Re: Status of UNDI Support
On Saturday 11 March 2006 14:42, Marco Gerards wrote: > NDIS drivers are non-free software. We can't and will not support > this. It can't even be done unofficially, in that case it will be a > license violation, AFAIK. From purely legal point of view, this is in a gray zone. For example, if you compile GPL code on a proprietary C library, is this illegal? Note that BIOS and Open Firmware are not Free Software usually, but we still use them. > And besides that, using non-free software is just not the right thing > to do. I agree. Okuji ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
Re: Status of UNDI Support
Vesa Jääskeläinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Marco Gerards wrote: >> I prefer to support both. The etherboot drivers usually work better >> than UNDI, AFAIK. But when etherboot does not support a card, people >> can fall back to UNDI. Don't forget that not all cards support UNDI, >> so I don't want UNDI only. > > I think the many driver manufactures has NDIS drivers. So I think > supporting this option would be nice. Perhaps when the network driver > interface has been specified (and I have all critical parts in video > support done), I could check it out. NDIS drivers are non-free software. We can't and will not support this. It can't even be done unofficially, in that case it will be a license violation, AFAIK. And besides that, using non-free software is just not the right thing to do. -- Marco ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
Re: Status of UNDI Support
Marco Gerards wrote: > I prefer to support both. The etherboot drivers usually work better > than UNDI, AFAIK. But when etherboot does not support a card, people > can fall back to UNDI. Don't forget that not all cards support UNDI, > so I don't want UNDI only. I think the many driver manufactures has NDIS drivers. So I think supporting this option would be nice. Perhaps when the network driver interface has been specified (and I have all critical parts in video support done), I could check it out. Here is the URL for it: http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net/ Thanks, Vesa Jääskeläinen ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
Re: Status of UNDI Support
Martin Vogt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Martin, > thanks for your reply. I read a bit grub2-devel and found out that there > are some thoughts about linuxbios support. > I dont know if linuxbios has some abstraction for network access. > Usually (clusterenvironment) you get linuxbios with the right > etherboot prom installed. The normal way for installing is > booting an .ebi installer. > The other way which somtimes is used, you go over pxe to > the right etherboot image and then load an ebi. > Only as an idea: It would be great if one grub binary could > work on then UNDI layer and the etherboot layer (if there is any). GRUB is quite modular and it should be easy to this. You can choose which modules go into the pxe image. There will be modules for networking, the drivers and for UNDI. -- Marco ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
Re: Status of UNDI Support
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Yedidyah Bar-David) writes: > On Fri, Mar 10, 2006 at 03:07:36PM +0100, Marco Gerards wrote: >> Martin Vogt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> > Isnt it possible to re-use some UNDI support from pxelinux and put it >> > into grub2? > > While I do not know the internals of grub2, I guess some parts of it run > in protected mode, while pxelinux is realmode only. I think this means > it won't be easy to use parts of it. GRUB is able to switch to realmode and back. It's what's done when accessing the BIOS to read from disk. >> >> I don't know. I think it is better that we write it ourselves, it >> does not appear too hard to implement... > > Looking at the sources of pxelinux, it seems somewhat more complex than > what you can tell from reading the specs, mainly because you want, as > reasonably as possible, to support also buggy PXE stacks etc. So while > it's probably not that hard, it would make sense to look at pxelinux for > reference if not for the code. > > I personally was a user of both etherboot, grub with etherboot drivers > and grub with undi (which indeed did not work well for me back then - I > did not try it recently), and I agree it would make more sense for grub2 > to support undi only, unlike grub legacy which tried to support > everything etherboot supported, which was probably too much > synchronization work and therefore did not work well. I prefer to support both. The etherboot drivers usually work better than UNDI, AFAIK. But when etherboot does not support a card, people can fall back to UNDI. Don't forget that not all cards support UNDI, so I don't want UNDI only. -- Marco ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
Re: Status of UNDI Support
On Fri, Mar 10, 2006 at 03:07:36PM +0100, Marco Gerards wrote: > Martin Vogt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Isnt it possible to re-use some UNDI support from pxelinux and put it > > into grub2? While I do not know the internals of grub2, I guess some parts of it run in protected mode, while pxelinux is realmode only. I think this means it won't be easy to use parts of it. > > I don't know. I think it is better that we write it ourselves, it > does not appear too hard to implement... Looking at the sources of pxelinux, it seems somewhat more complex than what you can tell from reading the specs, mainly because you want, as reasonably as possible, to support also buggy PXE stacks etc. So while it's probably not that hard, it would make sense to look at pxelinux for reference if not for the code. I personally was a user of both etherboot, grub with etherboot drivers and grub with undi (which indeed did not work well for me back then - I did not try it recently), and I agree it would make more sense for grub2 to support undi only, unlike grub legacy which tried to support everything etherboot supported, which was probably too much synchronization work and therefore did not work well. -- Didi ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
Re: Status of UNDI Support
Marco Gerards wrote: > Martin Vogt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Martin, > > >> I just tried pxegrub2, but I found out that the network support >> is missing. (can load pxegrub, but no menu.lst or kernel etc) >> >> My experience with grub1 and the etherboot based nic support, >> is that it does not work well, so I still use pxelinux. >> I always thought that grub2 wont use etheboot and only supports UNDI, >> like pxelinux. >> > > At the moment GRUB 2 does not support networking. But we are working > on that. > > >> Isnt it possible to re-use some UNDI support from pxelinux and put it >> into grub2? >> > > I don't know. I think it is better that we write it ourselves, it > does not appear too hard to implement... > > Hi Marco, thanks for your reply. I read a bit grub2-devel and found out that there are some thoughts about linuxbios support. I dont know if linuxbios has some abstraction for network access. Usually (clusterenvironment) you get linuxbios with the right etherboot prom installed. The normal way for installing is booting an .ebi installer. The other way which somtimes is used, you go over pxe to the right etherboot image and then load an ebi. Only as an idea: It would be great if one grub binary could work on then UNDI layer and the etherboot layer (if there is any). But I dont know if this is possible at all. regards, Martin ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
Re: Status of UNDI Support
I am resending this mail, it looks that it didn't get through: Martin Vogt wrote: Hello grub2 developers, I just tried pxegrub2, but I found out that the network support is missing. (can load pxegrub, but no menu.lst or kernel etc) hi, i have been working on netboot support for grub2 for a while and even got it working once using code from etherboot. I am now grubifying the work in order to submit a patch. The PCI support is on its way and is going to feature an abstract interface which should ease the merging of new implementations. My experience with grub1 and the etherboot based nic support, is that it does not work well, so I still use pxelinux. I always thought that grub2 wont use etheboot and only supports UNDI, like pxelinux. As far as I know, a lot of problems related to netboot in grub were linked to the fact that the drivers could not easily be linked together as it could result in grub freezing of behaving improperly. The idea in grub2 is still to use the etherboot drivers but not to be limited by them. There will be a "glue" layer in order to import the etherboot drivers, hopefully with as little modifications as possible, but it will be possible to extend that. Isnt it possible to re-use some UNDI support from pxelinux and put it into grub2? I don't know very much about this UNDI support but this is certainly not incompatible with using the etherboot drivers for supported cards anyway. Grub is very flexible and we can certainly have both support if it is worth it. regards, Martin -- Vincent Guffens Intelligent Systems & Networks Group Research associate, Imperial College ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
Re: Status of UNDI Support
Martin Vogt wrote: Hello grub2 developers, I just tried pxegrub2, but I found out that the network support is missing. (can load pxegrub, but no menu.lst or kernel etc) hi, i have been working on netboot support for grub2 for a while and even got it working once using code from etherboot. I am now grubifying the work in order to submit a patch. The PCI support is on its way and is going to feature an abstract interface which should ease the merging of new implementations. My experience with grub1 and the etherboot based nic support, is that it does not work well, so I still use pxelinux. I always thought that grub2 wont use etheboot and only supports UNDI, like pxelinux. As far as I know, a lot of problems related to netboot in grub were linked to the fact that the drivers could not easily be linked together as it could result in grub freezing of behaving improperly. The idea in grub2 is still to use the etherboot drivers but not to be limited by them. There will be a "glue" layer in order to import the etherboot drivers, hopefully with as little modifications as possible, but it will be possible to extend that. Isnt it possible to re-use some UNDI support from pxelinux and put it into grub2? I don't know very much about this UNDI support but this is certainly not incompatible with using the etherboot drivers for supported cards anyway. Grub is very flexible and we can certainly have both support if it is worth it. regards, Martin -- Vincent Guffens Intelligent Systems & Networks Group Research associate, Imperial College ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
Re: Status of UNDI Support
Martin Vogt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Martin, > I just tried pxegrub2, but I found out that the network support > is missing. (can load pxegrub, but no menu.lst or kernel etc) > > My experience with grub1 and the etherboot based nic support, > is that it does not work well, so I still use pxelinux. > I always thought that grub2 wont use etheboot and only supports UNDI, > like pxelinux. At the moment GRUB 2 does not support networking. But we are working on that. > Isnt it possible to re-use some UNDI support from pxelinux and put it > into grub2? I don't know. I think it is better that we write it ourselves, it does not appear too hard to implement... -- Marco ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
Status of UNDI Support
Hello grub2 developers, I just tried pxegrub2, but I found out that the network support is missing. (can load pxegrub, but no menu.lst or kernel etc) My experience with grub1 and the etherboot based nic support, is that it does not work well, so I still use pxelinux. I always thought that grub2 wont use etheboot and only supports UNDI, like pxelinux. Isnt it possible to re-use some UNDI support from pxelinux and put it into grub2? regards, Martin -- = Martin Vogt ITWM - Fraunhofer Institut fuer Techno- und Wirtschaftsmathematik Fraunhofer-Platz 1 D-67663 Kaiserslautern, Germany Tel. +49 (0) 631/31600 4356, Fax -5356 = ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
