Re: [GRASS-dev] [GRASS-user] please help review osgeo live dvd summary docs
Markus N wrote: > Examples *must* work out of the box from my point of view. (they do, afaik) > Also, there is not much advertisement coming from an > outdated dataset of the '80th (Spearfish) while having for > many years a way more recent data set available, published, > and meanwhile used in most GRASS manual pages. due to the tight space limitations it was the only one that was safe not to be cut. with the nc_basic one it's better now, but I've only had that in place since yesterday. does geodata age? in defense of the Spearfish dataset, it is both small and comprehensive, even if it doesn't show off modern geo-layers as much and is a bit crusty. but point taken. Hamish ___ grass-dev mailing list grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev
Re: [GRASS-dev] [GRASS-user] please help review osgeo live dvd summary docs
Helena wrote: > thanks for pointing it out - there was a lot of stuff that I > did not know was there, it should be cleaned up now, please > let me know if you still find something or if there are any > problems. ... > http://courses.ncsu.edu/mea792/common/media/gisdemo.zip ok, thanks. should we copy that into http://grass.osgeo.org/sampledata/north_carolina/ as .tar.gz too? keeping the same filename? > Also, I can export the data into some external formats - > perhaps shape files and geotiff? in case somebody would > like to use it with other software. We are already doing that for NC shape, rast_geotiff, and kml tarballs at the above sampledata/ URL. The cloning of the data was one reason I felt pretty shaky about shipping the full NC grass Location in addition to the shp/gtiff files. Also along with selected Natural Earth data layers, an OpenStreetMap data extract, and links to a bunch of other random shapefiles and geotiffs that other projects supply as part of their quickstart docs, all in a ~/data/ directory. Finally, there's an icon on the Desktop which leads to a OSGeo website listing links to geodata & courseware downloads needed for various workshops and tutorials that were too big to fit on the disc or not ready at the time the discs went to press. Hamish ___ grass-dev mailing list grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev
Re: [GRASS-dev] [GRASS-user] please help review osgeo live dvd summary docs
Hamish, thanks for pointing it out - there was a lot of stuff that I did not know was there, it should be cleaned up now, please let me know if you still find something or if there are any problems. Also, I can export the data into some external formats - perhaps shape files and geotiff? in case somebody would like to use it with other software. http://courses.ncsu.edu/mea792/common/media/gisdemo.zip Helena On Jul 25, 2012, at 1:20 AM, Hamish wrote: > Hamish: >>> Due to severe space limitations on the disc I'm continually concerned >>> about having to remove the NC dataset, or cut it down to Helena's 40mb >>> set. > > Helena: >> Hamish - I highly recommend to use this smaller dat set - it >> is much easier for users to understand (as I tried to avoid various >> obscure names there) and you can still do a lot with it and the simple >> names also allow for more generic quickstart docs (e.g. if somebody wants >> to use elevation or streams in other countries) >> I started to use it as a baseline data set and then expand >> it with various specialized mapsets for more advanced courses. >> here it is again (it should be the same as on the grass website) >> http://courses.ncsu.edu/mea792/common/Assign_GISamodel/Assignall.html > > ok, done. > > I note some left over Mac ._files and some empty .tmp/ cruft, and also > the SEARCH_PATH in user1 lists some mapsets not shipped with the smaller > dataset. harmless, but.. > > > thanks, > Hamish > ___ > grass-dev mailing list > grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev ___ grass-dev mailing list grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev
Re: [GRASS-dev] [GRASS-user] please help review osgeo live dvd summary docs
> > ok, done. > > I note some left over Mac ._files and some empty .tmp/ cruft, and also > the SEARCH_PATH in user1 lists some mapsets not shipped with the smaller > dataset. harmless, but.. > Hamish - thanks for pointing it out - I will fix it and post a new one ASAP, Helena > > thanks, > Hamish > ___ > grass-dev mailing list > grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev ___ grass-dev mailing list grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev
Re: [GRASS-dev] [GRASS-user] please help review osgeo live dvd summary docs
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Hamish wrote: > Hamish: >> > I know, I was trying to make the instructions generic enough to work >> > with either of the two datasets. I figured those using Spearfish would >> > see the .dem and .10m and figure out that they should pick one, but >> > those running in NC would be hunting around for an exact name which >> > didn't exist. > > MarkusM: >> So it is better to use the spearfish location but a raster name from >> the NC dataset and let users hunt around for an exact name that does >> not exist? > > Yes! I'd like to encourage a little exploring and making the student > think instead of exactly telling every move to make click by click. But > no so abstract that they get lost. ... well, with the today's click-and-try mentality this means: click-and-throw. Examples *must* work out of the box from my point of view. Also, there is not much advertisement coming from an outdated dataset of the '80th (Spearfish) while having for many years a way more recent data set available, published, and meanwhile used in most GRASS manual pages. ... > No need to apologize, we get a better end result from frank but courteous > discussion. Yes: so please let's forget about the "Spearfish" data set. My 0.02 cent, markusN ___ grass-dev mailing list grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev
Re: [GRASS-dev] [GRASS-user] please help review osgeo live dvd summary docs
Hamish: > > I know, I was trying to make the instructions generic enough to work > > with either of the two datasets. I figured those using Spearfish would > > see the .dem and .10m and figure out that they should pick one, but > > those running in NC would be hunting around for an exact name which > > didn't exist. MarkusM: > So it is better to use the spearfish location but a raster name from > the NC dataset and let users hunt around for an exact name that does > not exist? Yes! I'd like to encourage a little exploring and making the student think instead of exactly telling every move to make click by click. But no so abstract that they get lost. If you are told to pick the "elevation" map but are only presented with "elevation.dem" and "elevation.10m", both of which work fine, I'd argue that it's healthy to make them make a personal choice, they get more personal reward from it that way (sort of like telling them to select their home-town from a global dataset). [ok, I'm reaching out on the limb :)] > Sorry for the provocation, but that is the status quo. No need to apologize, we get a better end result from frank but courteous discussion. I do take your point, and I've now reworded it slightly to give the exact map names at the start and make it more like "click on your elevation map" instead of "click on the `elevation` map". > IMHO, if there are screenshots in the quickstart, the instructions > should be such that the screenshots can be reproduced, otherwise users > might be confused that their results do not look like the provided > screenshots (easy reproducibility of results is not such a bad idea). it is positive feedback indeed, and that's critical (especially in the first 5 minutes of the tutorial when they are very unsure of what they're doing), but again I wouldn't mind a little deviations and choose your own adventure to it. (both ways visually look fine, and fwiw I'd say the smaller threshold size has a better looking v.colors result) Or you can read that as the payoff:effort ratio for me to cut a new screenshot has not yet exceeded 1.0. I'm much more concerned about the time they'll spend in the menus and tabs trying to find first the r.watershed module and then the threshold option. I know it well and where it is, and still I have to hunt for it. Lots of screenshots with menu entries circled in red with arrows and things would be great (Markus N did one like that for the startup screen help page), but is beyond the scope of this quickstart which is already a bit on the large side for what it's supposed to be. > You could add a short half-sentence to the very first > paragraph, e.g. "... some slight adjustments may be needed for the NC > dataset, e.g. by using elevation@PERMANENT instead of > elevation.10m@PERMANENT." Done, but I left off the @PERMANENT part, those are the only maps to choose from at that point so you can't go wrong & it just clutters the text. cheers, Hamish ___ grass-dev mailing list grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev
Re: [GRASS-dev] [GRASS-user] please help review osgeo live dvd summary docs
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 5:59 AM, Hamish wrote: > Markus Metz wrote: >> An example for vector processing using the basins raster >> created in the previous step: >> >> 1) convert the basins to vector areas with r.to.vect -v feature=area >> 2) load average elevation for each basin to the attribute table with >> v.rast.stats >> 3) assign the color table of the raster elevation using average >> elevation values to the basins vector with v.colors column=elev_mean >> raster=elevation.10m >> 4) display the vector using the colors in GRASSRGB > > thanks, that leads through nicely. Now added, with some short notes > about the attribute table manager, cartographic composer, and graphical > modeler under "other things to try". > > http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/Quick_wxGUI_tutorial#Vector_modules > http://adhoc.osgeo.osuosl.org/livedvd/docs/en/quickstart/grass_quickstart.html > >> BTW, there is no raster map named 'elevation' in the spearfish >> dataset, but e.g. 'elevation.10m' as seen in one of the screenshots in >> the quickstart. This should be corrected throughout the quickstart. > > I know, I was trying to make the instructions generic enough to work > with either of the two datasets. I figured those using Spearfish would > see the .dem and .10m and figure out that they should pick one, but > those running in NC would be hunting around for an exact name which > didn't exist. So it is better to use the spearfish location but a raster name from the NC dataset and let users hunt around for an exact name that does not exist? Sorry for the provocation, but that is the status quo. IMHO, if there are screenshots in the quickstart, the instructions should be such that the screenshots can be reproduced, otherwise users might be confused that their results do not look like the provided screenshots (easy reproducibility of results is not such a bad idea). You could add a short half-sentence to the very first paragraph, e.g. "... some slight adjustments may be needed for the NC dataset, e.g. by using elevation@PERMANENT instead of elevation.10m@PERMANENT." > >> It seems that the basins in 'Watersheds and streams' were >> created with the minimum size of the exterior watershed basin threshold >> set to 10 cells, not 1 cells (missed a zero). > > It's not a typo, I just ran it for elevation.dem not elevation.10m. Using > elevation.10m with a threshold of 1 cells doesn't match the screenshot > but is not so bad, so just try to pick something in the middle and stay > loose. If the quickstart is supposed to target beginners, it would IMHO be better to have matching examples and screenshots to avoid confusion. Markus ___ grass-dev mailing list grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev
Re: [GRASS-dev] [GRASS-user] please help review osgeo live dvd summary docs
Hamish: > > Due to severe space limitations on the disc I'm continually concerned > > about having to remove the NC dataset, or cut it down to Helena's 40mb > > set. Helena: > Hamish - I highly recommend to use this smaller dat set - it > is much easier for users to understand (as I tried to avoid various > obscure names there) and you can still do a lot with it and the simple > names also allow for more generic quickstart docs (e.g. if somebody wants > to use elevation or streams in other countries) > I started to use it as a baseline data set and then expand > it with various specialized mapsets for more advanced courses. > here it is again (it should be the same as on the grass website) > http://courses.ncsu.edu/mea792/common/Assign_GISamodel/Assignall.html ok, done. I note some left over Mac ._files and some empty .tmp/ cruft, and also the SEARCH_PATH in user1 lists some mapsets not shipped with the smaller dataset. harmless, but.. thanks, Hamish ___ grass-dev mailing list grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev
Re: [GRASS-dev] [GRASS-user] please help review osgeo live dvd summary docs
> > Due to severe space limitations on the disc I'm continually concerned > about having to remove the NC dataset, or cut it down to Helena's 40mb > set. Hamish - I highly recommend to use this smaller dat set - it is much easier for users to understand (as I tried to avoid various obscure names there) and you can still do a lot with it and the simple names also allow for more generic quickstart docs (e.g. if somebody wants to use elevation or streams in other countries) I started to use it as a baseline data set and then expand it with various specialized mapsets for more advanced courses. here it is again (it should be the same as on the grass website) http://courses.ncsu.edu/mea792/common/Assign_GISamodel/Assignall.html Helena > ___ grass-dev mailing list grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev
Re: [GRASS-dev] [GRASS-user] please help review osgeo live dvd summary docs
Markus Metz wrote: > An example for vector processing using the basins raster > created in the previous step: > > 1) convert the basins to vector areas with r.to.vect -v feature=area > 2) load average elevation for each basin to the attribute table with > v.rast.stats > 3) assign the color table of the raster elevation using average > elevation values to the basins vector with v.colors column=elev_mean > raster=elevation.10m > 4) display the vector using the colors in GRASSRGB thanks, that leads through nicely. Now added, with some short notes about the attribute table manager, cartographic composer, and graphical modeler under "other things to try". http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/Quick_wxGUI_tutorial#Vector_modules http://adhoc.osgeo.osuosl.org/livedvd/docs/en/quickstart/grass_quickstart.html > BTW, there is no raster map named 'elevation' in the spearfish > dataset, but e.g. 'elevation.10m' as seen in one of the screenshots in > the quickstart. This should be corrected throughout the quickstart. I know, I was trying to make the instructions generic enough to work with either of the two datasets. I figured those using Spearfish would see the .dem and .10m and figure out that they should pick one, but those running in NC would be hunting around for an exact name which didn't exist. Due to severe space limitations on the disc I'm continually concerned about having to remove the NC dataset, or cut it down to Helena's 40mb set. We already ship geotiffs and shapefiles of the same maps as part of the OSGeo Educational dataset for use by all of the 40 or so projects contributing to the disc & their workshops, tutorials, etc. If the instructions are vague enough the quickstart docs might survive an upheaval in the available data. :) > It seems that the basins in 'Watersheds and streams' were > created with the minimum size of the exterior watershed basin threshold > set to 10 cells, not 1 cells (missed a zero). It's not a typo, I just ran it for elevation.dem not elevation.10m. Using elevation.10m with a threshold of 1 cells doesn't match the screenshot but is not so bad, so just try to pick something in the middle and stay loose. > > In addition, on the disc the QGIS-GRASS bridge is broken because > > of this bug: > > http://hub.qgis.org/issues/2947 > > https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/868 > > The live dvd could use sextante for QGIS to access GRASS functionality. > An added bonus would be that sextante has bindings to several GIS > engines, one of them being GRASS, but others should also be already > available on the live dvd. I believe Alex is working on that right now. Ideally we'll have lots of ways to flow between GRASS and QGIS and R and PostGIS all setup and working. helpers & testers are most welcome! IRC: #osgeolive on Freenode or the live-demo@o.o mailing list. Hamish ___ grass-dev mailing list grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev
Re: [GRASS-dev] [GRASS-user] please help review osgeo live dvd summary docs
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 2:32 AM, Hamish wrote: > > There's a copy of the quickstart in the GRASS wiki. Note that > when I wrote it there was a GRASS workshop at the targeted FOSS4G > conference which was going to focus on vector processing, so I > didn't bother to put much of that in the quickstart. Contributions > demonstrating some fancy vector usage that makes GRASS special, > or a common vector task to show how GRASS does it easily, would > be appreciated. Just note that the quickstarts are intended to be > quick- i.e. 5-10 minutes worth, so we've got to keep it concise. An example for vector processing using the basins raster created in the previous step: 1) convert the basins to vector areas with r.to.vect -v feature=area 2) load average elevation for each basin to the attribute table with v.rast.stats 3) assign the color table of the raster elevation using average elevation values to the basins vector with v.colors column=elev_mean raster=elevation.10m 4) display the vector using the colors in GRASSRGB BTW, there is no raster map named 'elevation' in the spearfish dataset, but e.g. 'elevation.10m' as seen in one of the screenshots in the quickstart. This should be corrected throughout the quickstart. It seems that the basins in 'Watersheds and streams' were created with the minimum size of the exterior watershed basin threshold set to 10 cells, not 1 cells (missed a zero). > > > In addition, on the disc the QGIS-GRASS bridge is broken because > of this bug: > http://hub.qgis.org/issues/2947 > https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/868 The live dvd could use sextante for QGIS to access GRASS functionality. An added bonus would be that sextante has bindings to several GIS engines, one of them being GRASS, but others should also be already available on the live dvd. Markus M ___ grass-dev mailing list grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev
