Re: Native file chooser dialog on Windows
Maybe it would be a good idea to fix glib to return the file type together with the directory name in a function g_read_dir(dir)? The info you need is all there and discarded inside glib... Just a thought. Eddie Morten Welinder wrote: and "confusing gradual display of network locations" (the first time I tried opening something from my fileserver I thought some of my directories went missing I think this could actually be improved fairly easily for all platforms if something (the chooser or backend, not sure) was more careful of the order it stats stuff. From the name of entries, it should be possible to come up with a fairly good guess of what to stat first. We want directories before files and things alphabetically within those groups, except that dot files should be last if they're not going to be displayed. That makes it a problem of guessing what is likely to be a directory. I'd try looking for an extension which would typically indicate something that isn't a directory. Morten ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list -- ___brainaid_ Christian "Eddie" Dost Rue de la Chapelle 51 phone +32 87 788817 B-4850 Moresnetfax +32 87 788818 e...@brainaid.de Belgiumcell +49 172 9312808 ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: Native file chooser dialog on Windows
On Sun, 17 May 2009 12:04:47 -0400, Morten Welinder wrote: > From the name of entries, it should be possible to come > up with a fairly good guess of what to stat first. We want > directories before files and things alphabetically within > those groups, except that dot files should be last if they're > not going to be displayed. That makes it a problem of > guessing what is likely to be a directory. I'd try looking > for an extension which would typically indicate something > that isn't a directory. Just for comparision: there's 231 directories (and 4 files, but they aren't pictures - I was testing with GIMP) in the directory on network drive I tried opening, and the Windows native chooser took 3 seconds to display the entire list. GTK+'s chooser displayed about a tenth of the list after about 10 seconds, and then further tenth every 10 seconds. I also couldn't get autocomplete to work at all in the GTK+ file chooser there, while it was available immediately in the Windows filechooser (I wonder how hard would it be to actually use the Windows' built-in autocomplete in GTK+ - to use it with Windows native controls, you just need to call SHAutoComplete and pass the handle of the control). -- < Jernej Simončič ><><><><>< http://eternallybored.org/ > ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: Native file chooser dialog on Windows
> and "confusing > gradual display of network locations" (the first time I tried opening > something from my fileserver I thought some of my directories went missing I think this could actually be improved fairly easily for all platforms if something (the chooser or backend, not sure) was more careful of the order it stats stuff. >From the name of entries, it should be possible to come up with a fairly good guess of what to stat first. We want directories before files and things alphabetically within those groups, except that dot files should be last if they're not going to be displayed. That makes it a problem of guessing what is likely to be a directory. I'd try looking for an extension which would typically indicate something that isn't a directory. Morten ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: Native file chooser dialog on Windows
Hi, On Fri, 2009-05-15 at 22:28 +0200, Jernej Simončič wrote: > For the values of nicer that match "much slower", "worse autocomplete > behaviour than the native dialog", "less useful Places list" and "confusing > gradual display of network locations" (the first time I tried opening > something from my fileserver I thought some of my directories went missing > because the GTK+ dialog displayed about a tenth of all folders at first, > and then very slowly added the rest in about 15-second intervals; That sounds like a severe performance problem of GIO on the Win32 platform. Have you reported this as a bug? Can you assist in getting this fixed? Sven ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: Native file chooser dialog on Windows
Am Fri, 15 May 2009 22:28:01 +0200 schrieb Jernej Simončič : > On Fri, 15 May 2009 14:33:12 -0400 (EDT), Allin Cottrell wrote: > > > IMO this is now pretty much of a non-issue, since the current GTK > > file selection dialog is sufficiently like Windows (but nicer!). > > For the values of nicer that match "much slower", "worse autocomplete > behaviour than the native dialog", "less useful Places list" and > "confusing gradual display of network locations" (the first time I > tried opening something from my fileserver I thought some of my > directories went missing because the GTK+ dialog displayed about a > tenth of all folders at first, and then very slowly added the rest in > about 15-second intervals; there's also the weird behaviour when you > type a directory name, press Enter, see the Open button depress and > jump out again - and then nothing happens, because the dialog expects > a \ at the end to actually change to that directory). As unfortunate as it is, this is not a sole Win32 problem. The file chooser has started to host numerous issues and regressions some time ago. All Gtk platforms would benefit from improvements. That said, I personally hate seeing any non-Gtk file chooser on my linux machines, be it tk, qt, wine or even peculiar Gtk applications. And I know mac users who feel accordingly regarding gtk apps on their mac. Based on that assumption, I would think native file choosers on foreign systems would be very attractive. Just my 2 pfennig, Christian ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: Native file chooser dialog on Windows
On Fri, 15 May 2009 13:29:01 -0700, Brian J. Tarricone wrote: > (Does the chooser look the same on all versions of Windows if you ignore > theming? Win2k? WinXP? Vista? Windows 7?) Vista introduced new open/save dialog boxes, and changed minor details in the classic dialogs as well (only programs specifically written to do so will use the new dialogs on Vista). -- < Jernej Simončič ><><><><>< http://eternallybored.org/ > ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: Native file chooser dialog on Windows
Cody Russell wrote: On Fri, 2009-05-15 at 13:51 -0400, David Cantin wrote: I don't known about this, but from an usability point of view, using native dialog should help applications users because they can use skills they have learned while they were using others applications.. Those details are always sensibles when using a foreign gui toolkit. I will look into what Tim Evans have said. If you implement a dialog using gtk+ widgets that is laid out like the native dialog, has the same accelerators, etc.. then users can take advantage of these skills as you describe and we can use features of gtk and it will look absolutely natural in the application. The problem with this is in the details, and getting them right for various versions of Windows. If we continue to use the standard gtk file chooser widget, it looks quite a bit different, but at least it's *supposed* to be different. If you create a look-alike dialog, and it's not *perfect*, people will get thrown off. Maybe the autocomplete behavior of the entry box doesn't work *exactly* the same. Maybe one of the accelerators is wrong. Maybe the icon positioning is slightly different. Maybe the dropdown list at the top works differently. There are plenty of other examples, and they all serve to be small jarring differences that possibly end up confusing the user more than having a totally different file chooser. Having said that... creating even a close-but-not-perfect copy of the Windows file chooser still sounds like a pretty attractive option. (Does the chooser look the same on all versions of Windows if you ignore theming? Win2k? WinXP? Vista? Windows 7?) This is also an issue on MacOS X... Mac users are even more crazy about all applications fitting into the (not really standard) standard platform look and feel than Windows users are. -brian ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: Native file chooser dialog on Windows
On Fri, 15 May 2009 14:33:12 -0400 (EDT), Allin Cottrell wrote: > IMO this is now pretty much of a non-issue, since the current GTK > file selection dialog is sufficiently like Windows (but nicer!). For the values of nicer that match "much slower", "worse autocomplete behaviour than the native dialog", "less useful Places list" and "confusing gradual display of network locations" (the first time I tried opening something from my fileserver I thought some of my directories went missing because the GTK+ dialog displayed about a tenth of all folders at first, and then very slowly added the rest in about 15-second intervals; there's also the weird behaviour when you type a directory name, press Enter, see the Open button depress and jump out again - and then nothing happens, because the dialog expects a \ at the end to actually change to that directory). -- < Jernej Simončič ><><><><>< http://eternallybored.org/ > ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: Native file chooser dialog on Windows
On Fri, 15 May 2009, Cody Russell wrote: > On Thu, 2009-05-14 at 22:46 -0400, David Cantin wrote: > > is there a plan or any activities regarding using the native file > > chooser on the Windows platform ? Like the print dialog does. > > My feeling is that for such dialogs we should perhaps implement a dialog > that looks like the native one (widget/layout-wise), but using gtk+ > widgets rather than using the actual native Win32 dialog... IMO this is now pretty much of a non-issue, since the current GTK file selection dialog is sufficiently like Windows (but nicer!). The old GTK file selector was very foreign to Windows users, and in the win32 version of my GTK app I used the native win32 selector. But I recently decided to scrap that code as redundant. Consistency with the "host" desktop is good in itself, but consistency of look and feel within the application is also desirable, and switching from GTK to native Windows widgets can be jarring. Allin Cottrell ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: Native file chooser dialog on Windows
On Fri, 2009-05-15 at 13:51 -0400, David Cantin wrote: > I don't known about this, but from an usability point of view, using > native dialog should help applications users because they can use > skills they have learned while they were using others applications.. > > Those details are always sensibles when using a foreign gui toolkit. > > I will look into what Tim Evans have said. If you implement a dialog using gtk+ widgets that is laid out like the native dialog, has the same accelerators, etc.. then users can take advantage of these skills as you describe and we can use features of gtk and it will look absolutely natural in the application. Unless there are major technical reasons why it's not possible (as it sounds like it was with the print dialog--unfortunate, but makes sense), I think using gtk+ widgets and dialogs instead of native ones is preferable. If the existing gtk dialog is really out of place on Win32, I would prefer a new dialog implemented (with gtk+ widgets) for that platform over invoking the native dialog. That's still not a very ideal solution though, since it means there are two file selection dialogs in gtk+ tree to maintain. But the user experience can be emulated very well already, so I think degrading the developer's experience for zero real user experience advantage is something to be avoided as much as possible. / Cody ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: Native file chooser dialog on Windows
I don't known about this, but from an usability point of view, using native dialog should help applications users because they can use skills they have learned while they were using others applications.. Those details are always sensibles when using a foreign gui toolkit. I will look into what Tim Evans have said. David 2009/5/15 Matthias Clasen > > On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 1:25 PM, Cody Russell wrote: > > On Thu, 2009-05-14 at 22:46 -0400, David Cantin wrote: > >> is there a plan or any activities regarding using the native file > >> chooser on the Windows platform ? Like the print dialog does. > > > > My feeling is that for such dialogs we should perhaps implement a dialog > > that looks like the native one (widget/layout-wise), but using gtk+ > > widgets rather than using the actual native Win32 dialog. I also > > thought this should be done for the print dialog, and stop using the > > native one because it sucks. > > I believe the main (or only ?) reason we are using the native print > dialog is that the win32 print api didn't really have all we needed to > implement our own. That is what I recall from when Alex did this work, > at least... > > Matthias ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: Native file chooser dialog on Windows
On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 1:25 PM, Cody Russell wrote: > On Thu, 2009-05-14 at 22:46 -0400, David Cantin wrote: >> is there a plan or any activities regarding using the native file >> chooser on the Windows platform ? Like the print dialog does. > > My feeling is that for such dialogs we should perhaps implement a dialog > that looks like the native one (widget/layout-wise), but using gtk+ > widgets rather than using the actual native Win32 dialog. I also > thought this should be done for the print dialog, and stop using the > native one because it sucks. I believe the main (or only ?) reason we are using the native print dialog is that the win32 print api didn't really have all we needed to implement our own. That is what I recall from when Alex did this work, at least... Matthias ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: Native file chooser dialog on Windows
On Thu, 2009-05-14 at 22:46 -0400, David Cantin wrote: > is there a plan or any activities regarding using the native file > chooser on the Windows platform ? Like the print dialog does. My feeling is that for such dialogs we should perhaps implement a dialog that looks like the native one (widget/layout-wise), but using gtk+ widgets rather than using the actual native Win32 dialog. I also thought this should be done for the print dialog, and stop using the native one because it sucks. However, I never got around to doing this either. Patches are always welcome (unless tml disagrees with me on this ;) / Cody ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: Native file chooser dialog on Windows
David Cantin wrote: Hi all, is there a plan or any activities regarding using the native file chooser on the Windows platform ? Like the print dialog does. There is already an opened bug about this : http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=319312 If you want to do it yourself, I've found that calling GetOpenFileName or GetSaveFileName in a different thread works fine. Just call g_idle_add to send the result back to the main thread when the win32 function finishes. This allows the win32 dialog to run without blocking expose events on your GTK+ windows. -- Tim Evans Applied Research Associates NZ http://www.aranz.com/ ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: Native file chooser dialog on Windows
On Thu, 2009-05-14 at 22:46 -0400, David Cantin wrote: > Hi all, > > is there a plan or any activities regarding using the native file > chooser on the Windows platform ? Like the print dialog does. > > There is already an opened bug about this : > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=319312 I think my comment #4 there says everything that needs to be said. Not sure why Tor hasn't WONTFIX'ed the bug already. - Owen ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Native file chooser dialog on Windows
Hi all, is there a plan or any activities regarding using the native file chooser on the Windows platform ? Like the print dialog does. There is already an opened bug about this : http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=319312 Regards, David ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
