Re: Enumerator spacing in bullet lists with mom
Jan -- On Tue, Apr 16, 2024, Jan Eden wrote: > ...the sample output you sent is identical (or at least very > similar) to my output. I must admit that I oversimplified > (shortened) the source code posted to the list; the effect is > much more pronounced with list items spanning several lines (s. > attached file). You're quite right. Normally, items in bulleted lists are much shorter and the default spacing looks balanced. When you have a lot of text, the balance is thrown off. The USER arg to LIST is there precisely so users can take control of things like increasing or decreasing the size of the bullets, or, in your case, increasing the gutter between the bullet and the text. -- Peter Schaffter https://www.schaffter.ca
Re: Re: Enumerator spacing in bullet lists with mom
Hi Peter, On 2024-04-16 13:22, Peter Schaffter wrote: > Jan -- > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2024, Jan Eden wrote: > > I am currently testing the mom and mm macro packages, and noticed that > > mom uses sensible defaults for almost anything out of the box. > > > > Bullet lists (or lists with other static enumerators like dashes), > > however, are set with very little space between the enumerator and the > > item text. This is not true for ALPHA or DIGIT lists, which are set very > > well. > > Processing your test file with the lastest mom (2.6_c), the spacing > between bullets/dashes and subsequent text looks fine and observes > the typographic conventions with which I am familiar. I'm attaching > a pdf of the output (I added a dashed list) so you can verfiy it > looks the same as what you have been seeing. If not, update to > 2.6_c. I did use version 2.5_d, but the sample output you sent is identical (or at least very similar) to my output. I must admit that I oversimplified (shortened) the source code posted to the list; the effect is much more pronounced with list items spanning several lines (s. attached file). > If mom's default bullet/dash spacing is still, to your eyes, not > correct, you change it with the USER argument to LIST. For example, > > .LIST USER "\[bu]\ " > > adds a non-stretching wordspace to the bullet. If you want more > precise control, e.g. 3 points of space, > > .LIST USER "\[bu]\*[FWD 3p]" > or > .LIST USER "\[bu]\h'3p'" > > The first uses mom's inline escape for forward movements, the second > uses groff's native escape for the same thing. The two are > equivalent. \[en] can be used if you want dashed lists with extra > spacing between the dash and the text. Thank you very much – this is similar to what Thomas recommended earlier on the list, and I will follow your advice. Regarding the correctness of mom's default spacing for bullet lists: All other aspects of mom's output were excellent right away, which is why I assumed some error (probably on my part). As it turns out, I just have bad taste or at least a knack for overly spacious formatting. :) > > This is my test file: > > > > .PAPER A4 > > > > .TITLE "Some Title" > > A piece of advice: As a general rule, it is preferable to insert > blank lines (visual spacers) into mom text files by putting a period > (dot) at the start of the line, like so > > .PAPER A4 > . > .TITLE "Some Title" Thanks, I will do so. I already wondered in which context blank text lines (without a dot) create additional space, but this is a great tip. - Jan list-test2.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Enumerator spacing in bullet lists with mom
Jan -- On Tue, Apr 16, 2024, Jan Eden wrote: > I am currently testing the mom and mm macro packages, and noticed that > mom uses sensible defaults for almost anything out of the box. > > Bullet lists (or lists with other static enumerators like dashes), > however, are set with very little space between the enumerator and the > item text. This is not true for ALPHA or DIGIT lists, which are set very > well. Processing your test file with the lastest mom (2.6_c), the spacing between bullets/dashes and subsequent text looks fine and observes the typographic conventions with which I am familiar. I'm attaching a pdf of the output (I added a dashed list) so you can verfiy it looks the same as what you have been seeing. If not, update to 2.6_c. If mom's default bullet/dash spacing is still, to your eyes, not correct, you change it with the USER argument to LIST. For example, .LIST USER "\[bu]\ " adds a non-stretching wordspace to the bullet. If you want more precise control, e.g. 3 points of space, .LIST USER "\[bu]\*[FWD 3p]" or .LIST USER "\[bu]\h'3p'" The first uses mom's inline escape for forward movements, the second uses groff's native escape for the same thing. The two are equivalent. \[en] can be used if you want dashed lists with extra spacing between the dash and the text. > This is my test file: > > .PAPER A4 > > .TITLE "Some Title" A piece of advice: As a general rule, it is preferable to insert blank lines (visual spacers) into mom text files by putting a period (dot) at the start of the line, like so .PAPER A4 . .TITLE "Some Title" -- Peter Schaffter https://www.schaffter.ca list-test.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document
Re: Re: Enumerator spacing in bullet lists with mom
On 2024-04-16 13:57, Thomas Dupond wrote: > Le 2024-04-16 à 12:18, Jan Eden a écrit : > > [...] > > > > > > You could do something like this: > > > > > > .LIST USER "\[bu]\h[0.3c]" > > > .ITEM > > > First item > > > .ITEM > > > Second item > > > .LIST OFF > > > > That works, thank you (although it is a bit of a hack, and I expected a > > more structured option to control the spacing)! > > If this is to much to bare you can hide it under the carpet with your own > macro like such: > > .de maListe > .LIST USER "\[bu]\h[0.3c]" > .. > .maListe > .ITEM > First item > .ITEM > Second item > .LIST OFF > > Or if you want to be able to change it on the fly you can do: > > .de maListe > .LIST USER "\[bu]\h[\\$1]" > .. > .maListe 0.3c > .ITEM > First item > .ITEM > Second item > .LIST OFF > > Have fun :) Nice – thanks again! I am afraid I came across as overly demanding, whereas I was just genuinely surprised that the mom .LIST macro does not provide a "native" way to change the spacing. - Jan
Re: Enumerator spacing in bullet lists with mom
Le 2024-04-16 à 12:18, Jan Eden a écrit : [...] You could do something like this: .LIST USER "\[bu]\h[0.3c]" .ITEM First item .ITEM Second item .LIST OFF That works, thank you (although it is a bit of a hack, and I expected a more structured option to control the spacing)! If this is to much to bare you can hide it under the carpet with your own macro like such: .de maListe .LIST USER "\[bu]\h[0.3c]" .. .maListe .ITEM First item .ITEM Second item .LIST OFF Or if you want to be able to change it on the fly you can do: .de maListe .LIST USER "\[bu]\h[\\$1]" .. .maListe 0.3c .ITEM First item .ITEM Second item .LIST OFF Have fun :) -- Thomas
Re: Re: Enumerator spacing in bullet lists with mom
On 2024-04-16 10:04, Thomas Dupond wrote: > Le 2024-04-16 à 09:49, Jan Eden a écrit : > > [...] > > > > > You can see what a list should look like thanks to the document > > > "mon_premier_doc.pdf" provided with your groff install. > > > > > > On my debian system it is present at > > > /usr/share/doc/groff/examples/mom/mon_premier_doc.pdf.gz > > > > Thanks – this document displays the same (minimal) spacing I described > > above. > > > > > In case you do want to modify the spacing you can follow the > > > documentation: > > > > > > - locally at > > > file:///usr/share/doc/groff-base/html/mom/docelement.html#list > > > - online at http://www.schaffter.ca/mom/momdoc/docelement.html#list > > > > I did read the documentation on lists, but I only found a > > argument to the .ITEM macro, which refers to the vertical spacing > > between list elements. > > You could do something like this: > > .LIST USER "\[bu]\h[0.3c]" > .ITEM > First item > .ITEM > Second item > .LIST OFF That works, thank you (although it is a bit of a hack, and I expected a more structured option to control the spacing)! - Jan
Re: Enumerator spacing in bullet lists with mom
Le 2024-04-16 à 09:49, Jan Eden a écrit : [...] You can see what a list should look like thanks to the document "mon_premier_doc.pdf" provided with your groff install. On my debian system it is present at /usr/share/doc/groff/examples/mom/mon_premier_doc.pdf.gz Thanks – this document displays the same (minimal) spacing I described above. In case you do want to modify the spacing you can follow the documentation: - locally at file:///usr/share/doc/groff-base/html/mom/docelement.html#list - online at http://www.schaffter.ca/mom/momdoc/docelement.html#list I did read the documentation on lists, but I only found a argument to the .ITEM macro, which refers to the vertical spacing between list elements. You could do something like this: .LIST USER "\[bu]\h[0.3c]" .ITEM First item .ITEM Second item .LIST OFF -- Thomas
Re: Re: Enumerator spacing in bullet lists with mom
Salut Thomas, On 2024-04-16 09:13, Thomas Dupond wrote: > Hello Jan, > > Jan Eden a écrit : > > Hi, > > > > I am currently testing the mom and mm macro packages, and noticed that > > mom uses sensible defaults for almost anything out of the box. > > > > Bullet lists (or lists with other static enumerators like dashes), > > however, are set with very little space between the enumerator and the > > item text. This is not true for ALPHA or DIGIT lists, which are set very > > well. > > > > I wonder if I am doing something wrong – because the spacing looks really > > bad in an otherwise properly formatted document – and how the spacing can > > be changed manually (in case I did not do anything wrong). > > > > This is my test file: > > > > [...] > You can see what a list should look like thanks to the document > "mon_premier_doc.pdf" provided with your groff install. > > On my debian system it is present at > /usr/share/doc/groff/examples/mom/mon_premier_doc.pdf.gz Thanks – this document displays the same (minimal) spacing I described above. > In case you do want to modify the spacing you can follow the documentation: > > - locally at file:///usr/share/doc/groff-base/html/mom/docelement.html#list > - online at http://www.schaffter.ca/mom/momdoc/docelement.html#list I did read the documentation on lists, but I only found a argument to the .ITEM macro, which refers to the vertical spacing between list elements. - Jan
Re: Enumerator spacing in bullet lists with mom
Hello Jan, Jan Eden a écrit : > Hi, > > I am currently testing the mom and mm macro packages, and noticed that > mom uses sensible defaults for almost anything out of the box. > > Bullet lists (or lists with other static enumerators like dashes), > however, are set with very little space between the enumerator and the > item text. This is not true for ALPHA or DIGIT lists, which are set very > well. > > I wonder if I am doing something wrong – because the spacing looks really > bad in an otherwise properly formatted document – and how the spacing can > be changed manually (in case I did not do anything wrong). > > This is my test file: > > .PAPER A4 > > .TITLE "Some Title" > .AUTHOR "Jan Eden" > .PRINTSTYLE TYPESET > .FAMILY Garamond > .START > > .HEADING 1 "First Heading" > .PP > Some text ... > .LIST > .ITEM > First item > .ITEM > Second item > .LIST OFF You can see what a list should look like thanks to the document "mon_premier_doc.pdf" provided with your groff install. On my debian system it is present at /usr/share/doc/groff/examples/mom/mon_premier_doc.pdf.gz In case you do want to modify the spacing you can follow the documentation: - locally at file:///usr/share/doc/groff-base/html/mom/docelement.html#list - online at http://www.schaffter.ca/mom/momdoc/docelement.html#list > Creating a similar document with mm (with the .BL macro) resulted in proper spacing. > > - Jan -- Regards, Thomas
