Re: [groff] 05/14: tbl(1): Say decimal "separator", not "point".

[Keith Marshall]

On 01/11/2021 13:19, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> gbranden pushed a commit to branch master
> in repository groff.
> 
> commit a0ec5ffd258b9f54daa46b88471ec837e8213ad1
> Author: Bjarni Ingi Gislason 
> AuthorDate: Sun Oct 31 00:42:09 2021 +
> 
> tbl(1): Say decimal "separator", not "point".

Surely, the correct English-language terminology is "radix point", (and
where the radix is "decimal", this becomes "decimal point").  It is
irrelevant whether the prevailing convention, of the user's locale, is
to represent the radix point by a comma, or a period, we do *not* refer
to a "decimal comma", or a "decimal period", (or a "decimal dot"); the
correct terminology is "decimal point".

This change introduces invalid terminology, and should be reverted.

Re: [groff] 05/14: tbl(1): Say decimal "separator", not "point".

[G. Branden Robinson]

Dave noted in Savannah #61371[1] that there hadn't been much follow-up
on this.

> However, Keith's claim that "decimal separator" is "invalid
> terminology" is contradicted by Wikipedia's extensive, and extensively
> annotated, entry for the term
> , which also says that
> "radix point" is the more general term used when bases other than 10
> are under consideration.

However, as I think Ralph might remind us, Wikipedia is not
authoritative.

At 2021-11-01T22:48:21+, Keith Marshall wrote:
> On 01/11/2021 13:19, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > gbranden pushed a commit to branch master
> > in repository groff.
> > 
> > commit a0ec5ffd258b9f54daa46b88471ec837e8213ad1
> > Author: Bjarni Ingi Gislason 
> > AuthorDate: Sun Oct 31 00:42:09 2021 +
> > 
> > tbl(1): Say decimal "separator", not "point".
> 
> Surely, the correct English-language terminology is "radix point",

There is little in English language usage that is apodictic.

> (and where the radix is "decimal", this becomes "decimal point").  It
> is irrelevant whether the prevailing convention, of the user's locale,
> is to represent the radix point by a comma, or a period, we do *not*
> refer to a "decimal comma", or a "decimal period", (or a "decimal
> dot"); the correct terminology is "decimal point".

tbl(1) itself doesn't recognize any number base other than decimal, and
overgeneralizing could mislead the reader into an inference that it
does.

> This change introduces invalid terminology, and should be reverted.

I don't agree.  POSIX uses the terms "decimal delimiter" and "radix
character"[2].  On the commercial side, Oracle[3] and Microsoft[4] both
use the term "decimal separator" in technical documentation.  On the
more general international standardization front, apparently the term
"decimal marker" is preferred[5], at least by the Bureau International
des Poids et Mesures (BIPM).

Given that the table option name to which the commit refers is
"decimalpoint", which goes back to 1970s AT&T tbl, has no synonym in any
tbl implementation I'm aware of, and therefore would be inadvisable to
withdraw in a short time frame, the reader's view of your approved
terminology is not obscured.

In a more purely mathematical context, I prefer the term "radix point",
myself.

Anyone have access to authoritative sources that might weigh on the
issue?

Regards,
Branden

[1] https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?61371
[2] https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/basedefs/V1_chap07.html
[3] in "Solaris Internationalization Overview"
https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19455-01/806-0169/overview-9/index.html
[4] in a document hierarchy with a root named "Globalization overview"
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/globalization/locale/number-formatting
[5] 
https://web.archive.org/web/20210121220851/https://www.bipm.org/utils/en/pdf/Resol22CGPM-EN.pdf


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Re: [groff] 05/14: tbl(1): Say decimal "separator", not "point".

[Douglas McIlroy]

> In a more purely mathematical context, I prefer the term "radix point", 
> myself.

After reading the long list of suggestions, I would nominate"radix
separator" as a Utopian candidate, ideal but unrealistic. Then I would
vote for some term already in wide use.

Doug