Re: GTK+ 3, Win32 and GtkApplication (DBus woes)
On Mon, 2011-03-28 at 16:54 +0200, Kean Johnston wrote: Since I am new to this list I am unsure of the etiquette involved in discussing issues in integral underpinnings of GTK+ like Glib/Gio, and I know there's a fair amount of cross-pollination of developers, but if discussions of Glib/Gio issues, especially as related to GTK+ are unwelcome or unproductive here, I'll move my questions to the appropriate place, wherever that is. There is no separate devel list for glib or gio, it all happens here. For the GtkApplication part I just think someone will have to spend some time on the GtkApplication code making sure it has a win32 specific backend. Its a bit unfortunate that it landed before that was available, but thats is often how things work in Gtk+ due to the severe lack of manpower on the win32 side. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander LarssonRed Hat, Inc al...@redhat.comalexander.lars...@gmail.com He's a lounge-singing skateboarding cop from the Mississippi delta. She's a disco-crazy blonde fairy princess with an incredible destiny. They fight crime! ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: GTK+ 3, Win32 and GtkApplication (DBus woes)
There is no separate devel list for glib or gio, it all happens here. Thanks for the info. I have some ideas I need to mull around for a bit that I'll post about in the near future. For the GtkApplication part I just think someone will have to spend some time on the GtkApplication code making sure it has a win32 specific backend. Its a bit unfortunate that it landed before that was available, but thats is often how things work in Gtk+ due to the severe lack of manpower on the win32 side. You can add me to that short list. I have 25+ years UNIX development experience and I'm intimately familiar with the entire GNU toolchain and all the autoconf nonsense, and I'm fairly adept at win32 as well so it puts me in a good position to help. I tend to avoid contributing to [L]GPL projects as much as possible but I do make exceptions and I am happy to make one in this case, if for no other reason than that I have a vested interest in seeing things work (which, after cold hard cash, is one of the best motivators :)). That and the fact that GTK+ is really very cool and fun and well written. Kean ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: GTK+ 3, Win32 and GtkApplication (DBus woes)
On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:35 AM, Kean Johnston kean.johns...@gmail.com wrote: Hello everyone, GtkApplication is a rather new piece of the GTK API. There has been quite a bit of discussion about its role and its impact on cross platform portability. The answer for now is that if you want cross platform portability, simply don't use GtkApplication. It didn't exist several months ago, and there are plenty of excellent apps written with GTK that don't use it. --p ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: GTK+ 3, Win32 and GtkApplication (DBus woes)
On 3/28/2011 1:12 PM, Paul Davis wrote: On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:35 AM, Kean Johnstonkean.johns...@gmail.com wrote: Hello everyone, GtkApplication is a rather new piece of the GTK API. There has been quite a bit of discussion about its role and its impact on cross platform portability. I'll try read more of the mailing list archive. I have a vested interest in Gtk+ 3 on Win32 and MacOS, so if ever any help is needed or wanted testing any changes, I am very happy to help. The answer for now is that if you want cross platform portability, simply don't use GtkApplication. It didn't exist several months ago, and there are plenty of excellent apps written with GTK that don't use it. In one particular case, namely using the current beta of Glade, I was able to get it to at least start working by extracting a previous version of main.c from git. Fortunately, the change the author made to use GtkApplication was in a single commit so it was easy to unwind. My only concern about simply don't use it is that it seems (to me at least) as if newcomers are encouraged that way, and it currently isn't portable, as you stated. Considering what a long history Gtk+ has of being very portable, from the outside looking in it's a bit concerning that it even made it into the mainline in its current state considering its portability impact. I guess because the primary use platform is Linux it is very easy to loose sight of the fact that it is used elsewhere, since the vast majority of users will remain ignorantly happy. People are very obviously aware of this impact, I'm just adding my voice to the mix keeping portability a primary, rather than secondary concern. Thank you for your prompt reply. Kean ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: GTK+ 3, Win32 and GtkApplication (DBus woes)
On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 7:26 AM, Kean Johnston kean.johns...@gmail.com wrote: Considering what a long history Gtk+ has of being very portable, I would say that this is a subtle mis-perception. GTK's support for non *nix, non-X11 platforms has happened generally inspite of, rather than because of any central portability goal. Its been implemented by very small numbers of dedicated individuals for each platform, and is frequently broken for relatively short periods of time as the internals of GTK change. It is true that GTK is becoming *more* portable as a result of the design changes we've seen in the last 2 years, and that this will continue. Its also at least as portable as anything else with its power and flexibility. But for some reason, its quite easy to get the idea that GTK was actually designed as a cross-platform toolkit, which is manifestly not true. Luckily, we've had people like Tor on the windows side and an assorted bunch of people for os x that have done the work of making it work on other platforms *anyway*. But even with such heroic efforts, there continue to be things that are not quite the way they should be on non-X11 platforms, and depending on what your app does, these may be completely ignorable or showstoppers. --p ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: GTK+ 3, Win32 and GtkApplication (DBus woes)
On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Kean Johnston kean.johns...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/28/2011 1:12 PM, Paul Davis wrote: On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:35 AM, Kean Johnstonkean.johns...@gmail.com wrote: Hello everyone, GtkApplication is a rather new piece of the GTK API. There has been quite a bit of discussion about its role and its impact on cross platform portability. I'll try read more of the mailing list archive. I have a vested interest in Gtk+ 3 on Win32 and MacOS, so if ever any help is needed or wanted testing any changes, I am very happy to help. The answer for now is that if you want cross platform portability, simply don't use GtkApplication. It didn't exist several months ago, and there are plenty of excellent apps written with GTK that don't use it. In one particular case, namely using the current beta of Glade, I was able to get it to at least start working by extracting a previous version of main.c from git. Fortunately, the change the author made to use GtkApplication was in a single commit so it was easy to unwind. Yes I'm sorry about that. I innocently assumed it would be properly portable as everything in GTK+ is portable, and there was no proper notation that the application object was not available on win32 or osx (like say, GtkUnixPrint widgets). Anyway, I'll be backing out that commit from Glade. Cheers, -Tristan ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: GTK+ 3, Win32 and GtkApplication (DBus woes)
Yes I'm sorry about that. I innocently assumed it would be properly portable as everything in GTK+ is portable, and there was no proper notation that the application object was not available on win32 or osx (like say, GtkUnixPrint widgets). For the most part it seems that GTK+'s portability holds true. The trouble is in layers beneath it, in this case Gio. I just came across another example of strangeness in Gio on Win32. On Windows it is much rarer to have things installed in a central location available to everyone to use, many applications will ship their own versions of the DLL's in their own private directories. This makes reliance on central-installed, compiled files like compiled schemas in Gio a problem on Windows. Other underpinning layers like Pango can have the same problem if not compiled properly. For example, you *can* compile it to dynamically load in modules and that works really well on Linux but less well on Win32, where the modules tend to be built in. Since I am new to this list I am unsure of the etiquette involved in discussing issues in integral underpinnings of GTK+ like Glib/Gio, and I know there's a fair amount of cross-pollination of developers, but if discussions of Glib/Gio issues, especially as related to GTK+ are unwelcome or unproductive here, I'll move my questions to the appropriate place, wherever that is. Kean PS thank you very much for Glade :) I have some patches for you to get it to compile with MSVC that I'll be sending you shortly. ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
