Re: Why are people sticking with GTK+ 26.? (Re: GTK+ modularization)
Hello Carl & al, > I'm personally interested in hearing more details about what your > motivation for sticking with 2.6 is. If it's performance concerns, (as > is the case with others I've talked to), then I should point out that > I'm personally very interested, and planning on fixing those > performance problems. > > There's no good reason that GTK+ should have ever gotten slower. So > I'll be working to fix performance regressions. But I need help > identifying them. So anything anyone can share about things they have > hit would be useful. (And thanks to those who have already started > identifying things here on this list.) It looks like cairo is very slow when rendering text on X displays which do not support the RENDER extension. Most Solaris X servers around today, for instance, fall in this category, and our applications are simply unusable with Gtk+-2.8, whereas they used to run smoothly with Gtk+-2.6. Would it help if we assemble a testcase showing this? Nicolas ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: Why are people sticking with GTK+ 26.? (Re: GTK+ modularization)
Hello Carl & al, > I'm personally interested in hearing more details about what your > motivation for sticking with 2.6 is. If it's performance concerns, (as > is the case with others I've talked to), then I should point out that > I'm personally very interested, and planning on fixing those > performance problems. > > There's no good reason that GTK+ should have ever gotten slower. So > I'll be working to fix performance regressions. But I need help > identifying them. So anything anyone can share about things they have > hit would be useful. (And thanks to those who have already started > identifying things here on this list.) > It looks like cairo is very slow when rendering text on X displays which do not support the RENDER extension. Most Solaris X servers around today, for instance, fall in this category, and our applications are simply unusable with Gtk+-2.8, whereas they used to run smoothly with Gtk+-2.6. Would it help if we assemble a testcase showing this? Nicolas ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: Why are people sticking with GTK+ 26.? (Re: GTK+ modularization)
Hi, > One thing you might want to look into is changing the usage of doubles. > They are used all over the place and they are way overkill. On small > platforms like ours this is particularly painful because of floating > point emulation. Any new descissions ... may there be changes driven by the cairo performance work anounced some days ago? Thanks, lg Clemens ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Fwd: Why are people sticking with GTK+ 26.? (Re: GTK+ modularization)
Carl, there 's at least one : Pango is using Cairo, cairo is a double based vector graphics engine... Pango became slower since it is using it. On embedded platform the cost for calculations with double is really heavy. Embedded computing does not benefit from the pseudo empiric "intel moore law" at the same pace than desktop computing. Would be nice if Cairo could exist in an embedded version with fixed point calculations. The embedded version of Open GL is using fixed point calculations so why not Cairo ? - Paul. On Jul 20, 2006, at 2:09 AM, Carl Worth wrote: > On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:58:41 -0700, "Jesse Donaldson" wrote: >> We're still using v2.6, so folks may not >> care, >> but I'm happy to share our results (once we've obtained them). >> Also, if >> he'd like, I can try to put Mathias in touch with whoever will be >> looking at this on our end. > > I'm personally interested in hearing more details about what your > motivation for sticking with 2.6 is. If it's performance concerns, (as > is the case with others I've talked to), then I should point out that > I'm personally very interested, and planning on fixing those > performance problems. > > There's no good reason that GTK+ should have ever gotten slower. So > I'll be working to fix performance regressions. But I need help > identifying them. So anything anyone can share about things they have > hit would be useful. (And thanks to those who have already started > identifying things here on this list.) > > -Carl > -- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ___ > gtk-devel-list mailing list > gtk-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: Why are people sticking with GTK+ 26.? (Re: GTK+ modularization)
On 20.07.2006 02:09, Carl Worth wrote: > I'm personally interested in hearing more details about what your > motivation for sticking with 2.6 is. If it's performance concerns, (as > is the case with others I've talked to), then I should point out that > I'm personally very interested, and planning on fixing those > performance problems. > There are two platforms where currently only 2.6 is available. First there is Maemo for the N770 discussed elsewhere. The second one is win9x. Although mostly obsolete the use of gtk+ there was finally broken by the cairo dependency, i.e. >= gtk+2.6.x. I wouldn't call this stick to Gtk+ 2.6 but just leaving the backdoor open ;) Another thing stopping full adoption of cairo is the apparent lack of interest in better win32 support. At least for me it seems to be very difficult to get patches accepted, which deal with pure win32 stuff. See http://hans.breuer.org/gtk/cairo.html for some examples. The recent switch to a very Linux orientated version control system does not help either. And finally although the current feature set is nice and moving in the right direction it is still not competitive to what's possible with regard of (win32 native) print support for years. See http://hans.breuer.org/dia/dia-cairo.htm Regards, Hans Hans "at" Breuer "dot" Org --- Tell me what you need, and I'll tell you how to get along without it.-- Dilbert ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
RE: Why are people sticking with GTK+ 26.? (Re: GTK+ modularization)
Yup, it was almost entirely performance concerns. Many of us at PalmSource were pushing hard for 2.8 (2.10 wasn't finished yet), but it was the performance tests that decided it. Personally, I very much want to make sure we can provide a compelling mobile applications platform, and so want to keep up with the latest stable release as much as possible. But we expect performance to be an issue for us even on 2.6, and we need to build a compelling product before we stand a chance of providing a compelling apps platform. :-) I will do a little digging internally and see if I can find more detailed results of our performance investigation which I can share with you. I can tell you that it was something of a high level comparison (i.e., we didn't try to use 2.8 and then encounter specific problems). Also, I seem to remember that the speed of text rendering was one concern. Jesse -Original Message- From: Carl Worth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 5:09 PM To: Jesse Donaldson Cc: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Why are people sticking with GTK+ 26.? (Re: GTK+ modularization) On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:58:41 -0700, "Jesse Donaldson" wrote: > We're still using v2.6, so folks may not care, > but I'm happy to share our results (once we've obtained them). Also, > if he'd like, I can try to put Mathias in touch with whoever will be > looking at this on our end. I'm personally interested in hearing more details about what your motivation for sticking with 2.6 is. If it's performance concerns, (as is the case with others I've talked to), then I should point out that I'm personally very interested, and planning on fixing those performance problems. There's no good reason that GTK+ should have ever gotten slower. So I'll be working to fix performance regressions. But I need help identifying them. So anything anyone can share about things they have hit would be useful. (And thanks to those who have already started identifying things here on this list.) -Carl -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
RE: Why are people sticking with GTK+ 26.? (Re: GTK+ modularization)
Hi Carl, I work for the same company as Jesse. Performance was indeed the reason. A lot of us wanted to use the latest and greatest but ARM CPUs are not what you call "swift". One thing you might want to look into is changing the usage of doubles. They are used all over the place and they are way overkill. On small platforms like ours this is particularly painful because of floating point emulation. --David. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carl Worth Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 5:09 PM To: Jesse Donaldson Cc: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Why are people sticking with GTK+ 26.? (Re: GTK+ modularization) On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:58:41 -0700, "Jesse Donaldson" wrote: > We're still using v2.6, so folks may not care, > but I'm happy to share our results (once we've obtained them). Also, if > he'd like, I can try to put Mathias in touch with whoever will be > looking at this on our end. I'm personally interested in hearing more details about what your motivation for sticking with 2.6 is. If it's performance concerns, (as is the case with others I've talked to), then I should point out that I'm personally very interested, and planning on fixing those performance problems. There's no good reason that GTK+ should have ever gotten slower. So I'll be working to fix performance regressions. But I need help identifying them. So anything anyone can share about things they have hit would be useful. (And thanks to those who have already started identifying things here on this list.) -Carl -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Why are people sticking with GTK+ 26.? (Re: GTK+ modularization)
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:58:41 -0700, "Jesse Donaldson" wrote: > We're still using v2.6, so folks may not care, > but I'm happy to share our results (once we've obtained them). Also, if > he'd like, I can try to put Mathias in touch with whoever will be > looking at this on our end. I'm personally interested in hearing more details about what your motivation for sticking with 2.6 is. If it's performance concerns, (as is the case with others I've talked to), then I should point out that I'm personally very interested, and planning on fixing those performance problems. There's no good reason that GTK+ should have ever gotten slower. So I'll be working to fix performance regressions. But I need help identifying them. So anything anyone can share about things they have hit would be useful. (And thanks to those who have already started identifying things here on this list.) -Carl -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpaYZjS9P4ho.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
