Re: notifications in gtk
On 11/06/2012 04:39 PM, Olav Vitters wrote: Would a Qt/KDE application be able to show notifications as well? Would this require freedesktop.org work, or is the intention to keep this limited to GNOME shell implementation? Also, what about Gnome/Gtk+-based applications on alternative desktop environments (XFCE, KDE) ? Would the client application also fall back to the existing dbus API ? Shouldn't the existing API be evolved to meed the current requirements instead of creating a new, private, API ? ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: notifications in gtk
On Tue, Nov 06, 2012 at 10:23:40AM -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
A new api
[..]
Portability considerations
- Most of the GtkNotification api can probably be implemented against
org.freedesktop.Notifications (except the fire-and-forget aspects),
and this is what I think we should start out with
- The api that we are presenting here is fairly similar to OS X'
NSNotification api, and should be easily implementable on top of it
- After looking for notification apis on windows, we are confident
that this api proposal is confident with the win8 notification
guidelines and api ('toast'...). It will not be a very good fit for
traditional icon+balloon messages.
Would a Qt/KDE application be able to show notifications as well? Would
this require freedesktop.org work, or is the intention to keep this
limited to GNOME shell implementation?
Wondering if you also looked at iOS and Android.
--
Regards,
Olav
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Re: notifications in gtk
On Tue, Nov 06, 2012 at 04:39:26PM +0100, Olav Vitters wrote: Wondering if you also looked at iOS and Android. Ignore this, you obviously did. -- Regards, Olav ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: notifications in gtk
On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 10:39 AM, Olav Vitters o...@vitters.nl wrote: Would a Qt/KDE application be able to show notifications as well? Would this require freedesktop.org work, or is the intention to keep this limited to GNOME shell implementation? I envision the server-side would continue to offer the org.freedesktop.Notifications interface for a long time - we can't just drop it... ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: notifications in gtk
On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 10:39 AM, Olav Vitters o...@vitters.nl wrote: Would a Qt/KDE application be able to show notifications as well? Would this require freedesktop.org work, or is the intention to keep this limited to GNOME shell implementation? I don't think this proposal wouldn't change the current state of things for Qt/KDE applications - the org.fdo.Notifications DBus protocol we use today would still be supported as a fallback. Cosimo ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: notifications in gtk
On Nov 6, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote: Problems with GtkStatusIcon - It is really centered around the idea that apps just export a small bit of their UI into the 'panel' - It assumes that all desktops want to offer a permanent place (system tray) for applications to present a clickable icon with a context menu - It requires the application to be running as long as its icon is present, essentially forcing a daemon mode onto applications (eg evolution-alarm-notify) - The X implementation uses XEmbed and can't really be made to work nicely in a composited environment - The win32 implementation is also problematic I would argue the OS X implementation is also problematic. Showing the icon in the OS X menu bar is quite easy, however, in response we currently typically pop up a GtkMenu. This gives interesting problems with grabs/event handling. Also, it looks quite out of place because native applications show a native menu. The current GtkStatusIcon makes it close to impossible to automatically convert a GtkMenu into a native menu (e.g. custom menu items) and there's also the case where the status icon pops up something that's not a menu. regards, -kris. ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: notifications in gtk
On Nov 6, 2012, at 8:01 AM, Kristian Rietveld k...@loopnest.org wrote: On Nov 6, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote: Problems with GtkStatusIcon - It is really centered around the idea that apps just export a small bit of their UI into the 'panel' - It assumes that all desktops want to offer a permanent place (system tray) for applications to present a clickable icon with a context menu - It requires the application to be running as long as its icon is present, essentially forcing a daemon mode onto applications (eg evolution-alarm-notify) - The X implementation uses XEmbed and can't really be made to work nicely in a composited environment - The win32 implementation is also problematic I would argue the OS X implementation is also problematic. Showing the icon in the OS X menu bar is quite easy, however, in response we currently typically pop up a GtkMenu. This gives interesting problems with grabs/event handling. Also, it looks quite out of place because native applications show a native menu. The current GtkStatusIcon makes it close to impossible to automatically convert a GtkMenu into a native menu (e.g. custom menu items) and there's also the case where the status icon pops up something that's not a menu. All very true. This *helps* Matthias's case to get rid of GtkStatusIcon. Another point in favor of Matthias's proposal is dbus-independence. Dbus is great on Linux, but is a poor fit for OSX, and Win32. Dunno about Android, but iOS is decidedly daemon-hostile, so dbus isn't likely to happen there. As an aside, has anyone ever gotten a Gtk-based program into the iTunes Store -- or the App Store, for that matter? Anyway, all-in-all this looks very good to me. Regards, John Ralls ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: notifications in gtk
On Tue, 2012-11-06 at 10:23 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote: It has been clear for a while that GTK+ should provide an api to support notifications, so that applications don't have to a separate library (libnotify) for such a minor detail. Since our apis should serve the application designs that are implemented with it, lets have a look at these designs (for GNOME) before getting into the details: Probably a naive question having not considered the implementation, but I'm not seeing anything GTK-specific in the proposed API. Is there any reason this couldn't be bolted onto GApplication instead? Matthew Barnes ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: notifications in gtk
A couple of comments: - Would system software (eg. battery notification) be using parts of this API, or would we need to come up with our own helpers on top of the D-Bus API? - gtk_application_get_notifications() doesn't mention that activated notifications will still be present if recurring. - For recurring notifications (say, alarms), we have no way of knowing for which GDateTime/GTimeSpan the display was for. - What are the application use cases? - Alarm? (wake me up at 7AM every weekday not at the week-end, and don't forget to amend for daylight saving changes; snooze) - Timer? (notify me in 10 minutes) - Music Player track notifications? (always visible, setting of the image after the notification was shown for cover art) - Meetings (every Tuesday at 2 PM, but only until the end of the year; every week until end of time, but not those 2 weeks I'm on holidays) - it's unclear to me how applications that do light processing from the network might behave when not running and an event occurs (weather application with notifications turned on for a storm for example), is that something we could use to extend GtkApplication with. iOS can go and poke at the network on behalf of applications for example. ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: notifications in gtk
On 12-11-06 07:23 AM, Matthias Clasen wrote: It has been clear for a while that GTK+ should provide an api to support notifications, so that applications don't have to a separate library (libnotify) for such a minor detail. Since our apis should serve the application designs that are implemented with it, lets have a look at these designs (for GNOME) before getting into the details: [snip] Let us know what you think about this. I hope it's not off-topic to give ideas/feedback in a usability sense here (as opposed to technical/API-wise). Speaking strictly as a user, I absolutely 100% despise notification bubbles/overlays/distractions of all manner (whether attached to a status icon or not). The balloons famous for annoying Windows XP users are a good example and the libnotify ones (or whatever XFCE uses) being another good example of how to completely tear the user's attention away from what they're focusing on for what is 99% of the time not attention worthy. Actually, one of my favourite things about OSX is that it does not have these annoying notifications (except when apps force them using 3rd party libraries that users have to disable). If OSX has something really important to tell you, it pops up a proper dialog box (ex. when the battery is almost depleted or updates need to be installed). So just a few suggestions with my user hat on: * There should be some HIGs describing when using them is a good idea (ex. low battery, hardware failure, etc.) to minimize the flagrant use of notifications that plagues Windows and Linux desktops (and oddball OSX apps) currently. * On win32 and (certain) Linux DEs it could use the flashing of the window in the taskbar (not sure what it's called, the thing with the app's icon and window title that shows in the panel that you can click to (de)iconify windows) which, while still super annoying, is far less annoying than bubbles. One example of this is Firefox's Downloads dialog when a download finishes.[note1] * On OSX it could use the feature where the app's icon in the dock does some little animated wiggling to let you know it needs your attention (which is again annoying as hell, but far less than popup overlays/bubbles). One example of this is Colloquy when someone pings you.[note1] * An alternative for all 3 operating systems would be to just animate an icon in the panel's notification area. An example of this is XChat when someone pings you. This is by far the least annoying of all others I've encountered.[note1] * It should be possible to globally disable all notifications entirely as opposed to simply per-application. * No matter what, it shouldn't use the clichéd semi-transparent black overlays/HUD/OSD that everyone is using lately :) Regular old dialog boxes (with or without window decorations) have the advantage here since they'll naturally fit in with the users theme. Just some ideas/feedback, feel free to ignore. Cheers, Matthew Brush [note1] Obviously these do require a running, non-daemonized application, but perhaps they could be used as a default where the application is a normal running GUI application and real GtkDialog boxes could be used for background-type applications. ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: notifications in gtk
On Wednesday, 7 November 2012 at 01:23, Matthew Brush wrote: Actually, one of my favourite things about OSX is that it does not have these annoying notifications (except when apps force them using 3rd party libraries that users have to disable). If OSX has something really important to tell you, it pops up a proper dialog box (ex. when the battery is almost depleted or updates need to be installed). Actually, Mountain Lion added the Notification Centre, which is essentially Growl plus a docked notification list. http://www.apple.com/osx/whats-new/ has screenshots if you've never seen this in action. Ross ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
