Re: [GRASS-dev] We need mentors for Google Code-In

[Margherita Di Leo]

Dear Anna,

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 7:41 PM, Anna Petrášová 
wrote:

> Hi Vero,
>
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 11:24 AM, Veronica Andreo 
> wrote:
> > Hey devs,
> >
> > As the subject reads: We need more mentors for Google Code-In :)
> >
> > GCI is a competition addressed to high-school students aged 13-17, as an
> > introduction to the open source world. They are supposed to complete as
> much
> > tasks as possible to win the contest. These tasks should be short simple
> > stuff (3-5 hours), but since they have to complete several to win, we
> need
> > to plan lots of them and be available to review what the students submit
> > rather quickly, so they can start with a new one. For that reason, it is
> > better if we are more mentors.
> >
> > Here is the GRASS wiki [0] with more details and a collection of ideas
> for
> > tasks that should then be further explained and developed in the format
> of
> > tasks. I think the ideas are nice and this could be a funny experience.
> > Moreover, we could attract new generations and benefit from their
> creativity
> > ;)
> >
>
> this is probably not very helpful response, but I am little bit
> skeptical about this and maybe you can clarify some things. My main
> problem is that GRASS is not the type of software you just start to
> use and understand it right away. Even making useful screenshots
> requires decent knowledge of the software and geospatial data/models.
> Do you think these students have any ideas about GIS? I confess I
> haven't spent much time thinking about this program yet, but I see a
> lot of time spent by mentors defining precise tasks without too much
> gain. I can see this could be useful for things like designing
> promotional materials, but not much beyond that. But I am open to be
> convinced otherwise.
>
>
>
I had the same doubts as you have, and I think only experience can give us
the answer. I partly overcame my doubts talking to other organizations that
run the code in. They suggested preparing some beginner tasks like
- "Install the software following the instructions here XXX and make a
screenshot"
- "Follow this tutorial XXX and make a screenshot of the result"
- "Prepare a video of 20 minutes, explaining how to get started with the
software to your fellow GCI students"
I think the more complicated is the software, the more work we need to
prepare tasks that are approachable. The good news is that, after the first
year, things get smoother, mentors learn a lot from the students, students
prepare some good material that can be reused for next editions and also
for promoting the software, and students often even come back to mentor
other students.
I have the feeling that if we never try, we never know how will end up.. ;-)


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Re: [GRASS-dev] We need mentors for Google Code-In

[Veronica Andreo]

Will do now :)

I apologize in advance for double posting

Vero

2017-10-05 23:35 GMT+02:00 Helmut Kudrnovsky :

> Veronica Andreo wrote
> > Hey devs,
> >
> > As the subject reads: We need more mentors for Google Code-In :)
> >
> > GCI is a competition addressed to high-school students aged 13-17, as an
> > introduction to the open source world. They are supposed to complete as
> > much tasks as possible to win the contest. These tasks should be short
> > simple stuff (3-5 hours), but since they have to complete several to win,
> > we need to plan lots of them and be available to review what the students
> > submit rather quickly, so they can start with a new one. For that reason,
> > it is better if we are more mentors.
> >
> > Here is the GRASS wiki [0] with more details and a collection of ideas
> for
> > tasks that should then be further explained and developed in the format
> of
> > tasks. I think the ideas are nice and this could be a funny experience.
> > Moreover, we could attract new generations and benefit from their
> > creativity ;)
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Vero
> >
> > [0] https://grasswiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GRASS_GCI_Ideas_2017
>
> to gather more interested mentors, maybe it's worth to broaden it by post
> it
> to also to the GRASS user ML, as not only code writing is needed.
>
>
>
>
> -
> best regards
> Helmut
> --
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Re: [GRASS-dev] We need mentors for Google Code-In

[Helmut Kudrnovsky]

Veronica Andreo wrote
> Hey devs,
> 
> As the subject reads: We need more mentors for Google Code-In :)
> 
> GCI is a competition addressed to high-school students aged 13-17, as an
> introduction to the open source world. They are supposed to complete as
> much tasks as possible to win the contest. These tasks should be short
> simple stuff (3-5 hours), but since they have to complete several to win,
> we need to plan lots of them and be available to review what the students
> submit rather quickly, so they can start with a new one. For that reason,
> it is better if we are more mentors.
> 
> Here is the GRASS wiki [0] with more details and a collection of ideas for
> tasks that should then be further explained and developed in the format of
> tasks. I think the ideas are nice and this could be a funny experience.
> Moreover, we could attract new generations and benefit from their
> creativity ;)
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Vero
> 
> [0] https://grasswiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GRASS_GCI_Ideas_2017

to gather more interested mentors, maybe it's worth to broaden it by post it
to also to the GRASS user ML, as not only code writing is needed.




-
best regards
Helmut
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Re: [GRASS-dev] We need mentors for Google Code-In

[Helmut Kudrnovsky]

Veronica Andreo wrote
> Hi Anna,
> 
> thanks for your answer... I'll try to clarify as much as possible, though
> I'm also rather new in the matter. @Madi & @Helli, please correct me if
> I'm
> wrong
> 
> 2017-10-04 19:41 GMT+02:00 Anna Petrášová 

> kratochanna@

> :
> 
>> Hi Vero,
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 11:24 AM, Veronica Andreo 

> veroandreo@

> 
>> wrote:
>> > Hey devs,
>> >
>> > As the subject reads: We need more mentors for Google Code-In :)
>> >
>> > GCI is a competition addressed to high-school students aged 13-17, as
>> an
>> > introduction to the open source world. They are supposed to complete as
>> much
>> > tasks as possible to win the contest. These tasks should be short
>> simple
>> > stuff (3-5 hours), but since they have to complete several to win, we
>> need
>> > to plan lots of them and be available to review what the students
>> submit
>> > rather quickly, so they can start with a new one. For that reason, it
>> is
>> > better if we are more mentors.
>> >
>> > Here is the GRASS wiki [0] with more details and a collection of ideas
>> for
>> > tasks that should then be further explained and developed in the format
>> of
>> > tasks. I think the ideas are nice and this could be a funny experience.
>> > Moreover, we could attract new generations and benefit from their
>> creativity
>> > ;)
>>
>> this is probably not very helpful response, but I am little bit
>> skeptical about this and maybe you can clarify some things. My main
>> problem is that GRASS is not the type of software you just start to
>> use and understand it right away. Even making useful screenshots
>> requires decent knowledge of the software and geospatial data/models.
>>
> 
> I partially agree... if we compare GRASS today with GRASS some years ago,
> I
> think it has become more accessible to newcomers. However, it is not the
> easiest and most straightforward GIS to start working with. Question for
> us
> could be how to make it friendlier...
> 
> On the other hand, we are the ones defining how *decent* screenshots need
> to be, for example. Do we want all these screenshots (just to grab one of
> the ideas for tasks) to be highly visible in announcements or we are fine
> with simple screenshots proving that they were able to install the
> software, create a location and display a raster map with legend? The
> first
> would be extremely useful, we always need screenshots for announcements
> and
> so on... but the second option is not bad either, if we want to gain users
> and potential developers in the future. Besides, the former might be
> marked
> as a begginer task and the latter as a more advanced one.
> 
> In any case, in GCI, the students are the ones that claim the tasks they
> want, it's not that we choose them according to their background or
> previous knowledge or experience... we might not even be selected by them
> :-/
> 
> 
>> Do you think these students have any ideas about GIS?
> 
> 
> Honestly, I do not know, most probably they don't. But most probably they
> (or most of them) do not know about the other OSGeo projects either, nor
> about other open source projects in general. That's why it is an intro to
> the open source world.
> 
> I confess I haven't spent much time thinking about this program yet, but I
>> see a
>> lot of time spent by mentors defining precise tasks without too much
>> gain.
> 
> 
> Could be... if you only think as for now and in terms of new modules or
> functionalities... but we don't know how it could go, since this is the
> first time OSGeo might participate... If we think a bit more into the
> future this might help us grow our user and potential developers
> community,
> and open source community in general
> 
> I can see this could be useful for things like designing promotional
>> materials, but not much beyond that.
> 
> 
> For sure... and IMHO we very much need that. We need screenshots, we need
> examples and images in the manuals, we need new tutorial wikis and videos,
> and so on...

no idea, if the young students know anything about GIS :-) ... on the other
hand I think, Google Code-In may be a good test case whether GRASS' entry
barrier is too high ... ;-)

in other words: download software, download sample data set, open the
software and do something should be doable ... :-)

thanks to Jeff, there is now an editable wiki: 

https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Google_Code_In_2017_Tasks

to collect task ideas.

I think also mentoring across projects may be needed.




-
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Helmut
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Re: [GRASS-dev] We need mentors for Google Code-In

[Veronica Andreo]

Hi Anna,

thanks for your answer... I'll try to clarify as much as possible, though
I'm also rather new in the matter. @Madi & @Helli, please correct me if I'm
wrong

2017-10-04 19:41 GMT+02:00 Anna Petrášová :

> Hi Vero,
>
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 11:24 AM, Veronica Andreo 
> wrote:
> > Hey devs,
> >
> > As the subject reads: We need more mentors for Google Code-In :)
> >
> > GCI is a competition addressed to high-school students aged 13-17, as an
> > introduction to the open source world. They are supposed to complete as
> much
> > tasks as possible to win the contest. These tasks should be short simple
> > stuff (3-5 hours), but since they have to complete several to win, we
> need
> > to plan lots of them and be available to review what the students submit
> > rather quickly, so they can start with a new one. For that reason, it is
> > better if we are more mentors.
> >
> > Here is the GRASS wiki [0] with more details and a collection of ideas
> for
> > tasks that should then be further explained and developed in the format
> of
> > tasks. I think the ideas are nice and this could be a funny experience.
> > Moreover, we could attract new generations and benefit from their
> creativity
> > ;)
>
> this is probably not very helpful response, but I am little bit
> skeptical about this and maybe you can clarify some things. My main
> problem is that GRASS is not the type of software you just start to
> use and understand it right away. Even making useful screenshots
> requires decent knowledge of the software and geospatial data/models.
>

I partially agree... if we compare GRASS today with GRASS some years ago, I
think it has become more accessible to newcomers. However, it is not the
easiest and most straightforward GIS to start working with. Question for us
could be how to make it friendlier...

On the other hand, we are the ones defining how *decent* screenshots need
to be, for example. Do we want all these screenshots (just to grab one of
the ideas for tasks) to be highly visible in announcements or we are fine
with simple screenshots proving that they were able to install the
software, create a location and display a raster map with legend? The first
would be extremely useful, we always need screenshots for announcements and
so on... but the second option is not bad either, if we want to gain users
and potential developers in the future. Besides, the former might be marked
as a begginer task and the latter as a more advanced one.

In any case, in GCI, the students are the ones that claim the tasks they
want, it's not that we choose them according to their background or
previous knowledge or experience... we might not even be selected by them
:-/


> Do you think these students have any ideas about GIS?


Honestly, I do not know, most probably they don't. But most probably they
(or most of them) do not know about the other OSGeo projects either, nor
about other open source projects in general. That's why it is an intro to
the open source world.

I confess I haven't spent much time thinking about this program yet, but I
> see a
> lot of time spent by mentors defining precise tasks without too much gain.


Could be... if you only think as for now and in terms of new modules or
functionalities... but we don't know how it could go, since this is the
first time OSGeo might participate... If we think a bit more into the
future this might help us grow our user and potential developers community,
and open source community in general

I can see this could be useful for things like designing promotional
> materials, but not much beyond that.


For sure... and IMHO we very much need that. We need screenshots, we need
examples and images in the manuals, we need new tutorial wikis and videos,
and so on...

HTH :)
Vero
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Re: [GRASS-dev] We need mentors for Google Code-In

[Helmut Kudrnovsky]

Anna Petrášová wrote
> Hi Vero,
> 
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 11:24 AM, Veronica Andreo 

> veroandreo@

>  wrote:
>> Hey devs,
>>
>> As the subject reads: We need more mentors for Google Code-In :)
>>
>> GCI is a competition addressed to high-school students aged 13-17, as an
>> introduction to the open source world. They are supposed to complete as
>> much
>> tasks as possible to win the contest. These tasks should be short simple
>> stuff (3-5 hours), but since they have to complete several to win, we
>> need
>> to plan lots of them and be available to review what the students submit
>> rather quickly, so they can start with a new one. For that reason, it is
>> better if we are more mentors.
>>
>> Here is the GRASS wiki [0] with more details and a collection of ideas
>> for
>> tasks that should then be further explained and developed in the format
>> of
>> tasks. I think the ideas are nice and this could be a funny experience.
>> Moreover, we could attract new generations and benefit from their
>> creativity
>> ;)
>>
> 
> this is probably not very helpful response, but I am little bit
> skeptical about this and maybe you can clarify some things. My main
> problem is that GRASS is not the type of software you just start to
> use and understand it right away. Even making useful screenshots
> requires decent knowledge of the software and geospatial data/models.
> Do you think these students have any ideas about GIS? I confess I
> haven't spent much time thinking about this program yet, but I see a
> lot of time spent by mentors defining precise tasks without too much
> gain. I can see this could be useful for things like designing
> promotional materials, but not much beyond that. But I am open to be
> convinced otherwise.

AFAIU Google Code-In, yes, it needs a strategic plan to define precise tasks
doable in a couple of hours by the young students. 

it's possible to mark tasks as "beginners", e.g. download GRASS GIS for your
platform, download NC sample data set, start GRASS with the sample data set
and set the computional region and post the output of g.region -p. 

such "beginners" tasks are there that the young students are getting
comfortable with the software/environment.

and yes, promotional materials are good candidates for tasks. e.g. take some
cool existing screenshots/graphics from manuals/addons/wiki and design a
fancy GRASS GIS t-shirt.

etc etc

HTH




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Re: [GRASS-dev] We need mentors for Google Code-In

[Anna Petrášová]

Hi Vero,

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 11:24 AM, Veronica Andreo  wrote:
> Hey devs,
>
> As the subject reads: We need more mentors for Google Code-In :)
>
> GCI is a competition addressed to high-school students aged 13-17, as an
> introduction to the open source world. They are supposed to complete as much
> tasks as possible to win the contest. These tasks should be short simple
> stuff (3-5 hours), but since they have to complete several to win, we need
> to plan lots of them and be available to review what the students submit
> rather quickly, so they can start with a new one. For that reason, it is
> better if we are more mentors.
>
> Here is the GRASS wiki [0] with more details and a collection of ideas for
> tasks that should then be further explained and developed in the format of
> tasks. I think the ideas are nice and this could be a funny experience.
> Moreover, we could attract new generations and benefit from their creativity
> ;)
>

this is probably not very helpful response, but I am little bit
skeptical about this and maybe you can clarify some things. My main
problem is that GRASS is not the type of software you just start to
use and understand it right away. Even making useful screenshots
requires decent knowledge of the software and geospatial data/models.
Do you think these students have any ideas about GIS? I confess I
haven't spent much time thinking about this program yet, but I see a
lot of time spent by mentors defining precise tasks without too much
gain. I can see this could be useful for things like designing
promotional materials, but not much beyond that. But I am open to be
convinced otherwise.

Thanks,

Anna


> Thanks!
>
> Vero
>
> [0] https://grasswiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GRASS_GCI_Ideas_2017
>
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[GRASS-dev] We need mentors for Google Code-In

[Veronica Andreo]

Hey devs,

As the subject reads: We need more mentors for Google Code-In :)

GCI is a competition addressed to high-school students aged 13-17, as an
introduction to the open source world. They are supposed to complete as
much tasks as possible to win the contest. These tasks should be short
simple stuff (3-5 hours), but since they have to complete several to win,
we need to plan lots of them and be available to review what the students
submit rather quickly, so they can start with a new one. For that reason,
it is better if we are more mentors.

Here is the GRASS wiki [0] with more details and a collection of ideas for
tasks that should then be further explained and developed in the format of
tasks. I think the ideas are nice and this could be a funny experience.
Moreover, we could attract new generations and benefit from their
creativity ;)

Thanks!

Vero

[0] https://grasswiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GRASS_GCI_Ideas_2017
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