager classes, more in the style of Java Swing. Yes, GWT has > layout managers, but what they're actually doing in many cases is > relying on the browser interpretation of sizes and layout rules. > Also, re-skinning your application with GWT is straight CSS, > whereasSmartGWTprovides an abstraction that separates styling-as-such from > layout. > > 3) The library is cached, so you only increase the first-ever load > time. If you have a site where you are trying to display something as > fast as possible for a visitor who comes only once, this may matter. > If you're building an enterprise application and people use it > regularly, it doesn't matter, the extreme productivity benefits of > theSmartGWTgrid (and other components) are much more important. On > broadband,SmartGWTapplications come up faster than the launch time > of Word or Acrobat, so it's right in line with user expectations for > enterprise/desktop applications. > > As far as the future, my take is that GWT cannot both retain an > ultralight footprint *and* provide the features of an enterprise > platform likeSmartGWT- static code analysis just isn't a strong > enough approach to code trimming to enable this. I covered this in > depth here: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com/msg34... > > You've also got to consider the state of the art, of course. Will > your customers be doing a head-to-head comparison on functionality and > productivity between your competitor, who usedSmartGWT, and your app, > which uses plain GWT grids? That's going to go very badly against > you. > > On Mar 12, 1:58 am, Nathan Wells wrote: > > > I would say you are correct on the disadvantages ofSmartGwt. There > > are those (most notably the author(s)) who I know disagree with me. > > GWTers recognize the need for a more robust, data-backed table > > solution, and it's currently in the works, targeted for 2.1. Our > > company decided to go withSmartGwtfor now, then migrate to a more > > "Gwtfull" solution later. > > > On Mar 12, 1:29 am, mariyan nenchev wrote: > > > > Try scroll paging table from gwt incubator, i think it was updated to gwt > > > 2.0. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
Re: GWT Grid vs. SmartGWT grid
And if you'd like to use GWT but don't care about GWT programming per se, check out Vaadin.com. It's a servlet based solution that uses GWT for the client portion. They have tables/grids that work well with javabeans without DTOs or RPC programming (except for minor attribute-value passing via the UIDL if you build your own client widget). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
Re: GWT Grid vs. SmartGWT grid
And here are the authors to disagree :) 1) Yes, we make intentional departures from the GWT way, such as.. 2) SmartGWT has better cross-browser consistency than GWT itself. Why? Because GWT relies on native browser behavior and CSS for layout, and this is where all the quirks come from. We do layout with layout manager classes, more in the style of Java Swing. Yes, GWT has layout managers, but what they're actually doing in many cases is relying on the browser interpretation of sizes and layout rules. Also, re-skinning your application with GWT is straight CSS, whereas SmartGWT provides an abstraction that separates styling-as-such from layout. 3) The library is cached, so you only increase the first-ever load time. If you have a site where you are trying to display something as fast as possible for a visitor who comes only once, this may matter. If you're building an enterprise application and people use it regularly, it doesn't matter, the extreme productivity benefits of the SmartGWT grid (and other components) are much more important. On broadband, SmartGWT applications come up faster than the launch time of Word or Acrobat, so it's right in line with user expectations for enterprise/desktop applications. As far as the future, my take is that GWT cannot both retain an ultralight footprint *and* provide the features of an enterprise platform like SmartGWT - static code analysis just isn't a strong enough approach to code trimming to enable this. I covered this in depth here: http://www.mail-archive.com/google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com/msg34128.html You've also got to consider the state of the art, of course. Will your customers be doing a head-to-head comparison on functionality and productivity between your competitor, who used SmartGWT, and your app, which uses plain GWT grids? That's going to go very badly against you. On Mar 12, 1:58 am, Nathan Wells wrote: > I would say you are correct on the disadvantages of SmartGwt. There > are those (most notably the author(s)) who I know disagree with me. > GWTers recognize the need for a more robust, data-backed table > solution, and it's currently in the works, targeted for 2.1. Our > company decided to go with SmartGwt for now, then migrate to a more > "Gwtfull" solution later. > > On Mar 12, 1:29 am, mariyan nenchev wrote: > > > Try scroll paging table from gwt incubator, i think it was updated to gwt > > 2.0. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
Re: GWT Grid vs. SmartGWT grid
I would say you are correct on the disadvantages of SmartGwt. There are those (most notably the author(s)) who I know disagree with me. GWTers recognize the need for a more robust, data-backed table solution, and it's currently in the works, targeted for 2.1. Our company decided to go with SmartGwt for now, then migrate to a more "Gwtfull" solution later. On Mar 12, 1:29 am, mariyan nenchev wrote: > Try scroll paging table from gwt incubator, i think it was updated to gwt > 2.0. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
Re: GWT Grid vs. SmartGWT grid
Try scroll paging table from gwt incubator, i think it was updated to gwt 2.0. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
GWT Grid vs. SmartGWT grid
I'm exploring using GWT for future work and for a project I'm looking at now I'm particularly interested in the Grid widget. The GWT Grid just doesn't compare to that provided by SmartGWT, but I'm concerned about using the SmartGWT libraries for several reasons: 1) It requires taking the whole library whole and it doesn't do things in really the same way that GWT does in many cases. 2) I'm concerned about browser compatibility since it relies on JSNI calls to the Smart Client library and not the Java->JavaScript transformation provided by GWT. 3) I'm concerned that by using the SmartGWT library I will be increasing the load time of the application since it will require downloading the entire library again. So what I would really like is a grid control that has a similar feature set as that provided by SmartGWT, but doesn't come with all the extra baggage. Does such a widget exist? Is there at least a JavaScript grid that can be used with GWT that doesn't come with all the baggage of SmartGWT? Am I wrong about the disadvantages to using SmartGWT? Is it a better choice than I have been led to believe by my research? Thank you. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
