I'm a web developer - where do i fit in?
My company is examining front end technologies and we're a java shop so everyone is interested in GWT. As a web developer (the html/css/ javascript type - and i _like_ javascript) I'm curious where I fit in. I've paged through a number of books and watched a number of online videos and it seems that one argument for using GWT is to remove me from the process. That can't be entirely true. Yes, there is CSS development. However, its not unusual to need to edit html in order to get the required appearance. Further, there is the development of new widgets. Yes, I've read the FAQ but I still don't see where my html lives. Is there complete documentation on this somewhere? Finally, does GWT really free you from browser incompatibility concerns? I've seen examples in books that would indicate otherwise which is disappointing. Very rarely do I see reason for platform specific code in css or js, i would certainly never want it to creep into the java which i think all java devs will agree with. Oh, and how do java developers feel about taking over responsibility for something that would have been a web developer task? While it may sound good in theory, its my guess that many java developers would prefer to avoid the front end all together. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: I'm a web developer - where do i fit in?
Honestly, removing the HTML designer is largely why I chose GWT, only because I'm not very good with HTML design and this allows me to work on projects i would have otherwise needed a designer for. I disagree about the platform specific JS / CSS, I work at a fortune 500 web site and there are tons of horrible work arounds ( almost all of them IE ) that are simply required to get your site to display across all browsers. But all in all I would say that having an HTML developer on the project is extremely useful, there are lots of little things that have been creeping up in my project where I still need HTML skills. On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 7:55 AM, mattkime mattk...@gmail.com wrote: My company is examining front end technologies and we're a java shop so everyone is interested in GWT. As a web developer (the html/css/ javascript type - and i _like_ javascript) I'm curious where I fit in. I've paged through a number of books and watched a number of online videos and it seems that one argument for using GWT is to remove me from the process. That can't be entirely true. Yes, there is CSS development. However, its not unusual to need to edit html in order to get the required appearance. Further, there is the development of new widgets. Yes, I've read the FAQ but I still don't see where my html lives. Is there complete documentation on this somewhere? Finally, does GWT really free you from browser incompatibility concerns? I've seen examples in books that would indicate otherwise which is disappointing. Very rarely do I see reason for platform specific code in css or js, i would certainly never want it to creep into the java which i think all java devs will agree with. Oh, and how do java developers feel about taking over responsibility for something that would have been a web developer task? While it may sound good in theory, its my guess that many java developers would prefer to avoid the front end all together. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: I'm a web developer - where do i fit in?
2009/10/22 mattkime mattk...@gmail.com My company is examining front end technologies and we're a java shop so everyone is interested in GWT. As a web developer (the html/css/ javascript type - and i _like_ javascript) I'm curious where I fit in. I've paged through a number of books and watched a number of online videos and it seems that one argument for using GWT is to remove me from the process. That can't be entirely true. You become a web developer who used GWT to develop web applications Yes, there is CSS development. However, its not unusual to need to edit html in order to get the required appearance. Further, there is the development of new widgets. Yes, I've read the FAQ but I still don't see where my html lives. Is there complete documentation on this somewhere? There isn't a necessity for a lot of HTML. You can add widgets to existing HTML, or you can still create HTML pages and add widgets to them, but basically, since there is only one HTML page per application, there isn't a lot you heed to do with it Finally, does GWT really free you from browser incompatibility concerns? I've seen examples in books that would indicate otherwise which is disappointing. Very rarely do I see reason for platform specific code in css or js, i would certainly never want it to creep into the java which i think all java devs will agree with. GWT frees you from a lot of them, but not the CSS ones if you are using CSS files. There should never be any need to write browser-specific Java-syntax code Oh, and how do java developers feel about taking over responsibility for something that would have been a web developer task? While it may sound good in theory, its my guess that many java developers would prefer to avoid the front end all together. It's not a matter of Java developers taking over from web developers - it's either or both using Java syntax code which gets compiled into JavaScript. My impression is that desktop Java coders have a harder time adjusting to using Java syntax (it *isn't* Java) to create web apps because they have problems with basic ideas like 'asynchronous' whereas web developers just have to learn another curly-bracket language, they don't have to think in a different way. Ian http://examples.roughian.com P.S. You *like* JavaScript? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: I'm a web developer - where do i fit in?
Why don't you try learining new stuff(like gwt) and try to fit everywhere? It is not any rocket science On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 3:55 PM, mattkime mattk...@gmail.com wrote: My company is examining front end technologies and we're a java shop so everyone is interested in GWT. As a web developer (the html/css/ javascript type - and i _like_ javascript) I'm curious where I fit in. I've paged through a number of books and watched a number of online videos and it seems that one argument for using GWT is to remove me from the process. That can't be entirely true. Yes, there is CSS development. However, its not unusual to need to edit html in order to get the required appearance. Further, there is the development of new widgets. Yes, I've read the FAQ but I still don't see where my html lives. Is there complete documentation on this somewhere? Finally, does GWT really free you from browser incompatibility concerns? I've seen examples in books that would indicate otherwise which is disappointing. Very rarely do I see reason for platform specific code in css or js, i would certainly never want it to creep into the java which i think all java devs will agree with. Oh, and how do java developers feel about taking over responsibility for something that would have been a web developer task? While it may sound good in theory, its my guess that many java developers would prefer to avoid the front end all together. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: I'm a web developer - where do i fit in?
@Ian: I'm a Java web developer and it took some adjusting at first. It's NOT like any other web framework, I think you have to approach it as writing a desktop application, not a web app. This idea of Events, MPC, layouts etc are all desktop app idioms. On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 1:05 PM, mariyan nenchev nenchev.mari...@gmail.com wrote: Why don't you try learining new stuff(like gwt) and try to fit everywhere? It is not any rocket science On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 3:55 PM, mattkime mattk...@gmail.com wrote: My company is examining front end technologies and we're a java shop so everyone is interested in GWT. As a web developer (the html/css/ javascript type - and i _like_ javascript) I'm curious where I fit in. I've paged through a number of books and watched a number of online videos and it seems that one argument for using GWT is to remove me from the process. That can't be entirely true. Yes, there is CSS development. However, its not unusual to need to edit html in order to get the required appearance. Further, there is the development of new widgets. Yes, I've read the FAQ but I still don't see where my html lives. Is there complete documentation on this somewhere? Finally, does GWT really free you from browser incompatibility concerns? I've seen examples in books that would indicate otherwise which is disappointing. Very rarely do I see reason for platform specific code in css or js, i would certainly never want it to creep into the java which i think all java devs will agree with. Oh, and how do java developers feel about taking over responsibility for something that would have been a web developer task? While it may sound good in theory, its my guess that many java developers would prefer to avoid the front end all together. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: I'm a web developer - where do i fit in?
My company is examining front end technologies and we're a java shop so everyone is interested in GWT. As a web developer (the html/css/ javascript type - and i _like_ javascript) I'm curious where I fit in. I've paged through a number of books and watched a number of online videos and it seems that one argument for using GWT is to remove me from the process. That can't be entirely true. You become a web developer who used GWT to develop web applications Yeah you become a technology-agnostic devleoper. I'm a dev with PHP JavaScript background but started re-learning Java just so I can use GWT. I like JavaScript as well, but writing a large app in JavaScript just isn't feasible. Btw, there still is a need for HTML, CSS and even JavaScript using the JSNI. Dave --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: I'm a web developer - where do i fit in?
I think its correct that I'd become a java developer, even if I'd slide in slowly. I enjoy learning new tech but I don't want to spread myself too thin. I've been examining various front end technologies lately and cringe whenever someone claims a particular framework fixes something in javascript. Its almost never a javascript problem but a dom problem or its just a variation from how java works. Additionally, there is no inherent barrier to writing large apps in js any more than there is in java. The determining factor as to whether we'll use GWT will be how we want to build our dev team. As it is, our java developers are quite busy so i couldn't understand why we'd saddle them with more responsibility. That said, its a decision for the people above me. I'm not sure if its an inherent part of the approach but I fault GWT for largely ignoring page based content loading and navigation. It would be preferable if the content was loaded into an html page before any js was attached. GWT v3? And one more outstanding question - how GWT would relate to our existing codebase which is a mix of spring/jsp and xslt - yes, its a mess. Other front end technologies seems like they'd merge a bit easier. thanks for the advice! --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: I'm a web developer - where do i fit in?
There is no 'spreading thin'. All these languages, design patterns, idioms, hacks all start to look the same, regardless of language, after you get enough experience and then it is just picking the right tool for the job. On Oct 22, 11:05 pm, mattkime mattk...@gmail.com wrote: I think its correct that I'd become a java developer, even if I'd slide in slowly. I enjoy learning new tech but I don't want to spread myself too thin. I've been examining various front end technologies lately and cringe whenever someone claims a particular framework fixes something in javascript. Its almost never a javascript problem but a dom problem or its just a variation from how java works. Additionally, there is no inherent barrier to writing large apps in js any more than there is in java. The determining factor as to whether we'll use GWT will be how we want to build our dev team. As it is, our java developers are quite busy so i couldn't understand why we'd saddle them with more responsibility. That said, its a decision for the people above me. I'm not sure if its an inherent part of the approach but I fault GWT for largely ignoring page based content loading and navigation. It would be preferable if the content was loaded into an html page before any js was attached. GWT v3? And one more outstanding question - how GWT would relate to our existing codebase which is a mix of spring/jsp and xslt - yes, its a mess. Other front end technologies seems like they'd merge a bit easier. thanks for the advice! --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: I'm a web developer - where do i fit in?
I've been examining various front end technologies lately and cringe whenever someone claims a particular framework fixes something in javascript. Its almost never a javascript problem but a dom problem or its just a variation from how java works. Additionally, there is no inherent barrier to writing large apps in js any more than there is in java. I reckon there's a barrier - dispersion of application logic between client and server. Java doesn't fix this, GWT does. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
