Re: GSoC proposal: gtk+ bindings for prolog
On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 06:44 +0200, Jean-Yves Lefort wrote: The information is mostly complete. The generator can automatically handle methods which involve fundamental types (gboolean, gint, ...), GLib enum and flags types, and GObject-derived types. Such methods represent a vast majority of the GTK+ API. For other methods, it emits a warning, for instance ignoring method gtk_list_store_append(): unhandled parameter type GtkTreeIter*. I then manually add the needed information to a configuration file. By the way, in case some GTK+ developer is reading: it would have been nice if GLib/GTK+ had offered a way to obtain type and method information without having to hack up a .h parser, eg: GType *gtk_get_types (int *num_types); GMethodInfo *g_type_get_methods (GType type, int *num_methods); It seems like a natural continuation of the reflection facilities already present in GLib. h2defs.py might be useful to you. It is used by pygtk and gtkmm: http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/pygtk/trunk/codegen/ There is work happening on fuller introspection for GObject. There is also a language-bindings mailing list which might help with general bindings issues. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: GSoC proposal: gtk+ bindings for prolog
Am Dienstag, den 01.04.2008, 12:56 +0200 schrieb Jean-Yves Lefort: On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:52:09 +0200 Ben Torfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a fan of both the prolog programming language and the GTK+ toolkit (as a user), I was wondering why the GTK page makes no mention of any prolog bindings. For those of you that are unfamiliar: prolog is a declarative language (like haskell, but very different in the way it works). Until now, it has mostly been used as a research tool in artificial intelligence (theorem proving, knowledge representation, etc.) However, I believe it has a lot of potential to be used for desktop applications too. Haskell too, for example, has also proven to be a success for end-user applications (gtk+ bindings exist). I think prolog is just a breeze to program in, and I would love to push it further! Specifically, by implementing GTK+ bindings for this language myself, as a Google Summer of Code project. Implementing all functions would probably be too much work for a 3-month project, but it could certainly deliver a basic subset, as a basis for myself and other developers to continue working on later. It should take much less than 3 months. I've implemented exhaustive GTK+ bindings for a language I'm designing in a couple of days. The internal API representation suitable for use by a generator program can be automatically obtained: - for types and methods, by parsing the C headers Please don't replicate efforts done by other binding authors, please. Really. Read the GTK+ Hackfest papers about GTK+ 3.0 and look for recent information about GObject introspection support. Search for pybank, which is a prototype[?] for a next-generation GObject binding and understand how it works. Perl has a related project if you prefer that language, but I don't know its name. After getting a basic idea about recent binding efforts you might want to join #introspection at irc.gimp.org. Btw, why is the language-bindings list dead? Which mailing list is used for discussing (and documenting) pybank and introspection efforts? All this shiny infrastructure is not in place yet, but hopefully it will be next spring. With that infrastructure creation of Prolog bindings looks much more useful and educational that it is this year - in the sense of we do, because we can do itin a reasonable way. IMHO. Ciao, Mathias -- Mathias Hasselmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Openismus GmbH: http://www.openismus.com/ Personal Site: http://taschenorakel.de/ signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: GSoC proposal: gtk+ bindings for prolog
On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 09:52:18 +0200 Murray Cumming [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 06:44 +0200, Jean-Yves Lefort wrote: The information is mostly complete. The generator can automatically handle methods which involve fundamental types (gboolean, gint, ...), GLib enum and flags types, and GObject-derived types. Such methods represent a vast majority of the GTK+ API. For other methods, it emits a warning, for instance ignoring method gtk_list_store_append(): unhandled parameter type GtkTreeIter*. I then manually add the needed information to a configuration file. By the way, in case some GTK+ developer is reading: it would have been nice if GLib/GTK+ had offered a way to obtain type and method information without having to hack up a .h parser, eg: GType *gtk_get_types (int *num_types); GMethodInfo *g_type_get_methods (GType type, int *num_methods); It seems like a natural continuation of the reflection facilities already present in GLib. h2defs.py might be useful to you. It is used by pygtk and gtkmm: http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/pygtk/trunk/codegen/ There is also gapi2xml.pl in gtk-sharp, and probably a few others. There is work happening on fuller introspection for GObject. Good news. -- Jean-Yves Lefort [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp6FJuMqyZ37.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: GSoC proposal: gtk+ bindings for prolog
On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 09:54:54 +0200 Mathias Hasselmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Mittwoch, den 02.04.2008, 06:44 +0200 schrieb Jean-Yves Lefort: On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:32:02 -0500 Yevgen Muntyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jean-Yves Lefort wrote: On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:52:09 +0200 Ben Torfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It should take much less than 3 months. I've implemented exhaustive GTK+ bindings for a language I'm designing in a couple of days. Then your bindings most likely really really suck. Ignorance or provocation? Whichever. No, just the hint that it takes more than just a few days to design good bindings. Current bindings needed years to become sound. No, it doesn't. I wrote mine in less than a week, and I can assure you that they are perfectly sound. -- Jean-Yves Lefort [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp1ozCwPv9DV.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: GSoC proposal: gtk+ bindings for prolog
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:52:09 +0200 Ben Torfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a fan of both the prolog programming language and the GTK+ toolkit (as a user), I was wondering why the GTK page makes no mention of any prolog bindings. For those of you that are unfamiliar: prolog is a declarative language (like haskell, but very different in the way it works). Until now, it has mostly been used as a research tool in artificial intelligence (theorem proving, knowledge representation, etc.) However, I believe it has a lot of potential to be used for desktop applications too. Haskell too, for example, has also proven to be a success for end-user applications (gtk+ bindings exist). I think prolog is just a breeze to program in, and I would love to push it further! Specifically, by implementing GTK+ bindings for this language myself, as a Google Summer of Code project. Implementing all functions would probably be too much work for a 3-month project, but it could certainly deliver a basic subset, as a basis for myself and other developers to continue working on later. It should take much less than 3 months. I've implemented exhaustive GTK+ bindings for a language I'm designing in a couple of days. The internal API representation suitable for use by a generator program can be automatically obtained: - for types and methods, by parsing the C headers - for properties and signals, by using GLib introspection mechanisms such as g_object_class_list_properties() Regarding the usefulness: I would say that for general-purpose programming, Prolog is useless, and so would be your bindings. -- Jean-Yves Lefort [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpg96i5ybty6.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: GSoC proposal: gtk+ bindings for prolog
Hi Ben, I am not CC'ing gtk-devel-list because 1) it's off-topic, 2) it won't do any good. gtk-devel-list is a list for discussing development of Gtk itself, not anything related to Gtk. I doubt your idea is good for Gnome SoC because of the following (I am a former SoC participant, so I've been around this a little). Gnome SoC ideas must be shiny. They need not be useful but they must look and sound great, otherwise you need a sponsor who is really interested in the work to be done, in which case the idea need not be shiny but it must be good and useful. Prolog bindings don't seem to fall in either category, IMO (namely, you won't find a sponsor, I am not saying it's bad or useless). But, that's my opinion, which doesn't matter. You should contact the SoC people about it - they have an IRC channel and a mailing list. Who knows, my SoC work wasn't exactly shiny too :) Best regards, Yevgen Ben Torfs wrote: Hello, developers! As a fan of both the prolog programming language and the GTK+ toolkit (as a user), I was wondering why the GTK page makes no mention of any prolog bindings. For those of you that are unfamiliar: prolog is a declarative language (like haskell, but very different in the way it works). Until now, it has mostly been used as a research tool in artificial intelligence (theorem proving, knowledge representation, etc.) However, I believe it has a lot of potential to be used for desktop applications too. Haskell too, for example, has also proven to be a success for end-user applications (gtk+ bindings exist). I think prolog is just a breeze to program in, and I would love to push it further! Specifically, by implementing GTK+ bindings for this language myself, as a Google Summer of Code project. Implementing all functions would probably be too much work for a 3-month project, but it could certainly deliver a basic subset, as a basis for myself and other developers to continue working on later. About myself: I'm a computer science student at the catholic university of leuven (Belgium). I should hopefully finish my studies in july 2009, and I'd love to have some practical experience before then. My study program heavily specialises in artificial intelligence techniques, so I come into contact with the prolog language quite a lot. I have loved the language since I learned it, but I think it's a real shame that it never got the attention on the desktop that for example haskell has gotten. Hence my proposal! I chose GTK+ for this project because that's the toolkit I use on my computer every day, and I won't have it any other way. Despite this, I'm unfamiliar with the internals of GTK+. This is of course a problem that can be easily overcome. I would love to send in this idea as a GSoC project, but not before contacting this mailing-list. Do any other people think this would be a good idea, and is anyone maybe willing to mentor this? Thanks for reading everyone, Ben Torfs ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: GSoC proposal: gtk+ bindings for prolog
Jean-Yves Lefort wrote: On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:52:09 +0200 Ben Torfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a fan of both the prolog programming language and the GTK+ toolkit (as a user), I was wondering why the GTK page makes no mention of any prolog bindings. For those of you that are unfamiliar: prolog is a declarative language (like haskell, but very different in the way it works). Until now, it has mostly been used as a research tool in artificial intelligence (theorem proving, knowledge representation, etc.) However, I believe it has a lot of potential to be used for desktop applications too. Haskell too, for example, has also proven to be a success for end-user applications (gtk+ bindings exist). I think prolog is just a breeze to program in, and I would love to push it further! Specifically, by implementing GTK+ bindings for this language myself, as a Google Summer of Code project. Implementing all functions would probably be too much work for a 3-month project, but it could certainly deliver a basic subset, as a basis for myself and other developers to continue working on later. It should take much less than 3 months. I've implemented exhaustive GTK+ bindings for a language I'm designing in a couple of days. Then your bindings most likely really really suck. The internal API representation suitable for use by a generator program can be automatically obtained: - for types and methods, by parsing the C headers You'll get incomplete information which is far from enough. - for properties and signals, by using GLib introspection mechanisms such as g_object_class_list_properties() Regarding the usefulness: I would say that for general-purpose programming, Prolog is useless, and so would be your bindings. I bet it would be no less useful than the language you are designing. Yevgen ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: GSoC proposal: gtk+ bindings for prolog
Yevgen Muntyan wrote: On Apr 1, 2008, at 12:39 , Yevgen Muntyan wrote: Hi Ben, I am not CC'ing gtk-devel-list because 1) it's off-topic, 2) it won't do any good. gtk-devel-list is a list for discussing development of Gtk itself, not anything related to Gtk. Sorry about this, hit the wrong button. Oh well. I doubt your idea is good for Gnome SoC because of the following (I am a former SoC participant, so I've been around this a little). Gnome SoC ideas must be shiny. They need not be useful but they must look and sound great, This probably sounds harsh, so I must note that the reason is Google, not Gnome people who like shiny stuff or something. Being shiny is one of the Google requirements for a SoC project. This is by no means true. Google only decides what organisations take part in the project, decisions on individual projects are up to the mentors and organisation. Ben, please see the GNOME GSoC student information [1] for how to sumbit a proposal. You have until the 7th to submit. Thanks, Rob [1] http://live.gnome.org/SummerOfCode2008/Students Best regards, Yevgen ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: GSoC proposal: gtk+ bindings for prolog
On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:32:02 -0500 Yevgen Muntyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jean-Yves Lefort wrote: On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:52:09 +0200 Ben Torfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a fan of both the prolog programming language and the GTK+ toolkit (as a user), I was wondering why the GTK page makes no mention of any prolog bindings. For those of you that are unfamiliar: prolog is a declarative language (like haskell, but very different in the way it works). Until now, it has mostly been used as a research tool in artificial intelligence (theorem proving, knowledge representation, etc.) However, I believe it has a lot of potential to be used for desktop applications too. Haskell too, for example, has also proven to be a success for end-user applications (gtk+ bindings exist). I think prolog is just a breeze to program in, and I would love to push it further! Specifically, by implementing GTK+ bindings for this language myself, as a Google Summer of Code project. Implementing all functions would probably be too much work for a 3-month project, but it could certainly deliver a basic subset, as a basis for myself and other developers to continue working on later. It should take much less than 3 months. I've implemented exhaustive GTK+ bindings for a language I'm designing in a couple of days. Then your bindings most likely really really suck. Ignorance or provocation? Whichever. The internal API representation suitable for use by a generator program can be automatically obtained: - for types and methods, by parsing the C headers You'll get incomplete information which is far from enough. The information is mostly complete. The generator can automatically handle methods which involve fundamental types (gboolean, gint, ...), GLib enum and flags types, and GObject-derived types. Such methods represent a vast majority of the GTK+ API. For other methods, it emits a warning, for instance ignoring method gtk_list_store_append(): unhandled parameter type GtkTreeIter*. I then manually add the needed information to a configuration file. By the way, in case some GTK+ developer is reading: it would have been nice if GLib/GTK+ had offered a way to obtain type and method information without having to hack up a .h parser, eg: GType *gtk_get_types (int *num_types); GMethodInfo *g_type_get_methods (GType type, int *num_methods); It seems like a natural continuation of the reflection facilities already present in GLib. -- Jean-Yves Lefort [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpNsRM7K0z8O.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
GSoC proposal: gtk+ bindings for prolog
Hello, developers! As a fan of both the prolog programming language and the GTK+ toolkit (as a user), I was wondering why the GTK page makes no mention of any prolog bindings. For those of you that are unfamiliar: prolog is a declarative language (like haskell, but very different in the way it works). Until now, it has mostly been used as a research tool in artificial intelligence (theorem proving, knowledge representation, etc.) However, I believe it has a lot of potential to be used for desktop applications too. Haskell too, for example, has also proven to be a success for end-user applications (gtk+ bindings exist). I think prolog is just a breeze to program in, and I would love to push it further! Specifically, by implementing GTK+ bindings for this language myself, as a Google Summer of Code project. Implementing all functions would probably be too much work for a 3-month project, but it could certainly deliver a basic subset, as a basis for myself and other developers to continue working on later. About myself: I'm a computer science student at the catholic university of leuven (Belgium). I should hopefully finish my studies in july 2009, and I'd love to have some practical experience before then. My study program heavily specialises in artificial intelligence techniques, so I come into contact with the prolog language quite a lot. I have loved the language since I learned it, but I think it's a real shame that it never got the attention on the desktop that for example haskell has gotten. Hence my proposal! I chose GTK+ for this project because that's the toolkit I use on my computer every day, and I won't have it any other way. Despite this, I'm unfamiliar with the internals of GTK+. This is of course a problem that can be easily overcome. I would love to send in this idea as a GSoC project, but not before contacting this mailing-list. Do any other people think this would be a good idea, and is anyone maybe willing to mentor this? Thanks for reading everyone, Ben Torfs ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
